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Legendaries Discussion Thread

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Nunn

Pokermanz Meister!
Giratina is more of a general stand-in for the underworld then Satan on his own, particularly since nothing about its story shows it has any resentment towards Arceus nor try to spread evil to the world or anything of the sort.

While I agree that Giratina is not evil. I do see it as the pokemon parallel to Lucifer/Satan.

It was created by Arceus (god) as one of the first pokemon. But was banished because it was too violent. And it's the "Renegade" pokemon. Rebelling against god just screams Lucifer to me.

Regarding Tapu Koko's standing as legendary or otherwise: the official site doesn't categorize it alongside Solgaleo and Lunala when you filter for Legendary Pokemon, instead it falls into the Other Pokemon category.

Not to imply that it won't be treated as such in-game, but as of right now it's a regular Pokemon.

Magearna is classified as "other" as well. But it's still a legendary pokemon. But both Magearna and Tapu Koko have larger images on the official site than the other pokemon when you look at the full list. The only others with large images are Solgaleo and lunala. So it's pretty safe to assume Tapu Koko is legendary seeing as it is considered a guardian deity, gets it's own special section of the trailer, story, signature move and unique ability.
 

Beck

Soul Suckin' Jerk
Zygarde and Magearna are counted in that category too, though. I think it's more notable that it gets a larger portrait like Magearna and the box legends.

I understand that the argument is largely semantics as they all clearly hold more significance than the average Pokemon, but it's worth pointing out the various levels of "Legendary" Pokemon at play.
 

Illusio

Well-Known Member
While I agree that Giratina is not evil. I do see it as the pokemon parallel to Lucifer/Satan.

It was created by Arceus (god) as one of the first pokemon. But was banished because it was too violent. And it's the "Renegade" pokemon. Rebelling against god just screams Lucifer to me.

I won't deny that there are some parallels (most of which comes more from the archetype, but that's neither here or there), but aside from the banishing thing, it doesn't fully suit the role of Satan. Both Arceus and Giratina draw more from polytheistic religions then Abrahamic ones, which fits because Pokemon is a world where different legendaries serve different roles rather then just one omnipotent being. Giratina is more like Yomi from Shinto religion or even Hades then it is Satan since it doesn't really care about the outside world unless you interfere with its duties and just minds its own business. It may be violent, but it doesn't get that way unless something irritates it in the first place, in which case its reaction is more justified then just random cruelty.
 
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Nunn

Pokermanz Meister!
I won't deny that there are some parallels (most of which comes more from the archetype, but that's neither here or there), but aside from the banishing thing, it doesn't fully suit the role of Satan. Both Arceus and Giratina draw more from polytheistic religions then Abrahamic ones, which fits because Pokemon is a world where different legendaries serve different roles rather then just one omnipotent being. Giratina is more like Yomi from Shinto religion or even Hades then it is Satan since it doesn't really care about the outside world unless you interfere with its duties and just minds its own business. It may be violent, but it doesn't get that way unless something irritates it in the first place, in which case its reaction is more justified then just random cruelty.

Well most legends, ans pokemon in general do take inspiration from many different places. So I don't see why it can't be partly inspired by Lucifer/Satan. As well as having aspects of yomi and Hades as well.
 

shadowF

Well-Known Member
Im just guessing and hoping with all this praying to the pokemon guardians and everything that in the end we have an evil team that is a cult worshiping a certain Pokemon. The villain could wear white robes or grey robes and is worshiping to this pokemon that will take over the world. I think that is a nice twist and something new and refreshing that this time instead of a pokemon serving the villains there could be the villains serving the pokemon.
 

Nunn

Pokermanz Meister!
I understand that the argument is largely semantics as they all clearly hold more significance than the average Pokemon, but it's worth pointing out the various levels of "Legendary" Pokemon at play.

But they are all still legendary. Major legends like Solgaleo and Lunala who are game mascots and have a greater role in the story. Mythical legends like Magearna who are obtained through events and minor legends like Tapu Koko and Zygarde who have more minor roles in the story.
 

Illusio

Well-Known Member
Well most legends, ans pokemon in general do take inspiration from many different places. So I don't see why it can't be partly inspired by Lucifer/Satan. As well as having aspects of yomi and Hades as well.

I don't think I said otherwise, I agree that there are parallels, I just think most of it inspiration comes from other sources and that it's not a 1:1 representation.
 

Nunn

Pokermanz Meister!
I don't think I said otherwise, I agree that there are parallels, I just think most of it inspiration comes from other sources and that it's not a 1:1 representation.

Ah my bad, sometimes it's easy to misunderstand others in text form. True, it is not an exact representation. But I do see it as the closest thing to the pokemon universes equivalent of the devil.
 

goodpeople25

Well-Known Member
9 is the most? You may want to recount.

Gen 1: 5
Gen 2: 5
Gen 3: 10
Gen 4: 13 (Not counting Phione)
Gen 5: 13
Gen 6: 6

If anything the norm is at least 6+ legends. Assuming we'll be getting at least 3 mythical legends, a quartet, and the traditional trio, we'll be seeing at least 10.
As I said earlier, for the purposes of the conversation I (and later posters may have followed suit since the number 9 came from there) was not counting mysticals. It was kinda the point really. Alexander18 said he wanted at least 9 legends but not 3. Since the only gen with 3 legends is Kalos not counting mysticals, I said he was setting his sights a bit high to use the Max as his low point, OR that he forgot 3 legends from Kalos.
 

Nunn

Pokermanz Meister!
As I said earlier, for the purposes of the conversation I (and later posters may have followed suit since the number 9 came from there) was not counting mysticals. It was kinda the point really. Alexander18 said he wanted at least 9 legends but not 3. Since the only gen with 3 legends is Kalos not counting mysticals, I said he was setting his sights a bit high to use the Max as his low point, OR that he forgot 3 legends from Kalos.

Aint nothing wrong with wanting more legends I guess.
 

Nahiri

Selesnya Guild
Regarding Tapu Koko's standing as legendary or otherwise: the official site doesn't categorize it alongside Solgaleo and Lunala when you filter for Legendary Pokemon, instead it falls into the Other Pokemon category.

Not to imply that it won't be treated as such in-game, but as of right now it's a regular Pokemon.

lmao so are Zygarde and Magearna. I think "Legendary" is a category they saved for the box legends.

EDIT: woops, someone pointed that out already.

I think I read somewhere that Tapu Koko was a mythical Pokemon? Can't entirely remember where. Now, it would be a little strange if that was the case and you still encounter it during the story, but it would shake things up a little and provide more incentive to download it when it actually comes out.

Pretty certain it's a normal Pokemon/Legendary tho. Just an idea.
 
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Mythical pokemon are pokemon that can't be caught in the game and are only obtainable by wifi or serial code. Therefore they don't count as legendary pokemon in the games. Zygarde can count as a legendary in Sun and Moon if it is indeed in Sun and Moon. However, if we are talking of gen7 legendary pokemon then we can consider Solgaleo and Lunala as confirmed legendary pokemon. Not sure if the guardians are considered legendary but judging by their appearance, abilities and what they are based on then I say they would be legendary.
 

Nahiri

Selesnya Guild
Mythical pokemon are pokemon that can't be caught in the game and are only obtainable by wifi or serial code. Therefore they don't count as legendary pokemon in the games. Zygarde can count as a legendary in Sun and Moon if it is indeed in Sun and Moon.

They are still considered legendaries, they just have a different name and subclassification now. And I'm almost 100% certain Zygarde was confirmed to be in SM.
 
They are still considered legendaries, they just have a different name and subclassification now. And I'm almost 100% certain Zygarde was confirmed to be in SM.

They still don't count in my opinion as you can't catch them (aside from Deoxys inORAS). Any legendary that can be caught in the game is classed as legendary. Legendaries obtained only in events are mythical pokemon.
 

Wulava

danger chili pepper
Staff member
Moderator
They are still considered legendaries, they just have a different name and subclassification now. And I'm almost 100% certain Zygarde was confirmed to be in SM.

Legendary and Mythical Pokemon are considered separate groups. Japan refer to them separately.
But for the sake of ongoing arguments and discussion, Solgaleo, Lunala, Tapu Koko and Zygarde are Legendary Pokemon. Magearna is Mythical.
 

Erron Black

The Outlaw
Legendary and Mythical Pokemon are considered separate groups. Japan refer to them separately.
But for the sake of ongoing arguments and discussion, Solgaleo, Lunala, Tapu Koko and Zygarde are Legendary Pokemon. Magearna is Mythical.

Yeah but the Mythicals are called Mythical Legendaries, which makes them legendary Pokemon nonetheless. It's just easier and more accurate to call them Mythicals.

They still don't count in my opinion as you can't catch them (aside from Deoxys inORAS). Any legendary that can be caught in the game is classed as legendary. Legendaries obtained only in events are mythical pokemon.

You catch Darkrai, Shaymin, and Arceus in DPPt, and hatch Manaphy in those games.

You can catch Victini and Keldeo in BW if I recall correctly.

Mew and Deoxys are both caught in Emerald/FRLG.

They still count as legendary Pokemon even if you don't want to consider them so.
 
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Mrs. Oreo

Banned
I agree, I was not the biggest fan of receiving a Lati@s in ORAS.

I wouldn't mind if we receive a free legendary pokemon in Sun and Moon as long as it has some other use like mega Latios/Latias did with soaring in Or/As. I expect that the Alola guardians, Solgaleo and Lunala will all have to be caught however and won't just join our teams with no effort.
 
Yeah but the Mythicals are called Mythical Legendaries, which makes them legendary Pokemon nonetheless. It's just easier and more accurate to call them Mythicals.



You catch Darkrai, Shaymin, and Arceus in DPPt, and hatch Manaphy in those games.

You can catch Victini and Keldeo in BW if I recall correctly.

Mew and Deoxys are both caught in Emerald/FRLG.

They still count as legendary Pokemon even if you don't want to consider them so.

Those are only obtained by event items so they don't count. Any legendary that is caught in the game without event item is classed as legendary. Any legendary that is only obtained by event item or by an event is a mythical pokemon. You can't get Keldeo in BW. It is only from event.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
I wouldn't mind if we receive a free legendary pokemon in Sun and Moon as long as it has some other use like mega Latios/Latias did with soaring in Or/As. I expect that the Alola guardians, Solgaleo and Lunala will all have to be caught however and won't just join our teams with no effort.

I don't think we'll be given gift Legendary Pokemon in Sun & Moon, not counting Magearna since it's from an event. Free Legendary Pokemon take some of the fun out of the games.
 

Nunn

Pokermanz Meister!
Mythicals are just legendaries obtained through special events.

Deoxys was a mythical pokemon, but can now be caught in-game in ORAS. Did it magically change from mythical to legendary?

They started all this nonsense of saying they are different in gen V. But all the pokemon fit the legendary status by being genderless, having a BST of 600 (besides Arceus) and being banned from many battle formats.
 
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