I just interpret it as: Tomioka liked Paul too much and wanted to force me to like him too, so he retconned his character in order to make Paul look better.
I didn't fall for this trap.
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Make Or Break Moments with Characters for you
- Thread starter DatsRight
- Start date
I just interpret it as: Tomioka liked Paul too much and wanted to force me to like him too, so he retconned his character in order to make Paul look better.
I didn't fall for this trap.
The thing about antagonistic rivals like Paul is that everything is coming down to how they are finally defeated and if the way the protagonist triumphs over them is befitting and satisfying enough. Paul was kind of glossed over in the end, which made all his past build up poorer in hindsight because it only furthered him as a karma houdini to many.
This is the same issue I have with Harley, his slimy bully persona felt like everything was building up to a cathartic comeuppance he never really received. How could you not give a ridiculous acting egomaniac like Harley a fitting humiliation conga?
There isn't a make or break moment specifically for these kinds of characters until the end, when everything gets reevaluated.
This is the same issue I have with Harley, his slimy bully persona felt like everything was building up to a cathartic comeuppance he never really received. How could you not give a ridiculous acting egomaniac like Harley a fitting humiliation conga?
There isn't a make or break moment specifically for these kinds of characters until the end, when everything gets reevaluated.
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Leonhart
Imagineer
Ubermuk said:Yeah hardly anyone liked the guy because he was arrogant. Not to mention boring I mean just look at his design. He was like a bad version of Wally.
I've seen people call him the anime's version of Mitsuru, but other than his green hair and usage of Roselia, I don't really see it. Maybe if Ralts had been his ace Pokemon it would be a realistic comparison, but as things stand I think it's sort of a stretch.
SerenaRulez
Well-Known Member
Yeah hardly anyone liked the guy because he was arrogant. Not to mention boring I mean just look at his design. He was like a bad version of Wally.
I always thought Drew was a better rival than Harley because Harley took every thing personally but Drew kept his cool other than that time when he yelled at May.
Also Drew was legitimate competition while Harley was an antagonistic cheater, a role they may as well have kept to Jessie rather than demoting her even lower down the heirarchy. I also found it bewildering Harley never got in trouble for playing dirty or bullying competitors, while Jessie and even May at least got disqualified the odd time. It felt a bit like Faba where they had to kind of break the story to make his role work.
I guess that's the thing though, he didn't really serve great as a personal obstacle for May, since it was often cheating vs plot armour, who can bullcrap their way to victory rather than who can win through skill.
Even DP Jessie served as a better opponent for Dawn because there was some level of experience in play between them.
It is a shame, but in hindsight I wonder if it's because they decided to just use Jessie for the role this time. I appreciated Jessie getting to actually develop and be competent in DP's contests. While with Harley in AG, she was stuck as a redundant second comical rival and was reduced to a jobber.
Team Rocket actually getting to progress and become good at some things was an interesting twist to them. I especially loved how the ramen episode ended up a chekhov's skill for one contest they won.
Captain Jigglypuff
*On Vacation. Go Away!*
Harley was either a hit or miss for me. Some of the episodes he was in were good for his character and there was nothing wrong with his scheming side but then you have episodes where his hatred of May is extremely petty that even OS Ash didn’t dislike Gary for such ridiculous reasons. I’m mainly talking about how that girl who stole and ate his last snack looked like May and that’s why he hates her which is just ridiculous because Harley looks to be about fifteen or older and May is only ten and this incident happened when he was about five and May was a literal baby if she was even born when the event happened.Harley might have been an ass but he was funny to watch. Him tricking Max into giving him intel and his alliance with Jessie, James and Meowth were some of his best moments. I always wanted him to be a full time villain.
Leonhart
Imagineer
Applecorp said:Harley might have been an ass but he was funny to watch. Him tricking Max into giving him intel and his alliance with Jessie, James and Meowth were some of his best moments. I always wanted him to be a full time villain.
I thought that his alliance with the Rocket-dan was hilarious, mainly because it was clear to us that he was using the trio, yet it seemed like Musashi actually thought she had the advantage in terms of underhandedness. Even if Musashi had beaten Haruka and kept her end of the bargain, Harley would've blasted off the Rocket-dan in an instant.
LilligantLewis
Bonnie stan
Speaking of Drew, I saw this on twitter yesterday and thought it was hilarious. Don't think I realized Brock was jealous of Drew when I saw this when I was younger https://twitter.com/itstimetodrew/status/1306392589315309569?s=20
I thought AG was the lowest point for TR, and I think it was because they kept getting easily outdone even by equally low tier antagonists like Harley. ANYONE plus their grandma could make TR their straw loser in that series (except Butch and Cassidy apparently, which shows how much they had fallen from grace as well). It was actually getting kinda painful to watch them they had sunk that low.
Harley felt like a petty ridiculous antagonist, a character that could be funny but was boosted as more of a threat than he actually was, pushing TR even further down the chain, and never really getting his comeuppance. It felt like an egomaniacal manchild that spent his days obsessively bullying a little girl over some deranged reason should have gone out in a fittingly pitiful humiliation conga, it's weird he always got to keep his dignity.
Actually, did AG and DP punish ANY of their non-TR villains/assholes? I remember karma houdini moments happening a lot in those two series.
DP kept TR pitiful and moronic as well, but by then it had gotten so bad that they liked switching it around as a twist sometimes, letting them have odd moments of competence or actually ACCOMPLISHING something.
Funny how they were at their dumbest in Sinnoh but that was the series where they got credit for beating a rival villain team and got a promotion from Gio at the end.
Pokegirl Fan~
Liko>>>>>Ash
Korrina was a terrible character though. I don't think I could have stomached having mega Lucario shoved down our throats for over 140 episodes. Along with Korrina having a super obnoxious voice in the English dub lol
Ubermuk
Sticky & Sweet
'Like fingernails on a blackboard' whoa I knew Brock could be sassy sometimes but that's no way for him to talk about Max's TPCi voice.
Sham
The Guardian of War
I'm not watching the dub so can't really comment on that. I mean I'm not sure why most people hate her besides her having a Lucario but I like her personality in general.
From what I remember she was voiced by Lisa Ortiz, who has a tendency to use the exact same voice for most of her 'chirpy young girl' characters (eg. Amy Rose, Alexis).
I feel like Korrina as she was conveyed was only really meant to last one arc, at the very least they would have had to expanded her character and team a fair bit more to make her work a whole series, not that it was impossible per se.