Legendary Pokémon Thread v2

[Ib4]

The devices (ring, glove, etc.) used to "focus" remind me of a radio transmitter in regards to their ability to interact with the stones. It seems to me the stone acts as a simplified satellite picking up the radiation waves from the device, in which the bond between trainer and pokemon is a sort of catalyst to streamline the transmission process. Perhaps the radiation emitted by human and pokemon are a vital part of the process only in regards to their ability to enhance the connection between stone and device. In essence the natural capacity for interaction between stone and device is distorted and therefore difficult or impossible to function without the assistance of the bond. The biggest mystery to me in this case is why this particular variety of stone with natural radiation-absorption properties seems to only appear in Kalos. Incidentally this likely connects with the stones in the Geosenge area, which also seem to have some way of reacting to electromagnetic properties of pokemon or Lysandre's device. Perhaps the stone obelisks are geodes of some kind and the mega-stones are parts of the internal crystalline formation common in geodes, with slightly different crystalline patterns reacting to different pokemon bonds in their roles as catalysts.

 

[Ruas]

Isn't Fuji and Blaine creating Mewtwo exclusive to the anime and Adventures/Special canons respectively?

It has been hinted throughout the games. Fuji & Blaine are friends - there was a photo of them in the Cinnabar Gym, I believe. There is also a message in Faraway Island, whose author isn't 100% confirmed, but Mr. Fuji is the closest fit. Perhaps the Pokemon Lab too has a few brief references.

Also according to the games Mega Evolution has been known about for a very long time, so not all the Mega Stones are going to have been artificially created.

This was just my idea of the story will be before the XY games were released. I didn't think much about the cover legendaries, but thought Mewtwo would be significant to the plot. Clearly wrong.

 

[Goodraman]

I am still sad mewtwo did not get any backstory for pokemon x and y. what backstory would you guys have given mewtwo?

i thought this mewtwo is THE mewtwo, as in the one from the movie and ceurelean cave, kanto got so crowded, and when people started to try and find it, mewtwo fled to another country, preferably to a place where little to no humans will ever reach. that is where wulric and the pokevillage come in. if we can assume fuji and blaine were the two head scientists in charge of the mewtwo project, then i can assume that they had penpals in other countries. i don't know about you, but i can see fuji and wulfric being bingo buddies. mewtwo picked up on where that is, and decided to flee to the village that wulfrictends to, the same village full of pokemon that have been hurt or abandoned by their trainers. finally feeling safe, it took refuge in the cave, and wulfric leaves some food for it every now and then, in an attempt to build a friendship with mewtwo, the pokemon that was used for destruction.

 

[ritukurien]

First of all, I'm sorry if this isn't the right thread, I'm a bit confused. So, I just caught a Xerneas with a quiet nature. I'm pretty new to IVs and EVs so I'm not sure what to make of it's stats, so if you could help me out, here are the stats for my Xerneas:

Nature: Quiet
Characteristic: Likes to thrash about
Hp: 199
A: 155
D: 116
SpA: 169
SpD: 119
Speed: 108

Thoughts?

 

[PearlDex]

I think people worry too much over the canon of the games, especially in reference to the legendaries, and even more especially since the protagonst's story is completely different in both games. The only time the protagonist of any game has been "nailed down" was Red in Gold & Silver and, you know what? I used exactly ONE of those 6 pokemon when I played Red. Who is to say Red ever caught or, heck, even SAW Mewtwo? Mewtwo fled Cinnibar Island, now it could be anywhere. If Red had Zapdos, Moltres, Articuno, and Mewtwo, wouldn't he feel like using them in his (seemingly) final battle?

Legendaries are there for fun. They repeat to let people who missed them before catch them again (how many people were complaining earlier in this thread that there needs to be a Jirachi or Victini event?). The only part of the canon that carries over is your protagonist does stop the villain and beat the Elite Four. How and when and what pokemon they met is always left a mystery because it isn't the same for any of us. The post-game legendaries, to me, feel more like people telling their own legends in the region "and then the great Red found a Zapdos in the power plant and captured it!" Otherwise, wouldn't SOMEBODY mention "Not only did Gold beat Team Rocket, did you SEE his Ho-oh?!"

What drives this home for me, and makes sure I don't lose sleep over pokemon video game canon, is the protagonist in Black. I kept being told all through Black2 what a great guy he was, thank heavens he saved us, etc. Ummmmmmmmmmmm if he's such a huge hero, where the heck was he when a city was frozen in ice? In fact, everyone is saved by Black's VILLAIN, which is a little twisted when you think about it.

 

[MuhFugginMoose]

First of all, I'm sorry if this isn't the right thread, I'm a bit confused. So, I just caught a Xerneas with a quiet nature. I'm pretty new to IVs and EVs so I'm not sure what to make of it's stats, so if you could help me out, here are the stats for my Xerneas:

Nature: Quiet
Characteristic: Likes to thrash about
Hp: 199
A: 155
D: 116
SpA: 169
SpD: 119
Speed: 108

Thoughts?

Quiet will never be a good nature on Xerneas, regardless of IVs.

Also, those stats are impossible at lvl 50 with no EV investment, so there's no way for anyone to know its IVs.

 

[Endolise]

I think people worry too much over the canon of the games

Or maybe it isn't them "worrying" about it so much as it is that they're just passionate and interested in the topic and enjoy discussing it?

Who is to say Red ever caught or, heck, even SAW Mewtwo? Mewtwo fled Cinnibar Island, now it could be anywhere.

Well considering that we find it in Cerulean Cave, chances are that it fled to Cerulean Cave, which is supposed to be those games' grand final dungeon reward for beating the Elite Four, which Red does. Logic can fill in the rest.

If Red had Zapdos, Moltres, Articuno, and Mewtwo, wouldn't he feel like using them in his (seemingly) final battle?

Not necessarily. Maybe he doesn't have the same bond with those Pokémon as he does the ones he trained on his own over the course of his journey. Maybe he just doesn't like using Legendary Pokémon (tons of real players don't, so it's not unfeasible). Or maybe he only ever battled them and didn't catch them at all.

Otherwise, wouldn't SOMEBODY mention "Not only did Gold beat Team Rocket, did you SEE his Ho-oh?!"

I don't recall very many people being present for the battle against Archer, which takes place before you can capture Ho-Oh anyway.

And even if he does catch one, what's that going to change? Anyone who hears about it will either a) not believe it or b) believe and and probably think, "wow, that's cool stuff"...

... and then what? He caught a rare and powerful Pokémon. Good for him.

What drives this home for me, and makes sure I don't lose sleep over pokemon video game canon, is the protagonist in Black. I kept being told all through Black2 what a great guy he was, thank heavens he saved us, etc. Ummmmmmmmmmmm if he's such a huge hero, where the heck was he when a city was frozen in ice? In fact, everyone is saved by Black's VILLAIN, which is a little twisted when you think about it.

Not if he/she was, I don't know, further away from the region than N and couldn't make it in time? No, let's ignore that perfectly possible solution and deem them a villain by presumed inaction.

Also, N very clearly and pointedly turned away from villainy at the end of BW.

 

[Hexin' Wishes]

YAAS Endolise!

But to piggyback on the last point:
I would agree that the protagonist in the first BW wasn't there in the region.

N wasn't really a villain per se, he was more of misguided and naive face. I guess what I'm trying to say is that N was more of a tool and Ghestis was the main villain of it all.

 

[PearlDex]

Well considering that we find it in Cerulean Cave, chances are that it fled to Cerulean Cave, which is supposed to be those games' grand final dungeon reward for beating the Elite Four, which Red does. Logic can fill in the rest.

This is exactly my point, though... well, except for the logic part. Logic does not fill in Pokémon canon otherwise there would be nothing to discuss. Sure, we get to encounter Mewtwo it in the game, but once you beat the Elite 4, the in-game canon tends to stop. Nobody ever mentions what the heroes of the games do after they leave. Basically, the story ends. So Mewtwo being in Cerulean Cave and the Pokémon village doesn't really matter since the canon's "version" of Red never really needs Red to have met Mewtwo. It doesn't change the story at all since he's only ever referred to as the trainer who beat Team Rocket and the Elite Four.

I don't recall very many people being present for the battle against Archer, which takes place before you can capture Ho-Oh anyway.

And even if he does catch one, what's that going to change? Anyone who hears about it will either a) not believe it or b) believe and and probably think, "wow, that's cool stuff"...

... and then what? He caught a rare and powerful Pokémon. Good for him.

The NPCs tend to swoon whenever somebody else finds a rare pokemon and they do, occasionally, reference the old heroes' achievements: but meeting the side-legendaries is never on that list of achievements (they will mention climactic box-legend battles, though, since they can't be avoided as part of the game's story). It's preference, but I like to think the old heroes didn't necessarily find those legends. They're there to give the player something to pursue but aren't part of the story.

... and then what? He caught a rare and powerful Pokémon. Good for him.

Not if he/she was, I don't know, further away from the region than N and couldn't make it in time? No, let's ignore that perfectly possible solution and deem them a villain by presumed inaction.

Also, N very clearly and pointedly turned away from villainy at the end of BW

I didn't call Black the villain. I called N the villain. I found it funny people were constantly mentioning the old trainer only to have them not only not make an appearance, but have N step in his place. N may have shrugged off Team Plasma, but he still wasn't "good" and certainly never paid for what he did. He tried making it up to everyone by stopping Ghetsis but in reality just made Ghetsis' Kyurem stronger. Thanks, N.

 

[Hexin' Wishes]

N was never bad. You can be bad and have a "pure and innocent." heart. He was raised by Pokémon for a bit and then raised by Ghestis who fed him trash. He lived a completely sheltered life with Ghestis. N isn't a villain at all.

Or at least he's less of a villain than Silver...

And regarding Legendaries being caught or not, it's quite plausible and makes sense they're not captured but I think they have been encountered.

 

[Endolise]

This is exactly my point, though... well, except for the logic part. Logic does not fill in Pokémon canon otherwise there would be nothing to discuss. Sure, we get to encounter Mewtwo it in the game, but once you beat the Elite 4, the in-game canon tends to stop. Nobody ever mentions what the heroes of the games do after they leave. Basically, the story ends. So Mewtwo being in Cerulean Cave and the Pokémon village doesn't really matter since the canon's "version" of Red never really needs Red to have met Mewtwo. It doesn't change the story at all since he's only ever referred to as the trainer who beat Team Rocket and the Elite Four.

Except the protagonist's primary goal is to complete the Pokédex and meet all kinds of Pokémon. That's why the Professor gives them a Pokédex in the first place. Cerulean Cave is noted to contain excessively powerful Pokémon, but can only be entered by Trainers who have proven themselves. So Red beats the Elite Four, and what's the logical extension of both of those points? Well, he has proven himself by becoming the Champion, and his goal is to meet encounter kinds of Pokémon and collect data on them. It stands to reason that he then explored the Cerulean Cave.

Plus, Mewtwo was put there for a reason. If either of the two encounters warrants being disregarded, it's the one in Kalos. Red encountering Mewtwo is the logical follow-up to Red becoming the Champion; even Pokémon: Origins included it. Mewtwo's presence in Kalos is little more than marketing since it's appearance isn't even explained despite the contradiction between it and previous games.

Regardless, none of this - absolutely none of it - changes the fact that people can be interested in discussing these events as an accepted part of the story without being "worried" about it or "losing sleep" over it. It's just a topic of interest and there's no reason to shut it out just because you're not as enthusiastic about the subject.

The NPCs tend to swoon whenever somebody else finds a rare pokemon and they do, occasionally, reference the old heroes' achievements: but meeting the side-legendaries is never on that list of achievements (they will mention climactic box-legend battles, though, since they can't be avoided as part of the game's story). It's preference, but I like to think the old heroes didn't necessarily find those legends. They're there to give the player something to pursue but aren't part of the story.

But that's my point. They swoon, but it doesn't revolutionize their lives. Other than that, yeah, they're just there for the sake of adding mythology to the region.

I didn't call Black the villain. I called N the villain. I found it funny people were constantly mentioning the old trainer only to have them not only not make an appearance, but have N step in his place. N may have shrugged off Team Plasma, but he still wasn't "good" and certainly never paid for what he did. He tried making it up to everyone by stopping Ghetsis but in reality just made Ghetsis' Kyurem stronger. Thanks, N.

That wasn't N's fault. Ghetsis intentionally lured N to Unova by abusing Kyurem and firing ice missiles into Opelucid City so that he could have Kyurem absofuse with N's dragon. N came because he cared about Kyurem like he cares about any Pokémon, and even after that he dedicated himself to becoming a bridge between people and Pokémon so that they could come to understand each other better. Even the bad things that he did in BW were done because he was misguided and had good intentions. Ghetsis was the villain of the Black and White games; N was his pawn. Everything bad that Team Plasma does can be traced back to Ghetsis, especially since he was the one who created the Team in the first place.

Hildabert were busy looking for N and likely didn't make it to Unova in time to do anything of significance. The time between Ghetsis using Kyurem as a weapon to attack Opelucid and Ghetsis' defeat isn't a terribly wide gap, and N would be quicker to respond anyway since he can communicate directly with his dragon.

 

[PearlDex]

I never said the presence of a legendary revolutionizes their lives, but when one is seen or captured it is mentioned in passing. However, they rarely mention them being caught. (Trevor is one of the few I can think of who claimed to actually own one, besides N/Ghetsis, and the failed attempt by Cyrus). By the same reasoning, Gold's remake makes a beast out of Gold. Not only does he get Ho-Oh, Lugia, and the dogs, but the logical progression of becoming the champion would be to explore the cave, where Mewtwo was hiding. And the birds were there, too. And Groudon/Kyogre, Lati@s, and even Rayquaza if you've got a friend. They're just things to pursue once you beat the game and don't fall into anybody's "timeline," really. The box legends usually do since encountering them is part of the plot of the hero from each game.

As far as N goes, doing the wrong thing for the right reason doesn't make it the right thing. His "redemption" was annoying to me, especially when he just blundered into a trap in B2 and wound up making it harder for the new guys.

Whoops: 2 edits. One, somehow I didn't quote the bits I meant to but I don't think it needs re-adding. Second, it obviously doesn't matter at all, but I think it makes the canon flow together better when the post-plot legends get disregarded.

 

[Hexin' Wishes]

N wasn't "doing the wrong thing for the right reason" he literally thought it was the right thing and when you have a bunch of yes men feeding you drivel, you believe it. N had far less agency in BW than you give him.

 

[Endolise]

I never said the presence of a legendary revolutionizes their lives, but when one is seen or captured it is mentioned in passing. However, they rarely mention them being caught. (Trevor is one of the few I can think of who claimed to actually own one, besides N/Ghetsis, and the failed attempt by Cyrus). By the same reasoning, Gold's remake makes a beast out of Gold. Not only does he get Ho-Oh, Lugia, and the dogs, but the logical progression of becoming the champion would be to explore the cave, where Mewtwo was hiding. And the birds were there, too. And Groudon/Kyogre, Lati@s, and even Rayquaza if you've got a friend. They're just things to pursue once you beat the game and don't fall into anybody's "timeline," really. The box legends usually do since encountering them is part of the plot of the hero from each game.

No, but again, that's only assuming that the protagonist captures them. I did say in my first response that they may have just encountered and battled them (which is what I tend to assume). They very well could have encountered some of the post-game Legendary Pokémon and battled them but failed to capture them, and since a number of those side-quests involve good character points and/or information about the workings of the Pokémon world, I would rather they be included as far as my mind goes.

As far as N goes, doing the wrong thing for the right reason doesn't make it the right thing. His "redemption" was annoying to me, especially when he just blundered into a trap in B2 and wound up making it harder for the new guys.

Wound up making it harder? If it weren't for N, Nate/Rosa and the entire Unova region would be frozen over and Ghetsis would be a massive power in the world. N fell into Ghetsis' trap, but he still helped and contributed majorly to Ghetsis' downfall. Luckily, Nate/Rosa were talented enough to overcome Ghetsis' Black/White Kyurem.

EDIT: Also what Hexin' said.

 

[Aonshinzo]

I refuse to understand why in the game they didn't connect Diancie to the sundial as I'm guessing they obviously are connected somehow (Diancie being it's creator making the most since)...? For a possibly different event? It seems like a such a waist to design such a major feature of the region to just let it sit their with no possible explanation or backstory...meh maybe I'm missing something.

 

[Wulava]

I refuse to understand why in the game they didn't connect Diancie to the sundial as I'm guessing they obviously are connected somehow (Diancie being it's creator making the most since)...? For a possibly different event? It seems like a such a waist to design such a major feature of the region to just let it sit their with no possible explanation or backstory...meh maybe I'm missing something.

The legend of the Anistar Sundial might be explained deeper in the third version/sequel. There are always mysteries left unsolved on the first pair of games.

 

[LittleLadyLeafeon]

I'm sorry if I'm going off the current topic of discussion, but does anyone else feel exhausted by the amount of legendaries and semi-legendaries? I mean honestly, there are so many now and so many films dedicated to them I feel as if a 'Legendary Pokémon' isn't as special as it was before. I mean what's the point in getting to the end to catch a not-so-powerful legendary when you can catch about 10 along the way? I don't know, it all seems a bit too market-y and non-special to me.

 

[Hexin' Wishes]

No. Legendary/Mythical only ever meant "rare", it never meant "unique".

They wouldn't make it so that only 5 people in the world can have a Mythical Pokémon and they're also aware not every player was able to/did get every generation and that's why some reoccur. The anime promotes the game series hence why they use the Mythical Pokémon as a selling point. They've been this way since the first movie.

Besides, each Generation is a new region. Each new region has new mythos as a part of their history thus explaining why there are more Mythical Pokémon than the original five of Gen I. If it doesn't feel special to you then that's on you, but they're not as readily available as, say, Zubat. As of Diancie's reveal, only about 7% of the total Pokémon are Mythical.

What are "semi-legendaries" anyways? The "pseudo-Legendaries" aren't Mythical at all, they just have really good stats.

 

[LittleLadyLeafeon]

Okay well first of all, slow down a little bit. I think you may have been missing the point of my statement.
Of course people can't get EVERY generation, and of course all legendaries should be available to everyone. I agree with you on that. I'm only bothered by the fact that an abundance of legendaries had been added at once. Take Generation IV for example- which added 14 new Mythical Pokémon in one region. I, personally, just see it as a little bit too much. By adding an overwhelming 14 legendaries, and then another whopping 13 in Generation V, it almost seems as if it became common to encounter a legendary. (Which, statistically its not)
I don't know, it just seems unnecessary to have so many. Its kind of hard to explain, since I was just going off emotion in saying it over marketing and gameplay. I have to agree with some of your points, it just doesn't rest well with me that there are 48 legendaries now- and the aspect of a somewhat 'all-mighty' Pokémon has been dimmed in my eyes.

 

[Endolise]

it just doesn't rest well with me that there are 48 legendaries now- and the aspect of a somewhat 'all-mighty' Pokémon has been dimmed in my eyes.

They're still exactly what they were always said to be - rare (achieved via them being limited to one per save file) and powerful (achieved via them having higher stats than most Pokémon).