May 6th: PM2019 109 - VS Kibana! A Fight with Masters Eight on the Line!!

[ShadowForce720]

Ash's Goodra was a strange beast with a lot of potential that it evolved every single focus episode it got and even cheated the weather evolution part while remaining with no losses until it returned and could barely deal with a Slurpuff because it literally got no training whatsoever.

Only grating thing about that battle was how everyone treated Sawyer like this very dangerous trainer but not Ash just because Ash had a brain fart that let Sawyer win. Even Diantha vouched for Sawyer, despite getting cornered by Ash herself.

In all honesty the reason Ash’s Goodra tied with Slurpuff was because it was to reliant on Bide.


Honestly while Bide was initially good it became more of a crunch for Goodra once it had become a Goodra.

I mean looking at Ash’s Goodra’s move set against Slurpuff this is how it breaks down:


Ash’s Goodra’s move set against Slurpuff:

Dragon Pulse does no damage to Slurpuff due to Slurpuff’s Fairy typing.

Rain Dance doesn’t do any damage and is only really there because of its ability to heal itself from status conditions in the rain through the ability Hydration.

Ice Beam was completely countered by Slurpuff’s Flamethrower.

Bide requires Goodra to take damage basically giving Slurpuff free hits.


I mean heck if anything if they just replaced Bide with a Water type move like Aqua Tail, Water Pulse, or Muddy Water to allow it to take further advantage of Rain Dance it’s move set and performance would improve a lot.

 

[TheNewGuy]

lmao this is hardly a revolutionary concept, and one that Pokémon isn't even the best example of; Fullmetal Alchemist, one of the most beloved shonen series ever, was written entirely by a woman.

Again, I don't know why we're pretending Dragonite has a 'stellar' battle record when the only reason it even HAS it is because it barely battles. This is its first fight in ages, and it's coming back to lose. Horribly.

Dragonite is going to lose in a match where it will take likely multiple super effective attacks against the #8 ranked trainer in the world. It happens.

The italicized "horribly" is an example of why I have taken issue with you in this thread. Not only can you not be certain of that, and what is or isn't "horrible" seems to be a word you can shift the exact meaning of to suit your position, your tone is wildly exaggerated. It suggests a level of, idk, panic that I'm afraid does come off as "bizarre" like I said earlier.

 

[Eddieursa]

Quite appropiated Raihan is the victory that will allow Ash enter the Masters 8. I mean, he's a Gym Leader (a capable challenge for Ash) and the last one in the games and the hardest one.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

In all honesty the reason Ash’s Goodra tied with Slurpuff was because it was to reliant on Bide.


Honestly while Bide was initially good it became more of a crunch for Goodra once it had become a Goodra.

I mean looking at Ash’s Goodra’s move set against Slurpuff this is how it breaks down:


Ash’s Goodra’s move set against Slurpuff:

Dragon Pulse does no damage to Slurpuff due to Slurpuff’s Fairy typing.

Rain Dance doesn’t do any damage and is only really there because of its ability to heal itself from status conditions in the rain through the ability Hydration.

Ice Beam was completely countered by Slurpuff’s Flamethrower.

Bide requires Goodra to take damage basically giving Slurpuff free hits.


I mean heck if anything if they just replaced Bide with a Water type move like Aqua Tail, Water Pulse, or Muddy Water to allow it to take further advantage of Rain Dance it’s move set and performance would improve a lot.

That's worse. The story was out to make Goodra such a letdown.

 

[TheNewGuy]

Sure, let's just pretend that Dragonite, with its three wins in more than 100 episodes (out of which one Pokémon was already weakened, and the other is still questioned by some people) makes it completely immune to becoming a jobber later on. 'Bizarre stuff', as if this anime doesn't have a horrible track record with some of its Pokémon (Gengar being one of them, in fact).

Seriously, get real; there's plenty reason to be pessimistic, especially when a Pokémon's first battle in 40 episodes is a complete no-win wipe.

But your posts before that were madness. It was madness. "Dragonite is already in the jobber bucket." "Ash should never have had him in the first place! What a COLOSSAL MISTAKE."

It's one thing to be pessimistic. It's quite another to act like it has already happened and to make linguistic choices so extreme and laughable that they undercut your entire point.

The paragraph I mentioned raises the specter of a good point, though it's still relatively uncommon; but it's at odds with the tone of your other posts

 

[Feelitstill23]

Dang Sirfetch'd doesn’t exist

it had its battle in episode 104, dragonite has the least PWC battles

They are definitely having Dragonite job to sell the intensity and stakes of the match, considering he is Ash's unbeaten Ace and always is the class breaker, they are subverting expectations by having him actually go down without a win in the final class promotion match
It's a point meant to say 'Oh ****, Raihan is no joke and Ash is seriously screwed' as well as lending credence to Raihan's insane strength

find it hard to believe dragonite wouldn’t get a win? wouldn’t that gengar's role to go down first ?

 

[Rikerran]

it had its battle in episode 104, dragonite has the least PWC battles

find it hard to believe dragonite wouldn’t get a win? wouldn’t that gengar's role to go down first ?

Dragonite's pokeball is faded out in one of the preview shots.

 

[ShadowForce720]

it had its battle in episode 104, dragonite has the least PWC battles

find it hard to believe dragonite wouldn’t get a win? wouldn’t that gengar's role to go down first ?

Dragonite going down first without any wins would make Raihan seem more intimidating then Gengar taking on the role. Plus it allows them to give Gengar some time to shine.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

In all honesty the reason Ash’s Goodra tied with Slurpuff was because it was to reliant on Bide.


Honestly while Bide was initially good it became more of a crunch for Goodra once it had become a Goodra.

I mean looking at Ash’s Goodra’s move set against Slurpuff this is how it breaks down:


Ash’s Goodra’s move set against Slurpuff:

Dragon Pulse does no damage to Slurpuff due to Slurpuff’s Fairy typing.

Rain Dance doesn’t do any damage and is only really there because of its ability to heal itself from status conditions in the rain through the ability Hydration.

Ice Beam was completely countered by Slurpuff’s Flamethrower.

Bide requires Goodra to take damage basically giving Slurpuff free hits.


I mean heck if anything if they just replaced Bide with a Water type move like Aqua Tail, Water Pulse, or Muddy Water to allow it to take further advantage of Rain Dance it’s move set and performance would improve a lot.

Goodra should have had Sludge Bomb instead of Ice Beam to deal with Fairies. However, Goodra having Bide would make sense against Alain’s Charizard as there’s no gulliotine to stop it and Charizard keeps dishing super effective attacks, then the bide hits and does a lot of damage to Charizard

 

[Blood Red]

Dragonite is going to lose in a match where it will take likely multiple super effective attacks against the #8 ranked trainer in the world. It happens.

The italicized "horribly" is an example of why I have taken issue with you in this thread. Not only can you not be certain of that, and what is or isn't "horrible" seems to be a word you can shift the exact meaning of to suit your position, your tone is wildly exaggerated. It suggests a level of, idk, panic that I'm afraid does come off as "bizarre" like I said earlier.

It's going down without a single win. Considering it's only got 3 wins in 2 battles under its belt, and its immediate reappearance will be so it can get utterly wiped rather than get a single win (just so that one Pokémon can get two) is a horrible loss no matter how you slice it.

Also, idk where you're getting this 'sense of panic' from. I wish I had enough emotion for this series (outside of returnees) to feel that strongly about anything that could happen.

But your posts before that were madness. It was madness. "Dragonite is already in the jobber bucket." "Ash should never have had him in the first place! What a COLOSSAL MISTAKE."

It's one thing to be pessimistic. It's quite another to act like it has already happened and to make linguistic choices so extreme and laughable that they undercut your entire point.

The paragraph I mentioned raises the specter of a good point, though it's still relatively uncommon; but it's at odds with the tone of your other posts

I've watched enough of this show to know how jobbers are born, and this has the typical stink of that. If Gengar wasn't already the de-facto jobber of the squad, I'd already have given up entirely on Dragonite. Not to mention, I still remember not only Goodra, but Gible as well. I remember the excitement I felt both times. If Dragonite doesn't do well in this series, that'd be a third pseudo-legendary line utterly wasted on him.

Anyway, this will be my last response to this series of posts. Agree to disagree or whatever, but I'm not budging from my position till this series is over and Dragonite manages to not end up a jobber. If that doesn't happen, great; I'll be pleasantly surprised. If not, I'll just add another feather to my 'predicting the jobber' cap.

 

[mehmeh1]

Omode wrote the second best 1v1 in anime history, Greninja vs Sawyer. So yall shouldn't worry about this battle. I love how Omode has Lucario in his hands 6 years after Greninja and that both are so similar, good decision Tomiyasu.

(the best 1vs 1 is Pikachu vs Tapu Koko and I don't count Infernape v Electivire because that was 1 vs 3)

tbh even if the writing is good, if the direction or animation fumbles that would bring the battle down a lot

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

I mean, Dragonite is fighting a guy who makes a living being into dragons. He won't pull an Iris, but rather go nuts on super effective damage because Ash thought he could exploit that himself.

(Though it does make Gengar being a possible MVP look fishy because that thing sure can't endure a lot.)

 

[Yuugis Black Magician]

Misogyny is the least of the show's problems right now. I'd like competent writing in battles. Good thing is that Omode wrote the Sawyer vs Ash Kalos League battle, which besides the opening episode and a couple other things, was one of the few wholly good things about that League so there's some hope.

Misogyny is always more of a pressing issue than things like 'good writing in battles'. The latter is subjective—something I am even concerned about—the former is a damning systemic issue that we should all be concerned about trying to eradicate so as to remove misogyny from the media current and future generations consume.

lmao this is hardly a revolutionary concept, and one that Pokémon isn't even the best example of; Fullmetal Alchemist, one of the most beloved shonen series ever, was written entirely by a woman.

Again, I don't know why we're pretending Dragonite has a 'stellar' battle record when the only reason it even HAS it is because it barely battles. This is its first fight in ages, and it's coming back to lose. Horribly.

Hi there, woman here. Been in the English-speaking fandom for Japanese comics and cartoons for twenty-five years (I was even 13 when I made this account in 2004)! Allow me to retort that I enjoy Hagane no Renkinjutsushi quite a bit! Unfortunately, as I'm very sure you understand, Arakawa Hiromu is a drop in a vast ocean of content. Further more, both of her comic's animated adaptions were stewarded by men. The number of writers and directors—to say nothing of lead animators—is extremely small in the Japanese animation industry. Among the number of titles created for primarily an audience of 'boys' (which is frankly impossible to accurately quantify considering the nature of gender) is high but among that number of titles very few are created by women. Again, very few. I never argued that Omode was doing something new—I've been following production staff for my favorite Japanese cartoons for quite a number of years—I argued that I was encouraged by the decision to allow a woman (assuming Omode even identifies as a woman) the opportunity to tell a story about men and boys for an audience of boys and that it was my hope that this process continued, especially after the wonderful Pocket Monster: Sun & Moon television series had Matsui Aya as its head writer and writing numerous scripts.

 

[Power Up]

Misogyny is always more of a pressing issue than things like 'good writing in battles'. The latter is subjective—something I am even concerned about—the former is a damning systemic issue that we should all be concerned about trying to eradicate so as to remove misogyny from the media current and future generations consume.

It's not really a response to what I said. My pressing issue is wanting to watch a show with battles that contain competent writing and decent production values. I'm unsure of how the eradication of misogyny from media will address those fundamental problems in the show currently. Do you have some sort of esoteric argument that ties the two together?

 

[Observer]

Misogyny is always more of a pressing issue than things like 'good writing in battles'. The latter is subjective—something I am even concerned about—the former is a damning systemic issue that we should all be concerned about trying to eradicate so as to remove misogyny from the media current and future generations consume.



Hi there, woman here. Been in the English-speaking fandom for Japanese comics and cartoons for twenty-five years (I was even 13 when I made this account in 2004)! Allow me to retort that I enjoy Hagane no Renkinjutsushi quite a bit! Unfortunately, as I'm very sure you understand, Arakawa Hiromu is a drop in a vast ocean of content. Further more, both of her comic's animated adaptions were stewarded by men. The number of writers and directors—to say nothing of lead animators—is extremely small in the Japanese animation industry. Among the number of titles created for primarily an audience of 'boys' (which is frankly impossible to accurately quantify considering the nature of gender) is high but among that number of titles very few are created by women. Again, very few. I never argued that Omode was doing something new—I've been following production staff for my favorite Japanese cartoons for quite a number of years—I argued that I was encouraged by the decision to allow a woman (assuming Omode even identifies as a woman) the opportunity to tell a story about men and boys for an audience of boys and that it was my hope that this process continued, especially after the wonderful Pocket Monster: Sun & Moon television series had Matsui Aya as its head writer and writing numerous scripts.

My Dress Up Darling is a good series to watch and read.

 

[Jibanyan]

It's not really a response to what I said. My pressing issue is wanting to watch a show with battles that contain competent writing and decent production values. I'm unsure of how the eradication of misogyny from media will address those fundamental problems in the show currently. Do you have some sort of esoteric argument that ties the two together?

??
she just said more women should write stories about male characters

 

[Master Pikachu 11]

It's going down without a single win. Considering it's only got 3 wins in 2 battles under its belt, and its immediate reappearance will be so it can get utterly wiped rather than get a single win (just so that one Pokémon can get two) is a horrible loss no matter how you slice it.

Also, idk where you're getting this 'sense of panic' from. I wish I had enough emotion for this series (outside of returnees) to feel that strongly about anything that could happen.

I've watched enough of this show to know how jobbers are born, and this has the typical stink of that. If Gengar wasn't already the de-facto jobber of the squad, I'd already have given up entirely on Dragonite. Not to mention, I still remember not only Goodra, but Gible as well. I remember the excitement I felt both times. If Dragonite doesn't do well in this series, that'd be a third pseudo-legendary line utterly wasted on him.

Anyway, this will be my last response to this series of posts. Agree to disagree or whatever, but I'm not budging from my position till this series is over and Dragonite manages to not end up a jobber. If that doesn't happen, great; I'll be pleasantly surprised. If not, I'll just add another feather to my 'predicting the jobber' cap.

Dragonite has done way better then Goodra, Goodra only has one good win against Clemont’s Luxray while Dragonite defeated both of Korrina’s Pokémon one of them being Mega Lucario and defeated Iris’s Haxorus. It losing to the best Galar Dragon type trainer isn’t anything to be a shame of. I fully expect it to bounce back in Ash’s next battle since we see it training against possibly Paul’s Garchomp in the preview. I expect Gengar to get two wins against Raihan’s Dragons which should help get rid of it’s jobber label.

 

[Power Up]

??
she just said more women should write stories about male characters

Yeah, and I said I was unsure of how it was related to my problem with the anime? What do you not understand about that?

 

[Morax]

like the one to tell a boy's stories through the pen of a woman.

Literally fullmetal alchemist.

 

[Sham]

Yeah, and I said I was unsure of how it was related to my problem with the anime? What do you not understand about that?

Because theoretically if this user is discussing wanting more female writers than it doesn’t exactly contradict or go against wanting good writing. I don’t even fully subscribe to what this person is saying but allowing more female writers, POC writers and everything else should be welcomed.

They aren’t contradictory with each other. Now is it misogynistic if a woman doesn’t write male battles? It depends on the context and if they’re specifically being excluded from writing it because they’re a woman than yes but we don’t know the full story. Wanting more women in the room doesn’t go against your desire of wanting better writing.