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Marvel Universe Discussion Thread - **SPOILER WARNING** (movies, shows, etc.)

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
So if you bothered reading all this... what is your take on this?

ScreenRant is garbage, it should be noted. Publishing clickbait, paper-thin rumors, and opinion pieces like they're news does not make a trustworthy website. Do yourself a favor and stop reading it.

With that out of the way, if we take canon by its basest meaning, in this case being "it will matter to the MCU going forward," it's not wrong. The ABC and Netflix shows were produced by a division of Marvel that no longer exists, in no small part because it wasn't quite resulting in the interconnected properties Marvel Studios wanted. The Disney+ shows don't have that issue. They didn't matter even when they were current and they don't matter any more so with Marvel Television and its chief architect no longer in those positions. The AoS crew would routinely talk about how low on the totem pole they were in what characters and stories they were and weren't permitted to use, and how their shooting schedule made it difficult to impossible to tie into the ongoing MCU films as the series went on. By the latter two or three seasons, even they had to admit they weren't "really" in the MCU anymore so much as they were in a theoretical offshoot of it.

Love and appreciate the shows for what they were, but they're off in their own little corner, peripherally deriving from the MCU but never filtering back into it, and with the shows over and Marvel Television defunct (largely so that future Marvel TV shows can be produced by Feige and Marvel Studios proper), they're unlikely to ever factor in.
 

Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
Omg... I know the first few episodes were very run-of-the-mill but I would like to recommend you to try it once more. Once you get to the part of Season 1 when Hydra comes in, it gets really good.

No. I don't want to go back and watch it. There's no point and there's no time in my life for me to watch a show that is never going to go anywhere. From what I've read, basically any connection to the MCU it had got cancelled early on and they just went on trying to keep it together. If that's their approach it isn't worth my time and it should've gotten cancelled a lot earlier by the powers that be.
 

1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
No. I don't want to go back and watch it. There's no point and there's no time in my life for me to watch a show that is never going to go anywhere. From what I've read, basically any connection to the MCU it had got cancelled early on and they just went on trying to keep it together. If that's their approach it isn't worth my time and it should've gotten cancelled a lot earlier by the powers that be.

While the disconnections to the MCU are disappointing, I do recommend you watch some of the fight scene compilations on youtube specifically about Daisy(Skye) and May. Seriously these two women kicked all the ass on the show and deserve your eyes. I think Marvel would be crazy to erase specifically these two ladies as they were everything on the show.
 

Monster Guy

Fairy type Trainer
I liked Black Widow, but now I need to catch up on Falcon and Winter Soldier and Loki.

But why do so many people have a problem with female Taskmaster? I’m not attached to the comic character, and never heard of them before this movie? Are they that popular?
 

Nyter

Island Challenger
Black Widow was so worth the 29.99 I paid for to get it in Disney+ Premier Access. This was a top notch movie!!! I loved it.

So to whoever wants to speak on the end credits scene...

I am guessing that scene with Yelena and Valentina pointing out Clint will be the transition into what Hawkeye the series is about, correct?
 

BCVM22

Well-Known Member
I am guessing that scene with Yelena and Valentina pointing out Clint will be the transition into what Hawkeye the series is about, correct?

I don't think "about," as in I don't think it's going to be the focus of the entire series, but it definitely sets up part of it.
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
And just like that Sylvie lost any likeability she had,
dooming the universe for her selfish desire
 

Litleonid

Well-Known Member
I KNEW IT! All this build up and it paid off in a huge way! Kang the Conqueror is FINALLY here! Sylvie killing him just unleashed the madness, and now we have an even more deadly Kang awaiting, just as Kang promised. WOW the finale of Loki paid off in a huge way. Sylvie just unleashed hell and now we know what Doctor Strange has to deal with.
 

Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
As a community, I'm glad we're spoiler-tagging atm! But, could we at least make clear what content we are spoiler-tagging? Between Black Widow and Loki, things just popped off again. :D

Wow! What an ending to Loki! This basically reaffirms my stance towards AoS and the Disney+ shows. You can probably still watch the MCU without watching the Disney+ shows (I don't see how, but one can probably manage), but you'll be doing yourself a disfavour when you don't.

I mean really! Spoiler-free reviews!
WandaVision: Easy A.
- The story was great.
- The visuals were okay (though the practical effects in the earlier episodes were amazing).
- The character progression was superb.
- Ralph Bohner is the only reason why this wasn't A+, aside from that every choice was sincerely effective to tell Wanda's story.

Falcon&theWinterSoldier: Easy B+/A-
- Mostly due to them tempering with the plot in post which led to some inconsistencies in the story-arcs.
- Visuals were amazing, especially the aerial scenes with Sam.
- Character pogression again superb and handled with care, both for Sam, Bucky, heck even Walker was captivating.
- Sharon's future arc looks promising, but her being who she is in the show and her choices during the show hold a narrative flaw.

Loki: Again an easy A, maybe even A+
- Character progression was amazing.
- Plot was slow at first (had me nodding off during Ep1 and Ep2 (might be on me, I shouldn't start watching shows at 11pm), but then picked up really nicely.
- Without spoiling episode 6: You basically know about the possibilities during the shown, but episode 6 just... Mindblown.

I'm going to see Black Widow in theatres tomorrow, unless they change Covid-restrictions overnight.. I'm glad to see people are spoiler-tagging! :)

Can't wait for tomorrow to come, but all these shows. Darn.. I really, really can't wait to see Doctor Strange 2 and Antman3, but we've got so many great spectacles to get to in between! Black Widow, Shang-Chi, Spidey, Doctor Strange2, Thor4, BP2, Antman3, Guardians3.. All the Disney+ shows they've got stacked: Hawkeye, Moon-Knight, Secret Invasion, IronHeart+Armor Wars.

I know I didn't mention Eternals and the Marvels.. I've got hype for at least Eternals, but yeah.. still little to go for with the Marvels unfortunately. If there's two movies that I fear that could end up flopping, it would be these two.
 
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Nyter

Island Challenger
So... again, I feel that Loki, the character, was somewhat different in this series than the Loki in the MCU movies, considering it is the variant of what happened in Endgame which meant the progression that occurred after that (Thor: Dark World, Thor: Ragnarok, and Avengers: Infinity War) did not take place (even though Mobius showed him on a TV screen). I felt that Loki was made to be a hero too drastically especially with all of a sudden finding friendship in Mobius, falling for Sylvie, and
disregarding his selfish desires.

Loki the show... FCKN Superb! It is definitely the show that helps propel what is to come in the MCU.

And as Locormus said, I feel you CAN watch the MCU without watching the Disney+ series, but the context behind them would not be as deep.

Spoiler regarding Loki
Bummed Loki did not really have an end or mid-credits scene

also Sylvie doing it up type Peter Quill a la Infinity War mode with that last act she pulled.

A friendly reminder (and I am sure I don't NEED to mention), make sure to wait all the way until the end of the rolling credits to catch end credits scenes for WandaVision, Falcon and The Winter Soldier, and Black Widow. They do a great job of showing what is to come.

Speaking of Disney+ series of the MCU:

WandaVision has been nominated for a whopping 23 Emmy awards

And Falcon and The Winter Soldier has been nominated for a total of 5 Emmy Awards.

And I am sorry for being too biased but I hope they win them all. Disney/Marvel Studios have psychologically kept me sane and safe during the pandemic and I have a lot of gratitude for that.

P.S. - I am JUST watching The Punisher Season 2 on Netflix. If it is all Canon, it is crazy how something as Cosmic as Loki is in the same universe as something as down-to-earth and dark as The Punisher is in. In my head, all MCU programs are within the Universe and it works out intricately.
 
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1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
So I watched Black Widow yesterday and I liked it although I do wish Widow had more fight scenes and was just shown to be stronger. She was thrown around a bunch in the movie so it was kind of sad to not see her being as badass as she usually is.

I liked the story of the movie, the only real downside of a character for me was the "dad" who was pretty useless, got his ass beat in the one big fight he had so meh.

Yelena was also really good for me and wouldn't mind seeing her take up the Widow mantel since she has the same training and can kick ass too.

Overall a good movie, was a little disappointed from an action standpoint especially since with Widow we expect more action but it was more of character movie so I get it.
 

Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
So I watched Black Widow yesterday and I liked it although I do wish Widow had more fight scenes and was just shown to be stronger. She was thrown around a bunch in the movie so it was kind of sad to not see her being as badass as she usually is.

I liked the story of the movie, the only real downside of a character for me was the "dad" who was pretty useless, got his ass beat in the one big fight he had so meh.

Yelena was also really good for me and wouldn't mind seeing her take up the Widow mantel since she has the same training and can kick ass too.

Overall a good movie, was a little disappointed from an action standpoint especially since with Widow we expect more action but it was more of character movie so I get it.

I kinda agree with your overall sentiment than the actual points.

First, I really liked the movie. But I had very few expectations going in. You expected action with Natasha, but she's just not IronMan/Thor/Cap/DoctorStrange.. so I didn't expect much outside of what we saw the trailer.

The dad was played David Harbour, who you might know as Hopper from Stranger Things. It's kind of ironic since he has a tragic history as a dad in that show and he's so aloof here so it's a funny dichotomy between the two roles while both being dads. Also, he was imprisoned for many years, gained weight and was pretty much out of form.. Roughing up and stalling Taskmaster was the best he could do and it worked well enough. But the 3rd act was kinda mèh.

Yelena is a scenestealer. Just about everything she did was gold.

I'd probably rate this movie as a 7.
 

1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
I kinda agree with your overall sentiment than the actual points.

First, I really liked the movie. But I had very few expectations going in. You expected action with Natasha, but she's just not IronMan/Thor/Cap/DoctorStrange.. so I didn't expect much outside of what we saw the trailer.

The dad was played David Harbour, who you might know as Hopper from Stranger Things. It's kind of ironic since he has a tragic history as a dad in that show and he's so aloof here so it's a funny dichotomy between the two roles while both being dads. Also, he was imprisoned for many years, gained weight and was pretty much out of form.. Roughing up and stalling Taskmaster was the best he could do and it worked well enough. But the 3rd act was kinda mèh.

Yelena is a scenestealer. Just about everything she did was gold.

I'd probably rate this movie as a 7.

I would agree with you if pretty much every scene with Black Widow in the MCU thus far hasn't involved her beating up multiple people lol. I just wanted her to let lose at least once. The most we got was when she was in the prison trying to free her dad, and that was pretty meh.

Honestly he just wasn't funny to me. Natasha and Yelena together were much funnier to me.
 

Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
I would agree with you if pretty much every scene with Black Widow in the MCU thus far hasn't involved her beating up multiple people lol. I just wanted her to let lose at least once. The most we got was when she was in the prison trying to free her dad, and that was pretty meh.

Honestly he just wasn't funny to me. Natasha and Yelena together were much funnier to me.

I think we have very different standards for what equates as good action. Natascha was good in fights primarily vs. goons and grunts and with vehicular action (she's particularly very good on bikes).

I don't think she ever had a A-tier fightscene that went well for her. She fought Hawkeye a couple of times, but definitely not to kill so the amount of credit she gets for that is dubious at best. She obviously got trashed by the Hulk in Avengers. She fought Bucky, but was never in a position to win, she actually fled, got shot regardless and had to be saved by Steve from a certain death. She held off Ultron, but only for a few seconds only for Cap to come in yet again. She fought the Black Order, but not alone on both occassions and she would've gotten killed if it weren't for Steve in the Scotland fight and Wanda in the Wakandan fight. She always needs to be saved. It's not even once, it's a consistent pattern with every recent fight she has. But yes, throw an unnamed goon at her and she'll definitely KO him.

So badassery from Natascha is not what I expected. Especially not against a badguy as potentially dangerous as Taskmaster.
 

Dragalge

"Orange" Magical Girl
Loki
So are they setting up Kang the Conqueror as the next Thanos i.e. being the ultimate bad guy being built up to be fought over time? That said, it was a decent final episode but as a season finale I am, admittedly, unclear on my stance on it. They could have handled the exposition a lot better at the least personally.
 

1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
I think we have very different standards for what equates as good action. Natascha was good in fights primarily vs. goons and grunts and with vehicular action (she's particularly very good on bikes).

I don't think she ever had a A-tier fightscene that went well for her. She fought Hawkeye a couple of times, but definitely not to kill so the amount of credit she gets for that is dubious at best. She obviously got trashed by the Hulk in Avengers. She fought Bucky, but was never in a position to win, she actually fled, got shot regardless and had to be saved by Steve from a certain death. She held off Ultron, but only for a few seconds only for Cap to come in yet again. She fought the Black Order, but not alone on both occassions and she would've gotten killed if it weren't for Steve in the Scotland fight and Wanda in the Wakandan fight. She always needs to be saved. It's not even once, it's a consistent pattern with every recent fight she has. But yes, throw an unnamed goon at her and she'll definitely KO him.

So badassery from Natascha is not what I expected. Especially not against a badguy as potentially dangerous as Taskmaster.

Like I said, even if it was a group of 20 goons, I just want to see her unleashed even once. That would have made the movie better for me in terms of action.

Unfortunately the movie towards the end was all about awakening so she wasn't really fighting anyone since the villain was a little ***** who couldn't defend himself if he wanted to.
 

Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
Loki
So are they setting up Kang the Conqueror as the next Thanos i.e. being the ultimate bad guy being built up to be fought over time? That said, it was a decent final episode but as a season finale I am, admittedly, unclear on my stance on it. They could have handled the exposition a lot better at the least personally.

Yes. Kang was set up here. Kang has many different versions. He Who Remains Kang appears to imply there being far more villainous versions that will start trying to claim dominion over our timeline.

There's so many interesting links that have potential now:
- #1. Kang's real name is Nathaniel Richards, a descendant of Mr.Fantastic himself. We're getting a F4 movie.
- #2. One Nathaniel gets a visit from a future Kang, refuses his vision and becomes Iron Lad (spiritual succesor to Iron Man) and iirc part of the Young Avengers for which we keep on getting introduced to members during this phase.
- #3. A&W: Quantumania. We saw a city like structure in the quantum realm which is probably Cronopolis, a city where Kang rules. Also, Kang is confirmed for this movie.
- #4. MoonKnight gets his powers from a Egyptian Deity and there's version where Kang was an Egyptian pharaoh called Ramatut (sp).
- #5. Loki is set to appear in DoctorStrange2, so seems like a good shoe-in there, even if Kang probably isn't going to be the villain in that movie.
- #6. There's literally a movie called Eternals coming up. The link to a figure that controls time should be obvious.
 

Nyter

Island Challenger
I am going to wait until August 1st to start talking about both Loki and Black Widow without any spoiler tags as it should leave ample amount of time for many to catch up on.

Do you think Thanos will be mentioned in Eternals as that is where his origin story comes from in the comics?
 

Locormus

Can we please get the older, old forum back?
I am going to wait until August 1st to start talking about both Loki and Black Widow without any spoiler tags as it should leave ample amount of time for many to catch up on.

Do you think Thanos will be mentioned in Eternals as that is where his origin story comes from in the comics?

That's a good stretch left, but this thread does have a spoiler warning, but I guess we can manage. In any case, my posts won't go into much detail anyway (except for Loki).

I think Thanos might get a shout-out, but this movie really wants to get past that moment as fast as they can. I mean it's the one thing people have been holding against this movie the entire time: Thanos whiping out 50% of living creatures wasn't an incentive?

In fact, could've some of the Eternals been snapped?

Like I said, even if it was a group of 20 goons, I just want to see her unleashed even once. That would have made the movie better for me in terms of action.

Unfortunately the movie towards the end was all about awakening so she wasn't really fighting anyone since the villain was a little ***** who couldn't defend himself if he wanted to.

But she did eventually fight against roughly 20 Black Widows - and she lost until she got saved by Yelena. Again, this fits the pattern I mentioned above. I stated that I (personally) had little expectations based on all those previous A-tier fights. What little expectations of Natasha selling a big fight against a big bad were confirmed by the end, never was I shocked by Natasha's performance as a heroic lead. Yes, comparing her to Steve, Tony, Steven and Thor is unfair - the movie even acknowledges this: "The God from outerspace probably doesn't need Ibuprofen.". However, she is the lead and thus will get compared regardless and thus she needs to do something to 'wow' the spectators and singlehandedly fighting five grunts at a time just isn't going to cut it at this point. You and I want her to be awesome and show us awesome stuff, that gets her out of that mindset of her not having any notable feats. She finally gets this chance to curb our (my, I guess) expectations and she loses and gets kicked while on the ground by the people she intends to save - until she gets saved herself by the character introduced to replace her. I simply wasn't surprised, because this kept on happening to her.

Heck, her saving Yelena from the fall by sacrificing herself was way too similar to her sacrificing herself so that Clint could live on Vormir, so there was no knew emotional punch there either - that and knowing the overused trailer scene would still come didn't really help at all. The final fight against Taskmaster was a sham and ended up in the situation 'can I get this gas up in her face'. She says 'Lets go' as if she intends to get down to the wire, but you already know that she knows it's Antonia and that she will want to rectify her mistake from Budapest. Heck, "BarFighters", a YouTube-channel that does superhero fights with edited in Healthbars didn't even have either below 50% before the fight just ended. Not saying they're a creditable source or anything, but the fight will go down as one of the least entertaining ones ever.

This was pretty much the final chance to break away from this pattern they had with Natasha and they didn't take it and we're left with the original female Avenger being a great spy, driver and acrobat - but honestly lousy at fighting. I don't want to hate on this movie, and as I said in the grand scheme of things, this was probably a 7 (maybe drops down once we get back to a steady stream of entries to compare).

Scarlett did her own character dirty in her first and only standalone feature as Natasha and she was even the executive producer of the damn feature (insert 'In Russia...-meme here). Yelena basically unironically saved this movie from being a flat 5.


Lol, normally we don't disagree to this extent, but I guess I'm just disappointed the more I think about things. This was her final chance after all - unless we get more RussianFamily-shenanigans during the 5 years between Infinity War and Endgame.
 
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