May 7th: PM2019 065 - Dragon Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!

[AuraChannelerChris]

Is it disturbing Iris and Korrina share way too many similarities.

Young little girl (with claws on a chalkboard English voice) who thinks is the **** because of her prestigious status but has the misfortune of winning when her ace doesn't obey her orders while totally losing when they're allegedly in their top form while listening to his trainer after the girl finally(?) got her **** together. Said young girl also comes back from nowhere only to help Ash - who has the Pokemon the girl is acing - rise into a brand new tier at the PWC by losing to him.

At times, I think they're rehashing the plot masqueraded under the return of a beloved(?) character to hide the real intention. Iris only needs to lose offscreen to Lance to complete the ritual requirement in full...but still.

She was considered a child prodigy and got a Gym offer based off two battles as well as a 99 winning streak.

Wait, didn't Korrina also go through a winning streak that long too.

...Oh my god, this is RICH.

 

[ibelinssj]

Just pointing this out but it was never confirmed that Bea’s Grapploct was the Pokémon she used to beat Korrina’s Mega Lucario.

If anything the fact that they went out of their way to hide the identity of the Pokémon that beat Korrina’s Mega Lucario in the flashback would heavily suggest that Grapploct wasn’t the Pokémon Bea used to beat Korrina’s Mega Lucario and instead a different Pokémon was responsible for Mega Lucario’s defeat.

Because at the end of the day no matter how you try to argue it there is literally no reason to hide the identity of Bea’s Pokémon that beat Korrina’s Mega Lucario if it was just Bea’s Grapploct.

I forgot it was hidden.

Then Dragonite is stronger than Lucario.

 

[Sham]

Wait, didn't Korrina also go through a winning streak that long too.

...Oh my god, this is RICH.

More or less. Her battle with Ash would of been her 99th win.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

More or less. Her battle with Ash would of been her 99th win.

Yeah. Her 100th win milestone was...beating TRio.

Impressive how we could tell she was fated for crapdom after that.

Wonder how that Sandscrew kid is doing, by the way.

 

[WaterShuriken]

Perhaps to lessen animation since it's "irrelevant" in a sense that the only important point is that Bea defeated Korrina...

Anyway, on topic, is Dracovish really participating? I doubt it'll get a W but that means that Dragonite will sweep again...

Dracovish could tie with Haxorus, especially if Haxorus is newly evolved.

 

[dman_dustin]

Just pointing this out but it was never confirmed that Bea’s Grapploct was the Pokémon she used to beat Korrina’s Mega Lucario.

If anything the fact that they went out of their way to hide the identity of the Pokémon that beat Korrina’s Mega Lucario in the flashback would heavily suggest that Grapploct wasn’t the Pokémon Bea used to beat Korrina’s Mega Lucario and instead a different Pokémon was responsible for Mega Lucario’s defeat.

Because at the end of the day no matter how you try to argue it there is literally no reason to hide the identity of Bea’s Pokémon that beat Korrina’s Mega Lucario if it was just Bea’s Grapploct.

However there's really no reason to suspect it wasn't Grapploct.

Unless Grapploct was easily beaten by Korrina's Mega Lucario the fact that Bea has been relying on Grapploct in all her major fights where she only uses a secondary random fighting seems to indicate her sole focus has been on Grapploct which is at odds of her using something else against Korrina.

Further more if we assume Machamp is Bea's strongest Pokemon then it further doesn't make sense that Bea would use Machamp against Korrina unless Bea really wanted to beat Korrina and was afraid of Mega Lucario but there's a few issues with this:

1. Bea said Korrina was basically a pushover, either Bea was lying which I cannot imagine why Bea would lie since she's very direct and to the point. So if Bea has to rely on her strongest to defeat Korrina, I'd fail to see why Korrina was a pushover, if Grapploct isn't yet on Machamp's level (again if we assume it's Machamp).

2. We cannot assume Korrina vs Bea was a 2 vs 2 since a vast majority of PWCs have been 1 vs 1 where 2 vs 2 only happened with Ash against Visquez (Gym Leader Stand in), Korrina (Gym Leader), Bea (Technical Gym Leader, twice), its just far more likely since battles against Leon have been 1 vs 1, that it likely would've been a 1 vs 1, which probably would lead more credence to Bea calling Korrina a pushover. And since Bea's insistence on using Grapploct throughout her appearances, it would then mean Bea had to use Grapploct, since if it was a 1 vs 1, Bea could only use one Pokemon. It would be bizarre for me to believe that Bea immediately used Machamp for a 1 vs 1, given her insistence of using Grapploct in everything, which again would point to a lie by Bea, if she did use Machamp to defeat Korrina, then Korrina must've defeated Bea in an earlier match easily thus why Bea is training Grapploct, but calling Korrina a pushover? Easy? Even though in this hypothetical scenario she had to rely on Machamp? Doesn't make sense to me.

3. Grapploct's strategy alone would likely throw off a seasoned fighter like Korrina. Given that Bea is a world class martial artist whereas I don't think Korrina has much martial artist experience. Korrina seems more like the athletic really strong fighting type gym leader whereas most other fighting type gym leaders (with Brawly also being excluded) definitely fit the martial artist aspect far more than Korrina especially Bea. Octolock would likely just be that devastating even to Mega Lucario since I'm not sure Korrina would have that level of experience. A) Octolock is exclusive to Grapploct B). How many trainers are likely to battle Korrina in Kalos that come from Galar let alone have Grapploct let alone Octolock on their moveset?

Now as to why it wasn't shown (Grapploct), well at this point Grapploct was still really a mystery Pokemon, having only been barely glimpsed by Ash before Bea recalled it. And it probably just wasn't a high priority to reveal it was Grapploct but rather Korrina's actual defeat. Plus it could be seen as coming from Bea's perspective, who might not have had Grapploct or even Machamp (if we're assuming this) in her field of vision.

Perhaps to lessen animation since it's "irrelevant" in a sense that the only important point is that Bea defeated Korrina...

Anyway, on topic, is Dracovish really participating? I doubt it'll get a W but that means that Dragonite will sweep again...

I just want to see it using moves, win or lose.

 

[AJ97]

Explain yourself. The anime has given us no reason to believe Iris is a weak trainer or battler. She was considered a child prodigy and got a Gym offer based off two battles as well as a 99 winning streak. It’s funny how you’re implying that Gary is a “better” person for Ash to loose to when said person already got beat by Ash in a 6 v 6 battle and a type disadvantage. Not to mention Gary took time off from being a trainer to do research while Iris has actively been a trainer since she left Ash. I smell bias. Also I wish y’all would stop basing other characters accomplishments and development off of Ash as if they’re not their own characters and simply exist to boost him up.

1. In the Pokemon series as a whole, in terms of main characters, Ash has always been the main "Pokemon Trainer", essentially the strongest of the bunch in terms of talent for battling. If Iris was Ash's rival in the Unova region, that would be an exception but she wasn't. While you could say that she is definitely stronger than most of Ash's travel companions, not once was she shown to be much superior to Ash and considering the fact that Unova Ash is probably the most incompetent version of Ash (Disregarding Kanto where he was still a rookie), this further adds to my point.

2. Iris's 99 win streak doesn't really mean anything. Do you remember A.J back in Kanto who had a 100 win streak with his Sandshrew. Whatever happened to him lol.

3. Gary was also considered to be a Prodigy and most importantly, he was someone who was considered to be "Superior" to Ash. This is the key point. Iris was never shown to be more talented or in general be someone who Ash would have to surpass to beat. If anything, she was shown to be inferior to one of the most incompetent versions of Ash. Gary on the other hand, was always considered to be superior. Even during their match in the Johto League, Gary had the upperhand almost throughout the battle and only finally lost due to Ash's unique creative style of battling. And for the record, even if Gary decided to take a break from battling, did you forget that this same Gary defeated post battle frontier Ash with his electivire effortlessly? And with regard to your argument about Gary losing with type advantages, when has that ever mattered in the anime lol?

This has nothing to do with bias. If Iris was Ash's rival in the Unova region, it would be one thing but she wasn't. Also, this is a series which is trying to essentially bring Ash to a Regional Champion tier trainer. Even if Ash loses to Leon, him getting to the Master Class should essentially make him definitely Elite four tier if not Regional Champion tier considering the fact that even someone like Lance is a part of the Master Class.

If Ash loses to Iris at this point, it does demean his character growth so far and spoils the narrative. The one who is biased in this scenario as you as evident by your profile picture. Whether you like it or not, Ash is the main character and while I do agree that the other characters deserve their own accomplishments and success and their own stories, their accomplishments shouldn't be spoiling the main narrative which is Ash's story.

I would be glad to see Iris defeat Drayden in a rematch or maybe even her become the regional champion in the future and challenging Ash ("Assuming Ash becomes the Pokemon World Champion"). But her getting there before Ash spoils the narrative.

And as for why this is okay with Gary simply has to do with Gary's character in the narrative.
1) He was Ash's "RIVAL" and someone much superior to him almost throughout the series.
2) He was shown to be a very competent battler and now also, has the research experience that adds further merit to his battle IQ.

 

[Morax]

1. In the Pokemon series as a whole, in terms of main characters, Ash has always been the main "Pokemon Trainer", essentially the strongest of the bunch in terms of talent for battling. If Iris was Ash's rival in the Unova region, that would be an exception but she wasn't. While you could say that she is definitely stronger than most of Ash's travel companions, not once was she shown to be much superior to Ash and considering the fact that Unova Ash is probably the most incompetent version of Ash (Disregarding Kanto where he was still a rookie), this further adds to my point.

2. Iris's 99 win streak doesn't really mean anything. Do you remember A.J back in Kanto who had a 100 win streak with his Sandshrew. Whatever happened to him lol.

3. Gary was also considered to be a Prodigy and most importantly, he was someone who was considered to be "Superior" to Ash. This is the key point. Iris was never shown to be more talented or in general be someone who Ash would have to surpass to beat. If anything, she was shown to be inferior to one of the most incompetent versions of Ash. Gary on the other hand, was always considered to be superior. Even during their match in the Johto League, Gary had the upperhand almost throughout the battle and only finally lost due to Ash's unique creative style of battling. And for the record, even if Gary decided to take a break from battling, did you forget that this same Gary defeated post battle frontier Ash with his electivire effortlessly? And with regard to your argument about Gary losing with type advantages, when has that ever mattered in the anime lol?

This has nothing to do with bias. If Iris was Ash's rival in the Unova region, it would be one thing but she wasn't. Also, this is a series which is trying to essentially bring Ash to a Regional Champion tier trainer. Even if Ash loses to Leon, him getting to the Master Class should essentially make him definitely Elite four tier if not Regional Champion tier considering the fact that even someone like Lance is a part of the Master Class.

If Ash loses to Iris at this point, it does demean his character growth so far and spoils the narrative. The one who is biased in this scenario as you as evident by your profile picture. Whether you like it or not, Ash is the main character and while I do agree that the other characters deserve their own accomplishments and success and their own stories, their accomplishments shouldn't be spoiling the main narrative which is Ash's story.

I would be glad to see Iris defeat Drayden in a rematch or maybe even her become the regional champion in the future and challenging Ash ("Assuming Ash becomes the Pokemon World Champion"). But her getting there before Ash spoils the narrative.

And as for why this is okay with Gary simply has to do with Gary's character in the narrative.
1) He was Ash's "RIVAL" and someone much superior to him almost throughout the series.
2) He was shown to be a very competent battler and now also, has the research experience that adds further merit to his battle IQ.

Both iris and gary are fodder who only exist as stepping stones for ash to advance. And that'll be the case with everyone, ash won't lose to any old characters.

 

[DuskAstral]

.Also, this is a series which is trying to essentially bring Ash to a Regional Champion tier trainer.

Just a reminder that Satoshi is the regional Alola Champion, as if someone forgot.

 

[GarchompChain]

Just a reminder that Satoshi is the regional Alola Champion, as if someone forgot.

But he isn't though. That has been made clear now several times, even here on Serebii.

Cynthia and Diantha are the regional champions. Ash is a league winner, like Alain and Tobias.

 

[CMButch]

I think Dragonite still beats it out in terms of power. I don't know if Ash's Lucario is up there to be equal to or superior to Korrina's Mega Lucario atm.

Dragonite is definitely second strongest. Point is him beating Korrina's two Pokemon is definitely good but not as good as Lucario beating two Rose's.Lucario is def above ML. Riolu wasn't but it was above K's Lucario. Lucario is above ML with Rose's feat.

 

[AJ97]

Both iris and gary are fodder who only exist as stepping stones for ash to advance. And that'll be the case with everyone, ash won't lose to any old characters.

I partially agree with what you said. All of Ash's rivals are essentially stepping stones towards Ash's final goal because after all, Ash is the main character. That said, one can assume that one of these characters could potentially act like a roadblock Ash needs to overcome to accomplish his final goal. Frankly speaking, I would much rather prefer an Elite four Member like Flint to be Ash's major wall he needs to overcome to reach his goal of battling Leon. But if it has to be either Gary or Iris, it would make a lot more sense from a plot perspective, to give that role to Gary instead of Iris.

Just a reminder that Satoshi is the regional Alola Champion, as if someone forgot.

Like one of the previous commenters said, the Alola league can be compared more to a traditional regional league which Alain and Tobias won. Based on comments made by Cynthia during the Sinnoh Region, the winner of the Regional League goes on to compete in the Champion's league which is probably battles against the elite four members/ regional champion, and winning this would result in the individual being the new official regional champion of that region.

Granted Ash is the strongest trainer in Alola and you could sort of give him the "Regional Champion Position". But technically, he did have a similar accomplishment in the past where he competed in the Orange Island League and defeated Drake to become the Orange League Champion. And I think it's fair to say that Ash has always seemed to be a lot inferior to Elite Four Members/Regional Champions much after.

Plus, even Leon treats Ash more like a Beginner with a lot of talent and potential and not like a Regional Champion who he would probably have treated more like an equal/ rival of sorts.

 

[Ragnarok4]

He as Riolu tied with Grapploct even though Grapploct is probably still stronger but as Lucario he one shot two Rose's Pokemon that were above Riolu. So like two Grapploct.

It should be remembered that Riolu drew with Grapploct thanks to a strategy devised by Ash

Besides, that doesn't prove anything ... We still don't know if Sirfertch'd can defeat two Grapploct

I repeat, it is not proven that Bea use Grapploct to defeat Korrina

 

[DuskAstral]

Based on comments made by Cynthia during the Sinnoh Region, the winner of the Regional League goes on to compete in the Champion's league which is probably battles against the elite four members/ regional champion, and winning this would result in the individual being the new official regional champion of that region

This hardly applies to Alola as she is newly formed. It seems to me that the winner of the first league becomes a champion from the slot machine, and only the winners of the next leagues must take part in the Champions league to take over the title

 

[WaterShuriken]

Dragonite is definitely second strongest. Point is him beating Korrina's two Pokemon is definitely good but not as good as Lucario beating two Rose's.Lucario is def above ML. Riolu wasn't but it was above K's Lucario. Lucario is above ML with Rose's feat.

I don't think we should put that much credit on it KOing Rose's Pokémon compared to Korrina. Everything in that episode was rushed to reach the conclusion of the Darkest Day arc. Because why would they have Lucario struggle against Poison-type Pokémon he's immune to. Plus remember, he was in a double battle with Pikachu and Ash made Rose's Pokémon attack each other. It's basically like KOing two of TR's gatchamons to get on with the story.

We need to see Lucario in an actual battle. Right now, I don't think he's stronger than Korrina's Mega Lucario which we know Dragonite is. Even when we saw the team training together, Dragonite was fending off Lucario's punches.

 

[Jibanyan]

Actually Iris winning would be good if Dragonite obeys her now and can pull a win since in BW it was either Dragonite not listening to her and winning or Dragonite listening to her and losing. I want Ash to get down some ranking too so Iris winning would be ideal but knowing this series...

 

[Almighty Zard]

the safest outcome to me would be a draw, but I know the writers don't like doing that, cause what's likely to happen is the anime gets a winner but not the fandom.

at the same time if Ash is going to advance i'd rather they go ahead and let him get into the ultra tier and hopefully the battling will get more intense to where he'll need more focus on his training.

Also, all this talk about "how long" someone's had a pokemon being a factor is kind of silly since by that logic someone like say Pryce who's been around a long time shouldn't lose to anyone because of how long he's been a trainer.

Heck with as long as Ash has had Pikachu it shouldn't lose to anything that's not a ground type, but that isn't the case now is it?

 

[AsH KetcHHup]

The problem with Ash losing is that they feel like they are required to bring the trainer back who beat him. I think it would be cool for some random mysterious trainer to beat Ash and then leave without saying goodbye.

 

[Morax]

The problem with Ash losing is that they feel like they are required to bring the trainer back who beat him. I think it would be cool for some random mysterious trainer to beat Ash and then leave without saying goodbye.

So....tobias?

 

[AsH KetcHHup]

So....tobias?

No. That was different. Just one of those trainers where Ash loses and then begs the other trainer to help the pokemon that lost learn a new move.