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Make Or Break Moments with Characters for you

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by DatsRight, Jul 23, 2020.

  1. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    Basically with all the hindsight opinion threads about past series and characters, let's get more intricate. What key moments defined your opinion of one of the main characters for you? Ones that either made you love them and be truly invested in them, or made you loathe them or just realise they weren't going the direction you wanted.

    I'll start with some examples:

    * Kiawe: Kiawe was on an okay run in early SM, but Turtonator for a long while was the least shown Pokemon of the group and they had barely any spotlight episodes. It was the Akala arc where Kiawe caught Marowak and we saw some subtle character development as a trainer, that I realised he was going to subvert the usual 'male companion curse'. Plus Marowak completing the comic dynamic within his group.

    * Mallow: The fact it took Mallow far longer than any other SM protagonist to get a spotlight episode, and when it came, it was a generic TR interrupted plot, was the foreboding sign they hadn't much for her to do. Indeed it was mostly downhill for a long while, with her episodes usually the dullest and her usually being the least likely to take part in the main antics, as well as Tsareena annoyingly fully evolving with pretty much zero agency from her. Weirdly, I think what started to make me change my mind a little wasn't the Tapu Fini episode like many, but Shaymin's limelight episode in the Maile City mini arc, since, despite being another TR plot, it was the first episode to give Shaymin a personality and focus a lot on Mallow's distinct bonds with a Pokemon and how they contrast others (I loved how while Sandy was a little hellion who drove Lana crazy, Shaymin was pretty much Mallow's shy little angel).
    NeedsAName and Applecorp like this.
  2. Leonhart

    Leonhart Imagineer

    For me the moment that cemented my appreciation for the Rocket-dan [in particular Nyasu] was EP070 since it was an episode almost entirely featuring the Rocket-dan trio and we got Nyasu's backstory. Had that episode not aired, I probably wouldn't have cared about the Rocket-dan trio and I would've seen them as just another cliche anime villain group.
  3. Applecorp

    Applecorp Well-Known Member

    The first episode if that counts? When Ash saved Pikachu from the Spearows it made me respect him a lot because he put his life at risk to protect a bratty Pokemon that didn't deserve his sympathy.
    NeedsAName, catzeye, Ubermuk and 3 others like this.
  4. SerGoldenhandtheJust

    SerGoldenhandtheJust Well-Known Member

    The thing that broke Alain's character for me was Mega Evolution special 4 and then the following XYZ stupid storyline he had. Until Mega evolution special 3 I really liked him. His character arc had great potential but was done in such a clumsy way. @AuraChannelerChris calls him a failed anakin and that makes me laugh lol, so true

    For bonnie her XYZ arc for me was incredible. Bonnie was a great character and her bond with squishy was adorable. She was what max should have been, done right.

    For mallow, that dead mother episode really made me appreciate her so much more. I always loved her personality and chemistry but that episode was special.

    I don't think I have had any other break/make moments for other characters per say, to my current memory rn. Will update if I think of more.
  5. Leonhart

    Leonhart Imagineer

    From my perspective, that whole Zygarde arc is exactly what "broke" her character for me. I thought that Eureka was only somewhat irritating before she met Puni-chan, but things got ramped up when she actually befriended it and started getting involved in the events that followed in Miare City during the Flare-dan's attack. I suppose that I just don't like it when characters who have small roles at the beginning of a saga end up becoming important later through improbable means. I also didn't like the idea of a main cast member befriending a Legendary Pokemon outside of movies, although by the time that Satoshi caught Meltan in SM I no longer cared.
  6. BabaVanga

    BabaVanga Well-Known Member

    Whenever Ash stopped being snarky. I'm not sure if it happened in Johto or in Hoenn but I never liked him as much as before, though SM restored my appreciation for him.

    As for other characters, didn't really care for Iris and Cilan until Nacrene Museum episode but after that I grow to like them. Opposite thing happened with Serena, I really liked her in the first two seasons but XYZ kind of ruined her character for me (I despise crossdressing episode and snowball fight scene, for example).
  7. Spider-Phoenix

    Spider-Phoenix #ChespinGang

    Same here. It was that moment that sold the series to me and made Ash my favorite character.
    Moonlight Starlight and Ubermuk like this.
  8. Pokegirl Fan~

    Pokegirl Fan~ ^Me whenever I visit the PAD

    What broke Serena for me was the first year of XY where she was mostly neglected, particularly around the time where they felt more obligated to give Korrina a 5 episode arc over the entire main cast who needed the screentime, especially Serena, who definitely needed the screentime the most since she was supposedly the female lead instead of a gym leader who was never going to be a part of the main cast. I guess the last straw for me was when she never finished a one on one battle and the only thing that gave her focus without anyone interrupting or upstaging her, which were the showcase competitions, were wrapped up way too early before the series ended. The Showcases werent that great in general though and she should have just entered the anime version of contests instead. I've warmed up to her recently and she's not that bad and is pretty likeable but its pretty obvious to me that she wasn't handled all that great during her run.
  9. Ubermuk

    Ubermuk Sticky & Sweet

    Unlike others I tend to either love or hate characters the moment they appear so my thoughts on them don't change unless something drastic happens....

    Those rare cases were Serena finally getting a goal after like a year of nothing and Iris getting some backstory in the Scolipede episode. But before those things happened I didn't like either girl.
  10. Sham

    Sham Smile

    Contrary to popular belief I liked Serena...master class episodes and up. Her character was always bad to me but going towards the end of the series I did enjoy these episodes displaying her growth as a person from doing discount contests and her determination to not give up. Her final focus episode was one of the strongest character episodes in this series and really played on a truth on not having a sense of direction. She was seeing all of her friends starting a new path and pursing new goals while she had no idea what she yearned for since the Master Class ended. Making people smile being her true goal was a nice touch and truly selfless. I enjoyed her conclusion of “just drop everything and fly to Hoenn”. Everything other than those episodes were trash though.
    Leonhart likes this.
  11. I didnt care about Lillie at all anymore since the last episode of the Aether Arc. I felt like her story was done. The "case of their missing father" felt like a way to say goodbye and to mirror the end of SM games.
    Applecorp and SerenaRulez like this.
  12. SerenaRulez

    SerenaRulez Well-Known Member

    The make it or break it moment that made me like Serena was the Pokevision episode from the summer camp because it proved to me that even if she had a crush on Ash she could still find something else to do. :)
  13. Zoruagible

    Zoruagible Lover of underrated characters

    I was neutral on Serena throughout XY but her losing every single Showcase due to a mistake or accident made me not care for her anymore. How does it feel like she grew as a character if she never lost because it was her fault? And it makes her rivalries look like an absolute joke, Shauna and Jessie never won because they were better(Hot take: Jessie WAS better in every Showcase, she deserved to go up against Aria and win. Not Serena! Every time it was something different for Jessie while Serena spammed Fire attacks every single freaking time! :rolleyes: ), she never truly grew or had to change up her style heck the finale and how she lost? That was major BS! How is it even fair to let fans judge? Everyone's going to vote for Aria, having fans vote for the big final competition is just complete bull! Why not have a special panel of judges like contests do?!

    Oh and the final nail was making Amelia a COTD yet upgrading Nene from COTD to rival status for no reason at all! What did Nene add? Nothing! Amelia could have added some of that Harley/Ursula charm and truly push Serena. As much as I adore Miette, she's a friend and playfully teased Serena about her crush. Amelia actually would manipulate and hold that over Serena's head and possibly cheat too to get ahead! (She was rich too wasn't she? Could even do something new and say she bribed the audience or judges!)

    They should have just made her a Coordinator to begin with, Showcases just came off as sexist(Aside from the 'no guys allowed' rule, look at the things they did! It was stereotypicaly girly stuff!) and didn't really involve Pokemon in fun and exiting ways! Being a Coordinator to begin with would have fixed a lot of the issues here
  14. TheCrazyMaster

    TheCrazyMaster Well-Known Member

    I would say Lillie's character broke for me after the Aether arc. It took nearly a whole year for her to get a z-ring and use a z-move after getting an Icium Z. Plus the whole Magearna arc felt like deus ex machina after it was revealed that rather than actually trying to figure out what was wrong with Magearna and fix it herself, all she had to do was cry to get it to activate. And the whole "Magearna just happens to know where Daddy is despite having never been activated until today" just felt like an excuse to get Lillie to do something after the series was over.

    Admittedly it's been a long time since i watched B&W, but I also felt like Iris and Cilan fell flat after the League was over with. Prior to that I thought that they avoided the pitfalls that Misty and Brock fell into back in OS (maybe Iris more so than Cilan) in terms of development, but after that they just felt like Misty and Brock but less funny.
    KenzeyEevee and Applecorp like this.
  15. Leonhart

    Leonhart Imagineer

    I really wish that Millefeui had been more like Harley and Urara, instead of her becoming just another semi-friendly rival that simply teased Serena. I really thought that Millefeui was being set up to be a bigger hurdle for Serena too, but that didn't happen.
  16. SerenaRulez

    SerenaRulez Well-Known Member

    What would have made Master Class way more exciting is if Aria didn't exist and Miette had been the Kalos Queen so that she and Serena had competed against each other at the end. :)
  17. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    I can see why the friendly rivals took over because, not only does Jessie already fit the antagonist rival (and being the main effective one gives TR more to do besides comic relief), but her penchant for disguises and shrewder cheating usually allows her to believably get away with it more in a professional competition (while still getting blasted off or suffering slapstick in her worst cases so she wasn't a karma houdini). Harley didn't really make much sense since he was such an out open dirty player and yet never suffered repercussions. I was kinda hoping that by the end of the series, there'd be a 'reality ensues' moment where officials pointed out he'd been caught cheating and harassing other competitors multiple times and disqualified him, would have worked perfectly for an opponent who worked around obsessive destructive hatred.

    The bigger problem for Miette was that she wasn't allowed to pull through in the other area in terms of rivalry; that is being an actual challenge. She never beat Serena in anything and rarely did it even look like Serena had to change her game to outdo her. Surely a character whose best facet is winding up Serena should have got one over her at least once.
    SerenaRulez likes this.
  18. Leonhart

    Leonhart Imagineer

    I wouldn't have wanted that, mostly because it would've been strange to me if Millefeui had advanced past Serena and become Kalos Queen in such a limited span of time. Unless the writers had changed the pacing of XY and made Serena and Millefeui start their TryPokaron careers sooner, I don't think the logistics would've worked in a realistic manner. Elle wasn't my favorite XY character by any means, but she was the best Kalos Queen we could've hoped for.
    LilligantLewis likes this.
  19. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    I didn't mind Lillie afterwards though I admit to being disappointed that she just kinda fizzled out after the AF arc, which did a decent job making her endearing and feel like the secondary protagonist. Sadly after that she had her handful of episodes and didn't get much agency besides that. Even her bond with Ash wasn't put in limelight much afterwards and they waited until the PENULTIMATE episode to give her another Pokemon. The one consolation is that she was still the girl most liable to be free game to the slapstick and silly antics like the shrink ray episode, which kept SOME star power for her in a comedic series like SM (still think that would have been 100 times funnier as a Kiawe episode though :p).

    In hindsight, it's a shame there were no girl-team centric episodes in SM besides the magical girl parody one. The boys got tons of episodes between them to make their development fluid and just to give them a fun vibrant dynamic. After the AF arc Lillie stopped really interacting much with anyone besides Gladion, which brought her down.
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020
    Ubermuk, SerenaRulez and KenzeyEevee like this.
  20. Ubermuk

    Ubermuk Sticky & Sweet

    She wasn't really a Showcase rival any ways and was more of a hype girl for the sake of Amourshipping. What always makes me laugh is that people compared her to Ursula at 1st even though Ursula was way more rude to Dawn than Miette was to Serena...

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