March 8th: SM65 - Ilima and Eievui Have Ilimade Their Entrance!!

[ShadowForce720]

You have to battle the Ultra Beasts to capture them, though. Especially since there's no guarantee all of the Ultra Beasts will be like Buzzwole. Don't forget, Nihilego was very antagonistic. And aside from Xurkitree and Kartana, the other Ultra Beasts sound far more threatening and dangerous than Buzzwole according to their Pokedex entries.

This Ultra Guardians arc is going to get really boring really fast if it's just going to be Ash and Kiawe battling, and it really defeats the purpose of the others being there since they're not battlers.

Well to be fair Sophcoles did participate in the Battle Royal recently, and it's not like we know when the next Ultra Beast is going to appear heck for all we know, it could be a little while and we could easily wind up with some more captures and evolutions happening soon to help out.

 

[Vipsoccermaster]

Well to be fair Sophcoles did participate in the Battle Royal recently, and it's not like we know when the next Ultra Beast is going to appear heck for all we know, it could be a little while and we could easily wind up with some more captures and evolutions happening soon to help out.

True, but he wasn't able to do much since the Masked Royal easily out-performed Sophocles and Charjabug within seconds of the Battle Royal starting. And yes, they couldn't do anything to out-match Incineroar.

 

[Mega Altaria]

Looks like the animation for Swift has been slightly changed as the points of the stars seem to be more rounded as opposed to be sharp in previous series and it is used by Ilima's Eevee, as seen in the new preview. And also it's the first time the move will be shown in the Sun and Moon anime.

 

[Golden_Latias]

I actually thought that move was Last Resort.

If Eevee can use its Z-Move, it has to know Last Resort, after all.

 

[Mega Altaria]

I actually thought that move was Last Resort.

If Eevee can use its Z-Move, it has to know Last Resort, after all.

Last Resort has never been used in the anime before so it will be interesting to see its animation in the battle. Maybe that Eevee could use it once it's been boosted by Extreme Evoboost and take out Team Skull very easily.

Regarding Swift though, I've seen it too many times in the anime that I somehow know what the animation looks like, especially when Serena's Sylveon, even when as an Eevee, overused it in XY, and back then it definitely looked like golden stars that are being shot out, surrounded with golden sparkles.

So it looks like that Ilima's Eevee's moveset is Swift, Last Resort and Attract.

 

[DatsRight]

I was already annoyed back in XY(Z) with the writers insisting of sticking with the character tropes with Ash taking care of all the action, battling or dealing threatening stuffs. So, I wasn't surprised that the trend continues in SM as well.

In fairness I remember Serena and Clemont being used in a LOT of action situations, just in a far less developed manner than Ash, they always got the jobber villains while Ash got the more formidable battles (even against Team Rocket Ash could sometimes sell them being threats and make things interesting, while the other two had to always get the curb stomps), and while Ash could sometimes put himself in the thick of things in some eventful way, Serena was plot armoured (there's only so many times dancing can work as a chekhov's skill against bad guys ) and Clemont just had his deus ex machina gadgets.

If anything I could argue the problem there was overusing these characters for battles when it wasn't really their niche, having battles inflict their development when they couldn't make it interesting (Clemont had the odd good battle but he was more the science guy). It looked like they wanted to diverse the XY cast but they were still slaves to the formula. I actually like that SM is playing more with the idea that battling doesn't have to be the be-all-end-all point of training and having situations other strategies come in handy, which makes things less repetitive and the characters more diverse.

The bigger problem is that for the most part, it's STILL the battlers that are getting the more versatile roles. Ash and Kiawe stopped Buzzwole with a non-battling strategy, while Ash is more liable to partake in strange methods like being host for the Morelull or playing Passimianball. Sophocles and Lillie have had the odd good role due to being the brains of the team, but in terms of agenda and abilities, a lot of them feel very under-utilised, even without battling. Mallow hasn't got to do ANYTHING with Steenee besides beat up Team Rocket a couple times, and it really doesn't feel like it has to be that way.

(I just know I'm going to get an infraction and banned for talking smack about XY again despite the fact I didn't even bring it up so don't be surprised if I'm gone for a while. )

 

[AznKei]

In fairness I remember Serena and Clemont being used in a LOT of action situations, just in a far less developed manner than Ash, they always got the jobber villains while Ash got the more formidable battles (even against Team Rocket Ash could sometimes sell them being threats and make things interesting, while the other two had to always get the curb stomps), and while Ash could sometimes put himself in the thick of things in some eventful way, Serena was plot armoured (there's only so many times dancing can work as a chekhov's skill against bad guys ) and Clemont just had his deus ex machina gadgets.

If anything I could argue the problem there was overusing these characters for battles when it wasn't really their niche, having battles inflict their development when they couldn't make it interesting (Clemont had the odd good battle but he was more the science guy). It looked like they wanted to diverse the XY cast but they were still slaves to the formula. I actually like that SM is playing more with the idea that battling doesn't have to be the be-all-end-all point of training and having situations other strategies come in handy, which makes things less repetitive and the characters more diverse.

The bigger problem is that for the most part, it's STILL the battlers that are getting the more versatile roles. Ash and Kiawe stopped Buzzwole with a non-battling strategy, while Ash is more liable to partake in strange methods like being host for the Morelull or playing Passimianball. Sophocles and Lillie have had the odd good role due to being the brains of the team, but in terms of agenda and abilities, a lot of them feel very under-utilised, even without battling. Mallow hasn't got to do ANYTHING with Steenee besides beat up Team Rocket a couple times, and it really doesn't feel like it has to be that way.

(I just know I'm going to get an infraction and banned for talking smack about XY again despite the fact I didn't even bring it up so don't be surprised if I'm gone for a while. )

The thing with me is that XY(Z) was the saga that I managed to watch it fully, so it was more prone to be criticized. I'm not really battle obsessed in order enjoy the show, I'm generally looking for human/Pokemon diverse interactions and the companions spotlights matter to me more than Ash's, since we got to see them fully in one region before they're gone.

I know for Serena, her goal doesn't involve battling but in threatening situations, she's willing to participate them. But it was also painful to see Team Flare grunts minor Pokemon being unfazed by Serena's Pokemon combined attacks despite all the developments she got, and Clemont was shafted from his focused episode against Xerosic in favor of Ash and Alain.

I happened to a make fan project after XY(Z) ended, because I stopped believing the producers/writers to deliver what I wanted to see. I'm still watching SM out of passtime and curiosity what will happen next, but my expectations about the show is much lower, and even if there's the cast spotlight issues, I kinda moved on about them since I'm being through these before.

As for the episode, I'm looking forward because I love Eevee. Sure, people might be tired to see the Pokemon more often, but I rather see Eevee than Pikachu, especially since Pokemon Yellow we're stuck to choose the latter as a starter.

 

[DatsRight]

I know for Serena, her goal doesn't involve battling but in threatening situations, she's willing to participate them. But it was also painful to see Team Flare grunts minor Pokemon being unfazed by Serena's Pokemon combined attacks despite all the developments she got, and Clemont was shafted from his focused episode against Xerosic in favor of Ash and Alain.

Her failing against grunts made sense since while she was WILLING in these situations, she wasn't necessarily shown to be any more of a battler. She could take out jobbers like Team Rocket at their worst, but most other more difficult battles something always intervened before she got her butt handed to her (eg. one of her Pokemon evolving, the battle called off, or someone saving her). She was made to put up more of a fight in her last battle with Ash, but I think that was because her new goal of contests pretty much required her to show she could improve as a battler.

The female characters are usually always in state of mediocrity anyway, since even ones that do battle don't have nearly as many developed fights as Ash. They're more novice but at the same time, I don't think the writers like showing them get their butt whooped too often compared to the guys, hence most of them never really getting too involved as battlers besides the basic curb stomps like against Team Rocket or contest battles which are more about choreography, ie. stuff they can justify them getting through without much effort or damage. (Serena rather ironically had a clean winning streak and so far none of the SM girls have been knocked out in battle either). It doesn't stick out as much in SM because it's far less action focused so requires battling less often, but at the same time, whatever is going on, the girls still often get the least focus as trainers.

Clemont and Sophocles...are harder to say, except that they're more the third wheel male character so are the ones most often needed to take a backseat, and out of them, Ash and the cute girl, they're the ones most free game to fall to the Worf Effect and get beaten down. Though I'm still placing bets on Sophocles improving before Mallow does.

It would be interesting if the creative team ever had the guts to introduce a protagonist who they openly show just isn't cut out for battling, but was developed in other fields, much like Ash is a great battler, but is allowed to fail miserably at other sports. So far batting's the one thing the writers are unwilling to make one of the twerps a 'loser' in, even the ones that aren't good at it.

 

[AznKei]

Her failing against grunts made sense since while she was WILLING in these situations, she wasn't necessarily shown to be any more of a battler. She could take out jobbers like Team Rocket at their worst, but most other more difficult battles something always intervened before she got her butt handed to her (eg. one of her Pokemon evolving, the battle called off, or someone saving her). She was made to put up more of a fight in her last battle with Ash, but I think that was because her new goal of contests pretty much required her to show she could improve as a battler.

I don't expect her to defeat all the grunts Pokemons with her attacks but I would be more forgiving if her attacks made them struggle a little bit or stunned than being completely unfazed until Steven intervenes. I mean, other Serena's opponents had their Pokemons struggle a little bit or being stunned so I wondered why they couldn't have done the same thing with the Flare grunts as well. So I would conclude that they're just trolling her period. As for her winning the showcases, they just wanted to make her progress quickly because they were rushing it and didn't really have faith about the whole thing.

My issue isn't about sex, is more how they push Ash so hard that his companions got reduced as side/joke characters, as explained from that topic: http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?661355-How-much-does-Ash-affect-your-enjoyment-of-a-series.

 

[DatsRight]

The problem is Ash is a more flexible character than them. In order for a character to develop they have to be fallible and be put in pressured enough situations that they need to improvise or get new lights from them, and as mentioned before I think they frown upon having the girls suffer the same way Ash does on a regular basis. But at the same time if they have them regularly involved and then put them on the winning end of things to appease that, they risk looking more competent than Ash by miles. Ash can be competent and fallible, he can win and lose by miles, which is ripe for more developed situations.

Take your example with Serena vs Skull. They want to sell Skull as a threat, but at the same time they never actually attack Serena or her team, beauty is never tarnished throughout the whole arc in fact. The choice is have Serena being the only one inflicting damage (and thus being on the winning end after all) or have them stand still but no sell everything. LOGICALLY they could have just had the Skull grunts overpower but Serena put up a decent fight or vice versa, but as said, girls getting beat downs seems to be a no-go outside harmless slapstick.

I think we might have seriously deviated from the main topic now though.

 

[AznKei]

The problem is Ash is a more flexible character than them. In order for a character to develop they have to be fallible and be put in pressured enough situations that they need to improvise or get new lights from them, and as mentioned before I think they frown upon having the girls suffer the same way Ash does on a regular basis. But at the same time if they have them regularly involved and then put them on the winning end of things to appease that, they risk looking more competent than Ash by miles. Ash can be competent and fallible, he can win and lose by miles, which is ripe for more developed situations.

Take your example with Serena vs Skull. They want to sell Skull as a threat, but at the same time they never actually attack Serena or her team, beauty is never tarnished throughout the whole arc in fact. The choice is have Serena being the only one inflicting damage (and thus being on the winning end after all) or have them stand still but no sell everything. LOGICALLY they could have just had the Skull grunts overpower but Serena put up a decent fight or vice versa, but as said, girls getting beat downs seems to be a no-go outside harmless slapstick.

I think we might have seriously deviated from the main topic now though.

Yeah, I agree to stop this. Sorry that I got carried about what happened from the previous saga.

 

[Mega Altaria]

There is one move I just forgot that Ilima's Eevee had; in the appearance trailer, it is revealed that Ilima's Eevee knows Quick Attack because Ilima called out 'Denkosekka', which is Japanese for Quick Attack. Therefore Ilima's Eevee has a full moveset.

 

[playerking]

There is one move I just forgot that Ilima's Eevee had; in the appearance trailer, it is revealed that Ilima's Eevee knows Quick Attack because Ilima called out 'Denkosekka', which is Japanese for Quick Attack. Therefore Ilima's Eevee has a full moveset.

It's only shown to use Attract, Quick Attack and Swift so far.

 

[Mega Altaria]

It's only shown to use Attract, Quick Attack and Swift so far.

It also used Extreme Evoboost in the previews and because its base move is Last Resort then it must have Last Resort because how could Ilima use the Z-Move Extreme Evoboost if Eevee doesn't have Last Resort.