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Leads in 5th Gen

Discussion in 'Older Gens' started by Pooh Bear Squared, Apr 20, 2011.

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  1. Pooh Bear Squared

    Pooh Bear Squared Beginnin' Trainuh

    So it is my understanding that with the introduction of Black and White, before each battle you see the opponents party, and are then able to switch which pokemon is in the 1st slot (your lead). In my opinion this renders dedicated Lead Pokemon such as Suicide Leads and Anti-Leads completely useless. In fact I would go as far to say that the concept that in a team you should have a dedicated lead is obsolete.

    And yet in the Competitive Rate My Team section a majority of teams being posted still contain a lead Pokemon, which got me to wondering that either 1: People don't even know about this new feature. Or 2: That they believe that a lead pokemon is still a viable and good option.

    Now here's my two cents: Having a dedicated lead is not useful
    Explanation: Being that you are able to view your opponents team and are able to rearrange your own team to suit means that you can get a fair idea of that teams weaknesses or perhaps that teams overall strategy.
    Eg: If you see a Tyranitar and an Excadrill, it is fair to assume that your opponent is planning a sweep with Excadrill, in doing this you may not want to lead with your Gliscor (a common lead) as you might not want to risk it getting fainted, as Gliscor is a great Excadrill counter, and you want to keep Gliscor in the battle to be able to prevent being swept by Excadrill.

    So in my opinion, it is beneficial to not have a pokemon that you will lead with EVERY time, as this prior-view allows you to plan your battle rather than just sending out a pokemon because it is your lead.

    So there it is, I'd very much like everyone else's opinion on this too though, but PLEASE before you post, read the whole thing! I took the time to write it, so it'd be common courtesy if you would take the time just to read it.

    Cheers :)
  2. ungulateman

    ungulateman Miltank Man!

    I still find using a dedicated Pokemon for setting up and/or preventing entry hazards, or getting early momentum.

    See: Whimsicott.
  3. kaiser soze

    kaiser soze Reading ADWD

    well you can definitely find a FEAR from a mile away.

    I think they tried to emphasize the random battles this generation. you can get some surprise with your lead in random matchups because you dont need to use the first one. but in 3v3 a dedicated lead is kinda wasted
  4. Alleviate

    Alleviate Banned

    I really like Gigalith/Golem with the new Sturdy ability and a Custap Berry.
    Or Forretress for Toxic Spikes/SR/Rapid Spin
  5. chanseychansey77

    chanseychansey77 Elite Trainer

    I heard on Smogon Scollipede is a reliable lead for setting up Toxic Spikes.
  6. windsong

    windsong WEST SIDE

    If there are any more posts in this thread that even mention FEAR i will either laugh, cry, or both. Seriously if you think that it's a viable strategy at all then you shouldn't be posting in the competitive sections...

    And yeah, lead is basically an outdated term -- having a dedicated lead sort of sucks, and most of the teams that do here are for dw play which doesn't have team preview.
  7. homestarhydon

    homestarhydon Battle Fanatic

    I personally don't use a lead very often anymore. In fourth gen, my signature was starting off with a life orb-ed ambipom on all of my teams, and it often caught people off guard, sometimes even allowing me to KO as many as three pokes before 'pom was down.

    But now he's useless, all because of team preview, and the send out their best ambipom counter as their lead, then while I switch out, they can get their momentum going. It's very hard to catch up after that, and it took me a while to realize that.

    But now that I'm not using a dedicated lead and have a full team of six solid mid- or late-game pokes, my win streak has drastically increased.
  8. blaZofgold

    blaZofgold Active Member

    And yet I saw someone using Aron as a FEAR variant just today.....FAIL

    I think a way to arrange your team is to have more than one pokemon that can work as a lead. For example, Whimsiscott and Weaville. Especially since they think you'll start with Whimsiscott, allowing you to adjust accordingly.

    I think the best strategies involve "feinting" with your Pokemon, especially in random matchup. Pretending to use a pokemon this way, while actually using it in another.
  9. Zachmac

    Zachmac Crystalline Guardian

    They're still good in 6vs6, but in 3vs3, I like gengar. It sweeps, hangs on with the focus sash, then destiny bonds.
  10. CloudVII

    CloudVII Push It To The Limit

    Something everyone is forgetting is that even if you can pick out who the lead is, who says you can stop it?

    Anyway, someone I've noticed to be a nice lead is Bisharp. With access to Mean Look, Stealth Rock, Taunt, T-Wave, and Rock Polish, it has a nice lead pool. 65/100/70 for a lead isn't too bad either, with 70 at Speed too.
  11. Archeops with Acrobatics, Stone Edge and U-Turn. He's speedy enough to counter many Pokemon, and then storm them with Acrobatics (which, without an item, and STAB, makes for a move with 165 Power, 100% Accuracy, and no kickback), or take out ones resistant to the move with Stone Edge. If he takes too much damage, and defeatist kicks in, use U-Turn and switch out to something else.

    Since I have no Wi-Fi, I've never tried out metagame, but Archeops is absolute pwnage either way. It's one of the best Fossil Pokemon ever, Aerodactyl ripoff or not.
  12. blaZofgold

    blaZofgold Active Member

    ^ Add a Rock Gem for Uber Stone Edge before Acrobatics sweeping. I prefer using him for late-game sweeping because there are faster pokemon out there that easily OHKO this guy.
  13. Gamefreak

    Gamefreak Well-Known Member

    Yeah, the lead concept is pretty much dead.

    I just put Reuniclus or something in the front of my party to lure Scizor and Tyranitar, but I normally send out Dragonite first most of the time which can beat Scizor + Tar.
  14. Korusan

    Korusan Banned

    or Flying Gem if you want a pretty much guaranteed OHKO
  15. The lead metagame as we know it from 4th Gen is pretty much gone. Nowadays, it's good to have a couple of Pokemon on your team that can function well as leads. You might have a Ferrothorn, Heatran, and Latios on your team, for example. Each can make decent leads in their own manner. Ferrothorn can set up early entry hazards, Heatran can set up hazards or be a fearsome anti-lead, and Latios can Trick a Scarf or Specs onto an enemy lead, possibly rendering them useless. Otherwise, it's best to lead with whatever affects your opponent's team the most.
  16. kaiser soze

    kaiser soze Reading ADWD

    I have played about 20 random single ranked matches. I ran into stealth rock once
  17. Zachmac

    Zachmac Crystalline Guardian

    In 3vs3, entry hazards are down. Leads, however, might still work.

    The new lead is trying to take down as many pokemon as possible. I've been using gengar, but others might be Starmie, Mienshao, Raikou, Infernape, ect. It's usually best to give them sashes or life orbs. You can still use bulky ones, but not as leads.
  18. Zach74

    Zach74 Haunters gonna haunt

    I still use a dedicated lead mainly to set up Stealth Rock. With Volcarona running around burninating everything, the 50% cut in the HP is pretty nice. I play very defensively, so setting up some hazards here and there and being able to safely switch to bulky stuff is nice. But the concept of a lead is greatly changed. Offensive leads are the norm now. But still, deciding a lead is still important.
  19. Clubinhand

    Clubinhand Member

    Dedicated leads are a bad idea this gen. You should have a 2 other pokes that are comfortable playing as a lead depending what you see. You run a dedicate stealth rock lead like fortress are nice but what stops me from just o easy win haxrorus/ menace in the front lets get an easy 6-0 sweep going?
  20. windsong

    windsong WEST SIDE

    Also why are we talking about 3v3...it's not even an official metagame, ololol
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