Legendaries Discussion Thread

[RedJirachi]

Because of plot convenience. How else would Lillie move it as she's not a trainer?
In the anime, Ash carried a Larvitar.... and in Diamond/Pearl had a Hippopotas on his head!

Clearly Ash has superstrength

 

[Ophie]

Clearly Ash has superstrength

Ash also has super electrical resistance due to Pikachu, an extremely electrically charged thing, often sitting on his head and Ash not turning into a living ground cable.

 

[Skeithwannabe]

So Getting into Necrozma again. I agree that it has no direct connection to the cosmog line...unless it is somehow a unique stone evolution that uses and key item instead of a regular evolution stone which I highly doubt. Though aesthetically it has connections to all three of the Legendary groups of alola Tapu's: It seems to have the potential to turn into a dragon head. UBs: Strange Design. Box: Symbol and Music. Though admittedly my favorite theory I heard is Necrozma Somehow fuses with Solgaleo and Lunala to turn into a Manticor.

 

[BCVM22]

So Getting into Necrozma again. I agree that it has no direct connection to the cosmog line...unless it is somehow a unique stone evolution that uses and key item instead of a regular evolution stone which I highly doubt.

Unless a Cosmoem in the next Alola game(s) evolves into Necrozma, as it already does to Solgaleo in Sun and Lunala in Moon.

 

[Skeithwannabe]

The Other Idea I had for Necrozma is that there are 2 Necrozma but we've only seen one of them currently the "one" being the Necrozma that forms the "True" Necrozma's Head, Arms, and Legs with the Other Forming its Body, Tail , and Maybe Wings

 

[BCVM22]

That wouldn't make any sense, though. You can't have them be two distinct Pokémon - they'd have to be Formes. And if that were the case, it wouldn't make a ton of sense for one of them to be "head forme" and the other be "body forme". And there's nothing overly draconic about Necrozma to begin with.

It's best to assume that whatever ideas we have about Necrozma are wrong, aside from what's plainly obvious.

 

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Wow I didn't see the Lunala twist happening
Well done GF well done so many risks and they've paid off.

 

[Hero of Truth]

After so much thought, I have the right idea on why Type: Null/Silvally are legendaries. They have their lore, Silvally has the same BST as the Tapus and the UBs and is an artificial Arceus, but people still complain they aren't legendaries because of their National Dex number. Check their National Pokedex and Tapu Koko's. (772/773 and 785). People argue that because of Null's/Silvally's Dex placement they can't be legends but actually they are. In fact, people forget there's a group of legends that has pulled the same stunt before in the past, with regular Pokémon in between legends. And they are some classic monsters as well...

Yes... the very first Legendary trio, Articuno, Zapdos and Moltres.

Their National Dex numbers are 144, 145 and 146 respectively. The next legendary is Mewtwo on number 150. The legends are separated here with the Dragon-type Dratini line (a regular Pokémon line), which also seems to be the case with Type: Null/Silvally (The Dragon type Jangmo-o line is between them and Tapu Koko in the National Dex), except with more Pokémon in the mix, which interestingly are non-evo Pokémon. I think GF pulled another reference to Gen I, albeit a minor one and not easily recognizable, because of the non-evo Pokémon being present there, probably thrown there to outsmart us. And it can also work as a reverse one if we take Silvally/Null as reference to Mewtwo since they are both artificial with an extended lore. They probably wanted to go for something unique and a neat reference at the same time and it worked. Bravo GF, bravo. You fooled us all, once again, I admit it.

 

[goodpeople25]

Uh the beasts did the same thing, but both cases are the pseudo-legend lines which makes sense to be after the regular legends as they has more BST at the final stage. (Might be a coincidence but in the 1st gen even the birds were in order of their slightly different BST) It's more that where the Pseudo goes on the dex has changed (more legends likely had something to do with it as well, and continuing the dex in order of power after the weaker legends as a rule would be awkward with slaking)

I'm open to the idea of them being considered legends, but this dosen't really mean anything.

 

[Mrs. Oreo]

Well in some cultures, the Sun is thought to represent masculine energy, while the Moon is thought to represent feminine energy. So since Solgaleo = Sun and Lunala = Moon, that could be why.

I've always thought of Lunala as being more feminine than Solgaleo any ways, so maybe Gamefreak purposely designed Lunala that way. I was surprised when I learned that Cosmog and Cosmoem were the pre-evolved forms of Solgaleo and Lunala however. I didn't think we'd ever see legendaries that could evolve. ^^;

 

[Wryteous]

After so much thought, I have the right idea on why Type: Null/Silvally are legendaries. They have their lore, Silvally has the same BST as the Tapus and the UBs and is an artificial Arceus, but people still complain they aren't legendaries because of their National Dex number. Check their National Pokedex and Tapu Koko's. (772/773 and 785). People argue that because of Null's/Silvally's Dex placement they can't be legends but actually they are. In fact, people forget there's a group of legends that has pulled the same stunt before in the past, with regular Pokémon in between legends. And they are some classic monsters as well...

All people need to do is view the pokedex background when selecting Null/Silvally to see what it is.
Regular pokemon are Blue. Minor Legendaries are Green. And Major(Title) legendaries and Mythical pokemon are Gold. Null and Silvally are green, as are Ultra Beasts. So they fall into the same catergory as the Birds, Beasts, Golems, Spirit, Djinn and Musketeers- plus others.

 

[Hero of Truth]

All people need to do is view the pokedex background when selecting Null/Silvally to see what it is.
Regular pokemon are Blue. Minor Legendaries are Green. And Major(Title) legendaries and Mythical pokemon are Gold. Null and Silvally are green, as are Ultra Beasts. So they fall into the same catergory as the Birds, Beasts, Golems, Spirit, Djinn and Musketeers- plus others.

Unfortunately, people seem to try to deny that UBs, the Tapus and Null/Silvally are legends just because of lack of official word on the matter. But none of them gets into the trouble to think 'do we really need to have an official word?' The signs are already there (the Pokedex colors), and they're official! Sigh.

Truth is something all people want and search for, but if it doesn't suit them, they immediately try to label it as a lie. Humanity in a nutshell.

 

[Tropios]

Unfortunately, people seem to try to deny that UBs, the Tapus and Null/Silvally are legends just because of lack of official word on the matter. But none of them gets into the trouble to think 'do we really need to have an official word?' The signs are already there (the Pokedex colors), and they're official! Sigh.

Truth is something all people want and search for, but if it doesn't suit them, they immediately try to label it as a lie. Humanity in a nutshell.

Well I'd say trying to force traditional formats on something new to make it understandable is humanity in a nutshell as well.

Honestly, this gen changes up so much, why do the ultra beasts NEED to be classified under one of the categories that previous gens determined? Why would that be more logical than them being an entirely new category? I think GF probably cares less about how we identify UB's and Type: Null than we do.

 

[Bus]

I wouldn't really classify the Ultra Beasts as Legends either. I mean, they're normal pokemon from their dimension; they're just super strong (legend-worthy) in the main Pokemon Universe. The Kokos though, since they're Guardian Deities, that should be enough to be classified as Legends in my eyes. As for Type: Null...I dont know; I'd say its not a Legend since it was manufactured/created....but so was Mewtwo & Magearna so....I don't know. It's meant to be an Ultra Beast slayer on par with Arceus, so...I guess technically yes? I mean, Mewtwo was created to be the strongest Pokemon so I suppose Silvally can be a Legend too. Its hard to classify, really.

The ultra beasts though, I definitely don't think they should be considered 'Legendary' Pokemon at all. From the looks of that other world, Nihelgo seem to be everywhere; there was a whole colony of them when they went to that world; the rest are probably the same (except for maybe Guzzlord...he does have 'lord' in his name and there's only one of him found). The rest of them have multiple; like 4 Phermosa, so its clear that there are multiple (and plenty) of them in their natural world and since that whole landscape evolved differently without the presence of humans, they just happen to be much stronger than anything the traditional Pokemon world has seen/is aware of.

 

[Bowlbasaur]

The only reason why I'm not quick to jump on the idea of calling UBs Legendaries is because of the multiples you get of certain ones. However, they certainly have the look and feel of Legendaries, so I am torn.

 

[Wednesdayz]

The only reason why I'm not quick to jump on the idea of calling UBs Legendaries is because of the multiples you get of certain ones. However, they certainly have the look and feel of Legendaries, so I am torn.

I assumed that they were Legendaries this whole time. :x Btw, what are the Island Guardians classified as?

 

[Sαpphire]

I would hesitate to call Ultra Beasts and Silvally "Legendary." The former are explicitly differentiated from Legendary species both in name and in context; there can be many more than one, and they're assumed to be "typical" Pokemon from Ultra Space. Necrozma, for example, is without a doubt the third Legendary for Alola, and it's explicitly stated to be not an Ultra Beast, but simply "reminiscent" of them according to its Sun dex entry; this mirrors the nature of the box Legends, which are also presumed to be from Ultra Space but are distinct from the other Ultra Beasts in power and function, and thus designated as Legendary. Essentially, an Ultra Beast or something else from Ultra Space can be legendary, but not all are.

With regard to Silvally, it simply lacks all lore and context relating to its status as legendary. The only artificial Pokemon to be considered Legendary is Mewtwo; the only one to be considered Mythical is Magearna. Mewtwo notably has significantly higher base stats and is assumed to be unique in that there's only one per "in-game" universe, ie. one per cartridge in which it is obtainable. Magearna simply adheres to all previous concept of Mythicals and is also officially designated as such. Silvally carries notable distinctions from these two; first, it is based on a Mythical Pokemon but unlike Mewtwo does not share its predecessor's DNA or exceed its predecessor's stats; second, it has a base stat total only shared by one group of legendaries, the Guardian Deities also introduced in this generation; third, there are known to be at least three within the in-game world, two of which are seen during gameplay; fourth, it is part of an evolutionary line, which among Legendaries is unique to the Alolan box Legends (and maybe Manaphy in a more limited sense given its breeding traits). As such, Silvally is far more similar to Pokemon like Porygon-Z.

While I understand that certain things are stated within the game's code, I have to agree that this is something we were absolutely never meant to see. It's not like a datamine that uncovers all the things that we will get later, like Mythicals and other content - that's meant to be directly observed at a later date. Classification within the structure of the games' data is unlike that in that it's intentionally hidden and has no direct impact on actual gameplay. Furthermore, I have to also note that Game Freak and The Pokemon Company tend to explicitly define a Legendary as such in promotional material upon reveal, except for cases like that of Necrozma for which they obviously have some interest in keeping its status a mystery (even though they messed up and literally included "thirdlegendary" in its image URL).

There might be code, but there's no context, no precedent, and no official designation.

 

[XXD17]

I wouldn't really classify the Ultra Beasts as Legends either. I mean, they're normal pokemon from their dimension; they're just super strong (legend-worthy) in the main Pokemon Universe. The Kokos though, since they're Guardian Deities, that should be enough to be classified as Legends in my eyes. As for Type: Null...I dont know; I'd say its not a Legend since it was manufactured/created....but so was Mewtwo & Magearna so....I don't know. It's meant to be an Ultra Beast slayer on par with Arceus, so...I guess technically yes? I mean, Mewtwo was created to be the strongest Pokemon so I suppose Silvally can be a Legend too. Its hard to classify, really.

The ultra beasts though, I definitely don't think they should be considered 'Legendary' Pokemon at all. From the looks of that other world, Nihelgo seem to be everywhere; there was a whole colony of them when they went to that world; the rest are probably the same (except for maybe Guzzlord...he does have 'lord' in his name and there's only one of him found). The rest of them have multiple; like 4 Phermosa, so its clear that there are multiple (and plenty) of them in their natural world and since that whole landscape evolved differently without the presence of humans, they just happen to be much stronger than anything the traditional Pokemon world has seen/is aware of.

Lore-wise, there has always been multiple individuals of one legendary species...the latis, the birds, the beasts, the genies, genesect and even even mewtwo are just some of them...some are just rarer than others...uniqueness is no longer a contingency for legendary status. Furthermore, "legendary" is a term coined in our world so it is undepebdrnt of otherworldly status...if it turns out that there are actually swarms of celebi in other dimensions, will it cease to be legendary?

 

[Sαpphire]

Lore-wise, there has always been multiple individuals of one legendary species...the latis, the birds, the beasts, the genies, genesect and even even mewtwo are just some of them...some are just rarer than others...uniqueness is no longer a contingency for legendary status. Furthermore, "legendary" is a term coined in our world so it is undepebdrnt of otherworldly status...if it turns out that there are actually swarms of celebi in other dimensions, will it cease to be legendary?

I don't think there's been game-universe confirmation of all of those species having multiple iterations. The anime has explicitly stated as such, yes, but that's an entirely separate continuity. I can't off the top of my head recall any in-game confirmation of any of those species existing in plural. Their presence in multiple games and regions can be attributed to just making them more accessible to players without multiple games, more than to the existence of multiple.

 

[Azery]

I feel like Silvally is in that line right between legendary/non-legendary. It has numerous characteristics that are the same as those of legendaries before it such as Mewtwo, but there's things that make it more of a regular Pokemon too. I'd put it right along with Phione in that category honestly.