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March 27: BWSP2 - Iris VS Clair! The Road to Dragon Master!!

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CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
I wouldn't say Iris was handled as well as she could have been. Her character seemed a lot more promising at the start but she did have a nice backstory.

Axew just became the new Togepi instead of doing anything interesting, and even Excadrill and Emonga weren't used as much after their early focus episodes. Dragonite was an issue altogether though.
 

Dax

Legend
Dragonite was never an issue storywise. People made him one, that's different. There's nothing wrong with a dragon wanting to go with an aspiring Dragon trainer, no matter its power. And still, Dragonite wasn't that beastly to begin with and Iris did have to work hard in order to control him and gain its trust, which ultimately helped her journey.

The only ones that had problems with her catching Dragonite were the fans that treat Ash as a god and are always afraid that a girl could ever surpass him in power. People began to hate her the moment she won the Club Battle for a reason.

Just wait and read the reactions if she wins against Clair on her first try, unlike Ash. The meltdowns will be unbearable.
 

CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
Dragonite was never an issue storywise. People made him one, that's different. There's nothing wrong with a dragon wanting to go with an aspiring Dragon trainer, no matter its power. And still, Dragonite wasn't that beastly to begin with and Iris did have to work hard in order to control him and gain its trust, which ultimately helped her journey.

The only ones that had problems with her catching Dragonite were the fans that treat Ash as a god and are always afraid that a girl could ever surpass him in power. People began to hate her the moment she won the Club Battle for a reason.

Just wait and read the reactions if she wins against Clair on her first try, unlike Ash. The meltdowns will be unbearable.

You're also forgetting how Dragonite beat Manoswine even though it didn't obey her at the time. With Dragonite being weak to ice Mamoswine should have done better.

Dawn's entire role in that tournament was rather pointless since she came back just to lose so early.
 

XXD17

Draco rex
Dragonite was never an issue storywise. People made him one, that's different. There's nothing wrong with a dragon wanting to go with an aspiring Dragon trainer, no matter its power. And still, Dragonite wasn't that beastly to begin with and Iris did have to work hard in order to control him and gain its trust, which ultimately helped her journey.

The only ones that had problems with her catching Dragonite were the fans that treat Ash as a god and are always afraid that a girl could ever surpass him in power. People began to hate her the moment she won the Club Battle for a reason.

Just wait and read the reactions if she wins against Clair on her first try, unlike Ash. The meltdowns will be unbearable.

See, I like Iris and I really like dragonite...what's really disconcerting is that she got it right off the bat without having to work to evolve it...it seems a little "cheap"....it's like giving Ash a garchomp straight up rather than a gible...I guess what made people angry is that of all people, she was the only one to get this kind of special treatment...and when dragonite, destroyed mamoswine, the Dawn fans just couldn't take it anymore...
 

Caseydia

Ace Trainer
See, I like Iris and I really like dragonite...what's really disconcerting is that she got it right off the bat without having to work to evolve it...it seems a little "cheap"....it's like giving Ash a garchomp straight up rather than a gible...I guess what made people angry is that of all people, she was the only one to get this kind of special treatment...and when dragonite, destroyed mamoswine, the Dawn fans just couldn't take it anymore...

It wasn't just Dawn fans but fans who have been watching the show long enough to witness Ash around Charizard and some of the others who almost went through a lot of crap to get where they are. But that's in the past, so I hope people can just move on and enjoy the special or show for whatever it is.
 

Squirtle_007

Well-Known Member
You're also forgetting how Dragonite beat Manoswine even though it didn't obey her at the time. With Dragonite being weak to ice Mamoswine should have done better.

Dawn's entire role in that tournament was rather pointless since she came back just to lose so early.

Oh, come on, people tends to treat Mamoswine as if it was an unstopable force just because it's big and burly when it was a kinda crappy Pokémon (¬_¬), it lost against James's Carnivine and most (if not all) of its highlight moments were in double battles where the small Pokémon did most of the job, seriously, I think Pachirisu and Piplup were stronger than Mamoswine.
 
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Afrodisiac

break up w yo gf, im bored
People still can't get over Iris defeating Ash and getting a pseudo-legendary. wow. Such timeless moments, what kinda impact.

I wonder what will happen if Iris does indeed get that Gible and then it evolves prior to her XY cameo. I'd love it only for the reactions.
 

Graham Aker

Well-Known Member
Just wait and read the reactions if she wins against Clair on her first try, unlike Ash. The meltdowns will be unbearable.

Ash never lost to Clair, it was interrupted. And this battle seems like a 1 v 1 anyway, with Clair using her newly caught Pokemon. It's not unbelievable that Iris would win using her arguably strongest Pokemon.
 

TheFonz

Pokemon Semi-Master
The only ones that had problems with her catching Dragonite were the fans that treat Ash as a god and are always afraid that a girl could ever surpass him in power. People began to hate her the moment she won the Club Battle for a reason.

Here we go with the generalizations again! People can actually have reasons for disliking something and not blind hatred.

Oh and people think Ash is a god? Is there a cult on here or something? That's strange because Ash has been losing quite often in XY and people(including myself) actually enjoy it because the battle are a lot better and Ash is battling A LOT better despite his losses.
 
Here we go with the generalizations again! People can actually have reasons for disliking something and not blind hatred.

Oh and people think Ash is a god? Is there a cult on here or something? That's strange because Ash has been losing quite often in XY and people(including myself) actually enjoy it because the battle are a lot better and Ash is battling A LOT better despite his losses.

I like Iris, but I agree-- I don't know why it is so hard for people to accept that others may have actual reasons for disliking something and not blind hatred.

Ash is no god hahaha...lmao. He's been okay in XY so far, and I kinda like that he's losing earlier on in closer matches with more strategy myself.
 

yuoke

Treasure huntin'
The main problem people had with iris and dragonite was the fact that iris had her own first form dragon type from the start that even said itself wanted to evolve someday. Then again this all stems back down to how in bw the writers went over board with cutsey and baby pokemon.
 

Graham Aker

Well-Known Member
The main problem people had with iris and dragonite was the fact that iris had her own first form dragon type from the start that even said itself wanted to evolve someday.

Not only that, it never really amounted to anything. Axew had three actual serious battles his entire 140+ episodes on the show, and it got stomped effortlessly in two of them. Really, it seemed like the writer almost realized their mistake, hence why she was given a Dragonite.
 

Sprinter1988

Well-Known Member
See, I like Iris and I really like dragonite...what's really disconcerting is that she got it right off the bat without having to work to evolve it...it seems a little "cheap"....it's like giving Ash a garchomp straight up rather than a gible...I guess what made people angry is that of all people, she was the only one to get this kind of special treatment...and when dragonite, destroyed mamoswine, the Dawn fans just couldn't take it anymore...

I agree with you on the "cheap" thing. In the past the anime gave this view that pokemon liwillke Dragonite really were borderline legendary, that seeing this kind of pokemon was an absolute privilege, and owning one took a trainer of high skill and quality, who would still have to spend a long time working hard with it to bring out its full potential. Iris got hers with minimal effort on her part, complete with a full set of four powerful moves, and all she had to do was spend a couple of episodes getting to know it.

Before the Iris fans have a go at me for this, I will point out that I felt this way about Dawn when she got her Togekiss too.

It's just one of those things that I really don't like. Most of each characters' development as a trainer comes first from teaching their pokemon new moves, and secondly from having their pokemon evolve under their care. They don't necessarily have to do both of these, but doing one or the other is important. Look at Buizel - it didn't evolve, but you can say that it learned Water Pulse and Ice Punch while under Ash's ownership. On the other hand you can look at Unfezant - personally I don't think it has much going for it, but you can still say that it fully evolved under Ash's care. You cannot say this about either Dragonite or Togekiss.

Its not as if I don't like then having powerful Pokémon - that's just fine, so long as they work as hard as Ash had to work to get his powerhouses, like Charizard, Sceptile, Infernape and Gliscor, which he had to evolve from their basic forms, or Snorlax and Heracross, which he had to train up so that they had decent moves.

I would feel exactly the same way if Ash ended up with a powerhouse pokemon in this way. If Ash happened to get a Lucario from Korrina, that's fine, but if it had Close Combat, Aura Sphere, Bullet Punch and Poison Jab and then never learned anything else, then I'd think it just as cheap as giving Iris that Dragonite
 

Dragalge

"Orange" Magical Girl
I don't see what's so cheap about Iris's Dragonite. Sure it was caught fully evolved and ready to roflstomp opponents but at the same time it was disobedient. At least Iris worked to gain its trust after the capturing.

I also personally didn't find Dragonite's win over Mamoswine cheap either, at least Mamoswine wasn't one shotted in the first few seconds. Sure Dawn winning would have been neat but I'd be annoyed if Dragonite won the whole tourney.
 
Iris and Dragonite have actually yet to win a battle when they're in-sync together. Their first win will probably happen here and in the process Iris will become the first main character other than Ash to beat a gym leader. History making tbh!
 

Lorde

Let's go to the beach, each.
Even though I'm not a fan of Iris character I look forward to this battle should be a really good one. Some mighty Dragons battling it out.

And you never know Iris could get a mission from Clair to go to Kalos bring the Tyrunt fossil to some. Remember Ash & co are at the coast part so Iris could come by.

I doubt that this special is leading up to her cameo in XY to be honest. It seems way too early for her to return and I think this special will merely foreshadow her next move, which I hope is for her to visit Hoenn and study Dragon-types there or something and maybe even train under Drake.
 

CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
I doubt that this special is leading up to her cameo in XY to be honest. It seems way too early for her to return and I think this special will merely foreshadow her next move, which I hope is for her to visit Hoenn and study Dragon-types there or something and maybe even train under Drake.

Iris getting Dragonite was probably to compensate for Axew never evolving.

Still I understand why people see it as cheap, before Dragonite Iris' team looked rather underwhelming. She had one strong pokemon, a baby Axew, and a cute Emonga.

Then all of a sudden she gets Dragonite to make her team look much more impressive immediately. Arguably without Dragonite Iris would have had the weakest team of the original 4 girls.
 

WaterShuriken

"I..I..Iron Tail, Pikachu."
Iris and Dragonite have actually yet to win a battle when they're in-sync together. Their first win will probably happen here and in the process Iris will become the first main character other than Ash to beat a gym leader. History making tbh!

Cilan beat Chili. It was broken then.
 

TheFonz

Pokemon Semi-Master
Iris getting Dragonite was probably to compensate for Axew never evolving.

Still I understand why people see it as cheap, before Dragonite Iris' team looked rather underwhelming. She had one strong pokemon, a baby Axew, and a cute Emonga.

Then all of a sudden she gets Dragonite to make her team look much more impressive immediately. Arguably without Dragonite Iris would have had the weakest team of the original 4 girls.

Don't forget about Emolga being disobedient and battling how it wanted to until Iris said one little thing to it right before the battle against the creepy Watchog guy. Then poof, it was conveniently gone. Followed by Axew's one time Outrage

I wish we would have seen Axew truely grow like we did with Torchic, Treecko, Charmander, Chimchar, etc. It's not the same as bonding with a Dragonite who is already battle competent and had a much better moveset than most of the cast's current Pokémon
 
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