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Losing in the Anime

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by OceanWaterOtter, May 13, 2013.

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  1. OceanWaterOtter

    OceanWaterOtter Well-Known Member

    Just like in real life, losing is a reality for Ash and all of the other characters in the anime. What do you think of that? Personally, I find it really painful to see these characters lose time and time again... Like when Dawn made it all the way to the finals of the Grand Festival to lose to Zoey and her b*tchy Glameow with the arrogant grin. Or when Ash's Pikachu's Electro Ball wasn't strong enough to ward off Cameron's Lucario's Aura Sphere, causing them to lose the match. I just hate those moments! The worst part for me is when they vow not to lose, and everyone in the stands cheers their hardest and begins to believe in them, only for them to lose anyway. It's as if the writers build up the enthusiasm to make the inevitable loss that much more painful. Uhg! If you're anything like me, you lose enough in real life, and you kind of want to see these characters succeed. I don't know. What do you guys think about this?
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2013
  2. karczx

    karczx Well-Known Member

    Well yeah, they'd have to do that because if any of them won, the anime would be over.

    But yeah at least they could have made a better, more exciting matchup vs kotetsu rather than his lucario sweeping almost everything.
     
  3. Vernikova

    Vernikova Champion

    It's nice to see a bit of reality in the anime since it already lacks so much but there's only one thing wrong with it: the Pokemon anime isn't real. It's fiction. Just like with all fiction, it's not meant to mirror reality in every way. We expect a payoff for sitting through and watching it whether it be accomplishments, a lesson, etc. Sure, someone not always winning is good one or two times but it gets repetitive after that. Just like Ash, May, and Dawn losing. Again. And again. And again. It gets repetitive and you start to lose interest as you get older.

    Of course, the writers of Pokemon certainly get this. It's almost certain. It's just that they are aiming at new kids every generation so they can get away with it. The news kids cheer Ash, he loses, new kids cycle in, they cheer, he loses, etc, etc. Thus they can get away with this. You know? How many kids anime have the main character losing at the end? Not many. Many kids probably don't see this kind of stuff until they get to things like Pokemon.

    Does it suck? Yeah, for the old guys like you, and the regulars here, and the regulars of all Pokemon anime forums all over the internet. It sucked for me too when I used to watch regularly. But you know what you're in for before you watch. You know it's already poorly written so a lot of stuff isn't going to be great. Poor animation, poor characters, poor plot it's nothing new for the old guys.

    Sure you can complain about it but you already knew what you were in for: a show that isn't great, aimed at kids, and where Ash and his friends won't reach their goals until the end. So just enjoy the ride if you're watching it. Or simply skip a generation like I did with V and wait for the next one.

    Yes, losing sucks. No matter what, it does suck. But it's easier to cope with when you already knew it was coming and you chose to go through it anyway.
     
  4. karczx

    karczx Well-Known Member

    Doesn't matter. Maybe when they actually end the series is when they really give up on their dreams of being top whatever.
     
  5. OceanWaterOtter

    OceanWaterOtter Well-Known Member

    I think that you're right. The writers certainly understand that having the main characters lose time and time again does become repetitive after a while. And they probably keep Ash at ten years of age solely for the purpose of appealing to newer, younger, more naive generations of Pokemon fans. Ash is certainly not a character that ages with you. I don't understand, though, why winning has to be the bottom line. There are plenty of interesting ways to keep an anime going after winning. It's really not the terrible show killer that they fear it is. As for May and Dawn, well, Dawn really, I completely don't understand why she could not have won against Zoey. The writers were going to retire that character after generation IV anyway, why did she have to come so close to winning that she could taste it only to lose? Are they really so hellbent on teaching kids to be good losers? But I guess that you're, right. I knew it was coming, it always does, so I should either enjoy the ride or find a new anime.
     
  6. Vernikova

    Vernikova Champion

    Probably to keep the status quo or to make it easier on themselves so they don't have to keep him continually progressing over the years. Well, Ash would be covered by the latter. May and Dawn probably don't win to make Ash look a little less bad.

    Yeah, they should've let Dawn win. Or at least beat Zoey earlier on in the tournament. I'd reiterate my above statement about not having Ash look like a failure in comparison to his friends. Of course, one trophy doesn't necessarily make you better but then comes "how can Dawn win one on her first try but not Ash???" and the like.
     
  7. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Banned

    They didn't want Dawn to win her very first Grand Festival, they probably only had her get into the finals because the writers knew that would be the final Contest in the anime. So since they knew they were getting rid of Contests, they figured might as well have the main character make it to the end.
     
  8. randomspot555

    randomspot555 Well-Known Member

    Ash doesn't win every battle, but he wins the battles that matter. Every time he's competed in a Pokemon League match against a regional rival (IE not someone who showed up right before the league), he's won. He beat Gary in Johto. He beat Conway and Paul in Sinnoh. He beat Trip and Stephan in Unova. While he might not win the entire tournament, he wins the battles that the viewers are most invested in.
     
  9. xXYobi TakiXx

    xXYobi TakiXx Get ready to fly

    It is sad to see them lose, but sometimes they have to. Which makes me sad that the writes don't let them win though battles they've been training for.
     
  10. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Banned

    No main character will ever win anything other than a side competition.
     
  11. Hikatoshi26

    Hikatoshi26 Well-Known Member

    I also agree with that but also Zoey was suppose to be Dawn's rival she never beats. Just like how even though Ash beat Gary in Johto Gary is always 1 step ahead. So I can buy the end of contest theory but I also believe Dawn was never going to be Zoey anyway.
     
  12. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Banned

    The Zoey rivalry was different than the others because she was more like her mentor than rival, so Dawn didn't really need to beat her.
     
  13. OceanWaterOtter

    OceanWaterOtter Well-Known Member

    Zoey was definitely more like a mentor than a rival, but still, having Dawn make it all the way to the finals of the Grand Festival only to lose was a complete let down. The part I hated the most was that all eyes were on her. All of Dawn's friends were cheering for her, and all of her rivals were watching—silently cheering for her too. Her mother was even there. All of that communicates to the viewer that this is an important moment in Dawn's life. Seeing her lose after all of that just hurts. I don't want to see a character fail that way, at least not without some sort of redemption. She gets no such thing of course. There is no rematch with Zoey nor a second chance at the GF. It's just over.

    A similar thing happened with Ash at the Unova League. Everyone was cheering for him and Pikachu to prove their bond and affirm their hard work by beating Cameron. Bianca even talked about what great chemistry Ash and Pikachu had and how amazing their bond was. It was really Ash's moment to prove himself. With unshakable resolve and gleaming eyes, he even vowed earlier to win the Unova League. Seeing Pikachu get knocked out by that dorky Cameron and his overused and overpowered Lucario was just painful. (Actually, why even a Lucario? That's so fourth gen. A Zoroark would have been more interesting.)
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2013
  14. Lorde

    Lorde Banned

    I wouldn't have a problem with Ash losing so much if he actually learned from his experiences and got steadily better to be honest. Like, if he could just keep everything he's learned throughout his journey in his mind and used all that knowledge to his advantage, I'm sure he would be a great battler. But alas, he seems to lose half his battles and many of them due to mistakes that could have been avoided had he used prior knowledge. Overall though, I can't be bothered to care for the battling aspect of the anime these days because even when a character does win, the win seems so unrealistic that there's no point in trying to logically justify said win in my opinion.
     
  15. fitzy909

    fitzy909 Just another guy

    i understand where you are coming from. i don't mind him losing, everyone loses from time to time. the problem is that he doesn't ever improve. he doesn't learn how to improve and he makes the same mistakes over and over. it can get depressing, but he makes very slight improvement every region.
     
  16. OshyHikari

    OshyHikari c l a r i t y

    ^ I second this.

    This is also the reason why Ash probably won't win a league, other than the Battle Frontier or Orange Islands. If Ash did win a major league it would probably signify the end of his travels and the writers don't really want to replace him so this is why they usually let rivals or last-minute insert characters win these competitions instead.
     
  17. fitzy909

    fitzy909 Just another guy

    true. they wouldn't carry on travelling if they won, so they will lose constantly until they want to end it all. it is annoying, but it either have them lose or have no anime.
     
  18. Shymain

    Shymain Shaymin Lover

    I'm fine with them losing- but they never win, which really irks me as he's probably the most experienced trainer.
     
  19. Vernikova

    Vernikova Champion

    Considering he's been a trainer for less than a year, I doubt he's the most experienced.
     
  20. Mr Dragon

    Mr Dragon Crazy Dude

    Are you talking about Ash? Because he's been a trainer for at least a year.
     
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