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May 7th: PM2019 065 - Dragon Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!

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Great Ball Rank Trainer
This shouldn't be a source of stress and toxicity it's an anime LOL
Unfortunately that's mostly what you'll find on these forums, especially when it comes to anything related to Goh -_-

U.N. Owen

In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
Damn this is so confusing. It's like they purposefully don't want to explain it properly.
Honestly, I'd like four episodes dedicated to the politics and structure behind the leagues at this point.


Well-Known Member
with all this debate of how one becomes a champion of a region.

I assume Ash is the Alola Champion, and not just a league winner, since the Alola region had not established a proper elite four, and the strongest trainer was Kuiki, who was considered the strongest trainer, which is essentially like the regional champ of the Alola region.

The anime is still very vague about explaining how pokemon trainers become a pokemon master, but I guess I'd assume that in order to be a pokemon master, a trainer must win 8 regional leagues and then battle and defeat an elite group of pokemon masters, not speaking of the elite four, to be given the title of being a pokemon master.

A second option to becoming a pokemon master i would imagine is that a trainer must win a league tournament, challenge and win the champion league, and then defeat the elite four and the current regional champion, which would allow a trainer the right to face the elite group of pokemon masters in order to be considered a pokemon master if the trainer can defeat them.

A third alternative option i would imagine for a trainer to become a pokemon master, besides winning 8 league tournaments, could be to become a World Champion, which I assume would give a trainer the prequistes to challenge the elite group of pokemon masters in order to attain the title of Pokemon Master. Since being a world champion puts a trainer at the highest rank of achievement, second only to the title of pokemon master, I'd assume the rank of world champion would automatically grant a trainer the right to challenge the elite group of pokemon masters to earn the title of pokemon master themselves.

These are just my speculations. I truely believe that Iris herself has become a champion, especially seeing how her current team feels far too strong to be gym leader level. Its been a while since she appeared, and i'd assume her skillls have advanced quite alot than just being considered a mere gym leader.

The way there promoting this battle with the stake of hyper class on the line, it seems heavily implied that Ash win be the victor. If not the victor the battle could end in a draw. Though I feel the former my be more likely to happen than the latter speculation.
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Lord Godwin

The Lord of Darkness


Well-Known Member
What if... Ash decides to leave dragonite with Iris for more training with dragon types or something? I know nothing indicated that so far... but just a thought

I don't know, the whole subplot is about Iris feeling Dragonite's feelings for Ash, so I'd find it weird for Dragonite to want to stay with Iris.

Blue Saturday

Unfurl your Blessed Wings!
Not arguing if Iris being champion makes sense because quite frankly at this point idrc and just happy about the news. Someone said Korrina being champion made more sense and I questioned why. Your argument falls under the assumption that all of the champions were once a Gym leader. Where does it say you have to be a GL before being champion? Are they not different roles? Where is the correlation between Iris not wanting to be a Gym leader but wanting to be a champion? That’s like saying you wouldn’t want to be a manager for a company but would like being the CEO.
About where I’m at. I won’t be arguing the semantics of it all and am stoked that she’s given her love and dues.


People acting like Iris wasn’t built up at a prodigy and encapsulates all her growth or anything about her down to pure strength confuses me in the sense she had several flashbacks demonstrating her skills. Healing Pokémon, trying to understand a Dragon-type (Crimgan’s injury compared to the Shiny ones rage), her dragon empathetic ability, her struggles with Kairyu and Doryuzu’s behaviors. Her being a champ makes sense in that regard of her naturally being shown in BW! from start to finish she had her own areas of wisdom, knowledge and had meaningful encounters with several people pushing for her future (Shirona, Ibuki, Shaga, Village Matriarch, etc.)

Her first major flashbacks shows her getting challenged by the Dragon-type gym leader of the Isshu Region to “test” her. She is given a Kibago by her village elder, her developments were not solely based around her battle talents but her actions, character, personal flaws, and past. She had the most fleshed out past of all companions sans Takeshi. I just feel like people need a benchmark to retroactively make comparisons. You know Hikari’s “sadness arc.” ended with her defeating Haruka and winning the Mukuri Cup and she “beat” Haruka and you have a quick and dirty number without nuance for example.

But were Iris’s issues with misunderstandings and empathy not a constant thing in BW that ultimately culminated to her fixing the bad blood with her own Emonga, later on managing to catch Fukamaru as well as getting a better grip on and calm down Kairyu when he goes insane fighting Ibuki (compared to his total loss of control at the tournament?)

I think people playing a number games or Satoshi v. Companion fight #384959549 are missing the nuance of the unique experiences of each characters.


certified kino coming in 2024
I think people playing a number games or Satoshi v. Companion fight #384959549 are missing the nuance of the unique experiences of each characters.
You're expecting too much from this fandom. A lot of these people have selective/inaccurate memories of BW, which really comes in handy whenever they want to complain about Iris (or stuff in general).
I think people playing a number games or Satoshi v. Companion fight #384959549 are missing the nuance of the unique experiences of each characters
Yes, very well, you are describing the character and it is not bad, but it still does not justify that She suddenly becomes a champion, it is not coherent. It didn't take long from BW to JN, Iris never beat a gym leader, Clair beat her too easily

I do not see how is justified that she can defeat an E4, I do not see how Ash would defeat a hypothetical champion with Dragonite and Dracovish who barely had battles. Iris is decent, and clearly she can win a Pokemon League, but to be a regional champion she would have to be at the level of characters like Alain, and that is far from reality, far away.
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I'm sure the writers know that, they are not that dumb and have always respected the E4 level. I think iris will possibly be a gym leader.
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