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Discussion in 'Completed Fics' started by icemew, Feb 6, 2006.

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  1. icemew

    icemew Banned

    ...the better to fall apart.

    Chapter Eighteen – End

    Team Aqua had kept their word, because when she approached the small town between the Safari Zone and Lilycove, there were several people standing just outside, wearing matching outfits, black and white shirts above blue pants. It was late afternoon, nearing but not quite dusk, and the sky was clear.

    "You're the one?" asked the adult.

    She nodded. Names weren't exchanged; it didn't matter if they knew one another. "But he'll see you coming if you just follow me."

    "Our base of operations is in Lilycove," he said. "We moved most of our people to Mt. Chimney but we still have some here. They're spread out through the town, enough that a few around you won't be noticeable. They'll keep their distance until you identify him."

    "You're sure he's here?" Lucki asked.

    "Relatively," the adult said. "If he's trying to blend in, he has to move with the rest of the trainers. Lilycove is half a day's journey away. No real trainer would turn up a room in the Pokecenter to camp, especially not with a torrential thunderstorm reported for tonight."

    Lucki's eyes looked upward a second at the cloudless sky. "There's a storm?"

    The admin winked. "As far as they know."

    She grinned back, expression sharp and a trifle malicious. It's over now, Keegan.

    Lucki headed into the city. The other Team Aqua members with them promptly spread out, and she could see a few others mingling among the people as she entered. The admin was trailing her at a distance. She started walking through the streets, looking through the crowds until her eyes finally caught on a familiar figure.


    He started to turn. "Hey Luck-"

    She barreled into him, knocking him to the ground hard. "Liar!" Her fingers hooked into his pocket and tore, exposing the Orb. She grabbed for it.

    He lunged for it too. "No! Stop!"

    She wrenched free as two Team Aqua members grabbed him, holding him down.

    "Stop! You don't know what you're doing!" Keegan screamed.

    She stared back at him silently, a cold rage swirling inside her like icewater, then turned sharply and walked away.

    She rounded a corner of the street and walked to the admin. "Here," she said, holding out the Blue Orb.

    And then she turned her back on all of them and walked away.


    Before going to sleep that night she watched the real weather report. They'd tricked Keegan (like he'd tricked her). The report said there was no chance of rain for the rest of week.

    Day Thirteen​

    In the morning she continued east.

    It was the direction she had to go anyway, for her next badge, and the pokemon thief had been heading east. The Team Magma members, Keegan, had said something about a submarine attack soon. So, she thought: the pokemon thief was probably going all the way to Lilycove, which was the only major thing to the east and where Team Aqua's base was, probably as part of a plan to steal a submarine there or something like that.

    If not, she didn't have any other leads to go on. If she heard something about Team Magma clustering somewhere else, she'd turn around. Until then, east it was.

    She met a trainer along the way who mentioned he'd seen some red-shirted guys hurrying in the opposite direction. She smiled and thanked him. I made the right decision, then. She sped up.

    The path was smooth and straight, with none of yesterday's confusion. The sky was perfectly clear. Only by late morning, nearly noon, were there even three or four small puffy white clouds. The ground was dry and even radiating a pleasant amount of heat from the sunlight.

    She reached Lilycove by noon, hearing the fight before she was even clear of the trees.

    "Once the submarine gets hit..." Lucki remembered. Then they weren't even intending to steal it. Just to destroy it. The cold fury rose in her again. They were just going to destroy everything if they couldn't have it.

    Here and there, rain poured out of a clear sky, and thunder crackled in response. Rushing in, Lucki suddenly realized why Keegan had chosen those new pokemon as a solarbeam blasted a hole through a building. She hadn't thought anything of it at the time. She hadn't been suspicious at all.

    Vileplume could go against the water types of Team Aqua and would have an advantage in the same Sunny Day area as fire types. Voltorb managed the same, and the electric attacks would be devastating if Team Aqua tried rain dance. Mawile for resistance in case they ran into something else. From the looks of it, all the Team Magma members had gone a similar route. That's what they were doing poaching in Route 119 Lucki realized. Grass types...and the ones there are used to working in rain.

    For a moment she wondered if somehow, they might actually win. But they couldn't have had these pokemon long – they'd only been poaching recently – and the main pokemon they'd raised would still be fire and ground types, the idiots. Any trainer knew better than that. If they thought they'd win just because they'd thrown in a few untrained grass types in-!

    They were only managing this much because they'd tricked most of Team Aqua into leaving. They could cause damage for the moment, but even if they managed to hold off the members here, it was only until the full force of the Team arrived. Idiots. This was reckless, a bunch of brainless thugs rushing in without any idea how impossible it was they'd win. Probably even acting under the delusion they were actually right.

    As if.

    And Lucki would help speed up their inevitable loss.

    The battle was going to be hard, though. Lucki paused, thinking, and pulled a pokeball from her belt.

    When the Absol formed, Lucki said, "Fara, listen, I really need your help. They've taken Flare and-"

    The Absol stared at her with inscrutable black eyes. "I warned you," she said in her mellifluous voice.

    "What?" Lucki said after a second's pause, then, "No, you don't understand. I'm not blaming you. I need you to work together, as a team. We're going to be fighting Team Magma, and I need everyone's help to win."

    "I understand entirely."

    "So you'll help, then?"

    As if Lucki hadn't spoken, the Absol continued evenly, "This was the only outcome. You had your chance to turn things aside and you chose otherwise."

    "They – they did something to him! They probably did something to all of them!"

    The Absol stared at her with inscrutable black eyes. They were alien and remote.

    "That's why I need you to help me!"

    "You have made your choice," the Absol said, exactly as before. "You have no need of convincing me; I shall remain until the end."

    "So you'll help?"

    "I shall remain," the Absol said, her voice beautiful and emotionless. "I will neither help nor hinder."

    "Why?" Lucki demanded in frustration.

    Calmly, the Absol said, "I told you to release me."

    "Don't you understand yet? I'm not a bad person!"

    The Absol stared at her with inscrutable black eyes. "You have made your choice."

    Over to her right Lucki saw motion and spun to see another Team Magma thug, a girl, around the corner of the building.

    "Go!" she screamed, releasing Raiden. "Attack!"

    The girl spun at her voice, hand reflexively grabbing for a pokeball and throwing it. "Sadiki! Crunch!" The Mightyena appeared, snarling and lunging for Raiden, who yelped and tried to reverse his attack, skidding to a halt as the dark type reached him and managing to jump back as its teeth snapped shut on the empty air where he'd been a second ago. There were gashes in its fur and it had obviously been battling before.


    Raiden was shuddering. Electricity gathered around him, glowing so brightly it hurt to look at. He released it barely a second later, the Mightyena letting out a strangled howl and collapsing.

    "Sadiki!" yelled the girl.

    "Just give up," Lucki told her.

    "We can't lose. Sadiki, I'm sorry, please!"

    The dark type lurched to its feet and jumped him. Raiden and the Mightyena tumbled in a snarling ball, the translator producing short, nonsense syllables in a furious voice. The Mightyena sank its teeth into his shoulder by his neck. Raiden let out a sound like a scream and released a sudden burst of electricity. The Mightyena's whole body convulsed and then it dropped, twitching a moment.

    Raiden was shaking himself, cowering against the ground and when she started toward him he yelped and ran back, leaving a splattering of blood drops. The thug took advantage of the distraction to recall her pokemon and escape.

    He screamed at her. "It hurts!"

    "Raiden, it's okay I can -"

    "It's scary and it hurts and it's hard!" he screamed. "He was going to kill me! I don't want to!" Blood was dripping down his leg and chest onto the rough cement of the ground. "I don't care if it's fixed it still hurts!" His body was shaking as if he was sobbing.


    "You fight!" he yelled. "You fight! You do it!"

    "Raiden, come on, we don't have time for this, we have to get Flare."

    "Flare hates me! He hates me because you liked me better!"

    "That's not true," Lucki said.

    "I want Mom and Dad and I don't want to fight and I don't want him to hate me and I don't want to be hurt or any of it!" His voice was jumping, loud to soft to loud. The translator might have sparked or maybe he was sparking, and the Absol said,

    "She does not hold you."

    The Manectric looked from the Absol to Lucki to the Absol to Lucki to the Absol and then he spun and ran.

    Lucki shouted after him, but he was gone.


    Lucki threw out Saurius' pokeball. "Razor leaf!" she shouted.

    "No," said the Tropius calmly. The Team Magma trainer before them hesitated, then recalled his Poochyena and ran.

    "Saurius, what's wrong with you? I need your help!"

    The Tropius looked at her a long moment, as if from a great distance. "Why did I go with you?" he asked slowly. "There must have been some reason, but I no longer remember what it could possibly be."


    "That isn't even my name," he said, his voice still slow and somewhat confused, still distant. "So why...?"

    "Listen, Saurius, we're fighting Team Magma here, they took Flare. We can get your friends back too!"

    But he just kept looking at her from that distance. "Why? It wasn't as if you'd done it for their sake, I knew that. You helped me because they had taken something of yours and you disliked them. You could easily have stood on the other side. What does it matter to me which kind of trainer they were? Yet still I went. Gratitude? Strength? With all of them gone, it doesn't matter even still." He went silent. He turned his long neck around, taking in his surroundings. Finally he looked back to her. His expression showed no recognition, as if he had forgotten who she was.

    "They're not gone! If you help me we can save them!"

    And slowly, gravely, he said, "Whatever bond you had to me, it's gone now." He breathed in calmly. "And there is something brewing in the air. Something building." His wings began to beat. He lifted into the air and began to fly off.

    Lucki reached blindly for his pokeball.

    "You told them they could leave if they chose," said the golden voice of the Absol. Startled, Lucki looked to her, and before she could look back to Saurius, he was gone.


    And Silver said only, "You picked me," in a voice harsh with betrayal and accusation.

    "Are you going to run away too?" Lucki said.

    Silver stood there, tears trickling down her face. "I don't have anywhere I can run."

    Mutely, Lucki pulled the white school pokeball from her belt and recalled the Squirtle.

    And the Absol said, "I warned you," her voice drifting ethereally in the air, clear and distinct among the violence and shouts.

    "I told you, it's not your fault," Lucki said again. "Those stories aren't true."

    "It's Team Magma," Lucki said. "It's Team Magma, they're the ones who did this. They did something to my pokemon."

    And the Absol did not respond.

    "It's not your fault!" Lucki screamed. "None of it was true!"

    "No," agreed the Absol in her beautiful, inhuman voice. "It was your fault from the beginning."

    For the space of a breath it was silent, the chaos around them paused.

    Pokeballs popped open behind her. A boy's voice yelled, "Attack!"

    Lucki threw out the pokeball in her hand. Silver screamed as the Absol flipped gracefully out of the way of a Camerupt's flamethrower, then twisted to avoid the lunging Mightyena. Keegan tackled her to the ground, sending her skidding across the pavement to the broken edge. She thrashed, kicking him in the side hard enough to make him loosen his grasp, and scrambled away, her arm and leg burning where they were scraped and her back and shoulders throbbing from the impact.

    Lucki turned to see Silver blasting the approaching Mightyena with water, the Absol landing deftly but making no move to take out either pokemon. Keegan was between her and the battle, and he got to his feet in the moment she took watching it. She turned again and ran. She could pounding footsteps on cement that were indistinguishable from her own.

    She took a wrong turn and wound up headed down a street where a building has collapsed across it. She didn't, like the Team Magma boy, the thief, try to turn back. That would be a mistake. She sped up, throwing herself toward the rubble. If she could get up it before he reached her, had enough time and distance to climb it, it'd slow him down too.

    Unfortunately she had no such lead or time. She made it perhaps three feet off the ground by climbing like running, grabbing at the broken brick and stone without consideration for comfort, banging her knees on the raw edges as she shoved her shoes into footholds by touch rather than sight. The distance she climbed meant only she fell that much farther when Keegan caught up seconds later, grabbed her by one leg and pulled her roughly down, the skin on her hands ripping as she tried to hold on. She hit the ground hard, landing on hip and elbow with a long bloody gash along her bare leg where it caught on a bit of broken steel.

    "Give -" Keegan started to shout, but she lashed out again, kicking his legs under him almost enough that he fell and enough that he was off balance long enough to scramble to her feet again and take off in the opposite direction.

    She couldn't feel any pain from the injuries, but she could feel blood trickling down her ankle, a stiffness in her knee, a raw heat on her palms and elbows. She could hear shouts and explosions and screams, and the building behind her shattered.

    The boy behind her shouted. His voice wasn't pained, so she thought he was clear. She wouldn't have looked back either way. Lucki kept running.

    She realized she should try to retrace her steps, get back to her pokemon, but only too late, when she'd already gone well past the original turns she'd taken and she had no idea where they were. She passed battling Team Aqua and Magma pairs, and might have gone to them but the Aqua memebers she saw were losing and she had no pokemon of her own. And soon there were footsteps behind her.

    Keegan pinned her finally against a wall, his arm pressing against her throat. "Give up the Orb."

    She grinned defiantly. "I already gave it to Team Aqua."

    Keegan released her. He stumbled backward, looking stunned, his eyes wide and uncomprehending. "Oh god. Oh god. It's over."

    "You're right," Lucki snapped, "it is over-"

    "Do you have any idea what you've done?" he screamed. "Do you have any idea?"

    Above them the white clouds began to darken.

    "You destroyed the world! You let them raise Kyogre!" he screamed as the first light raindrops began to fall. "You've drowned the whole world!"

    Thunder rumbled above.


    She'd collapsed soon after, giving in to exhaustion.

    She lay there, in the rain and the mud and the devastation. Her eyes were still open and she could see the thundering sky, the ruined buildings. The rain that fell in sheets from a black sky.

    An absol appeared out of the gloom and padded toward her with unhurried pawsteps, like a quiet demon or an incarnate god. It bent its head and touched its mudsplattered nose delicately to her forehead like a priest's benediction. "I told you," it said simply, its breath soft and insubstantial against her face.
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2007
  2. Farla

    Farla Banned

    Hi everyone, I'm Farla and you've just finished Lucki: A Middling Sue Parody.

    (I'd like to thank my little brother for helping me keep my postcount and give the illusion of forum participation early on, and my friend Plum for the reviews. I'd also like to thank the several authors whose stories were the inspiration for this one, and out of that gratitude, I'll be courteous enough not to name you.)

    Now, about the story.

    As you may or may not be aware, I write an ongoing parody of original trainer stories. I also read a lot of them, and the reviews of them. And between the trainers starting the suicune and the ones that couldn't spell to save their lives, there are occasional popular OT stories, ones hailed as 'not a mary sue!', nicely written, many chapters long, pointed to as an example of how to write decent story...that make me cringe.

    Because they're middling sues, characters that dodge litmus test questions but nothing more. Their names are odd but not quite at the level of Elahaxaria. Maybe they get a common pokemon that's shiny, or wind up trading for something rarer. And of course they'll see a legendary or dozen, but they won't catch it (or at least not at first). They lose occasionally, they praise other trainers as being 'good too' after winning, and they're just generally a toned-down version of a regular sue.

    The authors of these stories are generally decent in terms of writing – they have to be, to get away with this. A middling sue is basically a standard sue with more foresight. The world is created around the sue prior to the story being written, so at no point in the story does the sue directly warp things to get her way. It was a forgone conclusion from the start. The author is better at figuring out less dramatic alternatives to get to the same conclusion, so the sue doesn't save an abused eevee from Team Rocket, she gets one as present. And the writing is good enough overall to be readable and even somewhat intimidating. Even if reviewers notice something is off, they generally can't articulate it. And since god forbid any reviewer be negative without saying exactly what the problem is, all they can do is say it's good. This is even more pronounced on forums where an author can shout down any naysayer.

    In most instances no one thing the middling sue does can be pointed out as being sueish or overpowered, and it's only as the sum of their parts that it becomes evident. In other words, reviewers can't just dredge up stock complaints and advice that someone else said first. And so, all they can do is praise it, rec it, and annoy me when I realize five chapters in that the promising story just keeps getting worse with no end in sight and any attempt to say so will be shouted down by the peanut gallery.

    (And they are stock, let's admit it. While I'm sure you have the best of intentions, would kill some of you to have your own opinions?)

    I was faced with a conundrum. Of all things, this seemed most vital to parody as it was the one thing no one else was noticing, as well as resistant to direct concrit. But how can one parody something that is by definition avoiding extremes?

    Middling sues are not easily noticeable in their native habitat. They blend perfectly into their surroundings because their setting is as sueish as they are. Lucki has blue hair, but Violet has purple hair and eyes. Lucki has a shiny pokemon, but then, she could have picked an eevee rather than a regular starter. And oh, she gets money that's technically fifty times the amount you get in the games, but hey, who cares about little details like that? When Lucki does get an eeveelution, it's the least common one and he spends plenty of time losing. Meanwhile her more common pokemon crush opponents, but hey, they're common! That's something.

    Mixed into this are more insidious parts, things standard throughout original trainer stories. Pokemon all want to battle. All the pokemon who happen to be caught are always completely suited for fights, unless they're weaklings who become physically impressive fighters after being fed and trained a bit. Pokemon who clearly state they don't want to be trained should be ignored, as they really do, they just don't know it. Any deviations from this are inconveniences for the poor trainer, who is the one who should have our sympathy. Pokemon readers are often pokemon players, and original trainer stories are half wish fulfillment from the start. Large parts of the world are simply expected to work out neatly. This is a problem with even good stories. If it's possible none of this ever comes up, then that's what happens, even if the odds against every pokemon ever encountered having the life's goal of being a trained pokemon battler is astronomical.

    This can't be parodied like simple sue bashing stories where the fanfic's world rebukes the sue, because the problem is as much the world as the character. Besides, a single chapter of the story is rarely sueish enough on its own to justify such. A true middling sue story is forever on the cusp of blatant sueishness with each chapter, but always with the apparent potential to turn around.

    The only way to demonstrate it, then, is by writing a whole story. More, because these stories are so interwoven with the responses of reviewers, to truly demonstrate it completely I needed not only a whole story, but the reviewers along with it, to cheer her on. And what better way of doing that than here?

    And so, Lucki. Her defining characteristic is ultimately not the outward signs of sueishness, although there are many. It is that everything works out for her. She is Lucky.

    Lucki skates through the story without problem. She has a special appearance, special pokemon, and special gadgets. She wins more than she loses, always beats gym leaders and manages to travel around at breakneck speed (three consecutive chapters take place in a single day, and the entire story is thirteen days long). She faces challenges, yes, but challenges are not the same things are problems, especially when the main character views them as nothing more than annoying and temporary inconveniences. She has a starter described as young, timid and petite, but that doesn't cause her problems in battle and despite supposed timidity, that same squirtle ends up talking about how great Lucki after a fight. The same goes for the rest of her team. They don't have goals separate from hers. Even pokemon that seem to have lives of their own, such as a tropius that just saved his family and friends, happily and inexplicably abandon all of it to join Lucki.

    Do people notice anything off? Yes and no. There's a somewhat ambivalent attitude in some of the replies here, but no one actually manages to work it out. You're capable of noticing that she gets a flareon and complaining about that, but are easily pacified with a loss against an eevee. A few people did manage to notice the translators are used inconsistently, but weren't able to really follow up on it. Most other things went entirely unmentioned. People could see a few of the surface issues, but not the underlying problems.

    In the post-thirteen chapters, I simply allowed the existing problems to appear. They weren't created by the absol. The absol acts to negate whatever is suppressing the problems, but understand, this was how things should have been from the start.

    Reread the story and it's all there. The girl back in Chapter Seven who said Silver wasn't a battler? You know, the one who Lucki called a jealous ***** for her comments, and you agreed? She was telling the truth. The story explicitly says in the first chapter that shiny pokemon are rarely as strong as their normal counterparts, and Silver is described, over and over again, as tiny, young, timid, and petite. She was not capable of being a good battler. Flare had abandonment issues anyone but Lucki could have seen from orbit, and his losses in battle are more from Lucki's utter lack of a strategy for him than any weakness on his part, not that it stops her from blaming him for it. Tryke? Was a little kid who'd gotten out of sight of his parents. Saurius leaves with Lucki right after his herd was shown to be at risk of poaching. It's inevitable that it would happen again, just as it's inevitable that Lucki, who only teamed up with Saurius because she wanted to get back at Magma for stealing her pokemon, wouldn't do anything when she heard the news.

    And the absol. The absol fought tooth and nail against capture, but Lucki caught her anyway.

    You thought Lucki was being kind and understanding when she refused to let Fara go, disparaged her reasons, and condescendingly decided the only real reason Fara could possibly not want to abandon her life in order to be beaten up for a stranger's glory was that Fara didn't know how nice and wonderful trainers are. You thought Lucki was being nice when she told Fara she knew more about absol than an absol and brushed off Fara's warning as she'd brushed off Fara's demand for release. Not because of kindness. Because Fara was rare and beautiful and strong and Lucki wanted her, nothing more.

    Fara told Lucki to release her three times. Lucki refused three times.

    Lucki is you.

    Because that's the other half, your reaction. You cheered her on. You assumed she was in the right. By the end, Lucki is outright abusive to Flare, and you don't notice. Raiden has a nightmare, and you brush it off as unrelated to actual events. Saurius' herd is recaptured, but you don't think anything of Lucki just continuing on her way. Silver has a breakdown, and you notice how inconvenient it is for Lucki. Keegan saves Lucki's life, but when Lucki finds out he's in Team Magma and declares him her enemy, you're rushing to the end right along with her. You agreed with what she did.

    So the good guys are whoever's helping her, and the bad guys are whoever isn't. Who needs to wonder at their reasons? She's always right and other people are always wrong. Anyone who criticizes her is doing it out of jealousy, because no one could be better or kinder or know more than her. She says she's friends with her pokemon but only notices them when they're inconvenient and doesn't have or want an equal relationship with any of them. She never has to sacrifice what she wants for what they want, and she never would. She doesn't think about anyone else but herself, because after all, she's the only one important.

    So she destroys the world to get back at a boy who saved her life and a pokemon who would have died for her.

    This is the story of a girl...who cried a river and drowned the whole world.
  3. Pink Parka Girl

    Pink Parka Girl Solana! ^^

    Wow, I would have never guessed YOU were actually behind the whole persona of icemew, Farla. And the hilarious thing about it is, icemew was probably one of my least favorite people in the whole of the fanfic section. Don't worry, I don't hold anything against you for pulling this prank - in fact, I can't stop giggling about how I - and in fact, everyone - was pretty much fooled. :) You're a genius for managing to pull this off.

    Unto the fic itself - seen it around a few times, tried reading it, but it just didn't catch my interest since at the time, I thought it was a seriously written almost-Sue with the world's most outrageous absol :p But, understanding it as the parody it is...I'm just amazed at the skill and self control to pull all that off. :)

    (It must have been hell for you to capitalize all those pokemon names, though! :p )
  4. Air Dragon

    Air Dragon Ha, ha... not.

    That was quite a unique ending, icemew. Lucki lost the confidence of her pokemon and ends up with fara and silver only. guess i understand why flare left...

    your battle scenes were a little sketchy as far as description is concerned, though. you could have fleshed out the raiden vs.Sadiki battle more. oh well, it was good as it is. only error i picked out was:

    that should be were gashes.

    all in all, an ending inuncertainity... what happens next is only up to you.

    Good luck and keep writing!

  5. Farla

    Farla Banned

    why.............because of DOING STUFF LIKE THIS???? i don't understand WHAT could possibly have BEEN ANNOYING about ME :/ :/ ??????? Or was it my awesome arguing skill.......of vagueness? Or the way I liked to pop up and talk about how Lucki is TOTALLY NOT A MARY SUE??? I AM GREAT! LOL FLAREON ;136; I IS GUD RITER. U R JUST JELOS.

    The only thing better than having to write about a hundred pages of capitalized pokemon names is that now I have to go through and remove them all for reposting.

    Life is suffering.

    Confidence? Not really.

    Nope, the only reason Silver doesn't run off immediately is because she doesn't have anywhere to run. And Lucki never had the absol in the first place.

    Do you?

    Rain falls, everybody dies.
  6. DarkPersian479

    DarkPersian479 Well-Known Member

    Well, congratulations, you fooled the majority of the fanfic forum. I hope you're proud of yourself.

    Okay, I sampled your work on FFN, only having seen your "Unoriginality trainer" previously(and not knowing of your other works" and trying to incorporate some of its ideas. Apparently I failed miserably since I was part of your little "experiment.") (Which, by the way, I am NOT happy about, but for your ego, I'll let it slide.)

    But I also sampled some of your others, and apparently you're one of them. The writers who despise trainers, the ones who think Pokemon trainers are the spawn of Satan for removing Pokemon from their natural habitat (where they are likely PREYED UPON/must compete with others of their species for food) and forcing them to battle (in a controlled situation where they will "faint" long before their battle injuries become lethal) and live with them (where they will be given a steady source of food).

    Seriously, most everything you have written is, "trainers are evil," "trainers don't understand the Pokemon," "Pokemon would rather live in the wild." If Pokemon are truly superior to humans, as you assert over and over in your readings, would it not make sense that they enslave the humans and force them to battle, set up leagues, etc? But it is the humans who have set up that infrastructure. Why? It is because they have the REASONING ability to do so. They have developed a systematic, controlled method for allowing Pokemon to battle, yet making sure that injuries are moderate at worst and that at no time are the lives of Pokemon are threatened.

    Trainers provide Pokemon with a sort of life that would be impossible in the wild (gourmet restaurant cooking and $170 four-star resort hotels, anyone?) and most mean well. Hell, Pokemon should be GRATEFUL for being afforded the exclusive, glorious, and prestigious privilege to have the opportunity to battle alongside a human partner. Or maybe they prefer living in a cold cruel environment where death is always waiting to strike?

    My fic will continue as planned despite your excessive rants and manipulation of reviewers who meant well. I like OT fics, and I prefer them to be without the emo and angst of Pokemon who want to kill their trainer, without long winded psychological rants from PETA supporters about how removing them from their environment is cruel and inhumane, and without rants on how anyone who uses a Pokeball and catches a Pokemon is evil and deserves to burn in the eternal pits of hell.

    So maybe I should do a parody of all the anti-trainer angst fics, just as you have done to the WELL WRITTEN trainer fics. And BTW, from my fic it should be obvious that I am not emo/angsty, so your works really did not appeal to me on FF.net, aside from "Originality trainer." which did admittedly have its good advice.

    On an unrelated note, setting up a double account here is blatantly against the rules.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2007
    TheWanderingMist likes this.
  7. Typhlogirl

    Typhlogirl keep battling on!


    Last edited: Apr 15, 2007
  8. woesofthenorm

    woesofthenorm Fan of Scary Pokemon

    Hey, I just saw the first chapter of this... the EXACT SAME ONE, posted on fanfiction.net, by an authoress by the name of Farla... any explanation? I know you have all the later chapters here, but it's either:

    1. She stole from you and will continue to or is just using the first chapter

    2. You stole from her and added to the first chapter... but I doubt it because she just added it like, yesterday.

    3. You ARE her!

    I don't know, but I'm mighty curious! Care to tell?
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2007
  9. Divinity_123

    Divinity_123 shove 'er in! ;O


    OMG, ROFLMAO! You do know that Farla is icemew, right? ;D

    Yeah, I read the first few chapters but never really commented. What can I say, Lucki's Lucky. Anyways, skipped the backbone of the story, and read the ending. Still can't believe this was one big *** parody. Well, I'm swamped.

    Divinity_123 ;196;
  10. Farla

    Farla Banned

    Yes. Yes, I am.

    Seriously, if I did, I wouldn't read near exclusively OT fics, and I wouldn't have multiple OT fics on my favorites list.

    I say horrible things about pet owners, you know. I am one. I know nice people who are ones. But this doesn't mean pets are universally well treated or that their owners are uniformly wonderful people who never do anything wrong. People can point out problems without hating everything involved.

    In the real world, I care about animal rights. When there are no rules protecting animals, animals are horribly abused. In the pokemon world, there are few if any rules protecting them. My fanfiction is mainly about that point.

    And believe me, most wild animals seem to like being preyed upon over captivity. The battling issue is an interesting one, but missing a crucial point - pokemon in the wild aren't battling constantly. It's not the simply the difference between being healed or not healed.

    Even if it somehow were, justifying what you're doing by "well, in another situation it would be worse" is pretty harsh.

    Well, yes.

    Just about everyone else is writing stories where it's not an issue, so of course I would.

    And really, superiority isn't the issue. It's wrong to beat horses to death even through horses are obviously not as intelligent as humans. Just because you feed and house the horse does not make it okay to force them to drag overloaded carts.

    The poultry industry has developed a method of preventing hens from pecking each other. It involves searing off their beaks.

    Meanwhile, to avoid any injuries to breeding sows, they've kept in complete isolation their entire lives in pens too narrow to turn around in.

    Inexplicably, people sometimes argue that maybe, this is not necessarily the nicest thing we've ever done for the little dears.

    Yes, and African slaves were much safer than they were back in Africa. They also got to experience many new things.

    I'm quite sure there are some pokemon that like battling, as there are some people who, say, like boxing. I'm equally sure that there are others don't like battling, and that if they wanted to be caught, they wouldn't be desperately fighting to not be caught. I'd also believe some pokemon might, just possibly, value things like "basic freedom" or "family" or perhaps "not getting beaten up all day".

    Simple game: If you were in their position, what would you want?

    ...okay. You did notice none of Lucki's pokemon wanted to kill her, right? And that there were no rants in the story? Or that the crux of the issue was that Lucki wasn't evil, just self-centered? No?

    It's ridiculous to argue my views are extreme if you're using hyperbole the whole time.

    Sure! I'm really tired of the exaggerated ones where the trainer is just running around trying to be evil.

    This story is not well written. I'd know, as I wrote it. I mean seriously.

    At any rate, the message of this to the real well written trainer fics is simply to consider the existence of things that aren't convenient. Don't define the world around your character's view alone. Let other characters have separate identities and goals. If you don't want to deal with pokemon that don't want to be trained, actually ask them, and actually release ones who refuse instead of saying the trainer knows better. Consider that pokemon, especially intelligent speaking ones, have lives of their own and might have other things they want to do.

    Pokemon should be characters of their own with their own desires, not a variant of pokebots that have voices just so they can agree with their trainer.

    Eh. I'm switching accounts, not using both. I'd have just changed the name, but because of how delayed that is here, I wouldn't have been able to get the timing right.

    ...says the girl with nearly seven hundred posts on this site alone. But yes, I see your point.

    Thanks, woesofthenorm, but yes, I'm either icemew or I've hacked their account to prevent them from saying otherwise. On Farla's FFN profile, there's actually a link that leads back here.

    Well, it's not a parody as people usually think of them, which makes it easy to miss.
  11. DarkPersian479

    DarkPersian479 Well-Known Member

    Goody! You think I'm completely off my rocker! Or you think I'm a complete idiot! Debate time!

    Yes, because the cops just let criminals do as they please and incidents of trainers blasting their disobedient Pokemon's heads off with M-16 assault rifles are an hourly occurrence in the Pokemon world :/

    And BTW, I eat between 5 and 10 hamburgers a day. Interpret that how you will.

    Wow, wild animals must be more emo than I thought. Maybe its suicide negotiators and psychologists and Zoloft that the Pokemon world really needs!

    And in the wild, there's nobody to throw in the towel or forfeit. Just like with wild animals, battles are either for SURVIVAL or for SUPREMACY OF THEIR HERD. When these issues come into play, a wild creature is not going to stop an assault simply because its foe is unconscious. They will continue until the target has suffered critical injury (in a battle for leadership) or is DEAD. This can happen whether the creature gets in one duel a day or 56.

    Evice, Greevil, Ardos, and the rest of the Cipher Admins would like to argue this point. And seriously, I'm now starting to think maybe Shadow Pokemon aren't such a bad idea. Yes, I'm evil; deal.

    Do you have a solution that does not involve everyone in the known universe going vegan? If so, share with the industry!

    I can take prison on. Name the time, number of years, and correctional facility. Try to make it maximum security if you can. I like a challenge.

    Not this one, since it was not written as such (After all, that would have given your charade away), but I have seen plenty of one-shots that completely shove this down the reader's throat. And yes, those fics do annoy me to no end.

    I'm talking about the ones where the trainer is actually nice, but the Pokemon is too stubborn/emo/stupid to realize it.

    I'm talking about a parody where the Pokemon rejects capture, goes back to be abused by its pack-leader, gets sent out alone, gets mauled by a bigger Pokemon, then in the afterlife sees another one of its fellow species living it up with its trainer at the Hilton (and earning rewards points AND frequent flyer miles, I might add) and goes, "OH SNAPZ THIS IS WHAT I MISSED OUT ON?"

    And yes, I primarily see things through the TRAINER'S POV. Weird, huh?

    So, you tryin' to imply my fic sucks, since it was an obvious target of this whole thing? Meh, doesn't really matter to me; my harsh reviews have garnered me plenty of enemies here. One more made by arguing a point ain't gonna send me cryin' home to mommy.

    And BTW, in my fic, except for that Nidorino early on, ALL of my Pokemon like to battle. You can't really argue against it since they willingly battle and they don't voice complaints (they don't talk), and they don't rebel. Now, I could put in some attempted capture where the Pokemon doesn't want to go along, to satisfy you, but that would just be tacked on.

    How do you deal with bred/gift Pokemon, since several of mine fall under that category? Even if they have some natural instinct to go back into the wild, they do not have the experience or the wild training to survive in such an environment. Which is the more cruel choice there, captivity, or releasing it into an environment it was never accustomed to?

    So, much as I like a good debate, I'm going to end it here to avoid a flame war.
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2007
    TheWanderingMist likes this.
  12. Farla

    Farla Banned

    To reiterate, it is absurd for you to accuse me of extreme beliefs when you're reduced to using hyperbole to do so.

    No, some creatures just don't like being confined in near isolation for their entire lives.

    Animals really are a bit smarter than people often give them credit for. And it's quite easy to test them for things like stress hormones, or to note captive animals in small cages start behaving abnormally or even injuring themselves, or that, while they don't die of starvation, they also are often sickly or suffer from what's scientifically termed "failure to thrive", and don't live out a maximum lifespan either. This varies depending, of course, on animal (unsocial ones with low intelligence tend to not care about their surroundings) and care.

    Actually, battles are rarely for survival and your trite bit about herds outright laughable. Most fatal wild animal "battles" are a large animal eating a smaller one. Most interspecies competition (SUPREMACY OF THEIR HERD!!!) is, in fact, nonfatal and often accomplished without any injures at all, and many SURVIVAL!!! "battles" are nonfatal competition over food or territory. Many animals also have a behavioral equivalent of throwing in the towel, as well - dogs, for example, roll over to expose their stomachs - or will simply flee. (And virtually no animal on the face of the entire planet fights to the death over "leadership". Research. It won't hurt you.) Animals don't spend all their time ripping each other apart. Assume for a moment I might actually have some knowledge of biology, ecology and animal behavior.

    You don't seem to understand what I meant, possibly because you know nothing on the subject. Animals in the wild don't spend a lot of time fighting each other. As to if an individual pokemon would rather face near constant fighting, but have a very low chance of death, or occasional fighting with a higher chance of death, it would depend on temperament and species - a short-lived prey species would probably not mind the tradeoff, while those that tend to have longer, calmer lives would.

    Additionally, you're making the same mistake a lot of people make, addressed by Raiden. Battling is painful. I would not want to be injured repeatedly even if the injuries were not permanent because it's going to hurt. Some pokemon might not mind, but "it's fixed later" doesn't mean it didn't happen in the first place.

    The bad guys would argue that superiority does allow you to abuse others? Okay. And you're saying this is a rebuttal to my point how...?

    Actually, I was not making any statement about eating meat, merely addressing the idea that a "method" of doing something is inherently more humane than the alternative. At any rate, the "solution" is to not pack the animals into tight spaces, which is already perfectly well known. The reason the bird's beaks - which, for the record, are not like your nails but more like your hands in terms of sensitivity - are seared off is because the birds here are kept in lots with about the space of a piece of paper per bird, to maximize profit-per-area. They wouldn't be pecking each other to death if they weren't literally packed from wall to wall. Similarly, there is no reason why the sows, which are intelligent, social animals, need to be kept in total isolation their entire lives.

    This happens because it is marginally cheaper to keep them in far more brutal confinement and it is not illegal, not because it is in any way necessary.

    Regulated "methods" may be better than a theoretical alternative, but that doesn't mean they're automatically good in and of themselves. Don't argue something is good simply because it's regulated.

    I must at this point ask if you are actually reading what I said, since this appears staggeringly irrelevant to the question.

    I'm deeply sorry. Unfortunately, some readers are very stupid, and if I do not make myself clear, will start to ascribe patently ridiculous opinions to me, like the idea occasional abuse refers to trainers running around with assault rifles.

    Ah! Idiotic behavior that will make no contextual sense, because you have no reason for why they would behave that way, but are doing so solely to get back at someone who holds different opinions and who has angered you, and additionally is done without the benefit of any knowledge of actual behavior, either animal or human. Yes, that's most definitely a good way to get back at me. I really do hate badfic. You could throw in some misspellings too.

    Or, oddly, perhaps something I'm well aware of and that is a significant reason for why I try to write about things from a different POV than everyone else.

    AHAHAHAHA you're special really.

    Yes. I spent an entire year writing a story just to target YOU. Because YOU are such an awesome writer. Really. Even though there was no evidence I was even aware of you until midway through, I was TOTALLY seething about your story. Because you are just SO AWESOME.

    I'm just jealous, in fact, of your awesome writing. I most definitely did not leave references to the real inspirations of this scattered throughout like flameworthy easter eggs, nor do I normally avoid this forum and only read stories on FFN, because that would mean the inspiration was only from stories posted there rather than your story, which, as you've stated, is clearly not true.

    In fact, I was so aiming at your story, I used my time machine to go back in time and begin posting this two months before you.

    Because that is how incredibly important to me your fanfic was.

    Oh yes. "Harsh". That is definitely the word for it. I will cease my attempts to force you to stop (which I was totally trying to do) for I couldn't possibly hope to go against one who has enemies from her harsh reviews, something so very foreign to my experience.

    1) You are so right that my story solely revolves around yours and are not being stupid or an egomaniac at all.
    2) Yes, exactly My point wasn't that pokemon wouldn't willingly battle or that having those pokemon exist is wrong. It was that trying to avoid the issue by making all pokemon want to battle despite the fact that, statistically, there should be plenty that don't, is a common mistake of convenience in OT fanfiction, where things simply work out nicely for the protagonist.

    By not assuming it's an either/or situation.

    Wild animals raised as pets cannot be put back into the wild. It's even more impossible for domestic animals. You've made them so they can't live on their own, and you now have a responsibility to care for them.

    That said, using the fact you have to take care of them and that they cannot survive on their own as justification for being able to do whatever you want with them is wrong. A pet cougar cannot be returned to the wild. This does not mean that the man who decided to keep it in his small apartment was not doing something wrong. Similarly, that a pug should be kept as a pet and not abandoned in the wild does not mean it was okay to keep a young pug around as a chew toy for a larger, more aggressive dog.

    Captivity is not a catch-all term. Confining an animal in a small cage is obviously different than confining them in a large park. This isn't a simplistic right/wrong, captivity/freedom bit. If you'd take a few breaths, consider that Lucki's pokemon serve to explain the facets of the situation.

    Silver is a bred pokemon who is socialized with humans and is frightened by battles. She's also a newly hatched infant. She'd like being someone's pet, especially if there were other squirtle for her to be friends with, and wouldn't mind being a contest pokemon. However, with Lucki she's been forced into situations she doesn't want, and is trapped because, by nature of her bred status, she can't leave. Even if she could run away or demand release, she has nowhere to go. In the end, Silver has had a breakdown, is clear that she is only there because she can't leave, and Lucki sends her out again. Lucki didn't create the situation Silver is in, but she took advantage of it rather than caring about Silver.

    Flare has absolutely no problem with battles. He's also socialized with humans. Lucki is neglectful and emotionally abusive of him. The problem is how she treats him, not the basic situation. He would have been happy belonging to someone like the Team Magma boy, who actually wants him and would pay attention to him. Flare doesn't simply run off. He leaves for another trainer who will treat him differently.

    Raiden is a child. He belongs with his family, who have been left without knowing if he's even alive, and although he doesn't mind battling itself, he's too young to be able to take the brutality of many upper-level battles. Perhaps as an adult he'd want to belong to a trainer.

    Saurius is an example of pokemon that has other responsibilities and goals. He has friends and family, and ones that need his protection. He simply has no reason to want to be with a trainer.

    And the absol says that she does not want to belong to Lucki. Responding to a pokemon clearly expressing its wishes with "oh, you're just stupid, you really do want to belong to a trainer and just don't know it" is no different than saying "that's nice, but I don't care", only with the added bonus of being insulting while you do it.
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2007
  13. DarkPersian479

    DarkPersian479 Well-Known Member

    I'm not posting to argue, just to clear up a few points:

    This is not directed at you. My point WAS, if there were no policies to keep trainers from abusing Pokemon, then such extreme events would be commonplace. But they are not, so clearly the Pokemon that are owned by trainers must be protected by some sort of law or code of ethics.

    I am not saying it is good. I am saying that if there was a better way to handle the situation, wouldn't they be using it instead?

    You asked if I was willing to go without freedom, family, and risk getting beaten up. I said that I was game.

    I will once again state that that comment is an example of what would happen if there truly were no policies protecting Pokemon. Since obviously Pokemon are not gunned down, then such protective policies against abuse ARE in place.

    And I do not appreciate being called stupid simply because my views are different or because my statements were interpreted in the wrong way.

    This was just a stupid, spur of the moment idea I had. And I admit that it was not well thought out. It will not come to fruition. I still do not think it is fair to make assumptions about my writing ability based on that alone.

    I am not saying I am special in any way. As you stated before:
    I KNOW that I am just one of several (and probably nowhere near the best out of the bunch). I am simply using mine as an example. Notice I said, "AN obvious target," not "THE obvious target."

    And though you did post this before mine, even you must admit that mine was one (OF SEVERAL, I must reiterate) that match the type you are attempting to parody to a "T." And clearly you have read enough of my story to put in your fake reviews under your "icemew" facade that you could have inserted elements from mine to parody in later chapters. Whether you did or not, in the end, readers can easily see that it is exactly the type you parodied here, especially since I reviewed here and "icemew" reviewed there. And, not to beat a dead horse, but there are several others that are better than mine that also fit this criteria.

    I mentioned above that this is not true. Hell, I don't even have a good literary background. I do not make any claims at all of being the best. I am simply using mine as an example.

    Okay, fine. Apparently you are the expert on the subject and I am just the n00b. Apparently the TV documentaries only tell half the story. I'm sorry, I can't argue that point. I concede defeat.

    And yes, I must admit you have valid points here as well. Still, I am finding it much harder to differentiate my Pokemon personalities since they do not communicate by speaking. My trainer has captured several Pokemon that are currently in storage at a lab. Maybe I could work with some of them where a few are not keen on the idea of captivity.

    I suppose my harsh replies were in part because of initial shock that one of my followed fics was a lie and fics that matched the genre of mine were the ones being parodied, especially since I enjoy trainer fics in general. I was also not happy with the fact that my reviews of Lucki were just part of your elaborate scheme.

    But now, having some time to think with a clear mind, you've made it apparent that the author need make only small to moderate changes to remedy that situation. I am stupid for not realizing that, and I apologize for my stupidity. I think it is clear that we do have differing opinions on the whole Pokemon/Trainer relationship, but I can accept that.

    Once again, I do not profess that I am a great writer. Indeed, I have much to learn, and, in your own unique and somewhat brutally honest way, you pointed out a major flaw in my (and others') writing. So, I hope that we can mutually agree that there is more than one way to interpret the Pokemon universe.

    I am truly sorry if any of my debate points offended you in any way, as they were made spur of the moment and do not represent the manner in which I usually conduct myself.
  14. Typhlogirl

    Typhlogirl keep battling on!

    ...says the girl who spent a year of her life writing an eighteen chapter Pokemon Fanfic to prove a point. =3 And I'm glad you see mine.

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