March 23rd: SM19 - Intense Electric Shock Training! A Rematch with Kapu-Kokeko!!

[Ominous Wind]

What's this? Ash getting a Pokemon that was heavily promoted during the waiting period for a Generation? Color me surprised.

 

[345ash-greninja]

It's obvious Mudbray is gonna make Rockruff run for its money a.k.a. become a tough opponent. Quite stupid to have the puppy curbstomp it without any tension or struggle in the battle.

I presume then you didn't watch the first two battles between Ash and Sawyer. What happened in those battles? Absolute curbstomps.

 

[Satomine Night]

I presume then you didn't watch the first two battles between Ash and Sawyer. What happened in those battles? Absolute curbstomps.

But this isn't Ash vs. Sawyer. This Ash vs. Hiroki--or, to be more specific, Ash's Rockruff vs. Hiroki's Mudbray. There is absolutely nothing to indicate this is going to be a curbstomp battle. I don't even know why you are comparing this to Ash vs. Sawyer in the first place. The focus of this battle appears to be Rockruff and its development, so I have a feeling this is not going to be an easy, sweeping win for Rockruff.

 

[345ash-greninja]

But this isn't Ash vs. Sawyer. This Ash vs. Hiroki--or, to be more specific, Ash's Rockruff vs. Hiroki's Mudbray. There is absolutely nothing to indicate this is going to be a curbstomp battle. I don't even know why you are comparing this to Ash vs. Sawyer in the first place. The focus of this battle appears to be Rockruff and its development, so I have a feeling this is not going to be an easy, sweeping win for Rockruff.

satohaupika was saying that curbstomps are unlikely to happen, so I reminded him of Ash vs Sawyer. And the the summary heavily implies that Rockruff will curbstomp Mudbray- 'claim victory in an instant with Z-move'. Plus the scan also shows Rockruff using Z-move on Mudbray. So, I think it's pretty much evident that Rockruff wins quickly with its Z-move. And the focus of this episode is Pikachu vs Tapu Koko.

 

[Satomine Night]

satohaupika was saying that curbstomps are unlikely to happen, so I reminded him of Ash vs Sawyer. And the the summary heavily implies that Rockruff will curbstomp Mudbray- 'claim victory in an instant with Z-move'. Plus the scan also shows Rockruff using Z-move on Mudbray. So, I think it's pretty much evident that Rockruff wins quickly with its Z-move.

Ash vs. Sawyer still has nothing to do with this match, or with satoharupika's point.

"Claim victory in an instant with a Z-move!" Honestly, that sounds more like a command, rather than a definitive statement of what happens. I'm not saying you're definitely wrong, but you might not be right, either. Also, even if Rockruff does defeat Mudbray with a Z-move, that doesn't make this battle a curbstomp. It depends on when Rockruff uses the Z-move.

And the focus of this episode is Pikachu vs Tapu Koko.

I said, "The focus of this battle appears to be Rockruff." I said nothing about the entire episode. I'm well aware the focus of this episode is Ash's rematch with Tapu Koko.

 

[TheWanderingMist]

I'm just gonna assume the Rpckruff/Mudbray battle happens first and gets Tapu Koko to challenge Ash to another battle after it sees him successfully use Breakneck Blitz with Rockruff.

 

[satopi]

I presume then you didn't watch the first two battles between Ash and Sawyer. What happened in those battles? Absolute curbstomps.

Quit bringing XY into this. That is NO comparison!

And yes, I have seen those battles.

Rockruff is trying to get stronger, we haven't even seen it battle on screen yet. A curbstomp isn't the best way to win, it's stupid and doesn't make a basic Pokémon look nor seem strong. The battle is almost pointless if there is no built up tension nor struggle from either side. Rockruff isn't an experienced brawler, it's still a novice. Let it have an actual battle.

satohaupika was saying that curbstomps are unlikely to happen, so I reminded him of Ash vs Sawyer.

I wasn't talking about curbstomps not existing at all or unlikely to happen. I said, it's stupid for Rockruff to get a curbstomp battle. And why should it? It's not confirmed it'll beat Mudbray but it'll most likely win. You're reading too much into the "Claim victory with a Z move" bit. It sounds more like a thing to say when talking about how strong Z moves are but a Pokémon doesn't immediately faint when hit by one (like how Pikachu didn't faint despite getting hit by Hariyama's Z move). Sounds more like you want to pick a fight with me after so long. U_U

I'm also thinking the Abareru kun vs Ash battle is a separate episode from the Ash vs Tapu Koko battle. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[345ash-greninja]

Ash vs. Sawyer still has nothing to do with this match, or with satoharupika's point.

Yes it has. I was referring to previous curbstomps that happened.

"Claim victory in an instant with a Z-move!" Honestly, that sounds more like a command, rather than a definitive statement of what happens. I'm not saying you're definitely wrong, but you might not be right, either. Also, even if Rockruff does defeat Mudbray with a Z-move, that doesn't make this battle a curbstomp. It depends on when Rockruff uses the Z-move.

I think that the summary is pretty much a confirmation that Rockruff wins easily with a Z-move. I have no idea why the summary will be misleading regarding a random battle like this. It could be the other way around, but honestly I don't think so.

I said, "The focus of this battle appears to be Rockruff." I said nothing about the entire episode. I'm well aware the focus of this episode is Ash's rematch with Tapu Koko.

Well, that was my point.

Quit bringing XY into this. That is NO comparison!

Why? I was just giving some examples of previous curbstomps because it see like you were saying that curbstomps are unlikely to happen.

And yes, I have seen those battles.

Nice to know that.

Rockruff is trying to get stronger, we haven't even seen it battle on screen yet. A curbstomp isn't the best way to win, it's stupid and doesn't make a basic Pokémon look nor seem strong. The battle is almost pointless if there is no built up tension nor struggle from either side. Rockruff isn't an experienced brawler, it's still a novice. Let it have an actual battle.

Whatever, but seeing the summary, I have a strong feeling it will be a curbstomp. Whether curbstomps are right or not is a different thing.

I wasn't talking about curbstomps not existing at all or unlikely to happen. I said, it's stupid for Rockruff to get a curbstomp battle. And why should it? It's not confirmed it'll beat Mudbray but it'll most likely win. You're reading too much into the "Claim victory with a Z move" bit. It sounds more like a thing to say when talking about how strong Z moves are but a Pokémon doesn't immediately faint when hit by one (like how Pikachu didn't faint despite getting hit by Hariyama's Z move). Sounds more like you want to pick a fight with me after so long. U_U

Well, but Haryama was promptly sent flying out of the battling arena and KO'd by Pikachu's Z-move. Z-moves are tankable some times, not all the times.

I'm also thinking the Abareru kun vs Ash battle is a separate episode from the Ash vs Tapu Koko battle. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't think so honestly. I have a feeling it's in the same episode.

 

[ShadowForce720]

Question since this seems like it hasn't been brought up yet what move set do you think Hiroki's Mudbray will have?

Mudbray can learn the following moves:

Moves learned through level up:
Ground: Mud Slap, Mud Sport, Rototiller, Bulldoze, High Horsepower, Earthquake
Fighting: Double Kick, Counter, Superpower
Normal: Stomp, Bide, Mega Kick
Steel: Iron Defense, Heavy Slam

Moves learned through TM:
Ground: Earthquake, Bulldoze
Poison: Toxic
Normal: Hidden Power, Protect, Frustration, Return, Double Team, Façade, Attract, Round, Swagger, Sleep Talk, Substitute, Confide
Rock: Sandstorm, Rock Tomb, Rock Slide
Fighting: Low Sweep
Psychic: Rest
Dark: Payback

Egg Moves:
Normal: Body Slam, Double Edge
Ground: Magnitude, Mud Bomb
Fighting: Close Combat

 

[Joltik-Kid]

Not actually sure what the rematch entitles, but knowing Koko it's to either teach Ash a lesson, prep him for something, or to test how far he's come since arriving in Alola.

Or off chance Ash and Pikachu are just dumb enough to challenge an Island Guardian for funnies since it kills time XD

 

[Nerdy McNerdface]

Yes it has. I was referring to previous curbstomps that happened.

I think that the summary is pretty much a confirmation that Rockruff wins easily with a Z-move. I have no idea why the summary will be misleading regarding a random battle like this. It could be the other way around, but honestly I don't think so.

Why? I was just giving some examples of previous curbstomps because it see like you were saying that curbstomps are unlikely to happen.

Whatever, but seeing the summary, I have a strong feeling it will be a curbstomp. Whether curbstomps are right or not is a different thing.

Well, but Haryama was promptly sent flying out of the battling arena and KO'd by Pikachu's Z-move. Z-moves are tankable some times, not all the times.

You know what I sense? I sense someone overanalysing a few unimportant words in a sentence to glorify their favourite character because there is still a pinch of salt left over from the Kalos league that needs to go somewhere.

 

[Dephender]

I'm also thinking the Abareru kun vs Ash battle is a separate episode from the Ash vs Tapu Koko battle. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Pokemon Fan is pretty vague on the subject, but I would imagine they'd have mentioned the episode's name if it actually was a separate one.

A celebrity cameo is also exactly the kind of thing they can cover and give huge attention to like this even if the scene just ends up lasting two minutes and Hiroki has 5 lines of dialogue.

 

[Cat's Eye Draco]

Question since this seems like it hasn't been brought up yet what move set do you think Hiroki's Mudbray will have?

Mudbray can learn the following moves:

Moves learned through level up:
Ground: Mud Slap, Mud Sport, Rototiller, Bulldoze, High Horsepower, Earthquake
Fighting: Double Kick, Counter, Superpower
Normal: Stomp, Bide, Mega Kick
Steel: Iron Defense, Heavy Slam

Moves learned through TM:
Ground: Earthquake, Bulldoze
Poison: Toxic
Normal: Hidden Power, Protect, Frustration, Return, Double Team, Façade, Attract, Round, Swagger, Sleep Talk, Substitute, Confide
Rock: Sandstorm, Rock Tomb, Rock Slide
Fighting: Low Sweep
Psychic: Rest
Dark: Payback

Egg Moves:
Normal: Body Slam, Double Edge
Ground: Magnitude, Mud Bomb
Fighting: Close Combat

Well, you could probably rule out Earthquake since it hasn't been seen in the anime for over ten years now, and probably Magnitude as well. Bulldoze has a fair chance though, seeing as Clemont's Heliolisk was allowed to use it.

 

[Satomine Night]

I think that the summary is pretty much a confirmation that Rockruff wins easily with a Z-move. I have no idea why the summary will be misleading regarding a random battle like this. It could be the other way around, but honestly I don't think so.

It could be a confirmation that Rockruff wins with a Z-move, or it could be a command to Rockruff (and Ash) to win with a Z-move. It's the way that sentence is written in Japanese that makes me believe it's more likely to be a command than a confirmation. (That sentence is written in the imperative tense, I believe.) That's not misleading at all.

Whatever, but seeing the summary, I have a strong feeling it will be a curbstomp. Whether curbstomps are right or not is a different thing.

Even if Rockruff deals the finishing blow with Breakneck Blitz, that does not mean this battle will be a curbstomp. "Claim victory in an instant" could just mean to quickly decide the battle with a Z-move, not start off the battle with a Z-move. I predict Rockruff will struggle a bit against Mudbray before Ash decides to use a Z-move. (Since he can only use one Z-move per battle, I don't think he would start the battle with one, but rather save it--either for the right moment or as a last-ditch effort.)

A celebrity cameo is also exactly the kind of thing they can cover and give huge attention to like this even if the scene just ends up lasting two minutes and Hiroki has 5 lines of dialogue.

From what I've seen of Abareru-kun, I expect those to be some amazingly hammy 5 lines of dialogue.

 

[Janovy]

I think the last time we had a celebrity cameo like this was during one of the movie filming episodes (I think in XY?) except it wasn't promoted like this one.

 

[Locormus]

Is there no reason why it can't be a good battle that lasts a few minutes that ends with Rockruff winning?

Personally, I'm expecting Mudbray's Stamina ability to go into effect after a few Tackles and Bites from Rockruff, then Mudbray to gain the upper hand, and for Rockruff to ultimately win with Breakneck Blitz.

The problem I'm having is a bit of realism. I know I shouldn't compare, but Rockruff can't last a single hit from a Mudbray, be it Bulldoze or Double Kick. I can see Mudbray taking hit upon hit and Stamina activating, but there's a bit of a suspension of disbelief to assume that Rockruff will be able to actually take the hits that the Mudbray will deal. I mean Mudbray is pretty much the Anti-Rock-critter from GenVII, with pretty much only Ground, Fighting and Steel-type moves. This is literally the worst match-up Ash could pick, only Pikachu has worse odds considering its not effective and weak to Ground.

What's this? Ash getting a Pokemon that was heavily promoted during the waiting period for a Generation? Color me surprised.

GenIV: Lucario? Nope.
GenV: Zoroark? Nope.
GenVI: Phantump? NOPE!
GenVII: Lycanroc? FINALLY!

Well, you could probably rule out Earthquake since it hasn't been seen in the anime for over ten years now, and probably Magnitude as well. Bulldoze has a fair chance though, seeing as Clemont's Heliolisk was allowed to use it.

Bulldoze has a shot, but I'm guessing they'd throw in Mud Slap, High Horsepower, Double Kick and Counter.. Mud-slap because they love reducing accuracy in the animé, HH because its a signature move, Double Kick because why not another super-effective hit against Rock? And Counter because it doesn't work with Stamina in the games, but could work with it in the animé: Rockruff used Breakneck Blitz. Mudbray used Counter, Rockruff fainted.

 

[Golden_Latias]

The problem I'm having is a bit of realism. I know I shouldn't compare, but Rockruff can't last a single hit from a Mudbray, be it Bulldoze or Double Kick. I can see Mudbray taking hit upon hit and Stamina activating, but there's a bit of a suspension of disbelief to assume that Rockruff will be able to actually take the hits that the Mudbray will deal. I mean Mudbray is pretty much the Anti-Rock-critter from GenVII, with pretty much only Ground, Fighting and Steel-type moves. This is literally the worst match-up Ash could pick, only Pikachu has worse odds considering its not effective and weak to Ground.

Anime =/= games.

Don't forget, this is the same anime where a Serperior was taken out with one Electro Ball from a Pikachu and a Scyther was taken out with one Vine Whip from a Bulbasaur (no, I don't buy that BS excuse that Double Team lowers your defense, and no, I don't care that that is pretty much ancient history). We've seen Roxie's Koffing and Elesa's Tynamo as speed demons. Stats mean absolutely nothing in the anime. So I don't think it's too unbelievable that Rockruff could tank a couple hits from Mudbray.

 

[Dephender]

I think the last time we had a celebrity cameo like this was during one of the movie filming episodes (I think in XY?) except it wasn't promoted like this one.

The only actual celebrity cameo we've had in the actual show before was when Sachiko Kobayashi played the mom WAY back in OS34. I assume that got promoted decently back then too.

Beyond that, such stunt casting is more of a movie thing.

 

[Satomine Night]

Don't forget, this is the same anime where a Serperior was taken out with one Electro Ball from a Pikachu and a Scyther was taken out with one Vine Whip from a Bulbasaur (no, I don't buy that BS excuse that Double Team lowers your defense, and no, I don't care that that is pretty much ancient history). We've seen Roxie's Koffing and Elesa's Tynamo as speed demons. Stats mean absolutely nothing in the anime. So I don't think it's too unbelievable that Rockruff could tank a couple hits from Mudbray.

Locormus does have a point, though, in that Mudbray has a strong advantage against Rockruff, both in typing and in possible moveset. Combine the right moveset with Mudbray's Stamina ability turning it into a damage-absorbing tank, and Rockruff could have a hard time (which is why I highly doubt this is going to be a curbstomp battle). However, I don't think that means Rockruff won't be able to take a few hits from Mudbray.

Besides, Rockruff is now under the guidance of Ash "Screw Types Advantages" Ketchum. I could see Rockruff gaining the upper hand if Ash uses the puppy's speed to his advantage. Even though the anime seems to ignore doesn't always take into account Pokémon stats, Mudbray is still supposed to be 12 times Rockruff's weight. Unless the writers take into account the running speed of real-life donkeys vs. real-life dogs (donkeys are faster), then Rockruff is probably going to be faster than Mudbray just because of the weight difference.

For the record, I still think Rockruff will win. Emerging victorious even in the face of logic/physics/whatever is another one of Ash's specialties, after all.

 

[Golden_Latias]

I don't think it's going to be a curbstomp, though...