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Let’s talk about something else: how did you feel about Contests in AG?

Bendicion

Water Master
I really did not like how the contests in AG were only about strength and power instead of the beauty and grace of showcasing off your pokemon. That’s the true point of contests. Brute and strength power is for normal battles. That’s why May lost against Solidad, and if May continues battling like that in contests she will never be a top coordinator.
 

Sham

The Guardian of War
I did like how the anime adapted Contests into the anime. Despite Pokémon having a later incarnation of Contests that’s more “faithful” I think goals not involving battling need to be done very delicately because most viewers watch Pokémon for the battles. Removing an aspect of that can take away the lure of the series. That being said I think it’s dishonest to say that anyone could win Contests by brute force. If this was the case Ash would of defeated Zoey with Aipom or gotten farther in the Wallace Cup. It takes elegance and strength to win. The anime even makes this a point with May towards the end of the series of series where they discuss how May takes from Ash using brute force. By the time DP rolls around she’s focused more on making her Pokémon look good and defeated Zoey.
 

mysticalglacia

Alola Shill
Anime Contests were never about brute force or battling your way to victory. It’s literally a plot point that May did too much when it came to Contest battling and that’s why she lost. They’re battles, yes, but the primary intention is to stalemate your opponent by outperforming and/or dodging them with moves that are aesthetically appealing. The time limit plays a factor in that, and that’s why I really like Contest battles. Some weren’t handled well, but the concept of a battle with all these restrictions and new rules was very interesting. We’ve already seen how boneless Contests fared in Kalos; having battle-less goals is not inherently bad but it can rob the character doing them of some agency they would have otherwise.
In hindsight she was incredibly boring compared to the Pokegirls we have now. She's neither conversational nor had the best character arc. Most of May's Contest wins were BS too. Also outside of contests, May generally doesn’t do ANYTHING and is sidelined along with Max and Brock.
May is and always was great imo. She’s better than every other Pokégirl expect Dawn and maybe Serena (on a good day) to me. She’s just a very entertaining, very fun character with good development. I’d argue that every other Pokégirl except Dawn was sidelined when the show didn’t focus on their goal as well; she’s not special. And even then I remember a good handful of AG fillers -plus a movie- going to May. That’s more that I can say for others.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
Bendicion said:
I really did not like how the contests in AG were only about strength and power instead of the beauty and grace of showcasing off your pokemon. That’s the true point of contests. Brute and strength power is for normal battles. That’s why May lost against Solidad, and if May continues battling like that in contests she will never be a top coordinator.
I don't think Haruka's battling style was focused on brute strength. If that had been the case, she wouldn't have won various Contests in Kanto and Houen, much less made it into the Grand Festivals. She clearly knew how to create dazzling attack combinations, which is why she got as far as she did.
 

Dragonsoldier77

Bittersweet Satisfaction
If brute force ain’t winning you the contest, it’s obviously because you didn’t use enough it. The fact that it’s always an option, is what i don’t like and make it cross to much with normal battling.

Like what’s stopping someone as strong as cynthia or leon wiping out the competition before the time runs out? Probably nothing, unless they’re specifically againts wallace. There’s just too much overlap between ‘trainer’ and ‘coordinator’ that i having specific tittle for them almost pointless. Even ash could draw with a two time grand festival participant without any prior training or experience in it.

Frankly wallace and nando got it right, just do both when you’re strong enough.
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
It's pretty much the same problem they had with Ash before DP too. It's like, the writers always seemed to know he's too reckless in battle, but for whatever reason it never costs him anything until the league. It's kind of ridiculous how much of a difference it made just by saying, "What if the person with the good matchup... actually won?"
...while entirely disregarding the "being cruel to your Pokemon actively makes them weaker and distrustful of you" that the anime had been pushing for nearly a decade and went right back to after DP as though it hadn't been undermining its own message for the previous four years.
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
She seemed pretty much like a Mary Sue type of character and never really struggled much in her contests. It always seems like she passed the appeal rounds without any big problems.
Considering that she was in two grand festivals and in both had a lower rank than Dawn, i don't think that is the case with May
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
Double standard but im not surprised with this fanbase.
Different eras have different standards. The writing of Kanto would never be accepted by the fanbase nowadays, with him just being handed most of his badges, all of the gym leaders being seriously unprofessional and problematic, aside from the Cinnabar gym all gym battles being awful, and the Pokémon he never trained but just left rot at Oak being the stars at the League (Krabby won a 3v3 on its own for example). Back in those days Ash was the sole main character, and the travel companions were secondary to him. Misty never got much development, neither did Brock or Tracy. May was the first time they actually put a goal in for someone other than Ash that they actively did something with. Ash prioritising his own training over her contests, while in retrospect quite bad of him, can be seen in that same light, they were still transitioning and trying with giving someone other than Ash spotlight, but he was still very much the main character.
 
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Bendicion

Water Master
I really felt that May never really grew much as a character. She stumbled into contests and almost instantly mastered them pretty early on, because of course she couldn't go on disliking Pokemon for the entire season. Dawn, by comparison, really struggled: she went through loss after loss, had to get her priorities straight, and there was a clear progression in her character and in her strategies, as she spent so much time training - on-screen - with Ash. However May was rarely, if ever, shown training and practicing for a competent win, instead relying on luck, "hax", and borderline deus ex machina for her wins. May is the kind of character who opens the episode with "My Pokemon and I have been training extra hard!".

May was never really more than a side character with a side character's amount of screen-time and character development. If she needed to train and learn a new strategy, she did it off-screen. Hell, her contests were sometimes off-screen as Ash went off to train and the show focused on him. Where as characters that came after her by comparison, practically upstaged Ash and took control of the anime for themselves, more than once. I was really impressed by the amount of thought and attention given to them, and found myself empathising with them so much more.
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
AG definitely had the worse Contests, except for that one where TR borrowed Aipom, which might have been in Sinnoh anyway.
Fairly sure that one was from DP.

And kind of funny remembering this episode had Ash daydreaming about Aipom leaving him for TR... Some episodes later, we get him trading her for Buizel.

God, I really hate that trade thing.
 

Ubermuk

Sticky & Sweet
I'm gonna say something unpopular but I thought the show sort of ruined contests by turning them into bargain bin versions of gym battles. It totally took focus away from what made contests so unique in the games which was that they weren't meant to contain fighting.

AG's contests were all right but that Sukizo guy drove me crazy with his predictable repetitive unhelpful comments...
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
Bendicion said:
May was never really more than a side character with a side character's amount of screen-time and character development. If she needed to train and learn a new strategy, she did it off-screen. Hell, her contests were sometimes off-screen as Ash went off to train and the show focused on him.
I'm not sure how anyone could've watched AG and came to this conclusion, especially regarding Haruka's screen-time or her supposedly being treated as a "side character" when in reality she got the most attention and development back then aside from Satoshi: Masato only got maybe one or two focus episodes per year from 2002 through 2006 and that's being generous, Takeshi didn't do much better, and even the Rocket-dan weren't receiving much development aside from Musashi, and that was usually during Contest episodes for the most part where she played second fiddle to Haruka and Haruka's rivals.
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
I'm gonna say something unpopular but I thought the show sort of ruined contests by turning them into bargain bin versions of gym battles. It totally took focus away from what made contests so unique in the games which was that they weren't meant to contain fighting.

AG's contests were all right but that Sukizo guy drove me crazy with his predictable repetitive unhelpful comments...
You know what I say to this?

Remarkable.
 

Applecorp

Well-Known Member
The original contests were alright. Took me a while to get into them but for the most part I didn't have any big issues with Hoenn's contests.

I still think the Hoenn contests had better rivals than the Sinnoh ones though. Grace, Solidad, Timmy, Jeremy and the rest were memorable.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
I still think the Hoenn contests had better rivals than the Sinnoh ones though. Grace, Solidad, Timmy, Jeremy and the rest were memorable.
I personally wasn't very fond of some of those opponents, particularly Saori who I thought was reminiscent of a Mary Sue. In some ways she reminded me of Shirona, except that Shirona's status as a Champion at least justified her prodigious battling skills. Saori on the other hand was a blatantly contrived character designed to beat Haruka.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure how anyone could've watched AG and came to this conclusion, especially regarding Haruka's screen-time or her supposedly being treated as a "side character" when in reality she got the most attention and development back then aside from Satoshi: Masato only got maybe one or two focus episodes per year from 2002 through 2006 and that's being generous, Takeshi didn't do much better, and even the Rocket-dan weren't receiving much development aside from Musashi, and that was usually during Contest episodes for the most part where she played second fiddle to Haruka and Haruka's rivals.
A big problem was that TR were kind of doing what they do in normal episodes, padding the contests with their comic relief so the writers didn't need to develop the heroes' efforts. Even worse when they brought in Harley, and too much screen time was devoted more to antagonists using dirty tactics against May rather than her being given proper competition to overcome. (I always kinda felt sorry for TR in the AG contests too, they never won ONE contest, and by the end of them were reduced to an underling for an even campier dud than them, that kinda felt like their lowest point).

DP had TR fill in screentime too, but I felt it was at least used meaningful because they were allowed to DEVELOP and actually become a legit rival for Dawn in that era. Some of their antics in normal episodes even became chekhov's skills in contests, which was a nice touch that added more continuity to what would otherwise be fillers. Granted it did lead to the question of why TR could outwit pros in contests and yet always got their clocks cleaned easily in their normal shtick.
 
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