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King of the Sea (No, it is not Lugia!)

Discussion in 'Older Gen RMT' started by azeem40, Feb 12, 2013.

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  1. azeem40

    azeem40 Pokemon is fun!

    I am back again! This time, I plan on using my favorite 2nd Gen Pokemon, Kingdra. Hopefully, with the help of you all, it can sweep late-game when all of its counters are gone.

    Without further ado, let's get to it!

    Well hello again! This team is based around Kingdra, my favorite 2nd Gen Pokemon. He is underrated, but with team support, he can shine to fame. Without further ado, here's the team!

    Big Tusks the Mamoswine @ Life Orb
    Ability: Thick Fat
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Ice Shard
    Icicle Crash
    Stone Edge

    He is back again! With a massive Attack stat, no wonder he is such a behemoth. Ice Shard really helps revenge kill Dragons, OHKOing a vast majority of them besides Kingdra (more common than other UU Dragons) and Dragonite. Against Dragonite, it 2HKOes through Multiscale, but OHKOes after Stealth Rock damage. I've had situations where they switched in Dragonite thinking I was Choice locked into Earthquake, and were quickly 2HKOed. Not only is Ice Shard useful for revenge killing Dragons, but it also revenge kills other threats, such as Adamant Breloom if I win the speed tie, Venusaur, and Landorus. Icicle Crash is the main ice STAB; it lets Mamoswine OHKO Gliscor after Stealth Rock damage. Earthquake and Stone Edge form the EdgeQuake combo, hitting almost all OU threats for neutral damage. Stone Edge will always OHKO Gyarados after Stealth Rock damage. Max Attack and Speed allows him to hit as hard and as fast as he possibly can. After testing Mamoswine out as per justin's advice, I went with Expert Belt instead of Life Orb (which he suggested) as it has been helping me predict my opponent, since they expect Mamoswine to be wielding a Choice Band (not Life Orbed). For example, I used Earthquake on a Pokemon and KOed it. Thinking that I was locked into Earthquake, they sent in Gliscor, who I promptly OHKOed with Icicle Crash after SR damage. Plus, I hate being locked into one move if I can help it.

    With that all being said, Justin is not the only reason Mamoswine is back, however. Another reason for his return is, after playing more matches with this team, more often than not, Dragon types have not been reliably dealt with by Kingdra, Gyarados (only Flying Dragons), and Latios. Mamoswine almost always keeps them at bay or outright KOes them after SR and/or prior damage with Ice Shard. Ultimately, in my experience with this team, Dragons, more often than not, have been more of a nuisance to my team than Steel types. Latios has been doing great so far against against Steel types with Hidden Power Ice. However, as soon as I find Steel types more trouble than they are now, I will go back to Magnezone, so think of him as "in reserve".

    Gyarados takes the Steel, Fire, Water, and Fighting attacks for him while he takes the Electric attacks aimed at Gyarados. Same with Kingdra except for Fighting.

    Breloom and him have great defensive synergy, as they resist attacks the other is weak to.

    The Fist the Breloom @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Technician
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Bullet Seed
    Mach Punch
    Swords Dance

    Breloom is quite the fighter, sporting an awesome 125 Atk stat with a great ability, Technician, and a great STAB Priority Technician move, Mach Punch. Speaking of Mach Punch, it is the move I spam the most and is the most powerful single attack move on this set. Even without an SD boost, Mach Punch will OHKO Tyranitar 87.5% of the time. I could use Life Orb to guarantee that OHKO, but I almost always have SR on the field, and I never lead with TechniLoom anyway. The combination of Swords Dance and Mach Punch dents even Pokemon that resist him. Bullet Seed punishes bulky Water types. This Breloom doesn't really aim to take down any specific threat. It is mainly for damaging whatever it can so my other sweepers to finish off. I chose Lum Berry over Life Orb as I like the assurance against status inducers.

    Kingdra - .25x Fire

    Rampage the Gyarados @ Leftovers
    Ability: Moxie
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 56 HP / 248 Atk / 204 Spe
    Dragon Dance
    Stone Edge

    Meet Gyarados, who has been putting fear in the hearts of many since Gen 1. I chose SubstituteGyara so he doesn’t get cripple by statuses. He is usually my lead if I suspect the opponent is going to lead with a Dual Screener like Espeon or Azelf, allowing me an opportunity to set up Dragon Dances. Substitute allows me to successfully pull of a Dragon Dance on a switch-in as well. Waterfall is his only STAB and has a handy flinch rate. Stone Edge hits Water types and Dragons that have a Rock weakness/neutrality, such as Salamence, Dragonite, and opposing Kingdra. 108 Speed EVs allows him to outpace anything slower than, and including, Starmie; meaning (just an example), Tornadus isn’t safe to spam Hurricane to confuse me. I haven't really been seeing the benefits of Intimidate, so I swapped it for Moxie, which has really helped in his sweeping potential. Sometimes, I can get 3 Dragon Dances off, OHKO a Pokemon, get a Moxie boost, and then OHKO even an Intimidate Salamence with Waterfall after Stealth Rock damage.

    Mamoswine: Electric (x0), Rock (x1)
    Gyarados: Fire, Fighting, Steel, Water (.5x)

    Spiks the Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    Nature: Relaxed
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
    IVs: 0 Spe
    Power Whip
    Gyro Ball
    Stealth Rock
    Leech Seed

    After testing my team, I found out that Rain Teams give me trouble, especially Specs Keldeo, and also Latios. For that reason, Forretress had to go. He wasn't really providing much to the team besides Rapid Spin, but even that wasn't really needed since I only had one Pokemon weak to it. With that being said, say a hardy hello to Ferrothorn. Stealth Rock is needed on every team and mine is no exception. I would use Spikes over one of my attacking moves, but that has two problems; one, without Gyro Ball, he is helpless against a majority of OU Dragons, and two, without Power Whip, Bulky Water types such as Vaporeon and Gastrodon hard wall him, healing off the Leech Seed damage with Wish and Recover, respectively. Power Whip also helps against Ground types such as Mamoswine without Superpower. Gyro Ball always OHKOes Gengar while his Focus Blast doesn't even OHKO unless there is both SR and Spikes on my side of the field. Leech Seed allows me to stall out some Pokemon and prevent set up sweepers like Dragonite from setting up Dragon Dance or Latias from setting up Calm Minds. 0 Speed IVs are here so I can guarantee that OHKO on Gengar because if I had 31 Spe IVs and an Impish nature, it would only manage 63.36% - 74.81%.

    Gyarados/Latios - .5x Fire and .5x Fighting; Kingdra - .5x Fire

    The Jet Airline the Latios @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Pressure
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Draco Meteor
    Hidden Power Fire

    Meet my Revenge Killer, ScarfTios. Draco Meteor is the most powerful move on this set, as it can dent even Pokemon that resist it, while decimating almost everything else minus a few, such as Specially Defensive Tyranitar.I tested out Hidden Power Fire over Dragon Pulse, and although a reliable STAB Dragon move was useful, I just found Hidden Power Fire too valuable to give up, because with Magnezone gone, Steel types are rampant through my team, and I need a way to get rid of them. Latios has been doing good so far in that regard. Surf, although it won't KO Tyranitar, will weaken it enough so that Kingdra can finish them off. Psyshock, unfortunately, does not OHKO Keldeo and Terrakion, but even though it weakens them into KO range for my other Pokemon to finish off, I decided to just use Breloom to Revenge Kill the latter while Kingdra can take care of the former. In place of Psyshock, I have been using Trick, which helps cripple walls and setup sweepers alike. Max Special Attack is a given, due to how Latios's stats are set up: he wants all the SpA he can get, since he doesn't have the power of Life Orb or Choice Specs. With max Speed and a Choice Scarf attached, he reaches a breakneck 525 Speed, meaning he outspeeds Modest Venusaur in the sun and OHKOes with Hidden Power Fire, and +2 Adamant Gyarados/Dragonite and 2HKOes with Draco Meteor.

    Forretress - .5x Ghost, .5x Dark

    King the Kingdra @ Life Orb
    Ability: Swift Swim
    Nature: Modest
    EVs: 40 HP / 240 SpA / 228 Spe
    Draco Meteor
    Hydro Pump
    Rain Dance

    Meet RainDra, the superstar of the team, one of the most potent sweepers in OU under the rain, and my favorite 2nd Gen Pokemon. This thing is also quite bulky. I’ll start with the EVs first. 228 Speed allows him to outspeed Scarfed Latios and OHKO with Draco Meteor under Rain. 40 HP EVs allows him an optimal number for taking Life Orb and entry hazard damage. Hydro Pump can OHKO and 2HKO many Pokemon under rain. Latios is always 2HKOed with Hydro Pump in the rain while Latias is 2HKOed with a combination of Hydro Pump and Draco Meteor (in that order) most of the time, but is guaranteed with Stealth Rock provided she doesn't Calm Mind beforehand. Rain Dance is the reason he is so threatening with his Water STAB. It also boosts his Speed to new heights, meaning only Scarf users with base 115+ Speed wielding a Choice Scarf outspeed him. Surf might be crazy when Hydro Pump exists on this set, but on Gliscor, I cannot afford to miss with Hydro Pump and allow him to set up a Sub or Toxic poison me. Surf also lets me sweep late-game. Life Orb is the item of choice, as without it, unlike in Mamoswine's case, I lose out on the KOes against Lati@s.


    Note: The lack of a Steel type is a downside, but so far, I have yet to have a problem with them.

    Here's my team. Sorry if it is rushed. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I will update it soon with pictures. Team Building section soon to come. Thanks!
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
  2. justinjiaxinghu

    justinjiaxinghu class on my back

    Hey azeem!
    Pretty cool team you have there :p
    I see that the MVP or ur team is Kingdra, but why not use Politoed? It automatically sets up rain for you, and with the right bulk, can tank some of the moves that would prevent Kingdra's supporters from doing their job. Wormadam is also a VERY strange spinner, and I have no right to change it as I have never used it b4. All I would suggest is maybe fit Politoed in there somewhere. You can decide where, because I'm not too sure what to replace, and I dont want to screw up ur team.
    Hope this helped!
  3. silverangel

    silverangel Metal Fairy

    In OU, you can't use a Swift Swim abuser with a Drizzle abuser. Also, were is no Wormadam in the team. It's Forretress. Wormadam doesn't even learn rapid spin.
  4. azeem40

    azeem40 Pokemon is fun!

    Yeah, and this isn't a rain team. Rain Dance is used for Kingdra to sweep late-game.

    EDIT: So my team is good as is? No problems to report or replacements to suggest?
  5. azeem40

    azeem40 Pokemon is fun!

    I have been doing a few battles the past 45 mins and I'm going to show the ones I have won or the foe has forfeited. From these, hopefully you guys can help me figure out what Pokemon are doing their part and are worth keeping, and what Pokemon aren't pulling their own weight and are worth tossing.


  6. silverangel

    silverangel Metal Fairy

    Why not posting some of your losses as well? If you were using these matches for bragging and such (like I do in the Nuzlocke forums), then you could post only your winning matches. As this is an RMT that you are trying to improve, you should at least post all your matches. That way we can also check for any weak points in the team.
  7. azeem40

    azeem40 Pokemon is fun!

    I didn't use my losing matches because they were lost mostly due to silly mistakes. Is there anything I should change?
  8. silverangel

    silverangel Metal Fairy

    Still, post your losing matches. You also make some silly mistake in some of your winning matches (your opponents made more, though). Posting winning and losing matches allow people to find your battling style and help you correct it, such as recurring mistakes. Overall, the team seems quite solid to me. One piece of advice I would give you is to use all the set up time you can get to set up. I saw that your Gyarados walled Keldeo, so that would a great opportunity to set up Gyarados to +6. Also, you changed Intimidate to Moxie, right?

    So yeah, post all your matches, and I'll get a better analysis on your team. It can't just be on paper, it also has to be in practice.
  9. azeem40

    azeem40 Pokemon is fun!

    Last edited: Feb 13, 2013
  10. justinjiaxinghu

    justinjiaxinghu class on my back

    Sorry for not reading, I dont know what has gotten into me today. First I go absentminded and put body wash on my hair, and now I misread your team info lol. Anyways, onto the rate!
    The first battle was pretty much useless, as you were facing a pretty..erm...unexperienced battler. (Or maybe he/she just wanted to mess around? lol)
    The second match was really quick, and it didnt really show what was wrong with your team or anything. You just the Conk set up, and it sweeped your entire team. You shouldve switched out immediatly, and revenge killed with Latios.
    The third match provided some more info on your teams advantages and weaknessess. Kingdra obviously performed very well, but without the rain up, I realized that Garchomp can do some major damage to your team once Latios is out of the game.
    The fourth match was like the second match, except the opponent let you sweep lol. Cant really say anything here.
    The fifth match was probably the best one and gave me the most info about your team. Again, it showed how much a problem Garchomp could be to your team when Latios is taken out. Breloom also doesnt seem to do much failing to KO Garchomp with a swords dance up. Kingdra and Gyarados seem to be your best members, giving you a lot of wins.
    Besides the battles, by looking at your team, I think Venasaur under the sun would give you a hell lotta trouble. Sludge Bomb at +2 would OHKO Breloom and Latios (after hazards). HP Fire kills Forretress, and Giga Drain takes care of the rest of your team. Kingdra is sort of a counter, setting up rain to cancel the speed boost, but it requires a turn to do that, and that could be your downfall

    Hope this helped :D :D
  11. azeem40

    azeem40 Pokemon is fun!

    It helped with pointing out threats and problems, but no way to fix them. Could you suggest any changes I should make in moveset/EVs/item/ability/Pokemon?
  12. justinjiaxinghu

    justinjiaxinghu class on my back

    Oh, ok. Well, as I said b4, Garchomp is a bigggggg threat once Latios is out. To fix this up, I suggest Mamoswine over Magnezone. From the battles I've seen, Magnezone didnt really do much for you, being bait for Garchomp. Mamoswine gives you guaranteed protection for Salamence, Dnite, Garchomp, and all those other dragons/genies waiting to spring at you in the OU tier. It also allows you to hit opposing Breloom hard before they can shoot off a Spore. It also has good synergy with Gyarados/Kingdra. Gyarados/Kingdra takes those Steel, Water, and Fire Types that Mamoswine would despise.
    Mamoswine@Choice Band/Life Orb
    EVS: 252 Atk; 252 Spe; 4 HP
    Trait: Thick Fat
    Nature: Jolly/Adamant
    -Ice Shard
    -Icicle Crash
    -Stone Edge/Superpower

    This set is pretty straightforward. Life Orb gives you more flexibility, but lowers Mamoswines longetivity drastically, and gives you a smaller boost than Choice Band. However, Choice Band locks you into one move, which may prove crucial in fast-paced battles. Earthquake is a super duper strong STAB, Ice Shard for revenge killing genies/dragons, Icicle Crash for another powerful STAB, and Stone Edge completes the EdgeQuake coverage. Superpower can be used over Stone Edge if you like, but it really doesnt do much, so I suggest Stone Edge > Superpower
  13. azeem40

    azeem40 Pokemon is fun!

    I've been testing out Mamoswine over Magnezone and it has been performing great. Breloom and Mamoswine both give me great priority attacks that really help against Dragons and Terrakion, respectively. However, I went with Expert Belt as it has been helping me with predicting my opponent, since they expect it to be Choice Banded (never have they thought I was Life Orbed). For example, I used Earthquake on a Pokemon and KOed it. Thinking that I am locked into Earthquake, they sent in Gliscor, who I promptly OHKOed with Icicle Crash after SR damage.

    So the changes made so far are:
    SpecZone -> Expert Belt Mamo
    Added SD TechniLoom
    Psyshock -> Trick and Dragon Pulse -> Hidden Power Fire on Latios.
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
  14. silverangel

    silverangel Metal Fairy

    ^they never thought you were life orbed because you never lost health while attacking. However, Expert Belt is great for bluffing Choice items, though you have to prepare for a large drop in power.
  15. azeem40

    azeem40 Pokemon is fun!

    As I have said on Mamoswine, Expert Belt has not been losing me any KOs I would have gotten with Life Orb.
  16. Blue Harvest

    Blue Harvest Banned

    I'll rate this team for you once the OP is 100% updated!
  17. azeem40

    azeem40 Pokemon is fun!

    Thank you. I should have time to update it later tonight. I am away from the computer atm.
  18. azeem40

    azeem40 Pokemon is fun!

    I updated my post a while ago.
  19. Blue Harvest

    Blue Harvest Banned

    Don't stealth bump please lol. Mods can see literally everything, even deleted and edited posts. I'll rate your team either tonight or tomorrow morning :) Sorry it hasn't been done sooner but I've been really busy IRL.
  20. azeem40

    azeem40 Pokemon is fun!

    My bad and take your time.
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