Marvel Universe Discussion Thread - **SPOILER WARNING** (movies, shows, etc.)

[Monster Guy]

Spoiler

Agatha has a great theme song

I knew Agnes was going to be her, and I was still shocked when they revealed it.

 

[Locormus]

Spoiler: ep 7

I had read some "Agnes is the antagonist" theories lol, and they did make quite a bit of sense. I'm not too familiar with the comics tho, so who is "Agatha Harkness" supposed to be?

Also I loved the ending just because I'm a big fan of villain songs

Agatha Harkness is a witch. I think she's best defined as an ambiguous anti-hero/ally. Sometimes she helps Wanda, sometimes she has her own agenda.

 

[1rkhachatryan]

Ya'll holy **** this episode !!!! Ya'll **** Hayward, I hope Monica, Vision, or Wanda straight up blast him to ashes smh, what a piece of actual ****.

 

[Litleonid]

That episode was actually pretty sad, but we FINALLY got the name drop! Scarlett Witch!

 

[Locormus]

Ya'll holy **** this episode !!!! Ya'll **** Hayward, I hope Monica, Vision, or Wanda straight up blast him to ashes smh, what a piece of actual ****.

Got to be fair, most of the episode felt kinda slow and there were moments where it felt a bit hammy (unfortunately, those were Kathryn Hahn-scenes), but them mid-credit scenes are picking up!

Getting back on the 'hammy'-remark, I personally think it's because we're getting introduced to witchcraft as opposed to 'energy manipulation'. I wasn't feeling the spellcasting.

The introscene had me hyped (the red Marvel-logo going purple was awesome), but then went on for too long. It went on for about 4,5 minutes. I literally could've seen it be like a minute shorter, since it didn't establish anything other then Agatha being from the distant past, being evil and killing her coven (that was btw trying to kill her for some dabbling in dark magic). I didn't need this scene to understand that she's evil. I mean 'I killed Sparky' told us enough about her character in the last episode, right? That aside it looked odd as hell. I mean the other witches had blue magic, she has purple. That I get, but they attack her and she's in physical pain. In her agony she unleashes her own purple magic and it starts to take over the other witches magic - and draw in their power from them. It looks rather clunky as all that changes from the animation is the color. Then 'mother' starts her beam and.. and Agatha just takes it as if it's nothing (but doesn't use the same magic-stealing technique). She has stolen all but 'mother's life force and releases herself from the bind. Now at this moment, I assume she's a fully powered villain. Then 'mother' uses her beam again, but somehow this time -somehow- it knocks her into the pole and it does make Agatha scream? Why didn't it make her scream the last time? Just a bit clunky.

But that's about the most criticism I could give. There were many scenes with Kathryn that I really liked, but yeah. Some of the scenes were just a bit awkward that I got a bit out of the immersion. Maybe it's due to having seen her 'acting' the sitcom-tropes as Agnes and she's now fully Agatha.

Lol at Fietro.. xD

What was with Oleg's coat?!? The style and color looked way too modern. I liked the rest of the scene. The implication that Wanda always had these powers (even during the bombing) was nice and it might lead to us learning that she and Pietro had the X-gene - and that the Mind Stone awakened it - and suped it up: and that's how she became a Nexus-being.

Sad that we didn't get to see any new commercial, but I guess that the format had its run. The flashbacks even had visual nods to them. The Stark-bomb and the toaster from the first episode had the same beep for instance.

I got legit teary-eyed when Vision said that grief is just love that's too strong to let go. And then Agatha does the sarcastic cry-face and I'm like damn you Marvel for toying with us like that.

The Hayward-scenes were fine (yes he's a dick). I loved how he let her see for herself and had the men with the guns stand down. Again, really emotional when we were shown what Vision had planned for them in WestView.

I still really want to know who's Jimmy's missing person is from the Witness Protection-programme that was in WestView.

That episode was actually pretty sad, but we FINALLY got the name drop! Scarlett Witch!

Now we just need to learn what it means from Agatha's point of view.

 

[Monster Guy]

This episode was a bit of a letdown for me... I hope the finale is amazing.

 

[Locormus]

This episode was a bit of a letdown for me... I hope the finale is amazing.

I think I get what you mean. We got the 'face/heel'-turn from Agatha last episode, and in any normal superhero-story, we get a fight-scene afterwards, maybe a badguy monologue beforehand, but pretty much 99% guaranteed a battlescene.

Instead, we got an episode with literally 5 to 6 fully fledged flashbacks: Salem, Sokovia, Hydra, Avengers-compound, Sword-Westview (can't remember if we saw the Wakanda-scene here or if that was episode 6 or 7).

That - and eventhough epic, the endscene was kinda brief and the biggest reveal was in the midcredit.

But in fairness, Agatha could apparently slurp Wanda's magical power as if she was a juicebox, but before doing so,I think her needing to understand where those behemoth/(nexus) powers came from are important before doing so.

That and it fills in the gaps in the history of one of my favorite Avengers.

I mean I've been binging Cap1, Cap2, AoU, Cap3, BP, IW and Endgame just for WV and F&Ws. And the flashbacks from ep8 add a lot to her AoU+Cap3 narrative, but yeah, would've bloated those movies even more.

For Loki, I think Thor1+Avengers1 will do, as it's that Loki that will escape. Maybe the end of Endgame.

 

[Nyter]

I honestly feel like The MCU movies did not really touch up on Wanda and Vision growing romantically together. CA: Civil War had them somewhat at odds so I didn't really see their romance bloom in that one. And then all of a sudden in Avengers: Infinity War they were dating. It felt forced and rushed and really did not give me THAT MUCH to emotionally invest in.

But then episode 8 of WandaVision came along and changed all that. That dialogue between the two in the Avengers compound was so sweet and heartfelt. How she was alone and finding comfort in him and he was discovering deep emotions with, through, and for her.

Had I seen this scene before the Infinity War scene of Wanda having to remove the Soul Stone from Vision's body, it would have made it so much more sadder. To know that Wanda had to end the life of the one who brought back happiness to her after losing her family. The way I am emotionally invested in their relationship even more is really tugging at me heart and I already know I am going to have my ocular saline secretions jerked in episode 9.

Everything she did, she did in the name of love because...

"What is grief if not love persevering.."

*cries*

 

[Zoruagible]

I love how people thought "Pietro" was the Fox X-Men Quicksilver, Mephisto, Nightmare, etc.... only to turn out to be some guy called Boner lol

Only a few weeks until Zemo returns! Though I'm far more excited for Bad Batch, at least it'll help with the wait

 

[Storm the Lycanroc]

And with the conclusion of WandaVision we now know what could happen in Dr. Strange In the Multiverse of Madness. Hopefully the film wont be delayed again due to COVID concerns.

 

[Litleonid]

She has the Drakhold...This could get pretty interesting, especially if they choose to bring in Chthon. Also, this might not truly be goodbye for Paul Bettany if White Vision has had Vision's memories restored, essentially restoring Vision to his original body. Now its just a matter of whether or not he and Wanda reunite.

Now that we officially have the Scarlett Witch, we just have 2 weeks until we'll find out if Sam Wilson will truly become Captain America.

 

[1rkhachatryan]

Wow this was amazing, was hoping Monica would get a bit more action but I get it, her powers are new. I'm glad that Wanda in the end did the right thing. Hopefully that post credit scene wasn't some hint that she's going evil or anything.

Can't wait to see Monica in Captain Marvel 2 and Wanda in Doctor Strange 2 .

 

[Monster Guy]

I enjoyed the series, but I also expected more... Hope it’s worth it.

 

[1rkhachatryan]

I enjoyed the series, but I also expected more... Hope it’s worth it.

See I was the opposite, I thought it was going to be much worse based on the beginning lol.

 

[Nyter]

Well I now need to recall how Agents of SHIELD left off the dark hold and theorize how it ended up in The Scarlet Witch's possession. And wasn't it on the Runaways series as well?

I love trying to piece together these timelines.

 

[Storm the Lycanroc]

Well I now need to recall how Agents of SHIELD left off the dark hold and theorize how it ended up in The Scarlet Witch's possession. And wasn't it on the Runaways series as well?

I love trying to piece together these timelines.

Is it possible there's multiple copies?

Otherwise I've heard all the TV shows before Disney + arent exactly canon anymore.

 

[Locormus]

@1rkhachatryan I had issues quoting this post, but I guess now is as good of time to revisit it.

Yeah. I don't know. I wasn't really impressed by the Captain Marvel-movie when it came out. The plot felt contrived - and as a prequel to all MCU-movies aside from CaptainAmerica1, it also felt really detached. I mean I could start to see where some things would lead to (Fury's past being the most interesting part for me and the Skrulls/Secret Invasion-plot).

But since we now have Monica (and her past with Carol seems anything but happy) and we'll get Miss Marvel as well. I'm guessing we'll see some history jumping again, but now to maybe the early 2000s and we'll see why Monica is on edge every single time when Carol gets mentioned.

I'm getting that feeling that Captain Marvel is going to be the Thor of Phase 4 and Phase 5: Thor's lore brought in most of the Infinity Stones and I feel as if these two phases will revolve around the MultiVerse, but also really connect earth and space a lot more.

WandaVision -> Ms.Marvel -> Eternals -> Captain Marvel 2 -> Secret Invasion
WandaVision -> Spiderman3 -> DrStrange2 -> AntMan3

But to be fair, Marvel's Phase 4 slate is just all over the place. I mean in between stuff like SpiderMan which features Multiverse shenanigans and the Celestials being brought in during the Eternals-movie and a Thor4-movie which will probably be more space-based then Earth we'll also have a Hawkeye-series, a She-Hulk series and Antman and the Wasp delving deeper into the QuantumRealm and MoonKnight and BLADE. It's just hard to define what the story will be or if it will be a clusterf... of epic proportions.

I mean: Phase 1: Introductions and a pay-off movie
Phase 2: A1 set up most movies about personal trauma/reflection and growth while introducing the GotG, but they still fit the theme of personal trauma and growth and despite its faults, AoU was a great way to hammer that home: You have this trauma, but what are you actually going to do about it? Tony thinks about the intergalactic threat and that consumes him, which leads to Ultron.
Phase 3: It's about breaking-up, but coming together again in the end. I mean Civil War does this best to set the arc up. Ragnarok shows us the brothers and Hulk coming together, and BlackPanther with the Wakandan People and both T'Challa and Erik's worldviews. AntMan3 literally unites the Pym Family, the Guardians also pretty much fall out while Quill is obsessed with bonding with Ego, but rejoin as a family ala Fast&Furious at the end. Infinity War also shows the scattered nature and just how broken some relationships were, but those get mended before the end in Endgame.

I just don't see that single plot-line in this fourth phase. But yeah, still really excited for the stories which I can see unfolding.

I honestly feel like The MCU movies did not really touch up on Wanda and Vision growing romantically together. CA: Civil War had them somewhat at odds so I didn't really see their romance bloom in that one. And then all of a sudden in Avengers: Infinity War they were dating. It felt forced and rushed and really did not give me THAT MUCH to emotionally invest in.

But then episode 8 of WandaVision came along and changed all that. That dialogue between the two in the Avengers compound was so sweet and heartfelt. How she was alone and finding comfort in him and he was discovering deep emotions with, through, and for her.

Had I seen this scene before the Infinity War scene of Wanda having to remove the Soul Stone from Vision's body, it would have made it so much more sadder. To know that Wanda had to end the life of the one who brought back happiness to her after losing her family. The way I am emotionally invested in their relationship even more is really tugging at me heart and I already know I am going to have my ocular saline secretions jerked in episode 9.

Everything she did, she did in the name of love because...

"What is grief if not love persevering.."

*cries*

I disagree, there's plenty of moments that clearly have WanSion-subtext.
- Vision enters her room unannounced, he's shocked to find Steve there (as this was their way of meeting each other in secret).
- Wanda casually calls him Vis.
- Wanda is sending him messages to play it coy through body language/eyes. Vision picks it up, but his tone of voice can't hide his awkwardness.
- During the Ross-scene, Wanda and Vision are sitting next to each other.
- In the scene afterwards, they're again sitting next to each other and as Wanda replies to Tony: "You're saying they'll come for me", to which Vision says: "We would protect you", and the two give each other a look.
- Vision is making a Sokovian dish to lift Wanda's spirits. Vision is visibly and audibly nervous and watches closely as Wanda tastes it. Vision are inside each others personal space in this scene. Wanda is giving him enough smiles.
- Vision says: "no one dislikes you Wanda", to which Wanda replies with a "thanks". Her body language and facial gestures suggest that she expected something else to be said (like 'I really care for you Wanda'), as they probably are at this point well aware of their attraction to each other. And Vision says nerdy stuff that digs his hole even deeper.
- Wanda's asks if he's afraid of her, and then there's Vision cracking a nerdy joke to save the situation and it scores him a genuine laugh (which visually reassures him).
- After that they open up about their powers and their insecurities about them.
- As the cooking-scene sours, Vision still mentions to gently stop Wanda with an arm on her arm. And Wanda asks him what he wants: 'to people to see you, as I do'.
- As Clint attempts to abduct Wanda (to join Steve's team), there's a sense that Wanda doesn't want to go while Vision is zapped up by Clint's electric current arrows. She doesn't want to leave him dirty like that and doesn't fight him until he leaves her no other choice.
- At the Airport-scene, Vision almost immediately checks up on Wanda after Rhodey knocked her out. He cradles her gently. They both say sorry to each other. This is a pair making up after a fight.

There's so much subtext. Saying they're "somewhat at odds" is really misreading the situation. They were even openly flirting in most of their scenes.

But I do agree that the scenes from the flashback add a lot more critical moments. You can literally see the spark that marked the beginning of their relationship in the scene you mentioned.

 

[Monster Guy]

I am not enjoying Falcon and Winter Soldier as much as Wandavision.

 

[Locormus]

I am not enjoying Falcon and Winter Soldier as much as Wandavision.

Why?

I mean they're two very different shows and this one is by design more MCUish. It just needs to get going.

It really feels like the opening acts of CA:WS and CivilWar. Which is very fitting for a story about Cap's legacy.

 

[Dragalge]

Also it is comparing an episode/pilot to an already-finished season.