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Marvel Universe Discussion Thread - **SPOILER WARNING** (movies, shows, etc.)

Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
You are not. I am going to watch it because, like you, I am a loyal Marvel fan, but I do not see Loki as a character that warrants his own series. But, If the MCU manages to astonish me with this the way I was content with The Falcon and The Winter Soldier's finale, then I will later readact my comment. I just feel that Loki, as a character, is dependent of Thor.

Is he though?

In a way, Thor/Loki reminds me of Japanese plays where you have the straight guy and the dumbass. In which Loki is the dumbass that provides the story with forwards momentum. On the other hand, in many ways Thor is the dumbass in this situation because he's such a dimwit half of the time.

That being said, I don't think Loki needs Thor. I honestly think Thor needs Loki, but not the other way around.

Here's why:
- Thor in Age of Ultron: Boring.
- Thor in Infinity War? Best moments were with Loki at the beginning and when coming back to avenge Thanos in Wakanda. The scenes with the Guardians are funny because of Chris Pratt reacting to the change in atmosphere.
- Thor in Endgame? Boring, but a good depiction of depression.

Without Loki, Thor is just a strong ally. He's one of my favorite characters because of his story-arc, but he simply doesn't work as well without Loki. Thor needs Loki to give him a sense of direction.

Loki doesn't need Thor because he sets everybody offbalance. Just look at his interactions with RDJ and Jeff Goldblum.

Maybe I'm defending this too hard. In any case, it's less then three weeks away now and then we'll see how he'll do. :)
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
Loki can definitely carry his own show and deserves to, I just wish it was the real Loki. Them killing him and bringing back in a younger version feels cheap, especially since they did that stunt with Gamora. (I swear Dr. Strange 2 better bring back Quicksilver seeing how Vision and Gamora are back, he deserved time to shine! They both had theirs, I feel bad for the actor whenever people demand the X-Men one be the canon one. Avengers' Quicksilver didn't even get a chance! )
 

Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
Loki can definitely carry his own show and deserves to, I just wish it was the real Loki. Them killing him and bringing back in a younger version feels cheap, especially since they did that stunt with Gamora. (I swear Dr. Strange 2 better bring back Quicksilver seeing how Vision and Gamora are back, he deserved time to shine! They both had theirs, I feel bad for the actor whenever people demand the X-Men one be the canon one. Avengers' Quicksilver didn't even get a chance! )

It would feel cheap though to bring characters back the entire time. The Infinity Stones are gone in the universe now. So I'm fine with how they brought back Gamora and Loki was literally the only time they could.

*Is the Tesseract/Space-stone gone if Loki brings it with him to the current timeline though? In any case, he needs to fix the imbalance it has caused to that timeline he took it from (which I guess is what this Loki-series will build towards). That being said, I'm not sure if he will end up staying in the current post-Endgame timeline (if he even ever visits it).

Also, wouldn't there be another imbalance in that timeline since Gamora is gone while the other Guardians are not? But I guess since the Snap never happened there I guess the endresult is sort of the same (the threat of Thanos has been removed from both timelines). Except that that timeline doesn't have a Nebula anymore and the current timeline has a Gamora. Peter will have never met Gamora as well, so maybe no Guardians in that timeline. Oh and will not have old man cap as early as 2025 and Tony will keep on living in that timeline. So quite different for quite some characters. But that's a whole different timeline to worry about..

Vision is a droid. It's kind of wonky how they did it because the WandaVision 'Vision' only existed in the Hex, but I can suspend disbelief and accept that 'chaos magic' did the trick long enough to allow a passing of what's essentially just data to go from a Hex'd up Vision into a blank canvas 'real'-Vision.
 

Storm the Lycanroc

Oshawott Squad
So the trailer for Eternals released a few days ago and I have no idea who any of these characters are. My biggest worry is that it has so many each character wont get proper screentime. But that's just my speculation and we'll have to see how the film does upon release.

I'm eagerly waiting for more details on Spider-Man: No Way Home. If Doctor Octopus is really the one from Spider-Man 2 (2004) I wanna see how this ties into the multiverse and Dr. Strange's role in the film. Granted each of the Tom Holland films has had a mentor figure for him: Tony Stark (Homecoming) and Nick Fury (Far From Home). So it makes sense Dr. Strange will fulfill that role in No Way Home.
 

Dragalge

"Orange" Magical Girl

Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
So the trailer for Eternals released a few days ago and I have no idea who any of these characters are. My biggest worry is that it has so many each character wont get proper screentime. But that's just my speculation and we'll have to see how the film does upon release.

I'm eagerly waiting for more details on Spider-Man: No Way Home. If Doctor Octopus is really the one from Spider-Man 2 (2004) I wanna see how this ties into the multiverse and Dr. Strange's role in the film. Granted each of the Tom Holland films has had a mentor figure for him: Tony Stark (Homecoming) and Nick Fury (Far From Home). So it makes sense Dr. Strange will fulfill that role in No Way Home.

It's basically an ensemble-movie. Yes, some are going to have to take a backseat. There's ten Eternals and Kit Harington's character as well. And probably a badguys (the Deviants). What they kind of need to do is like what they did with Infinity War: break-up the squad and focus on the emotional hooks as a storythread.

I only know the Eternals from what I've been fed by YouTube-outlets like NewRockstars and EmergencyAwesome, so I don't know who allies with who in the general terms, but from the trailer I can tell the following:

1. Druig seems like he's not really singing the same tune as the other Eternals.
2. Sersi, Ikaris are a couple, but with Kit Harington's Dane Whitman it becomes a love-triangle. Sersi is described by Feige as the lead.
3. Thena and Gilgamesh are partners in exile from the other Eternals.

So I assume these 3 'groups' will have to overcome some inter-Eternal conflict.
4. Kingo, Sprite: I think that Kingo might have some conflict with Druig (one likes attention the other opposes the thought) and I think Sprite will be the one trying to glue everyone together again.
5. Phastos, Makkari: I may be wrong, but these seem to have the least amount of story connected to them and feel like very basic types of characters: the fast one, the tech-guy. I'm not saying they can't be important, but I don't see them influencing the story much. Maybe one or two critical moments, but that's about it.
6. Ajak: It's Selma Hayek. It's the spiritual leader of the group, so I guess it could be in a similar capacity like the Ancient One in DoctorStrange. I can see her being important, but the story isn't going to revolve around her all that much.

Basically this:
- Eternals arrive on Earth. Druig brings up to Ajak that they're interfering too much. This leads to conflict within the group. And they all go their own ways.
- Druig does his own thing in seclusion, Sersi and Ikaris have their thing, Thena and Gilgamesh have their own thing, Kingo becomes a Bollywood-star. Phastos influence tech-companies, Sprite remains relatively close to Ajak. I don't know what Makkari does.
- Ajak gets a memo from the Celestials that something is about to go down. Gets Sprite to get the 'band back together'.
- This then basically becomes a kind of Guardians of the Galaxy-road movie.
- Druig isn't having any of it though.
- Generic plot ensues, maybe Druig allies with Deviants (like Loki and the Chitauri).

I could be wrong though.

Get ready for Kraven the Hunter! ...in a not-MCU movie


Which instantly kills my buzz for a Kraven-movie. Wish we could've gotten an actor that wasn't already in the MCU before (in a visible role), I mean Gemma Chan was covered in blue and almost inrecognizable compared to Minerva.
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
lol I knew the villain would be another Loki once they pointed out the devil picture. I bet it's the female Loki considering they didn't show the antagonist's face

Honestly I have no interest in these Sony films that feature Spider-Man villians but dont have Spider-Man himself in them.
He's literally my number one favorite hero but I don't care about his villains getting a movie lol
It's like Kraven debuting in Black Panther first like the director wanted, no thank you. Let Kraven debut in Peter's movie and THEN have him appear in Wakanda, don't give Peter sloppy seconds of somebody else's foe. That is a problem Miles had before the current run actually bothered to make him his own rogues gallery!

Why do I care about Venom if Spider-Man didn't set him up? And why does he look like THAT if Spidey didn't bond with it? Why do I care about Carnage if I don't get to see Peter and Eddie setting their differences aside to kick Carnage's butt?
Kraven and Mysterio have been on my list for well over a decade, I always wanted to seem them fight PETER. I got Mysterio thankfully but I don't wanna see Kraven chasing after some nobody lol

Morbius too, man it's cool that he gets to appear in a movie but why a solo outing? lol
I'm glad they canned Silver Sable and Black Cat's, if you wanna give a female led movie do Silk! If they want to make separate movies at least do something interesting like Silk, Spider-Gwen/Ghost Spider or 2099. I'd like to see Silk in a proper Spider-Man film(And love interest cause 'MJ' is BORING! Hope she gets the Gwen treatment, Gwen didn't deserve that) but she could at least carry one film. Can't even say they're just trying to appeal to casuals cause Mobius' only role was in the 90's cartoon and then a very brief arc in the Ultimate cartoon, Kraven and Venom are in everything pretty much
 

Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
Edit:

So..

We've seen four episodes of Loki and nobody has bothered to write a post about it..
- And it isn't perfect, but isn't all that bad either.
We've also had an epic new Shang-Chi-trailer.. and nobody has bothered to talk about it..
BlackWidow reviews are coming in, but nobody is talking about it..

Is anybody going to see BlackWidow in theatres? I know I am. :p

Honestly I have no interest in these Sony films that feature Spider-Man villians but dont have Spider-Man himself in them.

I can understand that, but the Venom-movie was at least pretty decent. It's just a shame that the SpiderVerse-characters have a very small chance of ever appearing in the main MCU.

I'm honestly still looking forward to Venom II and Morbius. I never had as much interest in Kraven as a kid and thought he'd fit better in the MCU with a Wakanda-storyline with the new BP and Storm. And with ATJ playing him, it's pretty much confirmed he'll never walk into the MCU.

I mean there's a difference between playing a sidekick to the main villain covered in blue facepaint and then playing a lead character in an ensemble-movie, but with your natural skin complexion - and being Quicksilver in an Avengers-movie, that has an heroic death, and then playing an iconic villain. Same with Oscar Isaac and MoonKnight. Yes he played Apocalyps, but he was covered in prosthetics (and the FoxMen-Verse is pretty much dead anyway). The only weird thing there is that MoonKnight also has Egyptian roots.
 
Last edited:

Nyter

Island Challenger
Edit:

So..

We've seen four episodes of Loki and nobody has bothered to write a post about it..
- And it isn't perfect, but isn't all that bad either.
We've also had an epic new Shang-Chi-trailer.. and nobody has bothered to talk about it..
BlackWidow reviews are coming in, but nobody is talking about it..

Is anybody going to see BlackWidow in theatres? I know I am. :p
- I saw the new Shang-Chi and The Legend of the Ten Rings trailer. I really really am digging the visuals and I hope they do it justice. I have never really been knowledgeable of Shang-Chi in the comics but I really value cultural representation and find this will do for the Asian Community as Black Panther did for the African Community in having portrayed a superhero one can relate to ethnically.

- I will actually be ordering Black Widow on Disney Plus Premier Access. I usually never order anything on Premier Access and usually the movies are out within 3 months of release on Disney Plus itself, but I am a major Marvel fan and am still holding out that we will have some Endgame post-event of what will happen to Black Widow within the movie (perhaps end credits scene?). Similar to what was done in Captain Marvel movie where the whole movie was what occurred in the 90s and the end credits scene showed how she enters the Infinity War-Endgame events.

- Again... I stated before Loki to me isn't a character I found interesting to have his own movie or series. But, Loki the series itself is very interesting. Funny because I still stand by my statement as Loki really does not give me that high peak interest in the whole series and some of his character seems off (like how he reacted when what occurred with Mobius happened in episode. 4... I mean he JUST met the guy). What makes the series very cool to me is the entire Cinematic adaptation of the Time Variamce Authority and the Time-Keepers. I love fact checking cinematic adaptations from what was portrayed in comics and seeing how well (or sometimes not well) things were done. The mid-credits scene for ep. 4 was definitely a brow-raiser for me and if they continue to head in this direction where we will be met with surprise cameos (again ep. 4) or flashbacks that interject well with the series, I will be pleased with the end-result of the whole series. I think, in the end, the series is trying too hard to make Loki a hero when he in fact has done well as a dastardly villain.
I can understand that, but the Venom-movie was at least pretty decent. It's just a shame that the SpiderVerse-characters have a very small chance of ever appearing in the main MCU.

I'm honestly still looking forward to Venom II and Morbius. I never had as much interest in Kraven as a kid and thought he'd fit better in the MCU with a Wakanda-storyline with the new BP and Storm. And with ATJ playing him, it's pretty much confirmed he'll never walk into the MCU.

I mean there's a difference between playing a sidekick to the main villain covered in blue facepaint and then playing a lead character in an ensemble-movie, but with your natural skin complexion - and being Quicksilver in an Avengers-movie, that has an heroic death, and then playing an iconic villain. Same with Oscar Isaac and MoonKnight. Yes he played Apocalyps, but he was covered in prosthetics (and the FoxMen-Verse is pretty much dead anyway). The only weird thing there is that MoonKnight also has Egyptian roots.
Yeah I find that Marvel will not make very obvious recasting unless the appearances show some type of unrecognizable features between the role of the same actors... let's take a look at some of Sony/Fox/MCU and same actor with different roles Marvel movies/series...

Alfre Woodard > Black Mariah on Luke Cage & Mariah Sharpe in Captain America: Civil War

Gemma Chan > Doctor Minerva on Captain America & Sersi on Eternals

Chris Evans > Human Torch on Fantastic Four & Captain America on Avengers

Michael B Jordan > Human Torch on Fantastic Four [reboot] & Killmonger in Black Panther

And I'm not even gonna go there with Evan Peters though...
 

Monster Guy

Fairy type Trainer
I still haven’t watched Loki or Falcon and the Winter Soldier. I’ll get on that eventually. In the meantime, Black Widow next week.
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
I still haven’t watched Loki or Falcon and the Winter Soldier. I’ll get on that eventually. In the meantime, Black Widow next week.
You should definitely watch Loki, each ending has you hooked on what happens next! It may not be THE Loki but they still make you care for him

I can't wait for this week's episode
 

nel3

Crimson Dragon
saw the Venom 2 trailer, that symbiote is such a slob and the line the store owner/cashier saying "hello Venom" cracked me up. that movie looks good.
 

WishIhadaManafi5

To Boldly Go Where No One Has Gone Before.
Staff member
Moderator
saw the Venom 2 trailer, that symbiote is such a slob and the line the store owner/cashier saying "hello Venom" cracked me up. that movie looks good.

Same here. I'm so hyped for the movie. It looks like it'll be good.
 

nel3

Crimson Dragon
Same here. I'm so hyped for the movie. It looks like it'll be good.
im not the biggest fanboy of marvel series but there are some series that i do like more. the more recent spiderman series is not one i like, i like the previous peter parker actors than the newest one. i always liked the Venom carnage parts of the series. maybe they will have a movie that has Lasher in it also.

dont get me started on the Zack snyder series, his visual effects=plot thought process is dumb.
 

Nyter

Island Challenger
So I was reading the following article by Thomas Bacon on ScreenRant

It's Time To Accept Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Isn't MCU Canon​

The first episode of Loki proves Marvel Studios will never reference Agents of SHIELD or be constrained by it - but the show still matters regardless.

It's time to accept Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is not canon to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. When Marvel Television launched Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. in 2013, the show was positioned as the MCU's official tie-in TV series. Unfortunately, it soon became clear the connections would only ever work one way; the TV series would follow the lead of the films, but the movies would never reference it in turn. Joss Whedon even passed on using Agent Phil Coulson in Avengers: Age of Ultron. "As far as I'm concerned, in this movie, Coulson's dead," he explained at the time. "If you come back in the sequel and say Coulson's alive, it's like putting f***ing John Gielgud in the sequel to 'Arthur.' It mattered that he's gone. It's a different world now. And you have to run with that." The relationship between Marvel Studios and Marvel Television became even more strained after a corporate restructuring in 2015 that separated Marvel Studios from the rest of Marvel Entertainment.

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. managed to continue tying into the films regardless, sometimes on thematic levels rather than in terms of plot points, and there's a sense in which Thanos himself was the villain of season 5. When ABC unexpectedly renewed the show for another two seasons, it caused something of a continuity nightmare as Marvel Television had absolutely no idea what the film studio had planned for the aftermath of the Snap. There's simply no way to reconcile the timeline of seasons 6 and 7 with the events of Avengers: Infinity War and Avengers: Endgame. For all that's the case, though, fans of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. have desperately tried to figure out how things can fit.

But the last few months appear to have settled the issue. Marvel and Disney set up an option to view the MCU in chronological order on Disney+ - and the new timeline subtly broke Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. WandaVision featured a completely different design for a book of dark magic called the Darkhold from the one featured in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., and now Loki has followed Joss Whedon's lead in avoiding referencing Coulson's resurrection. However warmly Kevin Feige may speak of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., it's clear the films and subsequent Disney+ series never intend to reference it, and the studio will not be constrained by it in any way. For all intents and purposes, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and, by extension, the rest of Marvel Television's productions, are not canon.

Though Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. may not be canon, the Multiverse introduced in Loki provides a way to make it fit. Viewers who want to enjoy the series because of its relationship to the rest of the MCU can simply presume it takes place in a branched timeline, one in which Coulson was resurrected and things worked out in a different way, one in which Thanos' Snap never happened because of changes made earlier in the timeline.

But even that isn't truly necessary. The debate over Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s canonicity has always been driven by a mistaken assumption, that the series' status in relation to the rest of the MCU is what makes it worth watching. It's easy to understand why that error has slipped in, because the connectivity was at the center of its marketing back when it launched. But over the course of its seven seasons, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. blazed its own trail and developed its own rich mythology, embracing Inhumans, a new Ghost Rider, and even its own model of time travel that was more consistent than Avengers: Endgame. The connectivity is not what makes this show worth the rewatch, it's the ever-improving quality of its writing, and the growing skills of its actors and crew throughout the seven seasons. Canon does not dictate quality, as Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. proves.

So if you bothered reading all this... what is your take on this?

I think "Agents of SHIELD" (along with "Agent Carter", and "Inhumans") was planned way before Disney+ and the MCU spin-offs using actual Avengers characters was ever even in brainstorm phase. Once that happened, "Agents of SHIELD" got kicked to the backburner especially after Season 5 wrapped up. Disney+ was going to be the Mecca of it all. I am curious to see if any of the MCU films make a reference to series such as WandaVision, etc.

I refuse to believe "Agents of SHIELD" is not Canon. I would rather believe they are part of a branched timeline explained in the "Loki" series.

And don't even get me started on the Marvel/Netflix Street Level hero shows (i.e. Daredevil, Jessica Jones, etc.)
 

Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
You should definitely watch Loki, each ending has you hooked on what happens next! It may not be THE Loki but they still make you care for him

I can't wait for this week's episode

Wait, why isn't it the Loki? I mean it's the Loki we start out with and get to know through the first Thor-movie and Avengers - and doesn't get the development he does through Thor2, Ragnarok and Infinity War, but it's the same Loki, with the same backstory and same motivations.

And honestly, all Thor and Ragnarok did was break down the facade that was always there. And Loki gets caught up on all his future endeavors in the first episode. He knows what's going to happen those events have still made an impact on him - even if he physically wasn't there..

So I was reading the following article by Thomas Bacon on ScreenRant



So if you bothered reading all this... what is your take on this?

I think "Agents of SHIELD" (along with "Agent Carter", and "Inhumans") was planned way before Disney+ and the MCU spin-offs using actual Avengers characters was ever even in brainstorm phase. Once that happened, "Agents of SHIELD" got kicked to the backburner especially after Season 5 wrapped up. Disney+ was going to be the Mecca of it all. I am curious to see if any of the MCU films make a reference to series such as WandaVision, etc.

I refuse to believe "Agents of SHIELD" is not Canon. I would rather believe they are part of a branched timeline explained in the "Loki" series.

And don't even get me started on the Marvel/Netflix Street Level hero shows (i.e. Daredevil, Jessica Jones, etc.)

Had to point this one out: "If you come back in the sequel and say Coulson's alive, it's like putting f***ing John Gielgud in the sequel to 'Arthur."

John Gielgud was in the sequel to 'Arthur'. Granted, it was a vision and he wasn't alive... But I think that's the point: his death mattered. -.-

If you have to do mental gymnatics and assumptions to believe something is canon, it probably isn't. Either way, I don't care. I tried to watch AoS and didn't make it past episode 2. I see it as the relic of the past.

The Marvel/Netflix-shows are still not confirmed non-canon iirc. There's a chance/rumor that Matt will appear in SM:NWH. If he is canon, than by extension the rest of the Defenders will be.
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
The Thanos Helicopter was in today's episode lol
So I was reading the following article by Thomas Bacon on ScreenRant



So if you bothered reading all this... what is your take on this?

I think "Agents of SHIELD" (along with "Agent Carter", and "Inhumans") was planned way before Disney+ and the MCU spin-offs using actual Avengers characters was ever even in brainstorm phase. Once that happened, "Agents of SHIELD" got kicked to the backburner especially after Season 5 wrapped up. Disney+ was going to be the Mecca of it all. I am curious to see if any of the MCU films make a reference to series such as WandaVision, etc.

I refuse to believe "Agents of SHIELD" is not Canon. I would rather believe they are part of a branched timeline explained in the "Loki" series.

And don't even get me started on the Marvel/Netflix Street Level hero shows (i.e. Daredevil, Jessica Jones, etc.)
That will just continue going on until we get Quake and Daredevil in the MCU proper
I'm sure "Inhumans" is getting pruned considering how it sucked, meaning it'll be a different Blackbolt/etc. But Agents of SHIELD lasted for years and had a following. From what I gather the people who say 'it's not canon' didn't watch past season 1 or just hate the show. I'm hoping we'll see some of the characters as part of SWORD later on
 

Nyter

Island Challenger
Either way, I don't care. I tried to watch AoS and didn't make it past episode 2. I see it as the relic of the past.
Omg... I know the first few episodes were very run-of-the-mill but I would like to recommend you to try it once more. Once you get to the part of Season 1 when Hydra comes in, it gets really good.
 
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