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Legendary Pokémon Thread v2

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Ruas

Well-Known Member
^ I initially thought that the Mewtwo from Johto (assuming the Johto hero released it - since there is no fun really in having such an over-powered Pokemon) travelled far in search of some way to de-power itself. It perhaps didn't have the heart to disturb Fuji & Blaine again & so trusted itself to some Kalos scientists. Kalos scientists of course couldn't resist using its power. Mewtwo ends up being an inspiration to the scientists to find ways to empower other Pokemons too. This time instead of creating new Pokemons, the managed to create MegaStones that contain the powers.
 

LLR

Vivillon Trader
^ I initially thought that the Mewtwo from Johto (assuming the Johto hero released it - since there is no fun really in having such an over-powered Pokemon) travelled far in search of some way to de-power itself. It perhaps didn't have the heart to disturb Fuji & Blaine again & so trusted itself to some Kalos scientists. Kalos scientists of course couldn't resist using its power. Mewtwo ends up being an inspiration to the scientists to find ways to empower other Pokemons too. This time instead of creating new Pokemons, the managed to create MegaStones that contain the powers.

In my opinion this is would be an excellent way to explain the stones and continue the story.
The only problem is that scientist tend to end up on the villians side.
It would seem to work better in that respect if it were a professor but then Mewtwo's history doesn't fit.
 

PinkiePieFox

Team Flare Grunt
I was a little disappointing in the lack of story between all the legends in X and Y, well maybe not disappointed but confused. Only Yvetal/Xerneas had any story. We have little to go on for Zygarde and hardly know any reason why the kanto legendaries are there. Heck maybe even mew will have an in-game event (there hasn't been a Mew event for years, my Mew is the last one there was) and then there'd be all the Kanto legends, maybe mew's in-game event would explain why Mewtwo was there? Or was Mewtwo placed there just because of the most recent Pokemon movie? I doubt that though...
 

Blackjack the Titan

It’s been a while
I was a little disappointing in the lack of story between all the legends in X and Y, well maybe not disappointed but confused. Only Yvetal/Xerneas had any story. We have little to go on for Zygarde and hardly know any reason why the kanto legendaries are there.

We can only hope for an additional modicum of backstory in a third or sequel game.

Heck maybe even mew will have an in-game event (there hasn't been a Mew event for years, my Mew is the last one there was) and then there'd be all the Kanto legends, maybe mew's in-game event would explain why Mewtwo was there? Or was Mewtwo placed there just because of the most recent Pokemon movie? I doubt that though...
There will always be repeating legendary events with exceptional moves and specified-or-varying natures (i.e. Adamant Celebii from PokeBank).
 

Endolise

TengenToppaBoogaloo
I was a little disappointing in the lack of story between all the legends in X and Y, well maybe not disappointed but confused. Only Yvetal/Xerneas had any story. We have little to go on for Zygarde and hardly know any reason why the kanto legendaries are there. Heck maybe even mew will have an in-game event (there hasn't been a Mew event for years, my Mew is the last one there was) and then there'd be all the Kanto legends, maybe mew's in-game event would explain why Mewtwo was there? Or was Mewtwo placed there just because of the most recent Pokemon movie? I doubt that though...

Pokémon like Zygarde (i.e. the obvious third cover mascot) never get any backstory until their own games come out.

Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres also appeared in Sinnoh for no particular reason; I think we can assume that they just fly around. Or maybe they're just migrating.

I would imagine that Mewtwo came to the Pokémon Village because it is a haven for abused Pokémon, and Mewtwo fits that bill very well. Now, whatever caused it to ditch the Cerulean Cave and come to Kalos isn't clear, but I can see why we found it where we did.
 

Hexin' Wishes

Diva Extraordinaire
I would imagine that Mewtwo came to the Pokémon Village because it is a haven for abused Pokémon, and Mewtwo fits that bill very well. Now, whatever caused it to ditch the Cerulean Cave and come to Kalos isn't clear, but I can see why we found it where we did.

If we want to go with that theory, it probably didn't enjoy being beaten twice (Red/Green, Ethan/Lyra) so it would rather go some place other than where it was.
 

Gampi

ガンピ
^ I initially thought that the Mewtwo from Johto (assuming the Johto hero released it - since there is no fun really in having such an over-powered Pokemon) travelled far in search of some way to de-power itself. It perhaps didn't have the heart to disturb Fuji & Blaine again & so trusted itself to some Kalos scientists. Kalos scientists of course couldn't resist using its power. Mewtwo ends up being an inspiration to the scientists to find ways to empower other Pokemons too. This time instead of creating new Pokemons, the managed to create MegaStones that contain the powers.

This is probably one of the better theories I've seen, though isn't Fuji and Blaine creating Mewtwo exclusive to the anime and Adventures/Special canons respectively? Also according to the games Mega Evolution has been known about for a very long time, so not all the Mega Stones are going to have been artificially created.
 

Gampi

ガンピ
Isn't it that all mega stones were created at that time period?

I fail to see how Mewtwo has two Mega Stones when Mewtwo is an invention of modern science and the Mega Stones have been around even longer. I'm sure the only way for Mewtwonite X and Y to logically exist in my opinion would be if they were created artificially.
 

Hexin' Wishes

Diva Extraordinaire
I fail to see how Mewtwo has two Mega Stones when Mewtwo is an invention of modern science and the Mega Stones have been around even longer. I'm sure the only way for Mewtwonite X and Y to logically exist in my opinion would be if they were created artificially.

A couple of pages back there was a discussion of the possibility of Mewtwos altered genetic code just working with a stone.

There's really a lot of theories available, but it's explicitly stated that all mega stones were created as a result of the unleashed legendary's power which ended the great war.
 

Endolise

TengenToppaBoogaloo
There's really a lot of theories available, but it's explicitly stated that all mega stones were created as a result of the unleashed legendary's power which ended the great war.

Well, not "all" Mega Stones. Just "Mega Stones." There is nothing that says they can't be synthesized. And how would Sycamore even know about Mewtwo in order to consider the possibility that it may have a Mega Stone, or that Mewtwo itself even exists? He was most likely not a part of the Mewtwo project since he would have been a child/pre-teen at the time.
 

Hexin' Wishes

Diva Extraordinaire
Well, not "all" Mega Stones. Just "Mega Stones." There is nothing that says they can't be synthesized. And how would Sycamore even know about Mewtwo in order to consider the possibility that it may have a Mega Stone, or that Mewtwo itself even exists? He was most likely not a part of the Mewtwo project since he would have been a child/pre-teen at the time.

Well, I would think being Pokémon #151 for at least 5 years and being a Pokémon Professor (they do have to go to school for that right?), he would be well aware it exists. I don't recall Professor Sycamore hiding the mega stones for us to find like an Easter egg hunt though, so why would his knowledge of what has a mega stone or doesn't matter in terms of it having one?

There are many possibilities. You could be right, I could be right. I think GameFreak did it that way on purpose.

I don't agree with the theory they can be synthesized though. Mainly because it lessens the importance of the Mortality Duo, if some scientist can make them. I also firmly believe that the X/Y variations are not the cause of "tampering" but are the reactions to the legendary Pokémon's power (Life infused Charizard is Black and half Dragon, while Death infused is slimmer and more aerodynamic).
 

Endolise

TengenToppaBoogaloo
Well, I would think being Pokémon #151 for at least 5 years and being a Pokémon Professor (they do have to go to school for that right?), he would be well aware it exists. I don't recall Professor Sycamore hiding the mega stones for us to find like an Easter egg hunt though, so why would his knowledge of what has a mega stone or doesn't matter in terms of it having one?

But is it ever canonically established that Mewtwo is a thing that people come to know about barring the "Trevor's Mewtwo" oversight? It seems as though neither Red nor Ethan/Lyra ever captured the one in Cerulean Cave (if it is indeed the one that eventually comes to Kalos), which would mean that for those several years in between games, there was still a big, vacant slot in the Pokédex. We can't even claim with certainty that they ever saw a Mew either, so for all we know, the various player characters' Pokédexes are stuck in a perpetual state of incompleteness.

As his knowledge of Mewtwo's Mega Stones is concerned, it matters because if he doesn't know that an artificially-created Pokémon like Mewtwo has a pair of corresponding Mega Stones or even exists at all, then he wouldn't consider the possibility that its Mega Stones could have been synthesized. For all he knows, Mega Stones only exist for natural Pokémon and not artificial ones, and thus, his hypothesis would be undeterred.

I don't agree with the theory they can be synthesized though. Mainly because it lessens the importance of the Mortality Duo, if some scientist can make them.

I meant more in the sense that since the Mega Stones already exist, and since they already contain the energy of Xerneas/Yveltal, all that an expert scientist would have to do would be to find a way to alter to properties of any given Mega Stone in order to make it react to Mewtwo's genetic code instead of that Stone's natural correspondent. Or, said scientist could just find a way to transfer Xerneas'/Yveltal's energy into a synthesized Mega Stone (if it even had to be synthesized at all; Sycamore did put forth the theory that the stones that became Mega Stones were originally regular evolutionary stones). And we can assume that there is at least some kind of technological component to the Mega Evolution process, as those Mega Rings/Charms/Gloves/etc. are most likely manufactured.

I also firmly believe that the X/Y variations are not the cause of "tampering" but are the reactions to the legendary Pokémon's power (Life infused Charizard is Black and half Dragon, while Death infused is slimmer and more aerodynamic).

That is a very interesting theory; I hadn't thought of that before. Personally, I just figured that it was a natural extension of branch evolutions in that only certain Pokémon had branch Mega Evolutions, but your theory has quite a bit more flavor to it. I would ask how a Charizardite Y could have become infused with Yveltal's power of Destruction in X even though Xerneas was most likely used as the battery during AZ's time in that version of the story, but as it is, the plot and function of the weapon itself already make it clear that their powers are really just two sides of the same coin.
 

Hexin' Wishes

Diva Extraordinaire
But is it ever canonically established that Mewtwo is a thing that people come to know about barring the "Trevor's Mewtwo" oversight? It seems as though neither Red nor Ethan/Lyra ever captured the one in Cerulean Cave (if it is indeed the one that eventually comes to Kalos), which would mean that for those several years in between games, there was still a big, vacant slot in the Pokédex. We can't even claim with certainty that they ever saw a Mew either, so for all we know, the various player characters' Pokédexes are stuck in a perpetual state of incompleteness.

Well, I was under the assumption that the Pokédex is something given from a Professor to a young trainer they can trust to gather data on what's available in the region. I don't believe everyone has one but considering the National Dex is an upgrade, I'd assume that the Pokémon Professors would know about the prior data (and be retconned to know of even more as in the case of FRLG/HGSS) of other regions. Unless the Pokémon Professors are a bunch of uneducated hacks.

I do believe that someone encountered those Pokémon even if they canonically weren't caught.

As his knowledge of Mewtwo's Mega Stones is concerned, it matters because if he doesn't know that an artificially-created Pokémon like Mewtwo has a pair of corresponding Mega Stones or even exists at all, then he wouldn't consider the possibility that its Mega Stones could have been synthesized. For all he knows, Mega Stones only exist for natural Pokémon and not artificial ones, and thus, his hypothesis would be undeterred.

Ahh, I get you know.

I meant more in the sense that since the Mega Stones already exist, and since they already contain the energy of Xerneas/Yveltal, all that an expert scientist would have to do would be to find a way to alter to properties of any given Mega Stone in order to make it react to Mewtwo's genetic code instead of that Stone's natural correspondent. Or, said scientist could just find a way to transfer Xerneas'/Yveltal's energy into a synthesized Mega Stone (if it even had to be synthesized at all; Sycamore did put forth the theory that the stones that became Mega Stones were originally regular evolutionary stones). And we can assume that there is at least some kind of technological component to the Mega Evolution process, as those Mega Rings/Charms/Gloves/etc. are most likely manufactured.

That's a good solid theory. But, considering Mewtwo's genetic code is already tampered with, who's to say Mewtwo's tampered DNA isn't why it reacts to the stone?

The device itself is manufactured but it requires the key stone in order to trigger it. To me, the device is nothing more than a holder/fashion statement. Think of it like a cellphone clip, is the clip what allows you to text/make calls or is it the phone it holds?

That is a very interesting theory; I hadn't thought of that before. Personally, I just figured that it was a natural extension of branch evolutions in that only certain Pokémon had branch Mega Evolutions, but your theory has quite a bit more flavor to it. I would ask how a Charizardite Y could have become infused with Yveltal's power of Destruction in X even though Xerneas was most likely used as the battery during AZ's time in that version of the story, but as it is, the plot and function of the weapon itself already make it clear that their powers are really just two sides of the same coin.

Simple: X & Y are essentially two different timelines with the same situation that can "cross-over" with each other (which was something I thought about all prior paired versions but was sorta confirmed by the messages at Lumiose City). So the legendary acting as a battery for the weapon in the respective version are what power up the stones and the stone is what makes the specific Pokémon react. Most of them are the same between the two legendarys, but for Charizard and Mewtwo the Life/Death power of the stone affects them differently. So bringing a Charizardite Y into X doesn't turn it into a Charizardite X, it remains powered by Yveltal from the Y reality and thus allows it to transform into Mega Charizard Y even in X.

Even simpler: The pokémon with branched Megas react to the stone that was changed and charged by a specific legendary, so their formes are a reaction of that.
It would also sort of explain why Mega Houndoom reacts only to a stone infused with Death...
 

Endolise

TengenToppaBoogaloo
Well, I was under the assumption that the Pokédex is something given from a Professor to a young trainer they can trust to gather data on what's available in the region. I don't believe everyone has one but considering the National Dex is an upgrade, I'd assume that the Pokémon Professors would know about the prior data (and be retconned to know of even more as in the case of FRLG/HGSS) of other regions. Unless the Pokémon Professors are a bunch of uneducated hacks.

I do believe that someone encountered those Pokémon even if they canonically weren't caught.

You make a good point. It's late, so I'm not at my sharpest right now, but it is indeed entirely possible that Red and/or Ethan/Lyra encountered Mewtwo, but failed to capture it (in fact, as you suggested, that could be what drove Mewtwo out of Cerulean Cave and caused it to relocate to Kalos). If that were the case, then there would be Dex data on Mewtwo, albeit incomplete data. But still, it would be enough to make its existence known, and then Professor Oak/Elm would probably publish a paper on it or something in order to share that data with the scientific community.

That's a good solid theory. But, considering Mewtwo's genetic code is already tampered with, who's to say Mewtwo's tampered DNA isn't why it reacts to the stone?
Hmm. Well, that's certainly a possibility. Actually, we don't even know for sure that any Pokémon's genetic code is what the Mega Stones react to. I just assumed that to be the case because it seemed the most likely, and if some scientist wanted to create the most powerful Pokémon there could be and decided to give it the ability to Mega Evolve, I imagine that they would try to find whatever it is that keys in the Mega Stones to a particular species of Pokémon and then modify one in order to match their creation.

The device itself is manufactured but it requires the key stone in order to trigger it. To me, the device is nothing more than a holder/fashion statement. Think of it like a cellphone clip, is the clip what allows you to text/make calls or is it the phone it holds?

That's what I thought at first, but Gurkinn says in XY that he only has one Mega Ring at the time of your's and Serena's challenge. If it were just a "clip," then his lack of another Mega Ring would be irrelevant and he would just need to give you the Key Stone (which, oddly enough, is mentioned only once over the course of the entire story, and not even by name). Furthermore, the item description of the Mega Ring states that it contains an "untold power" that enables a Pokémon to Mega Evolve, and it is shown in the post-game that the Mega Ring is capable of being upgraded when the player comes into contact with the Anistar Sundial after being exposed to the energies of Xerneas/Yveltal in Team Flare's headquarters. So evidently the Mega Ring is far more than just a container for the Key Stone and is likewise a crucial element of the equation.

That being said, however, it does seem as though whoever is manufacturing them is doing so without fully understanding what it is that makes them tick. Or perhaps the pioneer of Mega Evolution was the one who originally devised the design of the Mega Ring and recorded it in a journal or something.

Simple: X & Y are essentially two different timelines with the same situation that can "cross-over" with each other (which was something I thought about all prior paired versions but was sorta confirmed by the messages at Lumiose City). So the legendary acting as a battery for the weapon in the respective version are what power up the stones and the stone is what makes the specific Pokémon react. Most of them are the same between the two legendarys, but for Charizard and Mewtwo the Life/Death power of the stone affects them differently. So bringing a Charizardite Y into X doesn't turn it into a Charizardite X, it remains powered by Yveltal from the Y reality and thus allows it to transform into Mega Charizard Y even in X.

Even simpler: The pokémon with branched Megas react to the stone that was changed and charged by a specific legendary, so their formes are a reaction of that.
It would also sort of explain why Mega Houndoom reacts only to a stone infused with Death...

Ah, yes, of course. I completely forgot that the Mewtwonites/Charizardites are version-exclusive. That would explain why Charizardite Y Stones don't exist in the X timeline; the stones that became Charizardites were never exposed to Yveltal's energies at all. :p
 

Hexin' Wishes

Diva Extraordinaire
Hmm. Well, that's certainly a possibility. Actually, we don't even know for sure that any Pokémon's genetic code is what the Mega Stones react to. I just assumed that to be the case because it seemed the most likely, and if some scientist wanted to create the most powerful Pokémon there could be and decided to give it the ability to Mega Evolve, I imagine that they would try to find whatever it is that keys in the Mega Stones to a particular species of Pokémon and then modify one in order to match their creation.

Very good point. And if we go by my own theory about the 'dex, it's quite acceptable to assume that Mega evolution was also something the other pokémon professors know about as well (granted, it would be Sycamore's specialty) which could have inspired the scientists researching how to make a powerful pokémon...

But then does that mean, if we believe this is the Kanto Mewtwo, that in Gen I/II and their remakes, this Mewtwo held it's Mega stone all along? It doesn't activate it in battle here either so I guess so...

That's what I thought at first, but Gurkinn says in XY that he only has one Mega Ring at the time of your's and Serena's challenge. If it were just a "clip," then his lack of another Mega Ring would be irrelevant and he would just need to give you the Key Stone (which, oddly enough, is mentioned only once over the course of the entire story, and not even by name). Furthermore, the item description of the Mega Ring states that it contains an "untold power" that enables a Pokémon to Mega Evolve, and it is shown in the post-game that the Mega Ring is capable of being upgraded when the player comes into contact with the Anistar Sundial after being exposed to the energies of Xerneas/Yveltal in Team Flare's headquarters. So evidently the Mega Ring is far more than just a container for the Key Stone and is likewise a crucial element of the equation.

That being said, however, it does seem as though whoever is manufacturing them is doing so without fully understanding what it is that makes them tick. Or perhaps the pioneer of Mega Evolution was the one who originally devised the design of the Mega Ring and recorded it in a journal or something.

Ahhh! I forgot that. Well then I guess the Mega Ring/Charm/Glove/Etc are far more essential than I thought. Which is kind of...odd though if it is truly about the bond between trainer and pokémon and these two stones, why does a device need to be used? lol What kind of special properties does ths device have?
 

LLR

Vivillon Trader
Very good point. And if we go by my own theory about the 'dex, it's quite acceptable to assume that Mega evolution was also something the other pokémon professors know about as well (granted, it would be Sycamore's specialty) which could have inspired the scientists researching how to make a powerful pokémon...

But then does that mean, if we believe this is the Kanto Mewtwo, that in Gen I/II and their remakes, this Mewtwo held it's Mega stone all along? It doesn't activate it in battle here either so I guess so...



Ahhh! I forgot that. Well then I guess the Mega Ring/Charm/Glove/Etc are far more essential than I thought. Which is kind of...odd though if it is truly about the bond between trainer and pokémon and these two stones, why does a device need to be used? lol What kind of special properties does ths device have?

Maybe the purpose of the device that holds the stones is to increas the area of skin contact. The stones themselves may be more of lens that focus energy in such a way as to allow mega evolution. What if the trainer and pokemon can only hold the focus for so long, could be the reason that it is only temporary.
 

Endolise

TengenToppaBoogaloo
Very good point. And if we go by my own theory about the 'dex, it's quite acceptable to assume that Mega evolution was also something the other pokémon professors know about as well (granted, it would be Sycamore's specialty) which could have inspired the scientists researching how to make a powerful pokémon...

But then does that mean, if we believe this is the Kanto Mewtwo, that in Gen I/II and their remakes, this Mewtwo held it's Mega stone all along? It doesn't activate it in battle here either so I guess so...

It certainly could have. As you say, it doesn't Mega Evolve during the Kalos battle either (and I thiiiiiiiink it doesn't actually register its Mega Stone as a held item during the battle as well?), so it could have been holding it. The lack of a Trainer with which it has bonded probably has something to do with that. Maybe the scientists who created it were looking to control it themselves. If they could have kept it in a controlled environment, they could have facilitated some kind of bond between it and them.

Ahhh! I forgot that. Well then I guess the Mega Ring/Charm/Glove/Etc are far more essential than I thought. Which is kind of...odd though if it is truly about the bond between trainer and pokémon and these two stones, why does a device need to be used? lol What kind of special properties does ths device have?

The Mega Ring and Key Stone were said to work in tandem in order to convert the feelings between a Trainer and their Pokémon into a kind of communicable wavelength that the Mega Stone can pick up on. The bond between a Trainer and their Pokémon must be strong, and if it is sufficiently strong, the Mega Ring can facilitate the conversion of that bond though the Key Stone into a wavelength that the Pokémon's Mega Stone can detect and interpret as a signal to initiate the Mega Evolution. This process was also compared to how the large pink stone in Anistar City converts sunlight into a "mysterious light" that the Anistar Sundial can pick up on and transmit to an upgraded Mega Ring, thereby enabling it to track Mega Stones.

All very mysterious and fascinating, this stuff is.
 
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