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May 7th: PM2019 065 - Dragon Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!

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aipomadvanceshipper

Well-Known Member
Misty could have gotten more development but she did battle a lot in Johor even though it was against team rocket. I think what stopped her growth is because her goal didn’t have more battle options besides the fishing contest and the whirl cup. Her ace poliwhirl evolved and while it was strong it was taken less seriously so she relied on corsola. Now her main battler is gyarados and it can mega evolve and she’s a gym leader and psyduck is a strong Pokémon as well
May learned from Ash, so battle wise she is pretty good especially when she returned its like she incorporated her style and ash’s. In hoenn and kanto contest was more battle moves but also stylish. Her team was pretty good too
Dawn is also a great battler, she created the spin move and she comes up with great ideas, even though she won the Wallace cup I find she’s more of a flash style battle than how hoenn contest had them
I wanted Serena to get more battling in but showcases didn’t have that. I think she would have done well if contest was in kalos
All poke girls prove to be great battlers but it also depends on their team, goal and training. I won’t be surprised if iris is a gym leader
 

Decidueye23

Well-Known Member
What are you even talking about? It's still a Mon that can be used and belongs to Lillie, that's my entire point here.

You can't just disregard one point by saying it's BS lmao, disregarding what happened. And that's not the only way im defending Lillie. She also pushed back a Tyranitar remember? Remember her Gladion battle where she showed skills and thinking? Her Z move? Even if magearna hasn't battled yet it's still her Mon to be used. It just feels like arbitrarily rules by y'all to discredit Lillie and hype up Serena when Serena has done NOTHING in the battle department compared to Lillie who has, even if it isn't much. Oh and she also commanded Pikachu to win a battle too, again showing she has battle skills.

It's still a Mon that can battle and I don't see any reasoning for it being weak. We can't just disregard a pokemon's status imo like that

Turtonator landed one hit on it, doesn't mean it "weakened" it. It was Ultimately Lillie who took it down with her attack.

Yea one attack by turtonator is such a big deal right? Lmao. Still better then anything Serena did in terms of battling. Also the pushing back the Tyranitar thing, Z move, her battling skills having been shown, let's just disregard all that.

This is just clear bias for Serena and against the alolan girls when the rhetoric is Serena is stronger then them for some reason when she has shown no battling feats compared to the others.
Turtanator, possibly the strongest Pokemon of one of the stringest trainers in the league, whi actually has tremendous battle experience, made a super effective dragon tail against salamance. So yes it would hve weakened Salamance. Tremendously. Its like saying lycanrock did nothing against kukui, even though it did land a hit on incineroar.

Also Serena commanded Pikachu too, albeit quite well. You saw how easily umbreon broke out of Lillie's Z move right?.

Snowy was holding back Tyranitar. Dont you remember Braixen holding its own against a gallade? Or all those instances holding back against houndooms and weavile in the XYZ finale. Or when Eevee evolved and Ash and Serena won a battle.

We literally have no idea if magearna is strong or weak. We have zero knowledge of anything it does. So i cant really assume it to be strong or weak. I mean if we assume magearna can battle well, then we can also assume Serena's battle skills ahve improved tremendously because she is doing contests. So who knows. Thats hypothetical.

Look i am not saying Serena is strong. Lillie is not either. Neither of them have alot of battle experience. But Serena has a slight edge over Lillie in that department simply befause of the fact that the writers decided to make all the alolan companions participate in the league quite late and hence giving them a z-ring at the very end eith very little training.
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
Iris is looking good with the BW2 dress.

I wonder if they are indeed going the route of making her a gym leader. It'd be strange considering that episode of BW where she's shown to be not willing to take this position.
 

Almighty Zard

He has returned.
Iris is looking good with the BW2 dress.

I wonder if they are indeed going the route of making her a gym leader. It'd be strange considering that episode of BW where she's shown to be not willing to take this position.

to be fair she's had as much time to grow as her pokemon so she could've come to accept the posistion more willingly than in the past where she felt like it was forced upon her.
 

LucasMV

Well-Known Member
If Iris is actually Unova Champion now, I could see Ash losing here.
Because I assume that if she was Champion, then she'd be strong enough to get in the Master Class and face Ash again there, where he could win instead.

But to be honest, it's more likely that this will be Iris' only appearance and in that case, there's no point in Ash not winning this.
 

WaterShuriken

"I..I..Iron Tail, Pikachu."
I don't think she's the Unova Champion byt does wear that outfit for her Gym Leader matches and brought it out for her match against Ash.

I hope we at least see her Gible.
 

Illusio

No words, only rage
Since we know two of the matches, I'm guessing it'll go:
Angry Nite vs. Happy Nite (Angry)
Angry Nite vs. Dracovish (Mr. Fish)
Haxorus vs. Dracovish (either)

Not sure on the order, I just have a hunch the Nites will go first.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
Turtanator, possibly the strongest Pokemon of one of the stringest trainers in the league, whi actually has tremendous battle experience, made a super effective dragon tail against salamance. So yes it would hve weakened Salamance. Tremendously. Its like saying lycanrock did nothing against kukui, even though it did land a hit on incineroar.

Also Serena commanded Pikachu too, albeit quite well. You saw how easily umbreon broke out of Lillie's Z move right?.

Snowy was holding back Tyranitar. Dont you remember Braixen holding its own against a gallade? Or all those instances holding back against houndooms and weavile in the XYZ finale. Or when Eevee evolved and Ash and Serena won a battle.

We literally have no idea if magearna is strong or weak. We have zero knowledge of anything it does. So i cant really assume it to be strong or weak. I mean if we assume magearna can battle well, then we can also assume Serena's battle skills ahve improved tremendously because she is doing contests. So who knows. Thats hypothetical.

Look i am not saying Serena is strong. Lillie is not either. Neither of them have alot of battle experience. But Serena has a slight edge over Lillie in that department simply befause of the fact that the writers decided to make all the alolan companions participate in the league quite late and hence giving them a z-ring at the very end eith very little training.
This again feels unfair to Lillie in so many ways
Turtonator may have helped but snowy took down salamence, that still deserves some credit does it not??? Or would u attribute lycanroc defeating incineroar and not give torracat credit?
And I think Tyranitar is more of a big deal than gallade. Esp coz gallade never got defeated, the battle never ended meanwhile Tyranitar was pushed back and defeated as it ran away
Braixen held its own in the TF finale? Do you not remember Steven helping her then? Kinda disingenuous you don't include when she got help, it heavily feels like you are downplaying Lillie and hyping up Serena to me
And it isn't an assumption to say magearna can battle. It's a Mon, mons can battle. This isn't me using offscreen stuff to justify. And since it's a mythical it deserves some credit does it not? I know mythical and legendaries are not as hyped up or necessarily strong as they once were, esp mythical, but it doesn't mean their status should be disregarded entirely. It still should have some weight, should it not? And again for the ash and Serena battle, she was with Ash who did much more work than kiawe did to salamence for Lillie.
Also if I remember correctly Serena never blasted off TR on her own (I may be wrong in this), she always did it with a combo attack with other friends
Lillie got rid of them on her own in one of the early SM episodes. Of course it's TR so doesn't matter that much but still should be considered

So Umbreon tanking the Z move? That's Gladion, the league finalist Pokémon. It's powerful, not like Serena's mons. Z move still is a big factor Lillie has over Serena

So with all this, Lillie is definitely stronger than Serena for me, Serena has no feats, never shown analytical skills like Lillie did against her battle with Gladion and with Pikachu Vs her butler. Also Serena commanded Pikachu but she NEVER finished the battle. It was Ash who came back and did it, meanwhile Lillie defeated the butler on her own

So yea, Lillie > Serena when it comes to battling for me (also I'm not insulting Serena when I say she is bad at battling, she has another goal so it's okay. In case anyone thought that, I do have problems with her overall arc but as a character I like her and have been warming up to her more and more)
 

Decidueye23

Well-Known Member
This again feels unfair to Lillie in so many ways
Turtonator may have helped but snowy took down salamence, that still deserves some credit does it not??? Or would u attribute lycanroc defeating incineroar and not give torracat credit?
And I think Tyranitar is more of a big deal than gallade. Esp coz gallade never got defeated, the battle never ended meanwhile Tyranitar was pushed back and defeated as it ran away
Braixen held its own in the TF finale? Do you not remember Steven helping her then? Kinda disingenuous you don't include when she got help, it heavily feels like you are downplaying Lillie and hyping up Serena to me
And it isn't an assumption to say magearna can battle. It's a Mon, mons can battle. This isn't me using offscreen stuff to justify. And since it's a mythical it deserves some credit does it not? I know mythical and legendaries are not as hyped up or necessarily strong as they once were, esp mythical, but it doesn't mean their status should be disregarded entirely. It still should have some weight, should it not? And again for the ash and Serena battle, she was with Ash who did much more work than kiawe did to salamence for Lillie.
Also if I remember correctly Serena never blasted off TR on her own (I may be wrong in this), she always did it with a combo attack with other friends
Lillie got rid of them on her own in one of the early SM episodes. Of course it's TR so doesn't matter that much but still should be considered

So Umbreon tanking the Z move? That's Gladion, the league finalist Pokémon. It's powerful, not like Serena's mons. Z move still is a big factor Lillie has over Serena

So with all this, Lillie is definitely stronger than Serena for me, Serena has no feats, never shown analytical skills like Lillie did against her battle with Gladion and with Pikachu Vs her butler. Also Serena commanded Pikachu but she NEVER finished the battle. It was Ash who came back and did it, meanwhile Lillie defeated the butler on her own

So yea, Lillie > Serena when it comes to battling for me (also I'm not insulting Serena when I say she is bad at battling, she has another goal so it's okay. In case anyone thought that, I do have problems with her overall arc but as a character I like her and have been warming up to her more and more)
I am not saying snowy doesnt deserve credit. I am saying it cant be a measure of its strenght because in all likeliness turtanotrs damage did a lot more to the salamance.

Also i did not say Magearna Cant battle. I said we have not seen it do anything battle oriented. So we really dont know if its weak/strong to take it into account. If it was shaymin i would say it was strong, but with magearna we literally have no idea.

Also you keep talking about lillie's analyticsl thinking because of one instancr in one battle. I could say the same about Serena's battle when she used pikachu, or her battle against Aria, wherein she used Panchams Stone edge in combination with fenikken.

But something tells me you wont agree with this. So i guess lets agree to disagree lol.
 

SerGoldenhandtheJust

Deluded Dreamer
I am not saying snowy doesnt deserve credit. I am saying it cant be a measure of its strenght because in all likeliness turtanotrs damage did a lot more to the salamance.

Also i did not say Magearna Cant battle. I said we have not seen it do anything battle oriented. So we really dont know if its weak/strong to take it into account. If it was shaymin i would say it was strong, but with magearna we literally have no idea.

Also you keep talking about lillie's analyticsl thinking because of one instancr in one battle. I could say the same about Serena's battle when she used pikachu, or her battle against Aria, wherein she used Panchams Stone edge in combination with fenikken.

But something tells me you wont agree with this. So i guess lets agree to disagree lol.
Lillie showed more strategy tho, not just with Gladion but in multiple instances. Even if magearna hasn't battled, it's mythical status should atleast lend some credence to it and make up for Serena having more Pokémon because it's just one extra. Plus snowy has other feats to it too but I digress, I guess we both have differing viewpoints
Agree to disagree sounds like the best choice haha
 

Rune Knight

Well-Known Member
Part of me wants Iris to either win or tie with Ash here, here's why:

Until now the writers have been very secretive about many aspects of the series. To their credit, they have done a very good job in retaining information and making way for surprising captures and evolutions.

So far, there has been no sign of Axew, which has led many to speculate that it has indeed evolved all the way into a Haxorus.

Then there is Iris donning her Champion outfit which has led people to think that she is now the Champion of Unova. Not to claim that she is but if that is in fact the case, then I would like her to become another feet in Ash's journey to challenging Leon, and for her to be a part of the Masters Eight which I would like to be purely composed of different champions from the games. I definitely believe that her character is deserving of that.

Lance - Kanto (or Johto)
????? - Johto
Steven Stone - Hoenn
Cynthia - Sinnoh
Iris - Unova
Diantha - Kalos
Ash - Alola
Leon - Galar

I know that Lance got labelled as a member of the Elite Four but I think this could be open to change. I also think that Ash will defeat and take Raihan's place in the roster.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
What if her second dragon (probably Gabite/Garchomp or a new capture) comes out first and goes down to Ashnite?

The magazine scans kinda implied that Goh would do the Dex scanning hair gag and toss a Pokeball onto her head, which would imply that Axew is still Axew hence shutting down the Haxorus ace angle.

I kinda doubt Iris is winning here especially since they advertised the entire "Hyper Class entry on the line" angle, something similar that they last did with Korrina and the Super Class. Even if Ash somehow loses, it would mean there would be a rematch within the next 5-6 episodes (going by JN formula) which seems unlikely given what the preview has shown us (which is starkly lacking in Iris rematch hints). I feel like Iris will be a 1 time deal for now, with a chance of a second appearance down the line to cheer Ash on in the Masters 8 and maybe a reunion of all friends?

I still think that was a flashback of sorts.

I say that because the episode will have flashbacks and I feel they would address how Ash and Iris met.

On top of that the preview contradicts a repeat of what happened in best wishes since Pikachu is seen nuzzling Iris in her champion outfit in the gym which is more than likely where they meet up, it would be weird for Pikachu to nuzzle Iris in Opelucid gym if they met outside first unless Pikachu was off committing crimes and meets up with Ash at the gym.

Which means if it happens, it would have to be after the battle or if the battle doesn't happen immediately, then the intermission of meeting Iris at the gym and the battle the next day.

It also makes zero sense for her to still have Axew and haven't shown us even one present screenshot of it, especially official but non canon promotional art (I think) of Iris eating lunch with the boys and still nothing.

They said her partner is Axew so it's weird to not show it at all unless it did evolve. Keeping Axew an Axew a surprise is dumb but I get people would think they are trolling us.

On top of that she has Gible so who says that's not her hair Pokemon.
 
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