Kanto: Perfect...not really.

[Maestro Kinético]

The frigging Tentacruel episode basically came right out and said "humans did this, not the Pokemon" and involved a gigantic tentacool monster destroying the city. And their was a happy ending. Not exactly deep...

Sounds like a fairy tale to me.

It was very deep and it was a good message (distroying their home), ment me an epsiode of D/P that has a deep message.

Crossdressing, feminist, perfume...well, the Octillery episode had a simmilar story...but you know, with a crazy moaning octopus which = win.

The Octirelly episode was plain and a copy, the Gloom episode was very deep and had drama. I loved when Ash rescued Gloom from the fire, that's a good story. ¿A moaning Octopus wins? What kind of argument is that?

What the hell are you talking about? How is the enviorment any different?

The colours, no dark scheme any more.

Considering your too busy whining about floor tiles, eyes, and the fact the animation isn't "Pokemon", even when it is, I can't even take your opinion seriously.

And I can take yours? Please tell me your great arguments about D/P. You just use cheap desquialification, something cowards do instead of admitting that they are wrong.

In fact, I think you're using really bizarre arguments that make no logical sense and confuse me every second, Andersen-boy.

At least I'm not calling people cheap things because I don't have arguments.

 

[Korobooshi Kojiro]

desquialificatio

Desqualification?

ment me an epsiode of D/P that has a deep message.

Well you know, just because a season doesn't have a giant Godzilla like episodes doesn't mean it's any worse. Especially since it's only 20-some episodes in. But...

Spoiler: Click

when Sudowoodo overcame it's fear to help Nuzleaf, that was good and "drama", as you say it.

A moaning Octopus wins? What kind of argument is that?

Because I find a cute Octopus who was an outclass to be cool? Becuase this is a kid's show, and thus I like to be entertained even without drama every second? Because seeing a crazy Octopus headbutt everyone is awesome?

The colours, no dark scheme any more.

Well, we've only had one episode at night. At we have different colors. We have purple, grey, brown, blue, green, black, yellow, white, pink, orange...

Please tell me your great arguments about D/P

Since when was this the thread about DP? This is about Kanto, and I used other seasons to argue instead of the newer season which has not enough episodes to judge yet? And saying DP lacks plot without an example isn't a arguement...

At least I'm not calling people cheap things because I don't have arguments.

You're right, you're bashing a freaking kids show on a Pokemon Message Board, and using really weird arguements that are impossible to debate with. How the hell am I suppose to argue when you use weird things like "itsa fairy tale!!!" even know you apparently don't know what a Fairy Tale is, since the entire show could be labeled as one.

 

[Maestro Kinético]

Desqualification?


Well you know, just because a season doesn't have a giant Godzilla like episodes doesn't mean it's any worse. Especially since it's only 20-some episodes in. But...

Spoiler: Click

when Sudowoodo overcame it's fear to help Nuzleaf, that was good and "drama", as you say it.

Because I find a cute Octopus who was an outclass to be cool? Becuase this is a kid's show, and thus I like to be entertained even without drama every second? Because seeing a crazy Octopus headbutt everyone is awesome?


Well, we've only had one episode at night. At we have different colors. We have purple, grey, brown, blue, green, black, yellow, white, pink, orange...


Since when was this the thread about DP? This is about Kanto, and I used other seasons to argue instead of the newer season which has not enough episodes to judge yet? And saying DP lacks plot without an example isn't a arguement...


You're right, you're bashing a freaking kids show on a Pokemon Message Board, and using really weird arguements that are impossible to debate with. How the hell am I suppose to argue when you use weird things like "itsa fairy tale!!!" even know you apparently don't know what a Fairy Tale is, since the entire show could be labeled as one.

Again, no good arguments. using disquialification again. We already saw Soodowoodos plot. People have given arguments about AG, why don't you compare D/P with Kanto then? Because you can't.

 

[Korobooshi Kojiro]

We already saw Soodowoodos plot

We never saw one conquering it's fear of water to save another. That'd be like saying Charizard Chills is dumb because "we already had a Charizard episodes"!

Not that their is anything wrong with Charizard Chills. It did have the Color Changing Headband of Death, and Charizard losing a battle....

why don't you compare D/P with Kanto then? Because you can't

Hell yeah I can't! Why? Because we're only twenty episodes into it, and the plot hasn't really started to rev up yet. I could say how I consider it to be good so far, and have some nice, entertaining and funny episodes...which, you know, is what really matters in a kids show. Not how many "hidden messages" or the "artistry" of the background. I don't go into a Weekly Produced Kids Show with Shakespearian expectations of plot and art.

And this is the non-spoiler, so we shouldn't be talking really about DP here anyway. If you want to argue about how horrible DP is, then why don't you start a thread about it in the Spoiler Anime Forum?

 

[Maestro Kinético]

Hell yeah I can't! Why? Because we're only twenty episodes into it, and the plot hasn't really started to rev up yet. I could say how I consider it to be good so far, and have some nice, entertaining and funny episodes...which, you know, is what really matters in a kids show. Not how many "hidden messages" or the "artistry" of the background. I don't go into a Weekly Produced Kids Show with Shakespearian expectations of plot and art.

Well there are spectations if the show started as a good quallity show with drama and messages.

¿Anything else to say?

 

[Korobooshi Kojiro]

Well there are spectations if the show started as a good quallity show with drama and messages.

I don't have any 'spectations, on the relations, between dramanization, in a show made in a Japanese nation, but I don't think the quality went on vaction.

Basically I like the show the same as always, and think the newer seasons have just as many good episodes as Kanto did.

And "messages"?

You best aughta not don that..

A Poached Ego had a great message, Team Rocket selfishly protecting wild Pokemon from a hunter.

Tree's A Crowd had Treecko believing in the tree, and itself when others didn't.

Gonna Rule The School taught some kids to work toghether, and that quiet kid finnaly overcame his shyness to help out.

On a Wingull and a Prayer, as Gravy said, had a man basically trying to save Ash and Co. at the expense of his life.

Sharpedo Attack, Brock helping a Pokemon who a few minutes was attacking him, and even earning its trust.

Brave The Wave, taught Ash not to push his Pokemon to crazy lengths just to win

A Corphish Out of Water had Ash carry his sick Pokemon, who earlier he had been yelling at, to safety.

A Mudkip Mission had a lone Mudkip helping out some domesticated Mudkip.

A Meditite Fight had Shauna showing how she was a little to unsure of herself, that she lied about being Brawly's girlfriend.

Abandon Ship had a boy reunited with his long lost Mudkip.

A Pokeblock Party had...well, a crazy man running around. And that is what matters.

And Watt's with Wattson, as Gravy also said, was a GL having a Mid-life crisis because he was unsure of his skills as a GL.

Perfect examples of messages, all from Advanced. XD

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not saying Kanto didn't have messages now, but it's not like all the episodes had wonderful life-changng messages that made me stop, and turn my life around. Unless you can prove it, with more examples. Actually, for sake of arguement, I dare you to get every Kanto episode and say what message it taught us. It's not like the Tentacruel episode was an amazing work of art, but it was a good episode about a giant tentacle'd beast destroying a city. And that rocks.

Also, I'm wondering why you didn't comment on my Sudowoodo arguement?

 

[Maestro Kinético]

I don't have any 'spectations, on the relations, between dramanization, in a show made in a Japanese nation, but I don't think the quality went on vaction.

Basically I like the show the same as always, and think the newer seasons have just as many good episodes as Kanto did.

And "messages"?

You best aughta not don that..

A Poached Ego had a great message, Team Rocket selfishly protecting wild Pokemon from a hunter.

Tree's A Crowd had Treecko believing in the tree, and itself when others didn't.

Gonna Rule The School taught some kids to work toghether, and that quiet kid finnaly overcame his shyness to help out.

On a Wingull and a Prayer, as Gravy said, had a man basically trying to save Ash and Co. at the expense of his life.

Sharpedo Attack, Brock helping a Pokemon who a few minutes was attacking him, and even earning its trust.

Brave The Wave, taught Ash not to push his Pokemon to crazy lengths just to win

A Corphish Out of Water had Ash carry his sick Pokemon, who earlier he had been yelling at, to safety.

A Mudkip Mission had a lone Mudkip helping out some domesticated Mudkip.

A Meditite Fight had Shauna showing how she was a little to unsure of herself, that she lied about being Brawly's girlfriend.

Abandon Ship had a boy reunited with his long lost Mudkip.

A Pokeblock Party had...well, a crazy man running around. And that is what matters.

And Watt's with Wattson, as Gravy also said, was a GL having a Mid-life crisis because he was unsure of his skills as a GL.

Perfect examples of messages, all from Advanced. XD

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not saying Kanto didn't have messages now, but it's not like all the episodes had wonderful life-changng messages that made me stop, and turn my life around. It's not like the Tentacruel episode was an amazing work of art, but it was a good episode about a giant tentacle'd beast destroying a city. And that rocks.

Also, I'm wondering why you didn't comment on my Sudowoodo arguement?

Nothing special about the plots you mented, most of them have been repeated to death. Kanto had the most original plots. I didn't comment on the Sudowoodo thing because some friend told me that in another epp a Sudowoodo had overcome its fear of water. Which he is not sure now. Abyway, the scene of Sudowoodo crossing the river wasn't dramatic at all, it wa svery short and there was no tension. The writers have also forgotten how to create tension ambient.

 

[TeddiUrsa]

Hey Maestro, I´m still looking forward to your reply to Gravy.

Still waiting for some form of counter-argument, btw.

He has some very good points there.

 

[Korobooshi Kojiro]

Abyway, the scene of Sudowoodo crossing the river wasn't dramatic at all, it wa svery short and there was no tension

Spoiler: CLICK!

Yeah their was. If you watched the episodes instead of looking at pics, they had a very nice selection of music playing why Sudowood slowly watched as Brock and Nuzleaf were attacked, and then finnaly jumped over as the sun shone on him, and battle music played. Sounds like tension to me, Mr. Maestro. Just because they didn't draw it out, and have lighting and rain and all that, doesn't mean it wasn't tension.

Nothing special about the plots you mented, most of them have been repeated to death. Kanto had the most original plots

What?

Show me these "original plots" then? I don't recall any other GL having a mid-life crisis, nor a crazy pedophile running around a maze, nor Brock taking care of a scary beast who had been trapping them on an island, nor a man holding a guy and his Wingull hostage so he could get a boat to redevous with his partners, nor do I remember Team Rocket throwing themselves in the way to protect wild Pokemon, nor did a the gang wander around a abandoned ship while each member was slowly picked off by a mysterious force, which turned out to be just a lonely Pokemon who was formally owned by this trainer.

 

[PDL]

The nerd rage is really really strong in this thread.

Anyway, the only lost of dramatics that I can possibly think from the Indigo seasons to now would be the cutting of the original music and replacing with subpar dub music. That could be the cause of the supposed "lost of dramatics" effect.

 

[Maestro Kinético]

Spoiler: CLICK!

Yeah their was. If you watched the episodes instead of looking at pics, they had a very nice selection of music playing why Sudowood slowly watched as Brock and Nuzleaf were attacked, and then finnaly jumped over as the sun shone on him, and battle music played. Sounds like tension to me, Mr. Maestro. Just because they didn't draw it out, and have lighting and rain and all that, doesn't mean it wasn't tension.

What?

Show me these "original plots" then? I don't recall any other GL having a mid-life crisis,

But we had Sabrina.

nor a crazy pedophile running around a maze,

That's a good quality plot?

nor Brock taking care of a scary beast who had been trapping them on an island,

I prefer the Island of the Gigant Pokemon, a very clever plot twist. How many times have we had a beast?

nor a man holding a guy and his Wingull hostage so he could get a boat to redevous with his partners,

No but we have taken Pokemon quite (very) often.

nor do I remember Team Rocket throwing themselves in the way to protect wild Pokemon,

2nd movie

nor did a the gang wander around a abandoned ship while each member was slowly picked off by a mysterious force, which turned out to be just a lonely Pokemon who was formally owned by this trainer.

How many lost Pokemon have we had?

And of course I'm not saying that all the plots repeat, that would be even more ridiculous. I'm saying that the plots of Kanto were better written and they had a quality that the new ones don't have. The show has gotten childish and meaningless.

I'll make another post for Gravy's, not to get confused.

 

[Korobooshi Kojiro]

What?

Nice arguement. Next?

But we had Sabrina.

Oh yes, I remember Ash totally owning her and then she feeling sorry for herself was gonna run away...wait........

That's a good quality plot?

It made for an entertaining episode, yes.

2nd movie

The WORLD was at stake, this was just some random Pokemon they just met. Big difference there, bub.

I prefer the Island of the Gigant Pokemon, a very clever plot twist. How many times have we had a beast?

nor a man holding a guy and his Wingull hostage so he could get a boat to redevous with his partners,

No but we have taken Pokemon quite (very) often.

Island of the Giant Pokemon was extremely different from Sharpedo Attack...

And what do you mean "we have taken Pokemon quite (very) often"?

Usually by Team Rocket, but not by a more serious villain with more evil intentions.

How many lost Pokemon have we had?

On a boat? Kidnapping people? Not many I say.

I'm saying that the plots of Kanto were better written and they had a quality that the new ones don't have

Not all of them. I'll say some were good, but things like March of the Exeggcutor Squad and Lights Camera Quacktion did not have "mind blowing plots and lessons". Lights Camera Quacktion was good because, GASP, it was funny and entertaining. You know, like how a kids show should be.

The show has gotten childish

Guess what? The show has always been childish!

 

[Leona]

chill out ;\ its nothing to get so worked up on -_-

 

[Maestro Kinético]

Nice arguement. Next?


Nice arguement. Next?

Oh yes, I remember Ash totally owning her and then she feeling sorry for herself was gonna run away...wait........

Nice argument.

It made for an entertaining episode, yes.

There are people that consider Jackass entretaining. That doesn't mean that it has good quality.

The WORLD was at stake, this was just some random Pokemon they just met. Big difference there, bub.

Yeah, the whole Pokemon plot was 1000 times better^^

Island of the Giant Pokemon was extremely different from Sharpedo Attack...

Yeah, but we have had lots of beast episodes. Read the thing I said at the end.

And what do you mean "we have taken Pokemon quite (very) often"?

Usually by Team Rocket, but not by a more serious villain with more evil intentions.

Mewtwo? (The first two movies were like Kanto was, they had quality)

Not all of them. I'll say some were good, but things like March of the Exeggcutor Squad and Lights Camera Quacktion did not have "mind blowing plots and lessons". Lights Camera Quacktion was good because, GASP, it was funny and entertaining. You know, like how a kids show should be.

The Exeggcutor Squad had a good plot, the magician reminded me of a friend's first theatre play. No one was there. It was so sad, i felt sorry for the Magician.

Guess what? The show has always been childish!

Not entirely. As I have said millions of time it had mature writing and intelligent plot twists. Now it's just childish and plain. No quality. You don't argue with me there, why?


Please let me answer to Gravy...

 

[Korobooshi Kojiro]

Nice argument.

You're missing the point that Sabrina and Wattson's stories were incredibly different....

There are people that consider Jackass entretaining

What? Well...I'm not one of them.

Yeah, the whole Pokemon plot was 1000 times better^^

Pokemon 2000 didn't have a great plot really either..........atleast Poached Ego was good for a thirty-minute episode, and actually showed Team Rocket in a different light (which is always good, a la Holy Matrimony, Sweet Baby James).

Yeah, but we have had lots of beast episodes. Read the thing I said at the end.

What's a "beast" episode? 0.o

Mewtwo? (The first two movies were like Kanto was, they had quality)

Lucario beats them easily...

It was so sad, i felt sorry for the Magician.

The Magician hyponotized a child and then started a rampage of Exeggcutor....the man was an ***.

Not entirely. As I have said millions of time it had mature writing and intelligent plot twists. Now it's just childish and plain. No quality. You don't argue with me there, why?

It has quality, as much quality as people logically expect from a kids show without glorifying it, a la you and Kanto mon ami.

And "intelligent" plot twists? No. All the plot twist were plain obvious, including Joy in the Dark City episode.

[img139]http://www.serebii.net/anime/pictures/indigo/042/I38.jpg[/img139]
PLOT TWIST!

 

[Rex Kamex]

I still have the "Kanto = AG" opinion. I think they're both overrated and underrated by different people. Buuuut I already got into that.

I agree, D/P has been good so far, and what's wrong with Hikari's role as a coordinator?,the bike thing is just for laughs, don't take that serious.

Basically S.Suikun already mentioned the first thing, [SPOIL]we already had a coordinator, and if we could see Ash battling in gyms in multiple regions (main character or no main character, he's still a 1st generation character in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation places) we should've seen May do the same thing. Then we'd have a girl co-star, Hikari could do something new but just as important (and maybe even involve her with all those different dresses- XD), there'd be an equal number of people per gender in the group, yadda yadda yadda.

And the bike thing was pointless, but I didn't like it when they did it with May either.[/SPOIL]

Those are the two main problems I have with D/P [SPOIL]although the first one is a big one[/SPOIL], but aside from that (oh yeah, and the lack of [SPOIL]Team Galaxy so far[/SPOIL]), it doesn't look bad at all. The [SPOIL]Pokemon Hunter[/SPOIL] episode looks really cool.

 

[Jolty77]

Mewtwo? (The first two movies were like Kanto was, they had quality)

I avoided this thread after I posted the first time, because quite frankly I got scared to post because people get way into it, but, I'll post now.

Have you ever actually seen the 8th movie? That has drama and lessons and all that other stuff you claim only Kanto has.

Self-sacrifice for the better of society is a pretty big lesson. Aaron, Lucario, and even kinda Mew showed us that.

It had some real dramatic parts: Jessie getting attacked by the tree and James trying to save her, James being attacked and releasing his prized Pokemon to be saved. Same goes for the others, those scene's were pretty sad (especially when Ash's all cried *tear*). As well as Mew saving them all.

The storyline was amazing as well, Lucario on a mission to find out what really happened after he thought he was abandoned. I won't say Ash's was too original because he searches for Pikachu all the time. That movie was about 10x better then Mewtwo's.

The sad part is if you reply to this you won't have a real reason you will just say "I'd rather have the first movie."

 

[Maestro Kinético]

I avoided this thread after I posted the first time, because quite frankly I got scared to post because people get way into it, but, I'll post now.

Have you ever actually seen the 8th movie? That has drama and lessons and all that other stuff you claim only Kanto has.

Self-sacrifice for the better of society is a pretty big lesson. Aaron, Lucario, and even kinda Mew showed us that.

It had some real dramatic parts: Jessie getting attacked by the tree and James trying to save her, James being attacked and releasing his prized Pokemon to be saved. Same goes for the others, those scene's were pretty sad (especially when Ash's all cried *tear*). As well as Mew saving them all.

The storyline was amazing as well, Lucario on a mission to find out what really happened after he thought he was abandoned. I won't say Ash's was too original because he searches for Pikachu all the time. That movie was about 10x better then Mewtwo's.

The sad part is if you reply to this you won't have a real reason you will just say "I'd rather have the first movie."

I'm not saying that it isn't good, because it has some content (unlike the other movies). But comparing to the 1st Movie... it loses. The 1st one was not only dramatic, it had a marvelous plot, supberb showing great messages. The character of Mewtwo was amazing, I never imagined that a Pokemon character could be that developed.


Answering to Gravy I have to say sorry. I made a mistake, and you mented it. While saying that I prefered Kanto, I acted like AG didn't have great episodes, which it had. But comparing to Kanto in my opinion (and being three seasons) it just doesn't compare to it.

But with D/P I have no doubt, there is no content, just image.

The main point of this thread is too discuss if Kanto is perfect. And it's not. But for me it is the best season by far, quality wise of course. It's obvious that with time the animation has gotten better (altough in D/P we have the same colour scheme always and some crappy episodes).

This is not a fight, there are no winers. For some people Kanto is the best and for some it's not. Have a nice Carnival day^^

 

[S.Suikun]

All right, I think I'll have a shot at Captain Yesterday here.

I'm not saying that it isn't good, because it has some content (unlike the other movies). But comparing to the 1st Movie... it loses. The 1st one was not only dramatic, it had a marvelous plot, supberb showing great messages. The character of Mewtwo was amazing, I never imagined that a Pokemon character could be that developed.

Are you saying that Lucario wasn't "developed"? Really, Mewtwo's only real change of attitude resulted from witnessing the Pokemon's deep feelings toward a human being. Then it just flew away. Lucario, on the other hand, had a far more dramatic (yeah, I used your word "dramatic", except I'm going to use it properly) transformation throughout the movie, resulting from its traumatic confusion reagrding his master and why he was sealed away. Lucario is turned cold and antisocial, yet determined to find the truth about his master. Throughout the first half of the movie, he quite honestly doesn't give a rat's ass about Ash and co or what happens to them. At the end of the movie, he is willing to sacrifice his own life for their good, as he discovers the heroism and sacrifice his own master made. Mewtwo, on the other hand, is just like "Let's forget this crap ever happened and call it a day".
Ash willingly putting his life on the line to save the world? Yeah, that's like...EVERY Pokemon movie.

Heck, the 2nd and 3rd Movies were also far more dramatic than the 1st.

Message of Movie 1 - Pokemon aren't just battling tools, and friendship conquers all. Fluff that's covered time and again in the anime, anyways.

This is not a fight, there are no winers. For some people Kanto is the best and for some it's not. Have a nice Carnival day^^

Well okay, at least that's ONE understanding we can all come to here.

 

[Korobooshi Kojiro]

But with D/P I have no doubt, there is no content, just image.

DP has good episodes too....like I said, I'd love to debate with you over that, but a thread about "How DP Is Bad" would be better in the Spoiler Forum then here. You can make one if you want.

The character of Mewtwo was amazing

Teh emo! I liked Mewtwo ALOT BETTER in Mewtwo Returns.

Mewtwo, on the other hand, is just like "Let's forget this crap ever happened and call it a day".

MIND ERASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Erasing the characters minds is a cheap ending, whatever way you look at it.

(unlike the other movies)

...which had content as well.

The main point of this thread is too discuss if Kanto is perfect

And you said:

best season featuring drama, good quiality writing, comedy, and plot twists. Ah, the old good days...

That pretty much sounds basically like "Kanto wins easily, and the good old days rocked!

This is not a fight, there are no winers. For some people Kanto is the best and for some it's not.

Whoa...I never expected you to say that. 0.o
My respect for you has increased slightly...assuming you mean winners and not whiners.

Also...what is Carnival day?

Now, I hope you didn't get me wrong. I have nothing wrong with Kanto, I just think it's horribly and usually unfairly overestimated by many fans (not just you...actually, a ton of people).