" Manga We Want To See Animated " Poll: Pokemon Special May Get Animated

[shoz999]

I'm not...? Gore is an umbrella term for exposed innards, excessive blood, graphic wounds, etc. Blood and gore are usually categorized as two different things when talking about entertainment.



Where??? Ain't no kids shows showing melting eyes, broken bones poking through flesh, or exposed sinew.



Oh God where to start with this... while I agree that the decapitation in Lord of the Rings is not gore (from what I remember you don't see much of anything), the movie is still rated M here and is inappropriate for children. I don't really remember the scene but I don't remember much blood. Personally I wouldn't put my kid through it more because it's a snoozefest than because it has a bit of blood in it. As mentioned above, organs and meat are indeed gore.

1. The decomposition of the body shown here is literally not gore. Exposed innards and graphic wounds are often associated with gore because there's usually an amount of blood associated to it. Otherwise you might as well throw in the Magic School Bus in there.
2. Here's a link from one of the more modern Spongebob episodes. Here's another link from one of the classic Spongebob episodes, this one is literally a favorite among kids. Recommend you start at 3:43 for the second link. Enjoy this goofy silly kids show to your heart's content.

 

[Prof. SALTY]

1. The decomposition of the body shown here is literally not gore. Exposed innards and graphic wounds are often associated with gore because there's usually an amount of blood associated to it. Otherwise you might as well throw in the Magic School Bus in there.
2. Here's a link from one of the more modern Spongebob episodes. Here's another link from one of the classic Spongebob episodes, this one is literally a favorite among kids. Recommend you start at 3:43 for the second link. Enjoy this goofy silly kids show to your heart's content.

"gruesomeness depicted in vivid detail"
- Merriam Webster dictionary

The first link was close but the second was way more cartoony than what was shown in the manga. I'm tellin' you that sh*t ain't gonna fly these days.

 

[Shadao]

The thing about Spongebob is that it's part of Nickelodeon, which is known for gross-out humor and parental bonuses.

Pokémon is a different matter altogether. It is part of Nintendo, who likes to be seen as a Disney-esque company and would not like to be caught dead in a controversy with moral guardians breathing on their necks.

You may notice that the Pokémon Anime was a lot more violent in the early days. It has references to guns, hints of gore (Metapod cut in half), alcohol, and religious references. Now they are gone or downplayed for one reason: International audience.

This is why "The Legend of Dratini" has never been released on international territories, translated and all. Can you imagine what news media looking for clickbait articles would do if such an episode would be released?

"BREAKING NEWS: Old Pokémon Episode released and translated featuring GUNS pointed at children!"

"ANALYSIS: Is Pokémon as FAMILY-FRIENDLY as Nintendo claims to be?"

This will be a PR nightmare for Nintendo. The mere showcase of decaying corpses of Pokémon will be a frenzy if the slew of articles talking about how "Charmander's screams in Origins is somehow proof that Origins is Darker and Edgier than the Ash Ketchum's journey" is anything to go by.

 

[shoz999]

"gruesomeness depicted in vivid detail"
- Merriam Webster dictionary

The first link was close but the second was way more cartoony than what was shown in the manga. I'm tellin' you that sh*t ain't gonna fly these days.

1. Merriam Webster dictionary also defines it as "BLOOD. especially clotted blood.
Dictionary. com also definse it as "blood that is shed, especially when clotted." or "murder, bloodshed, violence"
Oxford dictionary defines it as "Blood that has been shed, especially as a result of violence."
Cambridge Dictionary defines it as "blood that has come from an injury and becomes thick"

My point still stands that gore is heavily associated or is excessive use of blood, otherwise your definition not only also applies to the Spongebob cartoons and the Lord of the Ring movies but also tons of Nintendo games from not just the 90s but also in modern times like Xenoblade Chronicles, Kirby Star Allies or Okami. You wouldn't label those games or even the level designs as gory even though the level designs contained inside massive beings containing tons of organs, stomach acid and other flesh would you? And before you go on, you and I both know there's a ton of kid-friendly games that use the classic "inside the body" level that features this kind of content. This isn't simply a trend, it's a overused trope popularized by Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time and won't die in a long time.

2. Which brings to my second point. Even though it's not a cartoon, those games are still entertainment that kids enjoy and that kind of stuff still does fly whether you like it or not.

The thing about Spongebob is that it's part of Nickelodeon, which is known for gross-out humor and parental bonuses.

Pokémon is a different matter altogether. It is part of Nintendo, who likes to be seen as a Disney-esque company and would not like to be caught dead in a controversy with moral guardians breathing on their necks.

You may notice that the Pokémon Anime was a lot more violent in the early days. It has references to guns, hints of gore (Metapod cut in half), alcohol, and religious references. Now they are gone or downplayed for one reason: International audience.

This is why "The Legend of Dratini" has never been released on international territories, translated and all. Can you imagine what news media looking for clickbait articles would do if such an episode would be released?

"BREAKING NEWS: Old Pokémon Episode released and translated featuring GUNS pointed at children!"

"ANALYSIS: Is Pokémon as FAMILY-FRIENDLY as Nintendo claims to be?"

This will be a PR nightmare for Nintendo. The mere showcase of decaying corpses of Pokémon will be a frenzy if the slew of articles talking about how "Charmander's screams in Origins is somehow proof that Origins is Darker and Edgier than the Ash Ketchum's journey" is anything to go by.

True but that's entirely different from the decomposition scene. You see the general public and by general public I meant parents in the west are more worried about gun violence and sexual content then they are about a duck decomposing to flab. The thing is this is pretty tame compare to 90s Pokemon anime and I and @Prof. SALTY have agreed that Pokemon zombies can work if you alter the decomposition scene. The thing is however, were arguing whether if the scene unaltered counts as gore or not which I personally don't believe it is not only by definition but generally classification systems don't see that kind of stuff as gore.

 

[Prof. SALTY]

Merriam Webster dictionary also defines it as "BLOOD. especially clotted blood.
Dictionary. com also definse it as "blood that is shed, especially when clotted." or "murder, bloodshed, violence"
Oxford dictionary defines it as "Blood that has been shed, especially as a result of violence."
Cambridge Dictionary defines it as "blood that has come from an injury and becomes thick"

Like I said, umbrella term. The phrase used in the Cambridge is literally "blood and gore" which would be redundant if it were to just mean "blood".

Xenoblade Chronicles,

Not. For. Children.

Kirby Star Allies or Okami

Okami does indeed have minor gore in it, though I'm not sure where you're getting Kirby from.

And before you go on, you and I both know there's a ton of kid-friendly games that use the classic "inside the body" level that features this kind of content. This isn't simply a trend, it's a overused trope popularized by Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time and won't die in a long time.

The tone and nature of these levels is completely different to a rotting corpse. Gross-out and comedy are different from horror.

This will be a PR nightmare for Nintendo. The mere showcase of decaying corpses of Pokémon will be a frenzy if the slew of articles talking about how "Charmander's screams in Origins is somehow proof that Origins is Darker and Edgier than the Ash Ketchum's journey" is anything to go by.

I agree with Shadao here. Well put.

The thing is however, were arguing whether if the scene unaltered counts as gore or not which I personally don't believe it is not only by definition but generally classification systems don't see that kind of stuff as gore.

You're literally the only person I've ever talked to that classifies gore this way so not sure what you're on about with "general classification systems"

 

[shoz999]

Like I said, umbrella term. The phrase used in the Cambridge is literally "blood and gore" which would be redundant if it were to just mean "blood".



Not. For. Children.



Okami does indeed have minor gore in it, though I'm not sure where you're getting Kirby from.



The tone and nature of these levels is completely different to a rotting corpse. Gross-out and comedy are different from horror.



I agree with Shadao here. Well put.



You're literally the only person I've ever talked to that classifies gore this way so not sure what you're on about with "general classification systems"

1. A term that does not accurately describe the decomposition scene.
2. Actually I disagree with that, though I'm starting to get the feeling we both have different age groups in mind.
3. ... Your not familiar with Kirby's lore are you? Well for Star Allies case, let's just say you have to fight Dark Mat... I mean Void Terminus's heart by going into his mouth. While your fighting him, you see his sacrificed allies tied by tendril-like cocoons and have to swim in his stomach acid.
4. Ah but see why does the gross-out, comedy and horror genres even matter? In the end, your definition is still the same and it applies to all three regardless of tone. Gruesome imagery. Spongebob, the inside body level design tropes, Lord of the Rings, Pokemon all have this in common. For your particular definition, the genre does not matter.
5. Nope. Not really. Even I don't quite understand that one.
6. The general classification systems I speak of are usually thought of as the movie, video game and TV rating systems. The lone decomposition scene you speak of will likely be classed as "disturbing imagery" instead of "gore" by many of these classification systems.

 

[Prof. SALTY]

A term that does not accurately describe the decomposition scene.

I'm pretty done arguing this. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Actually I disagree with that, though I'm starting to get the feeling we both have different age groups in mind.

All 3 Xenoblade Chronicles games are rated M 15+ here and C 15+ in Japan. Please never give these games to a child, they're long ass RPGs with weeby sexual themes.

Your not familiar with Kirby's lore are you? Well for Star Allies case, let's just say you have to fight Dark Mat... I mean Void Terminus's heart by going into his mouth. While your fighting him, you see his sacrificed allies tied by tendril-like cocoons and have to swim in his stomach acid.

I've played like 4 Kirby games, mostly from the gameboy-gamecube era. I can't comment on this because I haven't played this particular title.

Ah but see why does the gross-out, comedy and horror genres even matter? In the end, your definition is still the same and it applies to all three regardless of tone. Gruesome imagery. Spongebob, the inside body level design tropes, Lord of the Rings, Pokemon all have this in common. For your particular definition, the genre does not matter.

No. Just... No. Tone and visuals mean EVERYTHING when it comes to any genre. It's make or break. It's the difference between Genie pulling off his head in Aladin and Jason cutting off someone's head in Friday the 13th.

Nope. Not really. Even I don't quite understand that one.

I have no idea what this is in regards to.

The general classification systems I speak of are usually thought of as the movie, video game and TV rating systems. The lone decomposition scene you speak of will likely be classed as "disturbing imagery" instead of "gore" by many of these classification systems.

Disturbing imagery is not a thing...? At least not in Australian or Japanese ratings. "Graphic imagery" or "graphic violence" are the terms they use.

Honestly this talk is exhausting and I'm pretty done. Please never give M rated material to children. That's all I'm going to say.

 

[shoz999]

1. Fair enough.
2. Agree to disagree.
3. I see. Well if you enjoy your Kirby lore. YOU'LL LOVE THIS!... Can't say the same for the game play though...
4. Yes, to a genre but in terms of definition, no. Absolutely no. Especially based on my observations of your mindset early on when you mentioned the term gore. For a long while you claimed to believe that the Pokemon Adventures scene was quite disturbing and thought my responses were odd, I thought yours were as well. I came to eventually understand that this came based on a different use of the definition of gore that I've never seen before. So I decided to put it to a test and a common thing showed up in the early patterns. You wouldn't believe that this type of content, not in terms of tone or disturbing imagery, but in terms of the definition of disturbing imagery applying to guts with or without blood existed in games or cartoons made for children. I showed you proof of that and you simply responded that it wouldn't fly nowadays which I disagree. If were talking about tone, that talk has already long been over with as we already settled on that comments ago that the scene needed to be altered because it was indeed disturbing. Were not talking about tone anymore. Were talking about if it fits in the concept and definitions of gore or not.
5. Same.
6. Disturbing imagery is a term used in classification. Think of it as like graphic imagery or graphic violence but less brutalizing and more mentally nightmarish.

As for your last comment. I agree. This discussion although has been interesting is tiring. Never give M rated material to children? Sure but Xenoblade Chronicels isn't M-rated where I'm from lol. It's T for teenagers.

 

[Shadao]

True but that's entirely different from the decomposition scene. You see the general public and by general public I meant parents in the west are more worried about gun violence and sexual content then they are about a duck decomposing to flab. The thing is this is pretty tame compare to 90s Pokemon anime and I and @Prof. SALTY have agreed that Pokemon zombies can work if you alter the decomposition scene. The thing is however, were arguing whether if the scene unaltered counts as gore or not which I personally don't believe it is not only by definition but generally classification systems don't see that kind of stuff as gore.

I distinctly recall that the news media had a feeding frenzy whenever a new adaptation of Pokémon displays more violence than the regular anime, even for the smallest of scenes. And Pokémon rotting corpses, that's something that will given the news media something to frighten moral guardians that Pokémon has gone from kid-friendly to violent "M-Rated" gateway to "corrupt young children's minds."

And considering Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee, I think Nintendo still wants Pokémon to be accessible for all ages right now...

 

[Power Up]

I don’t know why you guys think Pokémon Special would be held to the same standard the Pokémon anime series would be.

While I do think that it’s certainly possible, I don’t think the Pokémon Special manga would exist if the Pokémon Company wasn’t fine with it. I’m sure that Special would be given some leeway

 

[Prof. SALTY]

As I said, I'm done, but a casual discussion on cultural differences with ratings couldn't hurt.

. Disturbing imagery is a term used in classification. Think of it as like graphic imagery or graphic violence but less brutalizing and more mentally nightmarish.

Not where I am it's not, nor is it in Japan. Japanese media usually doesn't even include classifications as to why things are rated the way they are (I've only really seen it done on bootleg DVDs I saw while over there). In Australia usually everything except for "sexual themes" and "drug use" are grouped under "adult themes" but back in the day more things were listed.

As for your last comment. I agree. This discussion although has been interesting is tiring. Never give M rated material to children? Sure but Xenoblade Chronicels isn't M-rated where I'm from lol. It's T for teenagers.

Age ratings are strict here and in Japan. If something has sexual themes or violence it's usually M/C.

While I do think that it’s certainly possible, I don’t think the Pokémon Special manga would exist if the Pokémon Company wasn’t fine with it. I’m sure that Special would be given some leeway

Manga is mostly seen as a local product with little international sales. Its niche, therefore allowed to get away with more. The chapters we're talking about also fall under the 20 year rule where the world and the franchise were in a different place at the time and are much stricter these days with the brand image.

 

[shoz999]

I distinctly recall that the news media had a feeding frenzy whenever a new adaptation of Pokémon displays more violence than the regular anime, even for the smallest of scenes. And Pokémon rotting corpses, that's something that will given the news media something to frighten moral guardians that Pokémon has gone from kid-friendly to violent "M-Rated" gateway to "corrupt young children's minds."

And considering Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee, I think Nintendo still wants Pokémon to be accessible for all ages right now...

I don't know about a feeding frenzy with a new adaptation outside of the games and anime but as for just the general Pokemon series, yeah. That's actually true. The news does sometimes create a feeding frenzy when it just comes to the Pokemon series in-general but I wouldn't call it as serious as a public relations nightmare. There were far worst things then the news media attacking Pokemon adaptations outside of the anime. Pokemon GO causing accidental deaths and muggings is a recent one but back than there was also just Pokemon told as the enemy of Christianity and that didn't lasted so long. It's going to take something far more bigger than a bunch of zombies to cause a public relations problem, especially in this time and day where more and more young parents have grew up with the Pokemon series unlike back than where most parents thought Pokemon was a fad. This is going a little off-topic but Pokemon has always strive to be accessible for all ages in different ways, that's never going to stop regardless of what medium it is.

I don’t know why you guys think Pokémon Special would be held to the same standard the Pokémon anime series would be.

While I do think that it’s certainly possible, I don’t think the Pokémon Special manga would exist if the Pokémon Company wasn’t fine with it. I’m sure that Special would be given some leeway

It's probably up for consideration a lot but getting green-lighted is a different story. I suppose another way of looking at it is that an animated TV series doesn't have the same benefits as games and manga. Games and manga have that freedom to dive in to more mature subject matter, that's why the Pokemon games and manga have always been particularly far more mature then it's anime counterpart. They have that freedom. Now if it was an OVA, I'd imagine there would be a bit more freedom but in-general you should expect alterations to happen for a anime adaptation as television and online video services are far more accessible to children. A good Pokemon Adventures anime adaptation can still happen under alterations but we should expect alterations nevertheless.

As I said, I'm done, but a casual discussion on cultural differences with ratings couldn't hurt.



Not where I am it's not, nor is it in Japan. Japanese media usually doesn't even include classifications as to why things are rated the way they are (I've only really seen it done on bootleg DVDs I saw while over there). In Australia usually everything except for "sexual themes" and "drug use" are grouped under "adult themes" but back in the day more things were listed.



Age ratings are strict here and in Japan. If something has sexual themes or violence it's usually M/C.



Manga is mostly seen as a local product with little international sales. Its niche, therefore allowed to get away with more. The chapters we're talking about also fall under the 20 year rule where the world and the franchise were in a different place at the time and are much stricter these days with the brand image.

1 and 2. Interesting.

 

[Shadao]

I don’t know why you guys think Pokémon Special would be held to the same standard the Pokémon anime series would be.

While I do think that it’s certainly possible, I don’t think the Pokémon Special manga would exist if the Pokémon Company wasn’t fine with it. I’m sure that Special would be given some leeway

But would something like the Electric Tale of Pikachu be faithfully adapted to TV if given the chance? Manga tends to get away with more violence and adult content than anime. This is best shown in Yu-Gi-Oh!

The original manga: When Pegasus defeated Bandit Keith, he turned Keith's hand into a gun and forced the American to commit suicide.

The Duel Monsters anime (aka the Yu-Gi-Oh! show): When Pegasus defeated Bandit Keith, he dropped the American into the sea thanks to a trap door.

 

[shoz999]

But would something like the Electric Tale of Pikachu be faithfully adapted to TV if given the chance? Manga tends to get away with more violence and adult content than anime. This is best shown in Yu-Gi-Oh!

The original manga: When Pegasus defeated Bandit Keith, he turned Keith's hand into a gun and forced the American to commit suicide.

The Duel Monsters anime (aka the Yu-Gi-Oh! show): When Pegasus defeated Bandit Keith, he dropped the American into the sea thanks to a trap door.

True but Pokemon Adventures violence is pretty tame. The only real chapter I can see being a problem in terms of violence is Ruby and Sapphire.

 

[Dephender]

Misinformation about how the result of this poll matters in any way, implications that this is the first time this poll has been held, general dirtthrowing at whole fanbases and treating them as a single collective....

I think we're done here.