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Kid Icarus: Uprising

Escheria

Ray Tracer
Holy cow, the thread is still alive :O
 

poix_the_yak

I stay noided
Yeah, sort of!

I actually have a hankering for some online multiplayer right now. Probably won't happen since I need to study for finals, but I might be on later today.
 

Zachmac

Well-Known Member
Any one here like to do online battles?

I'm a fairly competent player with a number of high grade weapons (all hovering around 300)
I really love the multiplayer, but it's also very broken. Black Hole, Explosive Flame, Trade Off, and a plethora of possible ways to make weapons that 1-shot fighters. I usually use weapons with less then 250 value, and only bring out my OP ones when I want to get revenge on someone who does use all that Dash Charge Shot +4 junk. Then I change multiplayer rooms.
 

Master Knight DH

Active Member
Black Hole isn't broken. There's plenty of ways to protect against it, and the Interference Hole combo even has painful amount of startup. It's just a matter of managing your powers so that:
*You don't get BH-h4xed early.
*You have workable anti-armor for any feasible speed kills.

If anything, BH allows low range weapons like the Skyscraper Club to force opponents to stay put where they can't get away, which actually adds to the balance when such things have extreme trouble getting close otherwise.

Explosive Flame broken? I have to scoff at that. It's expensive and has limited range. Maybe with Power ATK+ does it become ridiculous, but otherwise, it punishes people who get cornered or deters people from getting close. Don't rely on it for the latter because it doesn't even hinder Super Armor.

Trade-Off, I can see the annoyance. It's a mercy that Super Speed is inexpensive per charge, but if you don't go with that, you'd still have to figure out how to wall TO or it will give you no shortage of problems. However, if you do wall it, the opponent will have only 1 HP left. Their survival becomes incredibly unlikely.

Mods in general are an issue unto themselves. It's telling when Overall DEF+, the most expensive mod in the game, is still too cost effective. Let me put this out there: it should be expensive ONLY to keep it from being mindless survival. It should NOT be needed to survive ANY mob abuse AT ALL. And it certainly should NOT make anti-armor attacks garbage. If you get hit by an anti-armor attack, I don't care what your defenses are, because you got hit by a harder to use attack and you should be penalized for it. Even if you're using an armor setup, you should be able to outmaneuver the attack reliably to begin with.

But, of course, since we would want to disregard that idiocy, I'll just point out that even if we ignore that attack powers ignore DEF mods, Overall DEF+/Health+ can be outpaced anyway by mere attack power boosts. 5 Stars/(Move)+4 multiplies attack power by ~3.57x, which outpaces Overall DEF+8/Health+6's effective HP multiplier of ~3.5x. And then there's enough room to add in even more stupidity like Evasion+, Shot Range+, Weaken+ (which screams free Energy Charge if you're wondering, because EC isn't freaking 8 spaces minimum), you get the idea.

Actually, yeah, I can see why Dash Charge Shot+ has stupidity involved. Although its melee counterpart Melee Combo+ is still more mindless and the melee offense mods cost LESS than the range ones. However, Shot Range+ is what deserves to be blamed, surprise surprise. Let's look at the stupidity involved with Shot Range+ if you don't follow:
*Capricorn Club's counterbalance to its strengths is an awful distance multiplier, but Shot Range+ neuters that.
*UNMANAGEABLE LOOPING. Looping works as the sniper weapons' close range incentive and a way to gut overreliance on mid range combat. It's broken when it HUMILIATES MID RANGE COMBAT.
*Predator Cannon's undodgeable backshot. It forces people to carry something like Super Armor just to stand a chance. And believe me: without SR+, the backshot actually starts being dodgeable even with capped homing.
*Weapons like Viridi Palm which are meant to have bad range in exchange for high effectiveness within their limited range become mid range horror shows.
*It makes certain weapons redundant. The Earthmaul Club for example has weaknesses designed to prevent it from being top notch range abuse. But weapons that suddenly need only 35 Value to match its range don't have any such weaknesses.
*IT'S OVERCENTRALIZING. If you need it to bust kiting, either you are thinking that you beat kiting by abusing a tool that also helps kiting, or the game simply did not check kiting properly.

Yeah, I had to put this out there.
 
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Zachmac

Well-Known Member
If anything, BH allows low range weapons like the Skyscraper Club to force opponents to stay put where they can't get away, which actually adds to the balance when such things have extreme trouble getting close otherwise.
I'd argue that the difficulty getting close is the balance for those weapons.
Explosive Flame broken? I have to scoff at that. It's expensive and has limited range. Maybe with Power ATK+ does it become ridiculous, but otherwise, it punishes people who get cornered or deters people from getting close. Don't rely on it for the latter because it doesn't even hinder Super Armor.
And anyone who is caught up with it is immobilized for you to throw your powerful Magnus Club or Guardian Orbitars for free hits. I actually find it quite easy to hit a target with Explosive Flame, despite it's relatively poor range, it's rather wide and opponents don't have any time to react if you're already close enough.
Mods in general are an issue unto themselves.
...This I can agree with.
Actually, yeah, I can see why Dash Charge Shot+ has stupidity involved. Although its melee counterpart Melee Combo+ is still more mindless and the melee offense mods cost LESS than the range ones. However, Shot Range+ is what deserves to be blamed, surprise surprise. Let's look at the stupidity involved with Shot Range+ if you don't follow:
And I agree with all of these as well.

Now that I think about it, the problem probably lies in the variety. Imagine an Aquarius blade with a freezing modifier and a the status elongating one, whatever it was called. Today I fought an Ogre Club with +4 walking speed that just went crazy when paired up with some powers. I couldn't really do much to fight back or run away when I became Dark Pit, and I was equipped with a Magnus Club when I became him. And then there is Eyetrack Orbitars + Shot Homing, Laser/Flintlock Staff + that instant aim skill....

Aside from raw power, I'm starting to think it's nothing specific that's OP, besides some things like Melee Combo +, but instead the combinations you can come up with. Perhaps if the multiplayer had no mods or powers, there would be far, far less broken.

But in the end, I do agree with you that mods are the most broken part of the game. When I face a broken weapon, it is almost always tied to the weapons mod first, and powers second.
 
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Master Knight DH

Active Member
I'm going to have to Bold my responses.

I'd argue that the difficulty getting close is the balance for those weapons.
Actually, that's true. The problem is when the opponent can turn the matchup into an auto-win by a 5YO's tactic. Black Hole fixes that without being so threatening in the early game when the opponent's powers are generally unknown.

And anyone who is caught up with it is immobilized for you to throw your powerful Magnus Club or Guardian Orbitars for free hits. I actually find it quite easy to hit a target with Explosive Flame, despite it's relatively poor range, it's rather wide and opponents don't have any time to react if you're already close enough....
Those two weapons are close range though. So is Explosive Flame. Black Hole is a cleaner catch for less space.

This I can agree with.And I agree with all of these as well.
Thank you.

Now that I think about it, the problem probably lies in the variety. Imagine an Aquarius blade with a freezing modifier and a the status elongating one, whatever it was called. Today I fought an Ogre Club with +4 walking speed that just went crazy when paired up with some powers. I couldn't really do much to fight back or run away when I became Dark Pit, and I was equipped with a Magnus Club when I became him. And then there is Eyetrack Orbitars + Shot Homing, Laser/Flintlock Staff + that instant aim skill....
Autoreticle?

Anyway, I wouldn't call the simple variety a problem. I could buy dealing with an Ogre Club with Speed+ mods being balanced if Speed+ mods weren't so cost-effective for their versatility. There are some things to note in other combinations, like an Autoreticle staff is likely to have Slip Shot, and only one of those two powers can be leveled on the same set. But honestly, when things like Weaken+ are not expensive enough when their more temporary power equivalents still use decent space on the grid, assuming they do that, problems arise fast.


Aside from raw power, I'm starting to think it's nothing specific that's OP, besides some things like Melee Combo +, but instead the combinations you can come up with.
I wouldn't call combinations in and of themselves OP as long as they don't detract from the counter play. It's often the individual facets that create problems. Melee Combo+ for example is effectively cheaper Melee Stars because 90% of your melee attacks are combos.

Perhaps if the multiplayer had no mods or powers, there would be far, far less broken.
Powers in general are fine, actually. With statuses forced onto powers thus expending precious grid space, fewer people would need to pack Effect Recovery. And then there's Grid Reading. That's self-explanatory.

But in the end, I do agree with you that mods are the most broken part of the game. When I face a broken weapon, it is almost always tied to the weapons mod first, and powers second.
Yeah, banning mods would force weapons like Gemini Orbitars to care that they deal pitiful base damage until they use either Energy Charge, Libra Sponge, or Trade-Off, all of which are expensive.
 

worldwaker

Elebug disaproves
i'm looking for a differnet weapon,something that does the same thing,but makes the game harder,and i consider myself very lucky to have the claws i do,thanks sol for telling me to get artillary claws
but for the weapon:
artillary claws
range:4
melee:3.5
shot defence +1
weakening +2
standing ch. shot +1
standing cont. fire +4
so is there anything i can use that plays with a simaler style,but aren't as stong?
 

worldwaker

Elebug disaproves
The game isn't hard enough with those Artillery Claws? Are you playing on a lower intensity?
no,i play on 7.0-9.0,what makes you think that they are bad?
 
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Murder Doll

Button Presser
Try using compact arm with some range mods on it to make it viable in air combat...basicly like the claws you're using now but with the added challenge given by it's wide spread side dash & it weird back dash
 

Master Knight DH

Active Member
I don't know? Maybe the 3+ Melee Stars on Artillery Claws? Better yet, Melee Stars on a solo weapon in general, period?

Also, if you're playing on 7.0, you're proving you haven't TOUCHED Boss Battles Hard or some of the stupider chapters on 9.0.
 

worldwaker

Elebug disaproves
I don't know? Maybe the 3+ Melee Stars on Artillery Claws? Better yet, Melee Stars on a solo weapon in general, period?

Also, if you're playing on 7.0, you're proving you haven't TOUCHED Boss Battles Hard or some of the stupider chapters on 9.0.
your saying that as if i have control over every last detail of my weapon.guess what?i don't.and i'm not going to sit there and grind for the perfect weapon,that's the reason i left an mmo,in order for groups to accept you in,and therefore,have fun,you had to have gear on the power level of the gearthat dropped in said quest.and having a weapon to powerful makes the game boring.what's more fun?clearing a 9.0 chapter in crisis mode with a weaker weapon,or,clearing a 9.0 chapter at full or near full health because you had a "perfect"weapon.
 

Master Knight DH

Active Member
your saying that as if i have control over every last detail of my weapon.guess what?i don't.and i'm not going to sit there and grind for the perfect weapon,that's the reason i left an mmo,in order for groups to accept you in,and therefore,have fun,you had to have gear on the power level of the gearthat dropped in said quest.and having a weapon to powerful makes the game boring.what's more fun?clearing a 9.0 chapter in crisis mode with a weaker weapon,or,clearing a 9.0 chapter at full or near full health because you had a "perfect"weapon.

I'm actually against the way the weapon making system is handled, and for the general reasons you mentioned no less. It's in fact part of the reason why I would rather mods be banned from competitive play as a whole. The reason for my reply is because I'm being realistic. The term Artillery implies that you're supposed to fight at long range constantly. And then you remark that the game isn't so hard with a blatantly messy weapon. It's insulting when you claim that without having seen some of the beeswax 9.0 chapters such as Chapter 17 and Chapter 24. And don't even get me started on Boss Battles Hard. It's just absurd.

If you are in that much need of a challenge, remember that Value is pointless in single player, so having weaker or no mods is unconditionally weaker. But I would just love, LOVE to see somebody do all chapters on 9.0 with a 100V Skyscraper Club. I guarantee that they'd make HideOfBeast look like a n00b.
 

Master Knight DH

Active Member
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAAYUKlKjdutdg
If this doesn't scream needing to be patched, I don't know what does.

Edit: Ugh. That Vanilla jackhole deleted the topic. Well, to summarize, he was showing off a glitch that allows ANY weapon to fire shots from MUCH further than they normally can. If you want to know how high the multiplier is, the first pic showed the Magnus Club fire a shot that traveled 66.5m. Even people who think Mario Kart 7's patched shortcuts weren't a problem would have to cringe at the idea of this glitch. If they don't, they're more shallow than I think.
 
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Master Knight DH

Active Member
Well, it's happening here:
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAADMUKllOFl1-w

And you can power the Magnus Club with Slip Shot as well. Just that without ANY glitches it's near-useless to do so. Clincher is, it no doubt works with OTHER WEAPON TYPES AS WELL. I can't imagine EVASION+ standing a chance against the beeswax that the glitch would be allowing for.

It needs to be patched. So I posted a topic on the Tech Support forums:
http://techforums.nintendo.com/message/125353#125353

If you want the glitch to die now and leave this world because it will never belong here, please post a response on the Tech Support topic showing your support. At the very worst, the topic is a start, as it will increase the chance that somebody will manage to contact a developer who can get the glitch patched.
 
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