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Kanto: Perfect...not really.
- Thread starter Korobooshi Kojiro
- Start date
Musapion
Boulder Trainer
Mmhmm, definitely! Even though I loved the episodes the most, the Gyms were rushed, the animation was... sucky, even though I loved the animation STYLE and art. The art and animation also didn't look uniform enough and you could tell who was animating what at a glance. And they've definitely improved from then.
Seriously, the only Gym Leader that got it good was Sabrina with her three part story. And she wasn't even in the second one!
And Ash got his badges through sheer dumb luck and circumstance... and people are still ragging on the anime even though that hasn't happened since then!
I think Kanto's deserving of praise and it WAS the first, but man, I hate when people say all seasons/series after it were crap.
Also, hugely agreed with everything Gravy said.
Especially as I've just sat through the Wakana episode again. It was almost all focused on character relationships, imagine that!
Seriously, the only Gym Leader that got it good was Sabrina with her three part story. And she wasn't even in the second one!
And Ash got his badges through sheer dumb luck and circumstance... and people are still ragging on the anime even though that hasn't happened since then!
I think Kanto's deserving of praise and it WAS the first, but man, I hate when people say all seasons/series after it were crap.
Also, hugely agreed with everything Gravy said.
Especially as I've just sat through the Wakana episode again. It was almost all focused on character relationships, imagine that!
Yamato-san
I own the 5th gen
and this makes Kantou better how? IMO, Jukain's the best Pokemon Satoshi's ever had (in terms of a powerhouse AND in terms of characterization), and he pwns Satoshi's entire Kantou team easily.
the problem is that 1) it can be a tad too convenient (its most notorious case is arguably during the Whirl Cup. Aside from popping out of her ball in the first place, something I don't think it did in a while, the writers suddenly make Satoshi forget about its ability and make Kingler target its head). 2) Not ONCE has it ever lost a battle after awakening its abilities. Logically, a Koduck being able to use psychic abilities should just be a minimum requirement for it to be a capable fighter (and while it may not've been the same in the 151 generation, it's been shown time and time again that psychics aren't invincible). However, considering it's barely able to use its powers most of the time, I'd give it a benefit of a doubt that it gets overpowered just a little. But even so, there should be SEVERAL more Pokemon stronger than that... honestly, can you see Koduck, with powers awakened, defeating a higher tier psychic like Foodin so easily? How about a legendary? See, the anime should've emphasized that even when awakened, Koduck is anything but invincible, but sadly, they didn't.
Hell, if anything, they probably should've had Satoshi target his head in the Whirl Cup because he wanted the challenge (much like he willingly chose Freezer as his Battle Factory opponent), and from there, have Kingler put up a decent fight against it instead of getting pwned like it did. It doesn't matter if Satoshi still lost or not, if powered-up Koduck could be shown to take a bit of damage on its part, there'd be a lot less talk of it being a cheapass.
I liked Magii, but... he was by no means deserving of sympathy after the crap he pulled. What sickens me is that the episode continued to portray the guy in a positive (or at least neutral) light, with absolutely no mention of potential remorse he may've felt for brainwashing the boy who tried to help him and getting power-hungry with an army of Nasshii. Instead, the rest of the episode focused on the typical "OH NOEZ!!! Teh town's in danger!" crap. The only mistake Magii feels he made was letting the Nasshii get out of control, which really makes him look like quite the self-centered jackass. As such, I by no means consider that episode "dramatic" or even "well-written".
but back in Kantou, what was the f***ing point of rushing? Honestly, did we need an episode about Taichi and his uber Eievui? And how about all that filler crap when Satoshi was "training" for the Sekiei Tournament? Even within the gym episodes themselves, they could've done without some things.
-Rocket Dan really needed to take a backseat during the Hanada Gym, Tokiwa Gym (I'm sure several agree that the final gym becoming just another Rocket battle, only with Sakaki's Pokemon thrown into the mix, ended up pretty abysmal), the Sekiei Tournament (the fact that it ended with a cut-and-paste Gary Stu of a clone beating Satoshi before he had the chance to participate in a 6-on-6 battle didn't help matters... why must more interesting opponents like Korm, Kaoru, Kaede, Hyuuga, Jump, etc. continually fall short of these pathetic excuses for characters?), as well as the Tamamushi Gym (I agree with what someone else said earlier. Though "Satoko" was pretty memorable, focusing on how Erika and her followers are a bunch of pompous b*tches who can't do their job at the gym like they're supposed sounds like it probably would've played out a helluva lot better than Satoshi merely rescuing Kusaihana). What's sad is that they didn't even provide much comic relief in those episodes (further reasoning why the Kuchiba Gym was so great. Rocket Dan was hardly there, but they still had some nice moments).
-What was the f***ing point of Aya? Honestly, it's like they turned a gym episode into any other filler episode with a throwaway one-shot character... a filler involving ninja (which was probably a first for the series at the time), but still. What's really annoying is that said throwaway character manages to take away all focus from the gym leader himself (and yet, they let her reappear in Jouto instead of some more deserving characters, like Anzu -_-).
-Some might say that the Sekiei Tournament had more focus on characterization than the other tournaments, thus we saw less of the battles. So, basically, we needed another one of Rocket Dan's attempts to kidnap Pikachu cut into Satoshi's battle on the ice field? Right... Further reasoning this was flawed is Masamune. Sans a rushed battle against Satoshi in the end, he was handled very nicely in the Saiyuu Tournament, even with Saiyuu's greater focus on battles (given, he was established shortly before the tournament, but again, I ask why they had to make Satoshi do nothing but screw around for about 10 filler episodes?). Tetsuya's Nyaasu also got some pretty friggin' nice characterization, both in and out of battle (Yuriko's Persian).
Korobooshi Kojiro
Funnnngaaaaa
I still find Kingler's three KO's in the Indigo League to be pretty cheap...
But, he never actually does anything else worthwhile so I don't care as much.
I remember that it was rubbish!
Korobooshi Kojiro
Funnnngaaaaa
Like I said, the dude was made Psyduck's b**** and was killed in the Silver Conference just so Squirtle could win again.
So it's not so bad.
So it's not so bad.
Maestro Kinético
Well-Known Member
Quality wise, D/P is empty. It doesn't have anything inside of all that 'pretty colours' animation. Like nowadays movies, the image and the FX are good but the plot...
Korobooshi Kojiro
Funnnngaaaaa
The plot is just as good.
S.Suikun
Thank you, SPPf! :)
We aren't saying it's not a memorable episode, as many of the most enjoyable episodes of the series are the ones that are completely wacky and devoid of anything serious at all. But calling that episode "dramatic" in any way is like calling The Shining a comedy.
Just the whole rehash-of-Haruka thing. The one contest we did have so far was good, no doubt about that, but as we've gone over time and again (even though most people have gotten over it, even Cybercubed), she has done next to nothing to differentiate herself from Haruka.
I'm going to actually defend Kanto in this instance, because this just isn't right. In the days of cel animation, the animators didn't take lazy shortcuts through rushed facial expressions, off-model characters, etc. The digital animation age of Pocket Monsters was decent enough when it first started, but over time, the work deteriorated in quality as they hired crappier and crappier animation directors. Sure, there are a few animators on-board now that surpass anything done in the cel animation age, but on the whole, the work is inferior nowadays.
And even then, it's not like she really got a good battle or anything. I think Blaine's arc was decent enough, though.
Oh dear! Don't mention actual character relationships in a thread discussing Kanto! Especially when you can discuss characters obsessed with perfume and pass it off as personality!
Aya herself was a decent enough character, but like you said, she was wasted space in a one-part gym episode, detracting much of the attention away from Koga himself. And when you add Aya on top of the whole TR fiasco that occured in the episode, Koga really only got about a minute at the end to battle with Ash. It's the same argument I use for the Jasmine episodes - Her intern stole all the light and character development away from her. But even then, at least Jasmine still got a battle that lasted more than a minute.
CyberCubed
Yeah, ok!
I'd say D/P is on par with AG at this point of time quality wise, with the lack of fillers and if it actually has real villains that don't get botched later on, it'll surpass AG by the end in terms of quality.
The problem with Hoenn is it started off great, (nearly all the episodes from AG1 to Wattson's Gym were really great, with the exception of about three of them), but then middle Hoenn started to get bogged down with filler.
I tend to think Advanced and Advanced Battle are the best parts of Hoenn, whereas Advanced Challenge has the weaker episodes. That's not to say middle Hoenn was bad because it still had many really great episodes, but some of the weaker fillers take place there. Battle Frontier started off with some bad filler, particularly between Noland and the Saffron Contest, but then it got really good from that point on until the end.
D/P has started off really strong and doesn't have any throw-away filler yet, which is why the pacing has been very good. The shame is D/P has to last three-years so there probably will be some bland filler eps eventually, but until that happens the saga right now is great.
What I'm more curious about is why AG is suddenly receiving a lot of bashing all of a sudden, particularly from the people who never really watched it to begin with. AG's only real screw-up was how anticlimatic the ending of Magma/Aqua was, but all the early Magma/Aqua eps were really great.
This is why I hope the villains in D/P have a better ending, because that would propell D/P into one of the best sagas yet, assuming the Gyms and Contest are still good, (which they are so far, so no problems there).
The problem with Hoenn is it started off great, (nearly all the episodes from AG1 to Wattson's Gym were really great, with the exception of about three of them), but then middle Hoenn started to get bogged down with filler.
I tend to think Advanced and Advanced Battle are the best parts of Hoenn, whereas Advanced Challenge has the weaker episodes. That's not to say middle Hoenn was bad because it still had many really great episodes, but some of the weaker fillers take place there. Battle Frontier started off with some bad filler, particularly between Noland and the Saffron Contest, but then it got really good from that point on until the end.
D/P has started off really strong and doesn't have any throw-away filler yet, which is why the pacing has been very good. The shame is D/P has to last three-years so there probably will be some bland filler eps eventually, but until that happens the saga right now is great.
What I'm more curious about is why AG is suddenly receiving a lot of bashing all of a sudden, particularly from the people who never really watched it to begin with. AG's only real screw-up was how anticlimatic the ending of Magma/Aqua was, but all the early Magma/Aqua eps were really great.
This is why I hope the villains in D/P have a better ending, because that would propell D/P into one of the best sagas yet, assuming the Gyms and Contest are still good, (which they are so far, so no problems there).
Korobooshi Kojiro
Funnnngaaaaa
Except the fact, you know, Blaine looked NOTHING like in the games. 0.o
Maestro Kinetico said:
Are you saying all movies today are bad? No.
Their are great movies, with great FX and great plots. Stop being a completely nostalgic freak, and get back to 2007.
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Lil Brother
Just kinda there.
Isn't Blaine's anime design the same one from the Japanese R/G or something along those lines?
I'll admit to having blindly bashed Hoenn before, but only when you were bashing Johto first.
Korobooshi Kojiro
Funnnngaaaaa
Oh yeah...
[img139]http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Market/5117/blaine.gif[/img139]
I like Scientist Bliane better.
Maestro Kinético
Well-Known Member
But there's no deep meaning, there's nothing inside the series. The quality is gone. It's like nowadays movies, lots of image but nothing inside. That's just cheap entretainment.
Korobooshi Kojiro
Funnnngaaaaa
What the hell are you talking about Andersen-boy?
First off, movies today still have great plots, not all of them do obviously, but it's not like older movies were all "WINNERS" either.
And there is the same amount of "meaning" the series always had.
And what "deep meaning" are you going on about? How the episodes you talked about basically came right out and told you the lesson? How is that "deep meaning"? That's like saying the Sonic Says segments of AOSTH is "deep meaning" as well.
Basically, the show is still the same quality in plot as it has always been, maybe slightly more.
Maestro Kinético
Well-Known Member
Messages. Like the Gloom episode and the Tentacool/Tentacruel one. They don't have anything inside, just image. D/P has lost the meaning, it's just characters talking in a fairy tale environment. No quality. The movies of nowadays that tend to use lots of FX don't have anything inside, just like Pokemon D/P.
Korobooshi Kojiro
Funnnngaaaaa
The frigging Tentacruel episode basically came right out and said "humans did this, not the Pokemon" and involved a gigantic tentacool monster destroying the city. And their was a happy ending. Not exactly deep...
Sounds like a fairy tale to me.
In fact, I think you're using really bizarre arguments that make no logical sense and confuse me every second, Andersen-boy.
Sounds like a fairy tale to me.
Crossdressing, feminist, perfume...well, the Octillery episode had a simmilar story...but you know, with a crazy moaning octopus which = win.
What the hell are you talking about? How is the enviorment any different?
Considering your too busy whining about floor tiles, eyes, and the fact the animation isn't "Pokemon", even when it is, I can't even take your opinion seriously.
In fact, I think you're using really bizarre arguments that make no logical sense and confuse me every second, Andersen-boy.