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March 24th: MPM11 - The Rainbow and the Pokémon Master!

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lara lynx

Well-Known Member
So according to director Yuyama, they picked Gary to pose the Pokemon Master question because "he's the reason the line is what it is".

And that got me thinking: were there many other characters who talked about being a "Pokemon Master"? Or that used that phrase before they heard Ash say it?
Like, most of the trainers Ash meets have a goal of being the best at something - best *insert type* pokemon trainer, champion, winner of leagues, etc. But aside from Gary, did anyone else specifically say Pokemon Master?
Maybe "Pokemon Master" is not a thing at all. Maybe it was a childish title Gary made up, and Ash went with it because he wanted to beat Gary. That's why the question of what it was has never been answered - because its nothing but a kids dream. That's why it makes sense for Gary to ask it, because he realises that its a meaningless title and that Ash needs to make his own definition/goal now.
 

Dephender

Gizakawayusu
Staff member
Moderator
But aside from Gary, did anyone else specifically say Pokemon Master?
Maybe "Pokemon Master" is not a thing at all. Maybe it was a childish title Gary made up, and Ash went with it because he wanted to beat Gary. That's why the question of what it was has never been answered - because its nothing but a kids dream. That's why it makes sense for Gary to ask it, because he realises that its a meaningless title and that Ash needs to make his own definition/goal now.

Notably, the announcer of the Kanto Pokemon league said "Winning this tournament is not only an honor as a Pokémon Trainer, but also an ordeal that must be passed in order to become a Pokémon Master".

The dub reworded it as "These hopeful competitors will battle one another as they strive always for excellence and victory, the victory they will need to enter the ranks of the Pokémon Masters", which... isn't straight out INCORRECT, but it sure resulted in a lot of "all you need to do to become a Pokémon Master is to win a league" nonsense over the years.
 

vondecayle

Well-Known Member
characters who talked about being a "Pokemon Master"? Or that used that phrase before they heard Ash say it?
Well, I know that in pokemon chronicles the narrator said Ritchie was on a journey to become a pokemon master. I don’t recall if the character ever said it himself though.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
Notably, the announcer of the Kanto Pokemon league said "Winning this tournament is not only an honor as a Pokémon Trainer, but also an ordeal that must be passed in order to become a Pokémon Master".

The dub reworded it as "These hopeful competitors will battle one another as they strive always for excellence and victory, the victory they will need to enter the ranks of the Pokémon Masters", which... isn't straight out INCORRECT, but it sure resulted in a lot of "all you need to do to become a Pokémon Master is to win a league" nonsense over the years.
Im guessing they'll retcon it to be some marketing hype in universe for the tournament by using a flamboyant term such as Pokemon Master, and that in reality it is a childish dream of Ash....as that is what MPM seems to be building upto, and not an actual rank in universe held by any trainers
 

Dephender

Gizakawayusu
Staff member
Moderator
Im guessing they'll retcon it to be some marketing hype in universe for the tournament by using a flamboyant term such as Pokemon Master, and that in reality it is a childish dream of Ash....as that is what MPM seems to be building upto, and not an actual rank in universe held by any trainers

I'm guessing they long since forgot what they had some rando nobody say in a 25 year old episode.
 

Jiffunk

Well-Known Member
It just occurred to me based on reviewing the brief synopsis for this episode, that the "Will he be able to find the answer to this question?!", presumably after Gary presents his question, may allude that Ash will not be able to give an initial answer to Gary, and will need some type of inspiration upon meeting Ho-OH to give him a resolution to confirming his goal.

I just hope the resolution, once finally revealed, is something more concrete oppose to something intricate, such as watching rainbow bird illuminate itself over the rainbow. Seen enough of this in the anime, that it seemingly registers as some tangible cop out to avoid addressing a more cohesive or clear-cut resolution.

So ash will see ho-oh headed to paldea and follow it
 

AJ97

Well-Known Member
Tbh, the concept of "Pokemon Master" is really not as ambiguous as most people let on.
Being a Master in something essentially means complete expertise in whatever that is.

So in other words, Pokemon Master = Someone who is the best at everything Pokemon related. This in fact further ties with Ash's character. Yes, while he really enjoys battling and focuses on that and has reached the pinnacle of battling; he's always been the guy who takes part in whatever Pokemon related.

Whether to look at new Pokemon, contests, Exploration, Rhyhorn racing, or anything related to Pokemon.
"Pokemon" more or less equals to "Everything" within the Universe and it's practically impossible to become a "Master of Everything" in a lifetime.

So Ash will eternally remain a 10-year-old in his impossible quest to be a Master of Everything.
 

santiagus

I watched Pokemon anime for 20 freaking years
Well I hope Team Rocket has his redemption this last episode.

That last scene of them parting ways with their Pokemon looking with only the sound of the wind will haunt me untill then.
 

BlueLight

Well-Known Member
Well I hope Team Rocket has his redemption this last episode.

That last scene of them parting ways with their Pokemon looking with only the sound of the wind will haunt me untill then.
What?! Did Team Rocket really split up or what?!
I didn't watch this week's episode. So, I'm just asking.
 

Red and Blue

Well-Known Member
There might still be hope for the series to end with TRio becoming Ash's new companions as they go on a off screen adventure.
 

santiagus

I watched Pokemon anime for 20 freaking years
What?! Did Team Rocket really split up or what?!
I didn't watch this week's episode. So, I'm just asking.

They blamed each other and they said that it's over and they left for their own way.
 

Guy100

Well-Known Member
Notably, the announcer of the Kanto Pokemon league said "Winning this tournament is not only an honor as a Pokémon Trainer, but also an ordeal that must be passed in order to become a Pokémon Master".

The dub reworded it as "These hopeful competitors will battle one another as they strive always for excellence and victory, the victory they will need to enter the ranks of the Pokémon Masters", which... isn't straight out INCORRECT, but it sure resulted in a lot of "all you need to do to become a Pokémon Master is to win a league" nonsense over the years.
Great point. Forgot that this quote was even mentioned in the dub, which arguably supports the notion that the early concept of a Pokemon Master was initially introduced to be an elite level trainer that conquered an elite-level tournament such as the Pokemon league. This even ties to the early red and blue video game's exposition of defining what a Pokemon Master is after the protagonist defeats Lance, who outright deems the player a Pokemon Master.

Even, Yuyama stated in his interview, that the concept of the original series was based on the early video games.

However, it seems that when the anime had later decided on writing a future story that scripted Ash to become a regional champion, the original concept that defined a Pokemon Master was revised in order to prolong the continuation of the series. Based on Yuyama's metaphor of what a Pokemon Master means to him during his interview, in which he describes the achievement (Pokemon Master) to be as elusive as chasing a rainbow, it seems that Ho-Oh is essentially the physical representation of what a Pokemon Master symbolizes (ultimate harmonious connection with Pokemon), and as such, a trainer can only rightfully acknowledge the right to be called a Pokemon Master, if the rainbow bird approves of them with its blessing.

If this does turn out to be the actual exposition we are given of how a trainer achieves the honor of becoming a Pokemon Master, factored on Ho-oh's perspective, then it would arguably justify why such an achievement (becoming a Pokemon Master) would be an extremely difficult ordeal to accomplish if the prerequisite depends on the rainbow bird's outlook/standpoint, especially since Ho-oh is very elusive, and is said to only appear to trainers it deems pure hearted/ worthy, which is not very many.

I'll even add to the statement regarding the connection between Ho-OH and Pokemon Masters, that I would think the journey to become a master would be quite disorienting, since trainers are not specifically given a how to guide of what would define them worthy in the eyes of Ho-Oh to make it appear to give its consent, typically making it harder for a trainer to know whether or not they have achieved the goal (pokemon master) or gotten close. Essentially, making the goal post to achieving it indefinite, as there can be numerous ways or particular endeavors for trainers to choose in order to claim the title of becoming a Master, just as long as Ho-oh deems it acceptable.
 
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Sayho1234

Well-Known Member
In the early games (Red, Green, and Blue) I thought that being a Pokemon Master meant not only winning the league but also catching all 151 pokemon?
 

Guy100

Well-Known Member
In the early games (Red, Green, and Blue) I thought that being a Pokemon Master meant not only winning the league but also catching all 151 pokemon?

If memory serves me correct, I believe the official guidebook to the early games mention that in order to be considered a "true" pokemon master, its preferred to strive towards the goal of catching all 151 pokemon. However, the standard prerequisite was to defeat the elite four, in which Lance deems the player worthy of the title.
 

Blood Red

【推しの子】
If memory serves me correct, I believe the official guidebook to the early games mention that in order to be considered a "true" pokemon master, its preferred to strive towards the goal of catching all 151 pokemon. However, the standard prerequisite was to defeat the elite four, in which Lance deems the player worthy of the title.
Lance basically gives you the title as soon as you beat him, making Red the only trainer who's ever been acknowledged as a Pokémon Master.
 

Dephender

Gizakawayusu
Staff member
Moderator
In the early games (Red, Green, and Blue) I thought that being a Pokemon Master meant not only winning the league but also catching all 151 pokemon?

If memory serves me correct, I believe the official guidebook to the early games mention that in order to be considered a "true" pokemon master, its preferred to strive towards the goal of catching all 151 pokemon. However, the standard prerequisite was to defeat the elite four, in which Lance deems the player worthy of the title.

Lance basically gives you the title as soon as you beat him, making Red the only trainer who's ever been acknowledged as a Pokémon Master.

This is all localization nonsense. The term Pokemon Master was invented by Yuyama for the anime.
 
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