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Lucario: The Ultimate ace?

I feel like they made Aura way more powerful then they should have with Ash’s Lucario, because Lucario has two OP gimmicks while everyone else has one. Aura plus Mega Evolution automatically makes Lucario better then every other Pokémon. Like if Ash used Aura plus Mega against the Articuno he could of one-shot it.
 
Still can't figure out whether Cricket loves or hates Greninja. It's getting confusing and changes every day.
I love Greninja but I think it’s overrated. I’m trying to tell people that it sucks not because I dislike it but because it’s weak. I feel bad for Greninja and wish it had the feats that it deserved to get.
See this is why I hate Lucario so much: because it got two OP gimmicks
 

PaperCutVictim

Well-Known Member
I think Greninja still has a legitimate claim as one of the strongest pokemon Ash has ever had, but he suffers from having one of the least impressive resumes of any of Ash's aces, seeing how arguably his greatest display of strength came from his most famous defeat (Alain's MCX). I don't think most people really argue that it was a feat to have made that monster work for its victory, but it does leave us to question where that leaves Greninja on the totem pole. While it's certainly something to make a dominating monster bleed, it's not as impressive as defeating it. Look how much mileage Sceptile got for defeating Tobias's Darkrai (not downplaying the victory at all; that was definitely something!) Even though Infernape's best display of strength did not involve defeating legendaries, taking down 3 pokemon belonging to Ash's toughest rival at the time, and his unusually powerful Blaze only activating during the final battle against Electivire, really cemented him as one of Ash's best.

Meanwhile, Greninja... sadly, in the league run where Greninja was supposed to shine the most, I think Pikachu actually came out of it looking the best. Though to be fair, that was one of the most formidable showings any of Ash's pokemon has ever had.
 
I think Greninja still has a legitimate claim as one of the strongest pokemon Ash has ever had, but he suffers from having one of the least impressive resumes of any of Ash's aces, seeing how arguably his greatest display of strength came from his most famous defeat (Alain's MCX). I don't think most people really argue that it was a feat to have made that monster work for its victory, but it does leave us to question where that leaves Greninja on the totem pole. While it's certainly something to make a dominating monster bleed, it's not as impressive as defeating it. Look how much mileage Sceptile got for defeating Tobias's Darkrai (not downplaying the victory at all; that was definitely something!) Even though Infernape's best display of strength did not involve defeating legendaries, taking down 3 pokemon belonging to Ash's toughest rival at the time, and his unusually powerful Blaze only activating during the final battle against Electivire, really cemented him as one of Ash's best.

Meanwhile, Greninja... sadly, in the league run where Greninja was supposed to shine the most, I think Pikachu actually came out of it looking the best. Though to be fair, that was one of the most formidable showings any of Ash's pokemon has ever had.
This is what I’m saying. Poor Greninja.
 
I think Greninja still has a legitimate claim as one of the strongest pokemon Ash has ever had, but he suffers from having one of the least impressive resumes of any of Ash's aces, seeing how arguably his greatest display of strength came from his most famous defeat (Alain's MCX). I don't think most people really argue that it was a feat to have made that monster work for its victory, but it does leave us to question where that leaves Greninja on the totem pole. While it's certainly something to make a dominating monster bleed, it's not as impressive as defeating it. Look how much mileage Sceptile got for defeating Tobias's Darkrai (not downplaying the victory at all; that was definitely something!) Even though Infernape's best display of strength did not involve defeating legendaries, taking down 3 pokemon belonging to Ash's toughest rival at the time, and his unusually powerful Blaze only activating during the final battle against Electivire, really cemented him as one of Ash's best.

Meanwhile, Greninja... sadly, in the league run where Greninja was supposed to shine the most, I think Pikachu actually came out of it looking the best. Though to be fair, that was one of the most formidable showings any of Ash's pokemon has ever had.
I want to pin this response to my wall with how accurate and depressing it is
 

pickapika

Well-Known Member
If Lucario defeats Garchomp it would be stronger than Pikachu. Period.
??
Pikachu solo'd two of cynthia's pokemon and only fainted because of an unblockable suicide move. You also have the implications of Ash turning to Pikachu when he was in trouble and Cynthia specifically preparing drag along for pikachu. It would seem that both cynthia and ash consider pikachu ash's strongest mon(cynthia actually calls pikachu his greatest mon explicitly) and Pikachu at least was strong enough to take out two of cynthia's pokemon.

How is Lucario establishing anything relative to Pikachu when we didn' teven get to see his full capacity
 
??
Pikachu solo'd two of cynthia's pokemon and only fainted because of an unblockable suicide move. You also have the implications of Ash turning to Pikachu when he was in trouble and Cynthia specifically preparing drag along for pikachu. It would seem that both cynthia and ash consider pikachu ash's strongest mon(cynthia actually calls pikachu his greatest mon explicitly) and Pikachu at least was strong enough to take out two of cynthia's pokemon.

How is Lucario establishing anything relative to Pikachu when we didn' teven get to see his full capacity
It’s defeating Cynthia’s Garchomp. Second strongest Pokemon in the anime. Plus Togekiss who is Dynamax (even though Lucario has the advantage)
 

Akashin

Well-Known Member
It’s defeating Cynthia’s Garchomp. Second strongest Pokemon in the anime. Plus Togekiss who is Dynamax (even though Lucario has the advantage)
...And? All that says is that Lucario is strong. It says absolutely nothing about how Lucario measures up to Pikachu because there's no proof that Pikachu can't do the same.
 

pickapika

Well-Known Member
...And? All that says is that Lucario is strong. It says absolutely nothing about how Lucario measures up to Pikachu because there's no proof that Pikachu can't do the same.
Also have to question if cynthia's pokemon are even that strong given how they've been potrayed recently.

Mega Garchomp barely beats Iris's base haxorus, and Ash's Unoragan tanks multiple attacks from garchomp, roserade, and Milokaross while posioned.

Does beating garchomp even put lucario above Unoragan? Dude walked through two full blasts while posioned, took a hit from garchomp and then one-shotted roserade while dealing heavy damage to milokaross.

Given that Pikachu is called ashs's "best partner" by cynthia and he no sells a shitton of attacks while basically one-shotting two of Cynthia's pokemon(without being giga-maxed or using a z-move), I think it's probably safe to assume that Pikachu can do better than what Lucario does.

Lucario's performance probably isn't even top 2 for ash's pokemon in this fight. Beating base Garchomp who was already dealt heavy damage by "gigaknight" just isn't that impressive
 
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Sham

The Guardian of Ruin and Birth
Also have to question if cynthia's pokemon are even that strong given how they've been potrayed recently.

Mega Garchomp barely beats Iris's base haxorus, and Ash's Unoragan tanks multiple attacks from garchomp, roserade, and Milokaross while posioned.

Does beating garchomp even put lucario above Unoragan? Dude walked through two full blasts while posioned, took a hit from garchomp and then one-shotted roserade while dealing heavy damage to milokaross.

Given that Pikachu is called ashs's "best partner" by cynthia and he no sells a shitton of attacks while basically one-shotting two of Cynthia's pokemon(without being giga-maxed or using a z-move), I think it's probably safe to assume that Pikachu can do better than what Lucario does.

Lucario's performance probably isn't even top 2 for ash's pokemon in this fight. Beating base Garchomp who was already dealt heavy damage by "gigaknight" just isn't that impressive
I think it’s because Cynthia was constantly portrayed as this monster with a Garchomp based on how much they shilled it and that’s why it seems like it’s a more amazing feat for Lucario.

In all honesty, if things were realistic and the right moveset (even then) Pikachu should have been the one to defeat Garchomp if not Infernape.

They’ve been doing this weird thing where they quickly get Pikachu out the way to have the ace of Ash’s current team not lose after Pikachu so they can finish the match and it’s worse because Pikachu actually knows Cynthia and this isn’t a random opponent. Lucario had no connection with Garchomp besides random egg magic they made up .
 

pickapika

Well-Known Member
I think it’s because Cynthia was constantly portrayed as this monster with a Garchomp based on how much they shilled it and that’s why it seems like it’s a more amazing feat for Lucario.

In all honesty, if things were realistic and the right moveset (even then) Pikachu should have been the one to defeat Garchomp if not Infernape.
there's a big discrepancy in cynthia's hype(especially from sinnoh) and what cynthia actually does. Vs Iris she basically cheats to win and against Ash, with the exception of taking out pikachu via drag along, it seems she's mostly succeeding off ash letting his pokemon getting tagged a bunch.

sinnoh garchomp was this supreme unbeatable pokemon for a supreme unbeatable trainer. Journeys garchomp is a chump who
-> needs to cheat to beat haxorus
-> is dealt heavy damage from just one move by one of ash's weaker mons
-> isn't even chosen for amplification vs ash suggesting he's basically interchangeable with cynthia's other mons as an ace
They’ve been doing this weird thing where they quickly get Pikachu out the way to have the ace of Ash’s current team not lose after Pikachu so they can finish the match and it’s worse because Pikachu actually knows Cynthia and this isn’t a random opponent. Lucario had no connection with Garchomp besides random egg magic they made up .
I mean i'll take it because cynthia taking out pikachu with drag-along is like the only moment where she actually feels like an impressive trainer/strategist.

It's also decent holistic hype for Pikachu. Could be seen as Cynthia's basically saying "damn pikachu's too good, gotta take him out to beat ash". Pikachu actually looks a lot better than garchomp right now which is ctazy to imagine considering wherr we were at in sinnoh.

The actual masters tournament has treated pikachu a lot more favorably than i expected with pikachu repeatedly being called ash's best and pikachu basically operating as a team buster vs flint and cynthia.

Was expecting it to be more like lucario as ash's greninja and Pikachu as the warm up act

Will say pikachu having a "connection" with garchomp is a stretch. I'm not sure they've ever even interacted with each other.
 
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