RedJirachi
Veteran member
I wonder if Marshadow will get some new form
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Legendaries Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Snoo
- Start date
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Ophie
Salingerian Phony
I've seen some people argue that they aren't. I haven't seen any compelling reasons though.
Marshadow's overpowered enough as it is.
Veeeerry small chance, GF doesn't care what we complain about lol
Weavy
I come and go suddenly
From what I've seen, the majority seem to agree the Tapus can be considered legends. They've got lore and stats to back them up.
The controversial ones seem to be the Ultra Beasts along with Type:Null and Silvally. These are heavily distributed as to whether they are considered legends; some say they are, others not. Both sides do have some good points on either side of the spectrum.
I've mentioned it before, but I'm of the belief that the Tapus and UBs can be considered legends. The Tapus, see above (Lore and stats). The UBs are far more complicated. The game's coding groups them with other "minor" legends such as the birds and beasts, they are excluded when you turn off the special Pokémon on the GTS and they have the green banner in the Pokédex just like the Tapus do. There's also some other things, such as Burnet mentioning there are legends about them and...
With Type;Null and Sivally, I'm heavily conflicted myself. Just like the Tapus and UBs, they have the green banner, are grouped with other legends in the code and are excluded when special Pokémon are turned off. However, unlike Tapus and UBs, they don't have as much lore. I'm still trying to figure out my answer.
I guess at the end of the day, I'm just one person. Other people have their own points too. It just comes down to what you think.
The controversial ones seem to be the Ultra Beasts along with Type:Null and Silvally. These are heavily distributed as to whether they are considered legends; some say they are, others not. Both sides do have some good points on either side of the spectrum.
I've mentioned it before, but I'm of the belief that the Tapus and UBs can be considered legends. The Tapus, see above (Lore and stats). The UBs are far more complicated. The game's coding groups them with other "minor" legends such as the birds and beasts, they are excluded when you turn off the special Pokémon on the GTS and they have the green banner in the Pokédex just like the Tapus do. There's also some other things, such as Burnet mentioning there are legends about them and...
the fact that it's pretty much implied that Cosmog and its evolutionary relatives are Ultra Beasts. Since the Cosmog line are legends, shouldn't the others be too?
With Type;Null and Sivally, I'm heavily conflicted myself. Just like the Tapus and UBs, they have the green banner, are grouped with other legends in the code and are excluded when special Pokémon are turned off. However, unlike Tapus and UBs, they don't have as much lore. I'm still trying to figure out my answer.
I guess at the end of the day, I'm just one person. Other people have their own points too. It just comes down to what you think.
Bguy7
The Dragon Lord
The way I've always seen it is that Lunala and Solgaleo are special instances of Ultra Beasts that also serve as Legendary Pokemon, while the other Ultra Beasts are the equivalent of the normal Pokemon in Ultra Space.
Remmie
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but the Ultra Space is the Ultra Space and the game is not in Ultra Space, so they count as legendaries. Until they make a game in Ultra Space where we can catch as many as we want. Until then, let's count them as Legendaries. Phione is also legendary.
Bguy7
The Dragon Lord
Sorry, but I've been through this debate before and really don't feel like opening it back up.
Also, for the record, I do consider Phione Legendary.
Excitable Boy
is a metaphor
honestly, I think Game Freak may in part be transitioning away from the concept of "Legendary Pokemon" encompassing anything and everything that exists as a one-off and towards a more focused definition
I think it's telling that the Tapus are only ever referred to as "Land Spirit" Pokemon, and the Ultra Beasts are only referred to as "Ultra Beasts," with the "Legendary" title reserved for Cosmog's line, Necrozma, and Zygarde
we've already seen the "Mythical" designation used to segregate event 'mons from other Pokemon traditionally thought of as "legendary" - I dunno if there'll be reclassifications for older minor legends or what, but I wouldn't rule out a retcon of anything under 660 BST into a new category. a Sinnoh remake would be a good place to do that given the number of legendaries there, I'd think
I think it's telling that the Tapus are only ever referred to as "Land Spirit" Pokemon, and the Ultra Beasts are only referred to as "Ultra Beasts," with the "Legendary" title reserved for Cosmog's line, Necrozma, and Zygarde
we've already seen the "Mythical" designation used to segregate event 'mons from other Pokemon traditionally thought of as "legendary" - I dunno if there'll be reclassifications for older minor legends or what, but I wouldn't rule out a retcon of anything under 660 BST into a new category. a Sinnoh remake would be a good place to do that given the number of legendaries there, I'd think
Bguy7
The Dragon Lord
I would find that odd simply because there's nothing about the Tapus, unlike the Ultra Beasts and Type: Null, that might lead one to think that they're not to be considered Legendary Pokemon. I'm certainly open to the idea, especially seeing as I already see Ultra Beasts and possibly Type: Null fitting into a new gray area, so to speak, though I'm not convinced that there's any major reason that what we have traditionally known as "minor Legendaries," the group that the Tapus fit into perfectly, should be put in the same group.
Orphalesion
Well-Known Member
In Japanese there always was a difference between Mythical and Legendary Pokemon, the translations just didn't bother to differentiate them until later on.
From what I know, the Ultra Beasts and the Tapus aren't considered Legendaries in competition rules.
TCPi is strangely inconsistent about that, in another press release (I believe the one for VGC), it only says some legendaries are not allowed even though all of the out-and-out stated legendaries (Solgaleo, Lunala, Necrozma, and the Mythicals) were excluded. So in one press release, they actually imply at least some of the contested Pokémon like the Tapus are legendaries whereas with this recent one, they aren't implied at all.
Edit: Yeah, it was actually VGC's ruleset that mentioned it.
Edit: Yeah, it was actually VGC's ruleset that mentioned it.
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Ophie
Salingerian Phony
Yeah, I saw that the four Tapus were allowed too, looking at the list of eligible Pokémon. This is bizarre.
Maybe they meant "Special Pokémon," as that's the term used in the Battle Spot and the GTS to refer to Mythical Pokémon and Box Legendaries (and other assorted Pokémon related to them, like Cosmog, Mewtwo, and Zygarde).
Trainer Yusuf
VolcaniNO
Lesser legendaries and legendary-esque Pokémon like Type:Null-line are now considered sub-legendaries.
XXD17
Draco rex
Tapus and ultra beasts are legendaries on the same level as moltres, articuno, uxie, raikou, etc. They've always been allowed in general competition. The banned ones are just uber legendaries and event legendaries.
Ophie
Salingerian Phony
Is that so? That's interesting to know.
I know they've always been allowed. It's just that these wi-fi competitions have additional restrictions, so I thought it wouldn't allow the Tapus as such either.
R_N
Well-Known Member
It's interesting to see what bank marks with the holofoil legendary effect and what it doesn't. Manaphy gets it as a mythical but Phione has no foil effect at all, the tapu & UB get special foil effects in SM (though different from "legendary" marked pokemon) but nothing special in bank.
poor phione cant even get mythical rating
poor phione cant even get mythical rating
Trainer Yusuf
VolcaniNO
https://twitter.com/SciresM/status/799324958770032641
Forgot to post this, but Phione dispute is resolved, sort of, it is now considered a Mythical.
(It actually has always been considered a Legendary since Gen V changed base EXPs for Pokémon and put them in a formula, but hey, here's more evidence to you.)
That said though, I don't consider these classifications due to lore and mechanical reasons, but if you want their internal considerations, this is it.
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