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Lana Hooks A Kyogre!? (1063)

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
We've heard you the first hundred times that you don't think Lana is interesting. Whether her character is interesting or not wasn't what the conversation was about.

Still though it is often that stuff that goes into an actual character arc and downplays the belief they are getting rushed and given 'freebies'.

Charizard that was mentioned as a counter example would be far less interesting and offer far less long term focus if Charizard wasn't disobedient afterwards for example. That would...kind of be it for him until Johto.
 
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Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
OS Ash got tons of freebies and Charizard is far from the worst given that it didn't listen to him. He got an overpowered Krabby for the league for instance (courtesy of Oak's training), he got most of his badges for free, and Charizard beating Magmar wasn't earned at all because Ash did jack in actually training Charizard (regardless of how epic the battle was by the standards of that era).

I'm not invested in Lana because she must grow much as a character or whatever, don't think she grows all that much or gets all that much. She gets shafted quite a bit out of opportunities, didn't even participate in the battle with Ryuki because she got shafted, lost to Kiawe at ping-pong, didn't get to participate in the pokémon sled jumping, got shafted at the pancake race, and so on. I'm enjoying her more as a fun gag character. I don't really identify or project on her like I do with Lillie, I enjoy her gags. It's a different kind of enjoyment Lana offers. Don't think they're trying to portray her as some perfect person or whatever, she's just very athletic and they have fun exaggerating that for comedic purposes, but that athleticism doesn't offer her anything substantial in the plot. Athleticism doesn't benefit her in any way in a pokémon battle.
 
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DatsRight

Well-Known Member
That's kind of the thing though, Lana doesn't really work as a protagonist outright. She's more the mould for a recurring side character, a fun 'guest' you like seeing every now and then but isn't really meant to be the main attraction since she doesn't have the depth for it and her development isn't tracked intricately and recurrently enough. She'd work better with that ambiguity of not seeing her all the time.
 

p96822

Evolve me please
@DatsRight, Lana isn't the most depths characters in the Pokemon series, but I do feel like her goal is being accomplished by Brionne evolving into Primarina. I mean because Brionne Bubbles were far stronger then they were when she was a Popplio. I do think Lana has a strong personality that she can be a main protagonist.
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
That's kind of the thing though, Lana doesn't really work as a protagonist outright. She's more the mould for a recurring side character, a fun 'guest' you like seeing every now and then but isn't really meant to be the main attraction since she doesn't have the depth for it and her development isn't tracked intricately and recurrently enough. She'd work better with that ambiguity of not seeing her all the time.
It's mostly people's expectations that are a bit off I feel like, expecting everybody in a six-person cast to get as much development as cast members in a two or three-person cast. She's not harming the plot at all by being in the main cast, and her eccentricities can provide a lot more comedic relief if she's actually around. She wouldn't work as a sole protagonist or if she was the only one aside from Ash, but in a large cast like this I don't see an issue with it. You can get away with different roles in the main cast. Some more developing on their own, others providing comedy relief, and others being more catalysts in supporting the others.
 

Kintaro

Banned
Lana is arguably the most developed SM character besides Kiawe. Lillie hasn't had much development since she got over her fear of pokemon in the first year. Mohn is a story arc, but you can't say it's leading to development.
 

Sulfurian

Well-Known Member
The only problem I have with Brionne evolving is the fact that it didn’t battle and it’s not the reason why you think. For the past 6 generations we are told that battling is what makes your Pokémon evolve through experience (minus trade and stone Pokémon) but Sun and Moon completely contradict this. The closest to official battle Popplio had was battling Lusamine’s Pokemon yet she evolved twice. Which makes you wonder what is the point of battling when Pokémon clearly are capable of getting stronger without it.

Do you guys not remember ash's noivern lol
 

p96822

Evolve me please
How did the Hunters posion Kyogre in the first place when they didn't use any poison type move that had the ability to Poison Kyogre. Seismitoad didn't use Sludge Bomb that was Venomshock. The only way I think they would have poison Kyogre with Seismitoad's Poison Touch Ability, but it didn't showcase that during the battle with Ash and Lana's Pokemon, so again how did Kyogre got Poison in the first place?
 

FlygontheRavager

#1 Pokémon Anime Fan!
How did the Hunters posion Kyogre in the first place when they didn't use any poison type move that had the ability to Poison Kyogre. Seismitoad didn't use Sludge Bomb that was Venomshock. The only way I think they would have poison Kyogre with Seismitoad's Poison Touch Ability, but it didn't showcase that during the battle with Ash and Lana's Pokemon, so again how did Kyogre got Poison in the first place?

You're right; that was Venoschock's animation, not Sludge Bomb's. I suppose it must have had the Poison Touch Ability after all.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
Yes she got freebies, she didn't deserved one bit to get primanium z crystal just because she trained one full night and brionne's evolution is one of the worst and most forced evolutions in anime, there were many pokemon who battled more and had more training than it but still didn't evolve. Ash got free z ring and electrium z but atleast his first crstal broke away showing h needs to earn it i dont see lana's primanium z breaking it was also a freebee. It ridiculous how much people defend lana here. Also ash getting 5 pokemon is low point because by this time he always have full team.

You are making this difficult. Because we all know there's a real life reason for MOST of these things, it extremely difficult to argue for in-universe reasons, when your complaints have to deal with the real life reasons.

The reason why a Pokemon battles constantly and doesn't evolve, is quite simply the Pokemon choose not to evolve, but more accurately because the writers and producers say so. There are so many other Pokemon that battled heavily had NO indication of not wanting to evolve, but still didn't evolve, one could make the argument any evolution is an insult to them regardless of who it is. I mean take Dawn's Buneary, its supposed to evolve by happiness, it's not an evolved Pokemon, kind of seems like an insult of Dawn and Buneary's relationship if she doesn't evolve but they ultimately decided NOT to evolve Buneary.

There are plenty of Pokemon who evolve early without much development. Why? Because the writers and producers say so, and then they evolve said Pokemon just because.

Saying something is an insult to other Pokemon is kind of bizarre when we consider largely a lot of Pokemon choose when to evolve or appear to choose when to evolve, very rarely have we seen a Pokemon "forced" to evolve (and by that I mean Bulbasaur, and Piplup).

I honestly don't think in the anime, in context with the anime. There is ever an argument of "Someone deserving their evolution or not" because evolution is not based on whether or trainer "deserves it or not" there isn't some evolution god that exists, that says "Yes you have beaten 10 opponents, you will be rewarded with an evolution" I think its more accurate to say evolution is chaotic and random (especially when you consider the evolution of wild Pokemon), that it does seem like it is the choice of the Pokemon. And I don't know how I feel about the argument of people saying a Pokemon can't choose to evolve when they feel like it because those people deem it as "not deserving an evolution" it just doesn't make sense, whether you look at it purely as a fictional show nor as if you were to some how think this show is real life.

Again as I said, the only seemingly (to me) valid argument is the equivalent of "Brionne didn't do as much as I would like, that sucks" anything else feels like a weird argument given the mechanics that have constantly been shown in the anime. I don't think no matter how much anyone complains, they're going to change the varied reasons why a Pokemon evolves, when they are the ones decided when the Pokemon evolve. And for the starters we all know they like to shove the basic stages down our throats. Don't recall ANY middle stage starter ever getting more than its basic stage (under the assumption it fully evolves within the series its in), so I don't know what to tell you other than that.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
I didn't have huge expectations for this episode when the news about it was announced, but I liked Suiren's subplot and the inclusion of Kyogre. My only gripe was the evolution since I don't think Suiren has done enough to justify her owning Ashirene, but I'm willing to wait and see how that goes.
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
Why does this episode make me feel like Eevee should have belong to Ash instead of Lana?

I think it's because there were some moments were Eevee was grouped with Ash. You know it would be interesting if Eevee starts getting jealous of Primarina, after this since Primarina will have just been recently evolved and will probably start practicing to be able to use it's signature Z-move in episode 124, and also that Primarina can go underwater with Lana without any assistance.

It would be interesting if we started maybe seeing Eevee get jealous of Primarina in episode 124 because it wants Lana to focus on it and perform a z-move with it but she is busy working with Primarina on her signature Z-move, heck maybe this could lead to Eevee eventually searching for a Water Stone to evolve into a Vaporeon to try and impress Lana and convince her to use a Z-move with it.
 

Twilight-Kun

Pokemon World Champion
I'm going to chuckle is Lana battles Ilima and she loses because she's only got one Z-Crystal that the anime doesn't treat like an attacking move for some reason

I'm also looking forward to Ilima using Extreme Evoboost and the match grinds to a halt for several hours while eeveelutions from all over Alola are forced to swim out to the League to give Ilima's eevee a pep talk to boost its self-confidence
 

ash&charizardfan

Humans are tools
Ash had four in Kanto by this point because Charizard didn't listen... He has five now, but he's at the lowest point ever blablabla. Lana has two pokémon and gets all the freebies. Seriously, you're lacking counting skills.

Brionne trained plenty, every other scene in the background it was training with its balloons. It only didn't do anything if you ignore everything it did. Haters gonna hate and they're going to make up stuff and twist information just so they can continue hating this series.

You are the one who is lacking counting skills have you forgotten krabby, muk and tauros he had with him at oak's lab he may not have it outright but we are counting all the pokemon he caught in kanto alone.

Brionne may have trained in background for few seconds but it still doesn't make its evolution fair since there are many pokemon who have trained much harder and still doesn't evolve. And where am i hating this series so counting some negative point is now hating a series.
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
You are the one who is lacking counting skills have you forgotten krabby, muk and tauros he had with him at oak's lab he may not have it outright but we are counting all the pokemon he caught in kanto alone.
If they're at Oak's they're by definition not with him. If we're counting all of the pokémon at Oak's he has over 70 pokémon already by now.
 

shoz999

Back when Tigers used to smoke.
I just watched the episode and at the end of it, it shows Lana seemingly telling the story of Kyogre as a fib, shocking Ash with a heartscale who was supposedly there. So was that entire episode's story all just in her head or did it actually happened because it would make a lot of sense if that entire episode's plot was just Lana telling a story because that's the oddest depiction of Kyogre I've ever seen.

In some ways it seems that the anime crew didn't do a lot of research or planning for Kyogre because they didn't even bothered to explain what Kyogre is other than it's a legendary Pokemon. Then there's the fact that is so calm and gentle which is a weird contrast to practically all of it's previous appearances. The one common thing I've seen with Kyogre's appearances is that people are freaking terrified of Kyogre because it's chaotic control over the seas can drown the lands. Games, Adventures manga, Generations, anime and even the TCG artwork depicts it a creature to be feared, one that cannot be controlled by any, an ancient force of nature beyond human and even Pokemon understanding. In generations, we saw Archie and his team freaking out that Kyogre was never in his control and started to drown the entire Hoenn region upon awakened but in this episode, Ash, Lana and the Poachers just seem to be very calm and confidant throughout most of the episode. No one is shocked, horrified, fleeing from Kyogre as best at they can and honestly that part is kind of believable because of how de-powered Kyogre seems. The electric shock attack for example I imagine would just be a small scratch to Kyogre, not a painfully powerful stall tactic. It should be able to break out or pull the net by force easily, dragging the massive submarine-ship at extremely fast speeds. That tiny whirpool around the icy platform Ash & Lana are on? That seems tiny compared to the storms and massive whirlpools he can conjure up that can engulf entire Alolan islands.

This depiction of Kyogre is just so weird but it would make a lot of sense if that entire episode's story was told as a fib rather than actually happening.
 

Twilight-Kun

Pokemon World Champion
I just watched the episode and at the end of it, it shows Lana seemingly telling the story of Kyogre as a fib, shocking Ash with a heartscale who was supposedly there. So was that entire episode's story all just in her head or did it actually happened because it would make a lot of sense if that entire episode's plot was just Lana telling a story because that's the oddest depiction of Kyogre I've ever seen
The post-credits scene is just Lana being Lana

She told the actual story at the end of the episode
 
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