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Losing in the Anime

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AquaMilotic

AquaMilotic

yay
randomspot555 said:
Ash doesn't win every battle, but he wins the battles that matter.
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Well, if he'd win all the battles that matter, he'd win tournaments.

fitzy909 said:
but he makes very slight improvement every region.
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He regressed in BW, and did worse than in DP during the League...

Mr Dragon said:
Are you talking about Ash? Because he's been a trainer for at least a year.
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He's still ten years old, I wouldn't be so sure about that...

Anyways, I think it's good that main characters lose every now and then: if they'd win all their battles, there would be no tension, that would make the anime very boring. But like Ciccone says, Ash never learns from his mistakes, and even regresses now, which also isn't good.
 
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SonicX28

Active Member
^ Agreed. I mean sure, Ash isn't invincible, but the main point is, he's always been improving prior to BW. In Sinnoh, he makes it to the top 4, clearly shows his Pokemon has improved and learned new tricks, and even fights a trainer who nobody could beat his Darkrai and even beats it and is able to defeat a Latios as well.

Now in BW (I haven't watched past the end of the Unova League) and he hasn't accomplished any of that and loses to an idiot.
 
D

deathseer

Oh, u mad bro?
Vern said:
It's nice to see a bit of reality in the anime since it already lacks so much but there's only one thing wrong with it: the Pokemon anime isn't real. It's fiction. Just like with all fiction, it's not meant to mirror reality in every way. We expect a payoff for sitting through and watching it whether it be accomplishments, a lesson, etc. Sure, someone not always winning is good one or two times but it gets repetitive after that. Just like Ash, May, and Dawn losing. Again. And again. And again. It gets repetitive and you start to lose interest as you get older.

Of course, the writers of Pokemon certainly get this. It's almost certain. It's just that they are aiming at new kids every generation so they can get away with it. The news kids cheer Ash, he loses, new kids cycle in, they cheer, he loses, etc, etc. Thus they can get away with this. You know? How many kids anime have the main character losing at the end? Not many. Many kids probably don't see this kind of stuff until they get to things like Pokemon.

Does it suck? Yeah, for the old guys like you, and the regulars here, and the regulars of all Pokemon anime forums all over the internet. It sucked for me too when I used to watch regularly. But you know what you're in for before you watch. You know it's already poorly written so a lot of stuff isn't going to be great. Poor animation, poor characters, poor plot it's nothing new for the old guys.

Sure you can complain about it but you already knew what you were in for: a show that isn't great, aimed at kids, and where Ash and his friends won't reach their goals until the end. So just enjoy the ride if you're watching it. Or simply skip a generation like I did with V and wait for the next one.

Yes, losing sucks. No matter what, it does suck. But it's easier to cope with when you already knew it was coming and you chose to go through it anyway.
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Exactly what I was going to say.
 
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OceanWaterOtter

Well-Known Member
Maybe time in the anime doesn't flow at the same pace that it does in the real world. How could he have traveled to so many places and entered so many annual competitions in less than a year? Actually, I'm pretty sure I remember Dawn saying that "This year the Wallace cup is going to be held in the Johto Region." Maybe time is still passing even in the world of the anime, but the characters just aren't aging. Whatever the case may be, Ash has experience not by time or age, but by the sheer number of battles, competitions, and Pokemon that he's raised. He shouldn't lose quite as much as he does. Why did he lose to Cheren for instance? Or Bianca's dad? Now that was a battle that mattered, and he still lost. The deal was that he would go home if he was defeated, yet Ash still couldn't win.
 
Vernikova

Vernikova

Champion
If I remember, the dubbers add most of the mentions to events being annual. Don't know whether that was in the original or not though.
 
M

Mr Dragon

Crazy Dude
AquaMilotic said:
He's still ten years old, I wouldn't be so sure about that...
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It's literally mentioned in the series 1 episode where he comes back to Pallet Town that it was 1 year since he met Pikachu, if I remember correctly, also, just because people don't age, doesn't mean time isn't passing, it's a cartoon for goodness sake.
 
Vernikova

Vernikova

Champion
Mr Dragon said:
It's literally mentioned in the series 1 episode where he comes back to Pallet Town that it was 1 year since he met Pikachu, if I remember correctly, also, just because people don't age, doesn't mean time isn't passing, it's a cartoon for goodness sake.
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It was mentioned at the beginning of Best Wishes that he was ten-years-old. Even if we take your second point, one year of experience doesn't mean much.
 
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idawnhikari

No Need to Worry!
Ash doesn't age at all. As much as I want the writers to make him age as a sign of maturity and progression they're not going to do it. Which reminds me of
when I first saw the Pokemon Black 2 and White 2 anime trailer for the game. Now if only the TV series was like that...*sighs* one can dream though....
 
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karczx

Well-Known Member
Although he did mature from Johto to AG to DP in a way, as shown by his experience and who he had to teach and learn from, then BW regressed him back to 10 and there you have it.
 
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idawnhikari

No Need to Worry!
karczx said:
Although he did mature from Johto to AG to DP in a way, as shown by his experience and who he had to teach and learn from, then BW regressed him back to 10 and there you have it.
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Yeah pretty much sums it up right there. That is what makes me disappointed in Ash's character overall, he progresses for one region then reverts back into a noob the next.
I was laughing so hard when even Dawn gave him trouble when they had that battle between her Quilava and his Pikachu in BW2, before she left again. I don't understand why
the writers can't make him more wiser or at least evolve most of his Pokemon. I just once want to see Ash with a full team of evolved pokemon, that would be nice.
 
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SonicX28

Active Member
Yep. I loved DP Ash, but then him being downgraded in Unova was ridiculous. The only smart thing I remember him doing was saving Krookodile for later because he suspected Stephan was going to use Sawk.
 
M

Mew The Gato

___________
Once, when Ash had a long winning streak in one of the Advanced Generation Episodes, he got really proud of himself and would have continued if Drake had not defeated him.
Due to this, I think that losing is important too, so that someone is not overcome by pride.
 
S

SonicX28

Active Member
^ I would love if he was as skilled as he was in AG. Facing trainers and being asked to be a Frontier Brain. Definitely shows he was getting closer to becoming a Pokemon Master until BW showed up.
 
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OceanWaterOtter

Well-Known Member
Ash should be more than humble with all of the battles he's lost this series. In fact, out of Ash, Cilan, and Iris, it seems that Iris has grown the most. The sad part is that she's not even the focus of this anime, and her success only accentuates Ash's "amnesia" and sudden inexperience. She's right actually. He really is like a "little kid" now.
 
Vernikova

Vernikova

Champion
Mr Dragon said:
Does Battle Frontier and Orange Islands champion mean much?
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They're great achievements but they didn't stop him from losing to other trainers like Harrison, Morrison, and Tobias. Sure they were introduced to beat him but, in the context of the story, as far as we know none of them beat either of those leagues. Taking that into consideration, they may not mean a great for general experience.
 
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xdawnhikari

Guest
Ash did the best in DP, counting the Orange Islands and Battle Frontier achievements aside.
 
C

CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
For Ash it goes like this:

Kanto: Rookie
Johto: Marginally better, but still not all that strong as a trainer
AG: Experienced, much more skilled, can actually be considered a competent trainer
DP: Ash at his strongest, had really powerful Pokemon and actually skill and technique to his battles
BW: Regressed Ash to his Johto self.


Funny thing is people don't realize Best Wishes Ash is almost exactly like Johto Ash in terms of both personality and trainer skill. He went backwards two generations.
 
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