Marvel Universe Discussion Thread - **SPOILER WARNING** (movies, shows, etc.)

[Blue Saturday]

What are your thoughts on the raimi trilogy and TSM 1&2?

Raimi trilogy with 1&2 are good, 3 iirc suffered from forcing in a lot of characters at once (if I recall Sandman was originally the only mandated villain) and people hated Symbiote Peter’s behavior (which is obviously meant to be comical and seems to have aged into love now) I think Raimi managed to do well making the characters feel grounded and real and it’s a huge contrast to MCU’s excessive need to make everything quirky or snarky.

TASM1 and 2 were fine for what I initially remember of them, people hate on them for being cash grabs by Sony to hold on to rights and licensing but damn if Andrew Garfield doesn’t make for a good Spider-Man IMO just sandwiched into movies that weren’t very well received. Easily the best iteration of Flash without a shadow of a doubt. I don’t feel super fair judging them without a clean rewatch in adulthood. After seeing Andrew do such love having a third movie for Amazingverse might not be a bad idea.

I really am in the mood to give all the movies a nice solid watch through given the nostalgia boom they’re getting on Twitter. I could use a strong refresher on the Sony versions as I only remember seeing them one time.

 

[Morax]

Raimi trilogy with 1&2 are good, 3 iirc suffered from forcing in a lot of characters at once (if I recall Sandman was originally the only mandated villain) and people hated Symbiote Peter’s behavior (which is obviously meant to be comical and seems to have aged into love now) I think Raimi managed to do well making the characters feel grounded and real and it’s a huge contrast to MCU’s excessive need to make everything quirky or snarky.

TASM1 and 2 were fine for what I initially remember of them, people hate on them for being cash grabs by Sony to hold on to rights and licensing but damn if Andrew Garfield doesn’t make for a good Spider-Man IMO just sandwiched into movies that weren’t very well received. Easily the best iteration of Flash without a shadow of a doubt. I don’t feel super fair judging them without a clean rewatch in adulthood. After seeing Andrew do such love having a third movie for Amazingverse might not be a bad idea.

I really am in the mood to give all the movies a nice solid watch through given the nostalgia boom they’re getting on Twitter. I could use a strong refresher on the Sony versions as I only remember seeing them one time.

My problem with the MCU is the same i had with SM tbh : making unfunny jokes every second and absolutely killing any tension the plot/battles had.

Andrew garfield is an AMAZING actor. Give silence, hacksaw ridge and tick tick boom a watch you’ll see how talented he is.

 

[Locormus]

Guess what?

Picture me sitting at home on Friday. In the late hours, I suddenly see that our nations 'Outbreak Management Team' was planning an emergency conviening with our head of state on Saturday, due to Omicron. Saturday evening, the news broke, and I was just praying that stuff would go into effect come Monday - as I already had tickets for a Sunday midday viewing.. And then my country went into a hard lockdown, per Sunday morning - until at least Januari 14th.

GOD F***ing DAMN! I WAS SEVEN HOURS AWAY!!!

Then my girlfriend asked why my mood instantly soured - and gave several ideas that might help (such as floating the idea that the movie might be up on premium vod in our country soon due to these measures) - but also...

Why not just go to a neighbouring country? As it just happens, I'm Dutch.. and the Netherlands isn't a big country and I only live like an hour and half away from Antwerp, which is a big city in Belgium. Which apparently didn't have a curfue and no lockdown and no further restrictions for visitors from the Netherlands.

Thus I looked up a theater there for a viewing on Sunday and well, got a pretty good spot in an Imax theater. Kinda bummed out that my commute was actually longer then the actual movie, but at least I didn't get spoiled!

And what a movie it was! Honestly a 9.5/10. The half point is purely because of the wonky as hell way they treated Tom Hardy.

I love how he's essentially graduated from HighSchool now and moved into the city. Which eleviates the issue for Tom Holland looking like a kid since now he can be aged up a bit for an ESU-storyline.

Not Kate's mom putting a hit out on Clint lol. Does that mean that lady from Sam and Bucky's show works for her?? Cuz I thought she hired Yelena.

The mom be like I can't lose my kid to violence then decides to work with someone who would kill her without even a second thought.

Val recruited Yelena to her initiative, and her ordering the hit on Clint in the BlackWidow PCS was just giving her an assignment - which now falls straight into Hawkeye's timeline. Val is supposedly a government liaison. Eleanor probably has her number through Kingpin (who certainly does have his puppets within the government (as we saw in DareDevil s3). As such, Val definitely doesn't work for Eleanor Bishop.

I suspect it's more that the lady from FATWS (Val) and Kate's mum work for or within the same circles as Kingpin - maybe Bishop Security is a legitimate front for Kingpin's activities. Would explain why a black market auction occurred where the mum held a charity event? A reflection of the "hiding illegal activities within an event for good deeds" (for lack of a better phrase).

Here's a bombshell: The hotel that auction was held at is the same actual hotel Wilson Fisk bought in DareDevil s3 - or at least the same location is used for filming both scenes. Charlie Cox and Vincent D'onofrio playing their DareDevil-characters seals this as practically canon. The implication being that Kingpin still owns the hotel and probably was the organizer of the auction (with Eleanor Bishop providing the smokescreen charity-event).

No Way Home is 10/10! Unlike some certain sequels(*cough* 3 and ASM 2) it actually handles the multiple villain thing pretty well. I was a bit disappointed with how they handled Venom but it's obvious Peter will be getting his own symbiote in the next trilogy, and since the ending implies he'll be more grounded I'm hoping we get to see Black Cat(Especially her!), Kraven, Mr. Negative and a proper Rhino in the next trilogy.

The end of the movie was literally One More Day done right and since Marvel/Sony have the "We use him in other movies, you take one of our toys" clause I hope they stick to street level heroes like Kate Bishop and Daredevil.

If that's the case then Kingpin's going to be the leader of the Dark Avengers team they're building up to instead of Osborn
Which that's probably the best way to do it if Osborn isn't going to be the leader, Kingpin's popularity is enough to stop people from getting upset. I just want Osborn back period, don't care what they do so long as Harry doesn't turn into a villain for a third time.

I think DocOck and Electro were handled well in my eyes, GreenGoblin/Norman was handled incredibly close to the source material and was more of an actual threat to Peter's integrity as a character as opposed to a just a campy villain he happens to have met in his personal life.

By the life of me I didn't understand Lizard and Sandman's motivations.. Sandman wanted to go home to his daughter, so why the hostility after he saw Peter fix Otto? I guess Lizard didn't want to get fixed because he'd miss an arm again - or wanted to rehash his plans in this universe? If anyone can clear this up, I'll be grateful.

The Venom endcreditscene was a bit 'ugh'-gut punch.. and it seems as if they've written off Tom Hardy vs. Tom Holland unless they cast Hardy as Eddie in the MCU as well, which is possible, but yeah.. simply wouldn't be the same Venom.

I'm a big fan of the storyline they did with Morbius in the 90's cartoon. But that entire movie's place within whatever continuity it's in seems so off and it just seems like somebody dropped the ball. I mean Keaton Vulture suggests that it's in the MCU, but is it? Because if it is.. Then ManSpider and Blade (our movie, you get a toy-agreement) v. Morbius+BlackCat+Kraven = YES, please. Throw in the new Wolverine for good meassure.

I can see Kingpin being Val's employer. I think General Ross still has potential though if he has an extremist turn in She-Hulk.

Tobey's Spider-Man felt so underwhelming compared to the version from the Sam Raimi trilogy and it doesn't help that in the scene where all 3 spider-men are getting ready to fight Tobey had a problem with his back as if he's a weak old man that's run down and past his prime. But it could all be just in my head and could be that he's more used to fighting alone and had to share the spotlight with 2 other spider-men.

Well, the back thing was a gag referencing his 'I'm back/my back'-moment.

If I could change one line, "You're amazing!" was a nice little bit of fanservice but..

I guess it's going to be weird because surely Tom Holland is perpetually going to appear to be a 17-year-old looking kid so progression into an "adult Spider-man" will beinteresting. Almost hard to take him seriously.

Nah, that line was fine. Hammering in on the 'amazing' felt forced in a good way.

They can take a bit of liberty with the ageing department. Surely Tom will hit puberty at some point.. >.>

Joking aside, I see "adult-Spiderman" and CollegeFreshman-Spiderman as two completely different things. By all means, a college freshman is almost more often then not still a teen.. Whereas Tobey in this movie was clearly portraying an adult version of Spiderman.

Forgot my fav scene of “Spider-Man” as a hero, when he’s in the apartment and his spidey senses are going off. The tension and heaviness of it all from Holland’s POV. He’s trying to detect the “villain” in a room full of villains….it turns out to be the Goblin taking over…just straight chills and absolute god tier portrayal without a shadow of a doubt.

That was the scene of the movie for me. Yeah, the three Spidey's meeting on the roof of Midtown High was amazing as well, but the tension of that scene was crazy.

If I was forced to give negatives of this movie:

• Sandman's conflict with Peter feels REALLY forced tbh
• Dr. Strange had to hold the idiot ball to kick off the plot despite Wong's intial skepticism and his own.
• They managed to cure the villains in a day and have their fixes in a few hours, I know Spider-man's altruism is a big thing but bringing all five out at the same time to his apartment in an attempt to fix and trust them was a little.....?
• Too many scenes of meme dialogue/quips instead of just letting the mood linger for a bit which broke up some tension badly.
• Nostalgia-baiting covering up a lot of criticisms of the movie on its own, "With great comes great responsibilities...." just biting off the Raimi films.

1. Agreed. Same with Lizard.
2. Peter used the same words as Strange did when he spoke to the Ancient One in DS1, it might've triggered something.
3. Trusting them was a bit odd, but the sciencing the crap out of it didn't in my eyes when Peter still had access to Stark-tech.
4+5. Honestly, this movie clearly was a love-letter to the entire SpideyFranchise thus far. Having an amazing amount of eastereggs is part of the fun. The same can be said about Endgame.
6. They actually fixed the line here to be 'with great power there must also come great responsibility', which is the original line written by StanLee. Which was a fitting tribute. Giving that line to May also was the best thing they could've done in my eyes ever since they gave her the FEAST-arc.

 

[Ishiftyounot]

Here's a bombshell: The hotel that auction was held at is the same actual hotel Wilson Fisk bought in DareDevil s3 - or at least the same location is used for filming both scenes. Charlie Cox and Vincent D'onofrio playing their DareDevil-characters seals this as practically canon. The implication being that Kingpin still owns the hotel and probably was the organizer of the auction (with Eleanor Bishop providing the smokescreen charity-event).

Congratulations on being able to see No Way Home! I agree with your thoughts on the movie pretty much, especially the Venom issue because I really do not see what the point was having Eddie/Venom just drop in/drop out without actually interacting with Spider-Man at all? Whilst I do appreciate a black suit symbiote Spider-Man outing for a Spider-Man 4 (it works rather nicely with Tom's Spider-Man basically losing everyone in NWH) it does convolute the whole "where does Tom Hardy fit into all this" aspect? Which, along with Morbius being an absolute mess for identifying what universe it's in (I still stand by it being in the Venomverse with Keaton's Vulture being a variant) is not a great look.

As for the above quote... huh, that's a fun little nod to Daredevil fans! Would make sense too, I'm excited to see what he's been up to. Theory going round that Daredevil got blipped and Kingpin didn't, and that's how he's become a major player again? Would be nice to see.

Also, I know it's a super unlikely thing but do you think there's a teeny chance we might see a small Spider-Man cameo or easter egg in Hawkeye? He was swinging over an ice rink that the heroes are definitely fighting on in the last episode, during winter/Christmas time, and would make an interesting end even if it was just a very small cameo or easter egg? Not sure how the Marvel/Sony deal works there but eh.

Anywho, I have binged the hell out of What If? and finished Black Widow since I couldn't get through it in one sitting, and both were... alright. I watched What If? for Doctor Strange Supreme (NWH fans will know why) and honestly he was the best bit about the series? I'd have happily skipped all episodes without him except the Star-Lord T'Challa and Captain Carter ones (the latter of whom can, respectfully, step on me) and probably felt better about the series as a whole. It just wasn't very interesting, and the voice acting/dialogue was a bit skew-whiff at times? But eh, funky effort. Black Widow was also alright, I got bored of it quite quickly unfortunately (but I also put that down to watching it when in a bad mental space) but finishing it today was fine? Not a particularly exciting film to watch, don't rank it very high on the MCU list of things to watch, but I'm happy Scarjo got her movie (even if it was like 10 years too late). Now all I'm missing is Eternals and Falcon & Winter Soldier and I'm done with the MCU until whatever comes out in 2022.

 

[Zoruagible]

That was the best season finale of all the Marvel shows, if we got just a tad more Kingpin I'd even consider it on par with Mandalorian season 2's finale!

Kingpin's obviously not dead, they wouldn't bring him and Daredevil back just to kill Wilson Fisk right away lmao. It's a camera trick
Sad Hawkeye's over but at least Boba Fett is out next week! Looking forward to that, hopefully Bad Batch season 2 or the next Marvel show(Unless it's Ironheart cause ew.....) is ready to air following it's end. It's nice when there's something to fill that void, I missed having something to look forward to each week!

 

[Ishiftyounot]

Well I didn't get my Spider-Man cameo (was wishful thinking anyway) but I got basically everything else I wanted so that was cool? Hawkeye finale was really good, and I think it's probably my favourite MCU TV show I've seen so far (and I've seen them all except for Falcon & Winter Soldier) - it has flaws, and some things weren't sorted like I wanted, but overall? Neat!

Kingpin was absolutely terrifying in this and I loved it, the dude tanked an explosion + getting hit by arrows + getting smashed into by a car and was just amazing. Honestly it made the Tracksuit Mafia being under his command seem kind-of silly? They're just random goons and there's the boss man just flinging people around and ripping car doors off with his bare hands. I loved Jack in this especially now I know I don't have to dislike him as a villain (I have zero clue what he's actually meant to be doing in this, and that's a flaw in my opinion because he kinda just... appeared? But I still like his enthusiasm) and honestly every scene with Yelena was absolute perfection! Maya got a neat resolution setting up her Disney+ show (although I am not really sure what she's meant to be doing in that?) and I just loved seeing more Clint/Kate shenanigans. The mum sucks as the overall villain though, very misguided and the resolution was kind-of lame in my eyes.

Good show though, was a solid ending! Think my favourites now are Hawkeye > Loki > Wandavision > What If? with FATWS fitting in somewhere once I get around to starting it. For now though, it's time to go back to Star Wars ready for Book of Boba Fett.

 

[Locormus]

Honestly, coming off a NWH-high this kinda felt a bit.. weak? The resolutions ended up where I expected them to go.

I expected:
Clint v. Yelena talk it out: Check.
Kate and Mom talk it out: Sort of.
Maya and Kingpin left unresolved: Disputed.

So 2 out of 3 isn't bad, and time will tell if it was 3/3.. as the panning away when Maya confronted Fisk suggests that Kingpin isn't dead (if you've seen SquidGames you know what I mean), so he can still be her bigbad in the Echo-series.

Well I didn't get my Spider-Man cameo (was wishful thinking anyway) but I got basically everything else I wanted so that was cool? Hawkeye finale was really good, and I think it's probably my favourite MCU TV show I've seen so far (and I've seen them all except for Falcon & Winter Soldier) - it has flaws, and some things weren't sorted like I wanted, but overall? Neat!

Kingpin was absolutely terrifying in this and I loved it, the dude tanked an explosion + getting hit by arrows + getting smashed into by a car and was just amazing. Honestly it made the Tracksuit Mafia being under his command seem kind-of silly? They're just random goons and there's the boss man just flinging people around and ripping car doors off with his bare hands. I loved Jack in this especially now I know I don't have to dislike him as a villain (I have zero clue what he's actually meant to be doing in this, and that's a flaw in my opinion because he kinda just... appeared? But I still like his enthusiasm) and honestly every scene with Yelena was absolute perfection! Maya got a neat resolution setting up her Disney+ show (although I am not really sure what she's meant to be doing in that?) and I just loved seeing more Clint/Kate shenanigans. The mum sucks as the overall villain though, very misguided and the resolution was kind-of lame in my eyes.

Good show though, was a solid ending! Think my favourites now are Hawkeye > Loki > Wandavision > What If? with FATWS fitting in somewhere once I get around to starting it. For now though, it's time to go back to Star Wars ready for Book of Boba Fett.

I honestly don't think Kingpin's done for. The moment was left ambiguous on purpose. He should be her endgoal.

Also, why bring DareDevil and Kingpin back and NOT have them interact?!

I honestly thought the show made Kingpin look weak. Kingpin's supposed to be unreachable. I get that he wanted to ambush Eleanor (which is the only reason why Kate could get to him), but him making such a move on a public street within a block or two from Rockefeller Center seems CRAZY out of character. The Kingpin I knew would put his own guy in the driverseat, drive Eleanor somewhere secluded, meet her there and bash her head in.

Jacques is a character from the comics that's been a villain and hero, and even a mentor to Clint, aka the Swordsman. It made some sense to include him here, but I agree that he was just there as a red-herring.

Kate's mom is a villain in the comics, but they went for the reluctant villain here that was a Kingpin-puppet, not even out of her own debt to him... It basically meant that the only true adversaries were Kingpin and Kazi as Yelena just needed a good ol' fashioned Naruto-style Talk-no-Jutsu.. and Maya ended both of them (well, at least Kazi).

So while the resolutions were done well enough, I honestly felt that it ended quite weak?

Ps. Kingpin got hit by arrows, but his suits have protective coatings.

 

[Sham]

No Way Home was mad depressing.

The fact that Peter is essentially nobody and no longer has an identity kinda reminded me of Aelita from Code Lyoko. Even that sad look he gave MJ was upsetting. What I'm wondering however is if he's forgotten then did he go to High School? How did he get that apartment? How do the past characters memories work who were involved with working with Peter as Spiderman? Like a big portion of how Happy helped Peter beat Mysterio was building Peter a new suit... what are those memories replaced with?

I love the call back to Griffin's Spiderman being able to MJ before she fell and was killed and I also loved how they implied Maguire's Spiderman was living happily with MJ. The GG was taking way too many hits to survive. Like I get the fact that he's a super villain but beyond the suit he's just a regular guy right? How was he tanking all of those hits?

The only good part is that although Peter is forgotten, he is technically very young and has a lot of time to rebuild and restore relationships with people. Although quite frankly the ending somewhat makes almost all of the movies irrelevant. Mysterio exposing Peter doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things because everybody forgets Peter anyway, Peter and MJ getting together fully in this movie again is useless because she forgets him anyway and ultimately saving the villains will just open a reality where they are saved but the originals still get killed apparently and according to reviewers.

 

[Locormus]

No Way Home was mad depressing.

The fact that Peter is essentially nobody and no longer has an identity kinda reminded me of Aelita from Code Lyoko. Even that sad look he gave MJ was upsetting. What I'm wondering however is if he's forgotten then did he go to High School? How did he get that apartment? How do the past characters memories work who were involved with working with Peter as Spiderman? Like a big portion of how Happy helped Peter beat Mysterio was building Peter a new suit... what are those memories replaced with?

I love the call back to Griffin's Spiderman being able to MJ before she fell and was killed and I also loved how they implied Maguire's Spiderman was living happily with MJ. The GG was taking way too many hits to survive. Like I get the fact that he's a super villain but beyond the suit he's just a regular guy right? How was he tanking all of those hits?

The only good part is that although Peter is forgotten, he is technically very young and has a lot of time to rebuild and restore relationships with people. Although quite frankly the ending somewhat makes almost all of the movies irrelevant. Mysterio exposing Peter doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things because everybody forgets Peter anyway, Peter and MJ getting together fully in this movie again is useless because she forgets him anyway and ultimately saving the villains will just open a reality where they are saved but the originals still get killed apparently and according to reviewers.

First off, it's Garfield, not Griffin.

Second, it's part of the charm. As Spiderman, he constantly brought mayhem to his life as Peter Parker.. Now he's just Spiderman. Happy simply only remembers Spiderman. The logistics are a mindcfku, so it's best not to think too much about it. It's a comicbook movie afterall.

GG has enhanced strength and durability that came with the concoction he took in SM1.

I don't agree with the last part. If Mysterio hadn't exposed Peter, he'd be with his friends at MIT right now. In no disputable way has that movie changed EVERYTHING for Peter and - even though he has been forgotten by the entire world - those events remained a lasting factor in the trajectory of his life.

Think about it this way:

With FFH: Peter is alone, nobody knows him, Aunt May is clearly not with Happy, yeah, separate universes where villains became neutrals.
Without FFH-ending: Peter is with friends at MIT, nobody outside of his coregroup know he's SM, Aunt May might be with Happy, maybe somebody else - no branching of universes.

That short moment changed everything and not just for Peter, but for the entire MCU (pending DS:ITMOM).

 

[Sham]

First off, it's Garfield, not Griffin.

Second, it's part of the charm. As Spiderman, he constantly brought mayhem to his life as Peter Parker.. Now he's just Spiderman. Happy simply only remembers Spiderman. The logistics are a mindcfku, so it's best not to think too much about it. It's a comicbook movie afterall.

GG has enhanced strength and durability that came with the concoction he took in SM1.

I don't agree with the last part. If Mysterio hadn't exposed Peter, he'd be with his friends at MIT right now. In no disputable way has that movie changed EVERYTHING for Peter and - even though he has been forgotten by the entire world - those events remained a lasting factor in the trajectory of his life.

Think about it this way:

With FFH: Peter is alone, nobody knows him, Aunt May is clearly not with Happy, yeah, separate universes where villains became neutrals.
Without FFH-ending: Peter is with friends at MIT, nobody outside of his coregroup know he's SM, Aunt May might be with Happy, maybe somebody else - no branching of universes.

That short moment changed everything and not just for Peter, but for the entire MCU (pending DS:ITMOM).

Okay I made at mistake what’s your point? No need to be condescending, especially when you’re treating me saying that like some great logical mistake. I made an error with his name, deal with it.

And a “comic book movie” doesn’t make up for the poor writing. Explanation is not justification. So yes I’m going to get into logistics. You’re basically asking me to mindlessly watch the movie without using critical thinking skills.

Happy remembering only Spider-Man makes no sense because he remembers May. So does know that Spider-Man is related to May? How does he remember working with Spider-Man but never seeing his face?

Mysterio exposing Peter was useless. The entire premise of the film essentially happened because him and his friends couldn’t get into MIT. If that’s all his “exposure” amounted to then yes it’s pretty irrelevant. Peter in the original movies had to deal with being exposed but handled it differently. If the movie focused more of the negative side of Peter’s friends being punished for his identity like threats or immediate danger that’s fine but the entire movie literally happened over a college acceptation letter. All of the Spider-Men have been exposed in the past but the fact that everybody ended up forgetting him in general makes his revenge irrelevant. Yes it played a part in the overall movie but Peter got into this mess because of w

Those events remain a lasting effort in his life and his life only. Not only does this not make any sense like MJ was still wearing the necklace he gave her and still had her injuries from the fight (where her memories replaced with new ones? Then that makes it more than wiping their memories and more or less brain washing everybody) but none of the people apart it can ever remember, so yes in the perception of everybody else beyond Peter— it was useless.

Obviously you’re a stan of these movies but the ending was horrible and was not a good way to end Tom Holland’s run. And it’s just random stuff that doesn’t make any sense like how all of the Peter’s were magically able to come up with a cure for all of the villains in a few hours. You know a movie is questionable when the writers have to go on tirades explaining it to the viewers. And then said all of the questions and details will probably be answered in another movie. They couldn’t even clean up the ending of the story in one movie and instead gave the burden to another potential movie.

 

[Locormus]

Okay I made at mistake what’s your point? No need to be condescending, especially when you’re treating me saying that like some great logical mistake. I made an error with his name, deal with it.

And a “comic book movie” doesn’t make up for the poor writing. Explanation is not justification. So yes I’m going to get into logistics. You’re basically asking me to mindlessly watch the movie without using critical thinking skills.

Happy remembering only Spider-Man makes no sense because he remembers May. So does know that Spider-Man is related to May? How does he remember working with Spider-Man but never seeing his face?

Mysterio exposing Peter was useless. The entire premise of the film essentially happened because him and his friends couldn’t get into MIT. If that’s all his “exposure” amounted to then yes it’s pretty irrelevant. Peter in the original movies had to deal with being exposed but handled it differently. If the movie focused more of the negative side of Peter’s friends being punished for his identity like threats or immediate danger that’s fine but the entire movie literally happened over a college acceptation letter. All of the Spider-Men have been exposed in the past but the fact that everybody ended up forgetting him in general makes his revenge irrelevant. Yes it played a part in the overall movie but Peter got into this mess because of w

Those events remain a lasting effort in his life and his life only. Not only does this not make any sense like MJ was still wearing the necklace he gave her and still had her injuries from the fight (where her memories replaced with new ones? Then that makes it more than wiping their memories and more or less brain washing everybody) but none of the people apart it can ever remember, so yes in the perception of everybody else beyond Peter— it was useless.

Obviously you’re a stan of these movies but the ending was horrible and was not a good way to end Tom Holland’s run. And it’s just random stuff that doesn’t make any sense like how all of the Peter’s were magically able to come up with a cure for all of the villains in a few hours. You know a movie is questionable when the writers have to go on tirades explaining it to the viewers. And then said all of the questions and details will probably be answered in another movie. They couldn’t even clean up the ending of the story in one movie and instead gave the burden to another potential movie.

Wasn't meant to be condescending.

Sure, call me a Stan.. You probably missed how critical I've been of several recent titles, like BlackWidow (which lets be honest, sucks). I've also made several criticisms of this movie on the previous two pages. So 'obviously', I'm a Stan.. >.>

I'll be the first to criticize poor writing, but you're trying to critically rationalize magic. That's the point I'm trying to make.

It can be possible to rationalize working with a superhero that wasn't willing to pull off the mask. For example, as far as I know Peter managed to keep his identity secret to BlackCat during the animated cartoon while they did work together extensively in the 3rd or 4th season.

Doctor Strange gets furious with Peter because of that exact reason. If Peter simply called first, the entire spell could've been avoided. Peter in the Raimi-movies was never exposed on a global scale. Only a few people on the subway saw his face and a few enemies before they died. That's clearly a different scenario to being exposed on national breaking news.. his face and specifically name being everywhere.

I don't understand how you think this only affects Peter. SPOILER AHEAD........ Aunt May is still dead in the end and wouldn't be if it weren't for the spell. So clearly, if Mysterio hadn't exposed Peter's identity, then Peter wouldn't have gone to Doctor Strange, then that spell wouldn't have brought back Green Goblin and then Green Goblin wouldn't have killed Aunt May. I also think that the movie made it clear that it wasn't just about Peter's letter - but for the fact that his work as Spiderman nuked MJ and Ned's chances as well.

With regards to the memories, yeah, I'm guessing these were subplanted.

Lastly, Tom's run as Spiderman isn't done. Producer Amy Pascal has made it clear that she wants a second trilogy with him.

As for another spoiler:

All three of the Peter's are all science-geeks. DocOck, Electro were 'saved' by implementing Stark-tech, which Tom's SM is familiar with. Lizard was cured by Andrew's SM in short time because he did it before. That leaves Sandman and GreenGoblin - and I'll be fair, I forgot the exact way they made the cures there. And if it isn't clear, then yeah, that's a weak point. Reverse engineering the Goblin-poison doesn't make sense unless they had dna. And Sandman, I got nothing.. >.>

What did you mean with burdening the next movie with this ending? From what I saw and interpreted it as, was Peter is living alone in New York and rebuilding his life while still being Spiderman, but without the Stark-tech. So from the next movie onwards, he's just Spiderman and not 'StarkBoy' as he was called by fans during the release of HomeComing. Which in my eyes is a pretty nice way to set up a new story-arc outside the HighSchool-setting.

 

[Ishiftyounot]

Eternals is now out on Disney+ in case anyone didn't know! I hadn't gone to watch it in cinemas because I was happy to wait for it to come out on Disney+ (same with Shang Chi), whilst Spider-Man: No Way Home wasn't likely to come out on any streaming service until the end of the year so I prioritised seeing that in a theatre. Means I'm now up-to-date on all MCU content aside from Falcon & The Winter Soldier which I'll probably get to once I've caught up with the live-action Star Wars shows and season two of The Witcher.

Anyway, my thoughts on Eternals are that I really liked it, thought the cast was pretty great and whilst I do have some issues with how things went I am generally excited to see these guys again in future projects! It's the worst MCU movie this year (unless you count Venom 2 as part of that) but that's mainly because I thought Shang Chi and Spider-Man: NWH were absolutely incredible and both are in my top 5 Marvel movies and not because it was bad? I liked the aesthetics of both the powers of the Eternals (the aura and lighting of their powers is so pretty) and the general environment, I felt that the cast did actually work well together and that their disagreements and issues towards one another were pretty well justified? Seeing Eternals having different opinions regarding their mission and their feelings towards humanity was pretty cool, especially with characters like Phastos whose views developed over time? I'm not sure who my favourite characters are, because I liked them all. Thena/Gilgamesh are super cute together so maybe them, but I also really liked Druig and Kingo so... toughie. The ending was decent and the main "villain" was quite compelling because of what I said previously, although I am still a bit confused about the whole Arishem/Sersi bit at the end? But that's fair. Also both credits scenes were done so well, like I was surprised about the mid-credits scene because I didn't hate it? Harry Styles as Starfox is actually something I can get behind now I've seen it.

What didn't I like... there were too many characters, which is a shame because I did genuinely like them all (except Sprite, and Ajak but that's mainly because she doesn't do a ton compared to everyone else) and I don't think you could really cut down the cast too much? Ideally we'd have had a little Disney+ miniseries about each Eternal like how Haunting of Hill House did its thing - each episode focuses on a particular character but over time, and each episode gives you something new and you can slowly piece together how each character feels about one another and about the scenarios they find themselves in. You could also shove either the Deviant or the Ikaris-betrayal plot-thread in there so the other has room to breathe and be focused on a bit more coherently, plus it might actually help some characters display their interactions? Sersi/Ikaris as a pairing was not great, and yeah I get that they're essentially robots who are learning to have human feelings and such? But Gilgamesh/Thena and Makkari/Druig is RIGHT THERE and even with less screen time I can support that so much more. Also Dane Whitman - why did he suddenly become irrelevant until the end? Kit Harrington was actually really good in this and I would've loved to have seen him tag along! But again, Disney+ show fleshing them out a bit more before the movie might have been really good.

 

[Locormus]

Eternals is now out on Disney+ in case anyone didn't know! I hadn't gone to watch it in cinemas because I was happy to wait for it to come out on Disney+ (same with Shang Chi), whilst Spider-Man: No Way Home wasn't likely to come out on any streaming service until the end of the year so I prioritised seeing that in a theatre. Means I'm now up-to-date on all MCU content aside from Falcon & The Winter Soldier which I'll probably get to once I've caught up with the live-action Star Wars shows and season two of The Witcher.

Anyway, my thoughts on Eternals are that I really liked it, thought the cast was pretty great and whilst I do have some issues with how things went I am generally excited to see these guys again in future projects! It's the worst MCU movie this year (unless you count Venom 2 as part of that) but that's mainly because I thought Shang Chi and Spider-Man: NWH were absolutely incredible and both are in my top 5 Marvel movies and not because it was bad? I liked the aesthetics of both the powers of the Eternals (the aura and lighting of their powers is so pretty) and the general environment, I felt that the cast did actually work well together and that their disagreements and issues towards one another were pretty well justified? Seeing Eternals having different opinions regarding their mission and their feelings towards humanity was pretty cool, especially with characters like Phastos whose views developed over time? I'm not sure who my favourite characters are, because I liked them all. Thena/Gilgamesh are super cute together so maybe them, but I also really liked Druig and Kingo so... toughie. The ending was decent and the main "villain" was quite compelling because of what I said previously, although I am still a bit confused about the whole Arishem/Sersi bit at the end? But that's fair. Also both credits scenes were done so well, like I was surprised about the mid-credits scene because I didn't hate it? Harry Styles as Starfox is actually something I can get behind now I've seen it.

What didn't I like... there were too many characters, which is a shame because I did genuinely like them all (except Sprite, and Ajak but that's mainly because she doesn't do a ton compared to everyone else) and I don't think you could really cut down the cast too much? Ideally we'd have had a little Disney+ miniseries about each Eternal like how Haunting of Hill House did its thing - each episode focuses on a particular character but over time, and each episode gives you something new and you can slowly piece together how each character feels about one another and about the scenarios they find themselves in. You could also shove either the Deviant or the Ikaris-betrayal plot-thread in there so the other has room to breathe and be focused on a bit more coherently, plus it might actually help some characters display their interactions? Sersi/Ikaris as a pairing was not great, and yeah I get that they're essentially robots who are learning to have human feelings and such? But Gilgamesh/Thena and Makkari/Druig is RIGHT THERE and even with less screen time I can support that so much more. Also Dane Whitman - why did he suddenly become irrelevant until the end? Kit Harrington was actually really good in this and I would've loved to have seen him tag along! But again, Disney+ show fleshing them out a bit more before the movie might have been really good.

Good review!

It seems you've forgotten BlackWidow. My 2021 ranking would be:
1. Spiderman:NWH
2. ShangChi
3. Eternals
Big gap..
4. Venom2:LtbC
5. BlackWidow

With Eternals it seems as if they're setting the characters up backwards with some motivations only becoming clear on a rewatch, but that's part of the fun imo.

There were several shorts on Youtube about the several characters, but they weren't more then short biography's.

Dane pre-EbonyBlade was clearly a non-factor in the grand scope of this movie. I expect him to be relevant in Blade, Moon-Knight or Eternals 2 - and maybe even Thor4 as the Ebony Blade has a tie to its main villain iirc. Like maybe Natalie Portman has a seen with Kit Harington (Dane's a scholar just like Jane Foster) before the plot kicks off into space.

There were some issues with the movie, but with 10 Eternals the runtime naturally ramped up to a too lengthy movie, but it would be rushed otherwise.. the groups been cut down to six or seven, (or eight).. so any sequel will have less characters to deal with (hopefully). Ajak and Gilgamesh are dead, Sprite is a human kid, Ikaris might still be alive based on Richard Madden's stuntdouble confirming a new MCU-gig. Starfox might be added to the group. So yeah, six confirmed, with Starfox and Ikaris as maybes..

Druig and Makkari were my favorites.

 

[Ishiftyounot]

It seems you've forgotten BlackWidow.

Oh no! Anyway...

I joke, but I didn't like Black Widow much and it took me two tries to actually finish it? Which is honestly a shame because it introduced my favourite character from phase 4 so far (Yelena). I also may have forgotten this movie came out in 2021... Covid is screwing up my concept of time it would seem! I wish Natasha had gotten this movie much earlier because it just feels so incredibly out-of-place amongst the rest of the MCU, although I don't hold it against the character given how Disney "politics" went back then (at least from my very minute understanding of things). I didn't find any of the characters except Yelena and Natasha particularly likeable, the villains were not really my jam and I just struggled to stay interested. That doesn't necessarily mean the movie is bad or things like the characterisation was "wrong", just that it wasn't really my thing! Seems we have the same movie ranking for 2021 - I would also put Venom 2 above Black Widow despite how awful the plot was!

I also expect to see Dane Whitman appear in Blade and maybe Moon Knight; the former is pretty much a given since Blade was in that end-credits scene and I think Dane would act as a good anchor to the MCU as a whole for Moon Knight, which I hear is going to be quite separate from the main goings-on? Would also set up a potential Midnight Sons movie or Disney+ show - Moon Knight isn't typically part of that team in the comics but the MCU could definitely do its own thing! Ghost Rider has allegedly been cast already with Norman Reedus retweeting a lot of fan-art of him as the character recently..., Dracula may appear in Moon Knight, Werewolf by Night is out this Halloween season potentially, Blade + Black Knight seem like good picks for the team, hopefully with some more female cast members too? Agatha Harkness? I don't know comics at all to tell you who else to suggest. I do like that Thor 4 idea though, here's to hoping they go with it?

I stand by Eternals benefitting from a Disney+ series before their movie to showcase what each member can do, stick the Deviant plotline in there and display some team disagreements before the movie showcases the gang getting back together over Ajak's death and focusing on why they split up and what it means to be an Eternal in the MCU. That would've been cool! But we didn't get it, so who knows how Eternals 2 will go. Sersi rescue mission with Thena / Druig / Makkari / Phastos / Starfox & Pip the Troll? I'd be down with that. Ikaris might be in Doctor Strange 2 based on some rumours floating about, but they sounded so ridiculous I didn't actually believe them. Now you say his stunt double has almost confirmed a second appearance? Intriguing...

 

[Zoruagible]

Eternals will always suck, Dark World at least has Loki to make it watchable and entertainable. And Black Widow has it's flaws(Mostly in that of the villains being forgettable) but it introduced Yelena and Red Guardian. Eternals has NOTHING going for it, boring plot, unlikeable characters(And actors too, the ones that called critics/haters 'bigots' anyways. I can't stand actors who resort to that cause they can't stomach criticism, the movie didn't suck because it was 'woke' it sucked because it SUCKED!) and outright forgettable too! You know it's sad when Scott's ex-con buddies and Peter's classmates are more memorable than MAIN characters! I sure hope they don't waste a What If... on this one
Blade was the only thing about it that made me smile, well other than the fact the endless bore of a film was over lmao

Anyways March 30th will be fun, Moon Knight incoming!

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Eternals will always suck, Dark World at least has Loki to make it watchable and entertainable. And Black Widow has it's flaws(Mostly in that of the villains being forgettable) but it introduced Yelena and Red Guardian. Eternals has NOTHING going for it, boring plot, unlikeable characters(And actors too, the ones that called critics/haters 'bigots' anyways. I can't stand actors who resort to that cause they can't stomach criticism, the movie didn't suck because it was 'woke' it sucked because it SUCKED!) and outright forgettable too! You know it's sad when Scott's ex-con buddies and Peter's classmates are more memorable than MAIN characters! I sure hope they don't waste a What If... on this one
Blade was the only thing about it that made me smile, well other than the fact the endless bore of a film was over lmao

Anyways March 30th will be fun, Moon Knight incoming!

I almost walked out the theater seeing Captain Marvel,apparently she was the true first avenger not Steve Rogers and Nick Fury lost an eye from a damn cat.This and Dark World are the worst ones I've seen in the MCU I'll probably never watch Captain Marvel ever again.

Eternals was boring at times but tolerated it,I thought Angelina Jolie was the biggest stand out.Black Widow was aight but the villain was very bland.Shang-Chi was a 7.5/10 really liked the villain Xu Wenwu and the motives that he had.If you paid attention early on in the film you could see a poster of Kung Fu Hustle on Shang-Chi's wall.The final fight gave me Dragon Ball vibes.His sister was a straight bada**.

 

[Zoruagible]

If that truly was Professor X in the trailer then we better see Toby's Spider-Man again, it's a Sam Raimi film!

"When you break the rules you're a hero, when I do I'm a villain" lol Wanda please, you may have accidentally blew up a building and killed people but you knowingly possessed an entire town and got away with it! I swear this better not wind up being a "Females are treated inferior to men" crap cause that certainly isn't the case, people are right to hate/fear her after Westview. I love Wanda but I don't like that she didn't get punished for it

 

[Blue Saturday]

I'm going to be absolutely stoked if Tom Cruise appears as, "The Superior Iron-Man" because I absolutely have been enamored with that variant as of lately. The idea of a truly morally bankrupt and evil Iron Man with Tom Cruise playing the role like he was before and coming full circle is sick asf.

 

[Litleonid]

Hearing that voice again....Its truly him! We're getting Sir Patrick Stewart as Professor X again! There was so much to unpack, but knowing we'll see Professor X again is so hype.

 

[Locormus]

I'm going to be absolutely stoked if Tom Cruise appears as, "The Superior Iron-Man" because I absolutely have been enamored with that variant as of lately. The idea of a truly morally bankrupt and evil Iron Man with Tom Cruise playing the role like he was before and coming full circle is sick asf.

I'm hearing so many people take a dump on this idea, saying that casting him as Iron Man would ruin RDJ's legacy and that they'll quit the MCU - without knowing that this would be as much a variant as the female Loki from that show.. and that casting Tom Cruise as a unlikable, despicable version would be.. well fitting.