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Master Class is in Session! (915)

RickHoenn

Banned
Since we're getting into this topic gonna throw my 2 cents in. AG (BF included)>=DP>OS (Kanto + OI)>BW=XY>>OS (Johto)

Come on? Johto league alone crushes BW and XY/XYZ has definitely been better than BW in terms of pace and developmen and still the the TF plot, 8th gym and league are left, so it'll even better by the end...

IMO it goes like this: AG (Hoenn+BF) > DP = OS (Kanto+OI+Johto) > XY/XYZ (so far) >>>>> BW (all of its seasons, not even episode N [the only arc I liked in the entire BW saga] saves this mess)
 

Pokegirl Fan~

Liko>>>>>Ash
How did we even get onto this whole which season is better thing anyways? Lol
Anyways I loved Serena's performance the most out of everyone else. I felt that Shunas performance was more repetitive to be completely honest.
 

phanpycross

God-king
How did we even get onto this whole which season is better thing anyways? Lol
Anyways I loved Serena's performance the most out of everyone else. I felt that Shunas performance was more repetitive to be completely honest.
plebs being insecure about the things they like; same as always it seems.
 

Platinum fan.

RetiredPokemonMaster
So ole Platinum fan finally watched this episode and well I saw good things and bad things. First I want address something. Thank you writers for the cameos. Not because I was begging to see any of these characters again, but one of my biggest criticisms for Showcases is that nobody from Kalos was even watching these things and thus made them feel pointless. They proved me wrong with the cameos with people all over Kalos watching the Master Class. Thank you for making Master Class feel a little more important. I honestly don't understand why people were complaining about the cameos. What because half these people didn't talk much with Serena? Maybe they watch Master Class and just happen to see her there and got excited. It's not her characters fault this region was so Ash heavy. The Ash content/focus was insane in Kalos, nobody really talked with anybody on the main cast but him. Sycamore also gave Serena her Fennekin and Pokedex. Of course he should support her. I don't get the criticism here.

The actual episode. It just felt like a regular Showcase with Aria present. Serena and Shauna are really the only ones I like and that's a problem. Two problems named Nene and Miette. What was the point of Nene? I honestly just feel sorry for her and Miette at this point. They got dealt such a unfair hand and never got time to shine or show why they belong as Serena's rivals. Given how she was treated I actually wanted Nene to win, but she had no chance apparently. And Miette should have been the second most important rival but she's losing early and Jessie of all people is moving forward. Jessie who has ZERO story or impact on Serena's storyline. This is DP all over again when Ursula should have ranked higher but instead goes down early and Jessie is then put in a embarrassing joke of a match not worthy of a tournament. The rivals in Kalos were bad. Every last one of them. I feel so bad for Miette and Nene. Shauna's going down next and her rivalry with Serena wasn't explored enough as it should have been.

The good is unlike most I like Serena's performances. I don't care how repetitive they are. It focuses on Serena and her Pokemon which is the only reason I am here. So that alone makes me excited for these episodes. Yeah the good's kinda short but this goal wasn't paced well and Serena like her rivals, deserved a better story with better pacing. Still even though she likely won't win I'll be excited to see how Serena's story ends and to see where she and her Pokemon go from there.
 
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K.N.

Well-Known Member
Cameos were fun. I also liked that Serena had that phone call with her mom which was something I felt was missing a few times in the past. It's nice to hear what the characters are thinking.

I think my biggest problem with Tripokalons is that there's often not even an attempt at explaining why certain contestants win out over others. It should be even more important for Tripokalons over Battles because at least the latter has more clearly defined rules on how someone wins. When I think back to some of the Pokemon Contests, my favorite ones were usually the ones that gave some kind of in-universe explanation for why someone won. Jessie won a contest with Chimecho once because the judges liked her ridiculous avant garde performance, Dawn lost once because Swift completely covered Ambipom so she totally missed the point of what she's supposed to be doing, etc. They've done that a few times with Tripokalons, of course- Serena won once because of her experience with Rhyhorn, and of course every time she lost it was because her team made some kind of blatant error in their performance. But when everything goes fine it seems like whoever is chosen to win a given performance round feels completely arbitrary, and has a very "she won because the plot requires it" quality to it. There were many Tripokalons where I felt someone gave a far more creative performance than Serena did and yet she still won by a large margin.

I know the counter to this complaint would probably be something like "it's clearly a popularity contest even in-universe", but even if I concede it conceivably "makes sense" it doesn't make it interesting, or halfway decent writing for that matter. I still think Tripokalons would've really benefited had they aped the Game Contests more by having the whole Cool/Tough/Beauty/Cute/Smart thing.
 

Blue Saturday

Unfurl your Blessed Wings!
Anyway, I watched this episode and for the most part what I have to say about it isn't particularly loving (shocker of the century, welp) and I'm going to try to keep it brief by putting each point side by side because I ain't trying to leave an essay. [WARNING: RANTING TOWARD END]

The Good:

+Direct confrontation Free performing is a huge improvement over the regular format of performing. I actually liked how each girl got an introduction in the spotlight with their siggy putting on a "mini" performance. It was actually a nice way of condensing these things down a bit and was far more interesting as we saw with Musashi / Zuruggu-kid / Nene that they can directly interfere with each other's routines. If they had done this from the beginning Tripokalons probably wouldn't have gotten so much flak from me.

+Serena's Pokemon, honestly my favorite thing about her character. Nymphia and Yancham are great Pokemon, I like them. Tairenar is just...bland, seriously her personality pretty much can be summed as "Female Pokemon ©" does female things. But as a team they are aesthetically-pleasing together and I like all of those Pokemon a lot as species on their own so that helps.

+Musashi, FAVORITE THING ABOUT THE EPISODE. Never did I think I would end up enjoying Musashi so much but maaaaan. I like her and her Pumpjin a lot, despite their crack-tier bonding in its evolution episode they work well together and have nice moments together. They both really come off as queens in their own rights, I liked all the power put into the introduction Shadow Ball and how she just is standing their looking fab with her 'mon. That final Shadow Ball she used to the point the smoke from the explosion was enough to swallow Cal and Nene as well as their 'mons was rad. Those facial expressions were God-tier as well. Props to her, she deserved to win that round.

+That Zuruggu is the most adorable thing ever! I want 10,000 OF THEM! That little outfit and its movements, I always like it when trainers do their best to match their Pokemon's appearance too. The animation on that Focus Blast and Brick Break too, made me so nostalgic for Satoshi's Zuruggu. #Zuruggu4Life Almost makes me wanna bust out my 3DS and raise a flawless IV, EV-trained, Shiny one for fun.

+I always enjoy that BGM they play during certain performances, it started when Millefeui started her intro.

+Millefeui's performance, easily the best performance of the whole series. Cotton Spore gave off the impression of something sugar-y and sweet floating in the wind and it was nice seeing Millefeui and Peroream dancing in the spotlight like that and moving in step with each other. Really made them seem like a good team. It managed to be nice and unique, overall it held true to the magazine's summary of saying she puts on a sweet and fluffy performance.

+Corni+Lucario and Numelgon cameos make me a happy fan.

The Bad:

- This is one of the things I dislike mainly about TriPokalons to the MAX. There's no way of gagging who's doing better than who because these competitions are so subjective and hard to follow in that regard. The XY/Z writers just keep having someone like Musashi or Millefeui do some crazy, cool and actually entertaining and fun crap to watch then have Serena do some same faced fire routine with her running around a little because main characters in XY/Z MUST. WIN. AT. EVERYTHING. None of Serena's performances have wowed me at all this whole series, they more or less seem very similar.

- Nene why do you even exist other than to act a foil to the far more pretty, competent, slimmer, blond-haired blue-eyed, Serena. I only have gotten the impression that Nene was there to be a clown to make Serena look better in-comparison. She lost everything and given Tripokalons seem more based on the humans than the Pokemon, I'm getting the impression she never had a snowball's chance in hell against someone like Serena because she doesn't fit an exact ideal of beauty. Which is honestly just a crying shame considering she's Pokemon's first overweight female rival, compare to Kenyan who was actually presented as just as competent and lovable a character and rival as any of the other slender characters in BW. But nope, you had Nene getting ridiculed and looking like an idiot in that quiz round, having the most ridiculous make-up / outfit, and her performance canonically being presented as unflattering, "Heartbreaking~" indeed. Really lacking in agency for me.

- You know how I was giving this, "confrontational Free Performance" format praise before. I guess that wasn't the case fully...? You only saw direct confrontation and aggression from Musashi and Pumpjin. None of the others girls seemed to be screwing around with each other's performances. So it might have just been a "Musashi" thing but still no one objected, Pierre nor Yashio so it clearly wasn't cheating. Why they didn't stick with that in Millefeui's trio's time to shine, I don't know.

- Serena's penultimate last episode of her TriPokalons arc. and not for one second did I think they were trying to play it or the character up with as much prominence or love as the League or Grand Festival. Felt rushed, not just the Master Class but these comps and several aspects of the rivals / Pokemon / Serena herself. The Tripokalons were also wish-washy as crap, Serena attracts Sihorn with her appearance but how in the world would Nene, Millefeui or Sana had won them over if they participated, the answer is they couldn't. The hive-mind crowd being a somewhat forced way to pick a winner. Serena outclassing every rival she comes across, even "local master" Amelia like she was a pro and Amelia was a rookie. Really just goes to show the amount of thought and devotion that went into this goal. :v) Contest were made for everyone, Gym matches were made for everyone, Type Mastering was made for everyone. Tripokalons were made for Serena because she's gotten favored narratively inside and outside of them in a laundry list of different ways. I don't want to call her one myself, but I can definitely see how many bill her as a Mary Sue.

- Same exact Pokemon, same exact performances for the most part, same exact outfits. It's especially annoying Pokemon wise because I wanted to see Millefeui's male Nyaonix again, given she based her Tripokalon outfit off of it. Heck even a new capture for Sana would have been nice as her Flabebe is bland and Fushigisou seemed to have lost its personality post-Summer Camp arc. I wonder why they gave Nene a Gothimu only to have it appear one time and go into seclusion, Serena is the only one who was seen with a full three Pokemon outfit and I figured more girls would do that. It gives off the impression Serena is only close to her Pokemon as a team, which is not true. Sana loved and was always affectionate with her starter in the Summer Camp arc. but now it's just bland, they don't interact and she defaults to it for everything. You managed to show Shuu being personal with Absol or Nozomi being affectionate with Nyarmar before and after they were done with their comps, would a little characterization kill anyone...? Pokemon are characters too. Though an exception was at least found in Musashi, Nyasu, Pumpjin and Sonansu.

- The cameos were nice but made no sense, Corni and Serena never seemed to interact or seem close. Nor did I get the impression Numelgon was ever invested in her. But I suppose Serena needed someone to cheer for her, otherwise she'd only have Grace, Yayakoma and Sihorn were already a stretch on their own. But really those cameos just highlighted how empty Serena has been in-terms of meeting even the most casual people and having meaningful interactions with them, Amelia was little more than a needless character as fodder to lose to her despite all the hype she got for example. Compare this to Iris who was close with Shobu and had her moments with her at the Dragon Village or Hikari meeting, Yuri, the woman who was her mother's childhood rival. I still am going to be very peeved if the Platane labs people automatically vote for Serena just cause she's Serena, Sana got her Fushingdane from the labs first, met them first and already had her life and goal as a performer set in stone before Serena even knew who Elle-san, TriPokalons or Yashio were.

The Ugly:

> Millefeui's character dies with a whimper, she largely seemed to only exist for shipping though if you want me to be real with ya. She has a nice design, a nice Pokemon, put on a nice performance but her character seemed like it only existed for Amourshipping. Nothing else drove this rivalry, so yeah she was a "love" rival. Which is a shame since I like her design a lot and her Pokemon, unlike most of the fanbase I never quite found it to be all that great. Her running up to Serena and talking about Satoshi, does not a good rivalry make in my mind. It's really sad this rivalry was jump started and had its fire centralized around a male character. Compare this to Iris/Langely and Hikari/Urara who were rivals just because of well POKEMON.

What a shame because like I said, I liked that performance, her team and her design a lot but the presentation and what her character is about is not something I can support. Which is a shame because as a character on her own, she seems like someone I really really really would have liked and gotten invested in under different circumstances? But only liking her for her design would be super tough for me and a bit boring, I always said I prefer it when a character is more than just a pretty face and have more beneath their skins. Millefeui, overall, unfortunately was very two-dimensional and lacking in agency up until mood whiplash moe crying at the Master Class.

> The Fanservice was stupidly annoying. The shiny skin, the red cheeks, the extremely aesthetic shiny eyes, the leg shots, the moe-styled crying. Heck, I'm suppose to love Boutiqueshipping but the amount of touchy-ness between the girls honestly seemed like the way you see many girls in otaku-pandering anime getting close to one another for gaze sake. A red-cheeked and shiny-spotted Sana just going up and jumping and hugging a red-cheeked Serena and nuzzling her, felt like something right out of freaking Madoka. Playing around with the whole, "female characters are in such a bad position and fragile and cute and powerless" stereotype with those crying scenes.

From a character standpoint, I can understand Nene crying. But I never got the impression Millefeui gave a crap about Tripokalons, she just randomly showed up as a performer but never showed an enjoyment, training or engrossment in them like Sana or Nene. It just seemed like an excuse to have her look anime aesthetically-pleasing while in distress. It was just super gross, no wonder fans call these events "Waifu Wars." It just amazes me how XY can have Manon cry like a normal person and look ugly, sound really upset and whine in the Mega Evolution specials when she gets yelled at by Alan but then they went to the trouble of making these girls look "attractive" (uwck) while they are crying.

Honestly one of the reasons I'm so apprehensive about Iris making a cameo in XY and don't really want it. I loved Iris's faces, actions and movements in BW! to death. Most of the time the faces she made were full of snark, straightforwardness and frankness. The only times I remember her looking more "adorable" than usual was in Akihiro Tamagawa episodes (but everyone looks adorable in his episodes and animation, it's more so just his style being showcased than any ulterior motive) and the movies at times. Her facial expressions make her character for me, seeing so many hard or whimsical expressions conveyed on a female character that well.

I don't care if many in the fandom exclude the character from other PokeGirls for not being cute or attractive (having a darker skin complexion + being very covered up probably didn't help matters either) enough, I loved that about her character and presentation in BW. She pretty much was never used for fanservice and I miss that badly. Again the only XY female to avoid this completely imo is Manon, very covered up and treated well by the animators. Though that might have more to do with her being more coded as a "kid" character than a "female" character. Even my fave in XY, Corni, got (unfortunate) fanservice shots at times. At this point I'm expecting Manon at some point in the regular anime, I'm really hoping she won't be marketed in the same vein as the Performers at least.
 
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Soniman

Break the Limit
I guess the serena/shauna moment can be seen as pandering, but I still thought it was very adorable and sweet and added some sort of minor passion/investment to their rivalry that I thought was lacking (a rivalry thats lacking in XY, shocker I know) and it only lasts one second anyway. I just saw it as a little cute moment to show that Shauna is invested in Serena's sucess, not really an attempt to attract sweaty otakus, but im not the writer so idk the actual intent
 
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Afrodisiac

break up w yo gf, im bored
Well, I really liked this. Gotta eat my own words because it was beautifully done, from the Serena+rivals little interactions (any bit is appreciated) to the level of animation, which is outstanding to say the least. The cameos were cute, though people are overrating Goodra's 3 seconds of fame here.
 

Pikachu979

Sinnoh Champion
This episode was good though i wish they had gotten new clothes. also i wish Nene and Miette got farther its sad that the XY rivals lose all the time oh well. I am glad Grace came to watch like May and Dawn's moms did especially since she hasnt been watching the last few showcases.
 

DS0308

<--- Actually me
Because my iPod isn't cooperating...

@Blue Saturday - The cameos came about because it was a nationally televised event. They weren't necessarily watching it because they knew Serena was participating, it's entirely plausible they were watching for personal interest, finding out about her participation as a result. That's not a stretch at all. Serena's personal interactions and friendships really stem (and are somewhat limitied to) Showcases themselves, so all those people were there, just competing along side her. Also I don't think it was ever said Shauna got her Bulbasaur before Serena did Fennekin, nor do I think that gives someone precedence to vote a certain way. The general assumption with the voting is that the rest of population besides main cast (for obvious reasons) will generally vote with an open-mind (obviously Amelia's super fame was an exception but the fact Serena won basically proves it). It's not like we even know who the non-venue audience vote for anyway.
 

Musashi~

Fiery Destroyer! <3
I really liked the episode.I loved the animation. Jessie's performance was enjoyable as well.But I did feel bad for Miette,specially when she criedcried.Overall the episode was fun to watch and I hope the next one will also be this good or better. :3
 

Wrayne25

Member
thought bout having a discussion sometime bout this episode and the next episode sometime on youtube tonight if yall interested (PM ME if you want in it!). my thoughts of episode 19 were that im happy that Serena and Shauna made it but Jessie? why Jessie? in my opinion it should be Serena vs Shauna vs Miette. I mean we know who's going to win that anyways but it would make more common sense. Shauna and Miette being the 2 rivals that changed Serena's life around. Nene is good but she hasn't had the impact that Shauna and Miette have had on Serena's life. Jessie I just don't get it at all. sorry Team Rocket fans but that's just my op. grade of episode though? A- solid animations, Goodra, all the flashbacks, all the returns just a great episode and can't wait for the most hyped episode in the last 5 years next week :)
 

siopaulo

Active Member
Subs came out so I finally watched this ep. Serena is my favorite pokegirl of the series and I really like her but I have to say that her performances haven't really impressed me. I know it's pokemon and that the main characters always have to win but at least with Dawn and May, they backed up their wins with respectable contest performances. While Serena's aren't "bad" per se, I wouldn't say she deserves all these landslide victories she's been getting. I thought Amelia's performance was better than hers from the third tripokalon, and that Miette's performance was the best of this episode and that she should've won that round, despite my bias towards Serena. Felt really bad seeing her cry afterwards.
 

Pokegirl0102

Well-Known Member
I can't believe im going to say this but i actually loved an episode featuring the pokemon showcase, they should have used this format for all of them since it was much better. Even though i was rooting for Jessie i couldn't help but shed a tear for Nene when she loss, she is such a mistreated character.
 

Darkness Angel

Lover of Fate-Chan
So we finally arrived at these eppys. I believe we were let down by not seeing Shauna's performances at all, Serena's just seemed like more of the same maybe it would have been nice to see. Her try something else or barrow a pokemon from one of her friends and use them, I'll even say that Miette performance was better than hers.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
The dubbing wasn't too bad, a lot of the dialogue was kept in tact and the actors, while not as enthusiastic (I prefer how damn manic James' cheering sounds in Japanese), still did alright here, but the changed music just doesn't fit AT ALL. You'd think in episodes with choreography and dancing they'd at least try to make a match or, you know, just use the original soundtrack.

I agree skipping a lot of the sequences was a shame (I wanted to see what Meowth did for his solo performance). A great moment for Jessie and Gourgeist though.

'Shadooow ballll FULLLLL POWWWWEEERRRRRR!!!!' XD.
 
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