shoz999
Back when Tigers used to smoke.
If it were up to me. I'd include Kiloude City as the site of a small party/celebration/mega evolution test they'd might have at the end of a story, just a short little reference and that's it.
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May Plot Discussion
- Thread starter e9310103838
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Zhydra
Master of Chaos!
There is rushing through important characters growths and then there is just skipping it altogether! Its pretty bad when two of the most important characters in this story are NOT there for the final battle or if the most important character in the games story (I am also meaning USUM since Lusamine was still doing mostly the same crap!) As well as the most important character for the SM animes first season was robbed of everything that made her good in those adaptations! Where she actually grows.
No growth for her and no climax for Gladion. (Despite the manga's build up!) Means an overall weaker story since the Dex Holders are having to deal with THEIR problem.
shoz999
Back when Tigers used to smoke.
The manga isn't finished and I think your missing something about Adventures USUM. It's about the mysteries of the Alolan region and one of those mysteries is Lillie and Gladion's family which has yet to be resolved at all because it's still in progression. In fact just a few chapters ago, the story is still progressing this and asking new questions, revealing new mysteries about Lusamine's family, most notably their father Mohn. Also I can understand your frustration that you feel that Lillie hasn't gotten a proper adaptation but we shouldn't ignore the fact that Gladion got a lot of character development and this Lusamine is for the most part faithful to the games in that she's working behind the scenes, her story being told through other characters point of views piece by piece.
Honestly this is a very strange chapter. The SMUSUM chapter is actually doing a very good job in exploring the mysteries around the Alola region and yet they've skipped huge chunks of the region.
Zhydra
Master of Chaos!
I'm not denying that Gladion has had development. But all that and he ISN'T fighting Lusamine is one of the things I am angry about. Speaking of which, I get Lusamine doing things in the shadows, but we NEVER see her on screen besides flash backs and once again, the Dex holders are the ones fighting her, with the build up... we are getting something much more shallow than what I am expecting.
We never get to see her on screen doing things actively in the plot until now. Making A LOT of plot points about her, coming the heck out of nowhere with no build up. A lot of plot points some of us want answers to that we probably are getting from another source and I hope it is done soon! (We are not getting that since Lusamine is going mother beast!)
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shoz999
Back when Tigers used to smoke.
That's not how I see it. I think it's building up to something more grander than you think. What you think is shallow, I think it's still fairly early for Gladion and Lillie. In fact I think it's so early that I think Lillie's story is actually nearing a very important part in her character progression, her change of clothing's. You may have noticed that 6 months after and Lillie is still wearing the same clothes, the clothes that Lusamine demanded she wear out of beauty, a symbol of Lusamine's controlling behavior. It's when Lillie dons a different set of clothes that she prefers and ventures with the protagonist is when it's a step closer to her confronting Lusamine, saying her mother is the one acting like a child and I feel instead of the protagonist, it will be Gladion, her brother, that will take that role. It's also because of this stage that I feel Gladion's fight, his attempt to save Lusamine, is also early. In fact if I'm right, this will mirror closely to the games plot as Lusamine doesn't fully introduce her true colors to the protagonist until late in the game as a late-game boss.
Because of this I also don't think the USUM story is in the late stages either. It's nearing there but it's not at there.
As for Lusamine's character, I actually think a lot of those plot points had a lot more build-up than you think through Gladion's, Lillie's and Guzma's character, not through how they directly say who is Lusamine but how they come into contact of the consequences of her actions and how she affected them in some way. In fact Lusamine's first hinted appearance happens as early as the tournament where Guzma mentions there is only one person who can boss him around, which implies he has connection to Lusamine like in the games. Any plot points about Lusamine that you felt were just out of nowhere?
Zhydra
Master of Chaos!
The problem is Gladion and Lillie are NOWHERE near that confrontation. If Lillie had a chance to change, it would have been around when she blew the stinking flute to evolve Nebby. Which she didn't even get to do!
The Dex Holders are the ones fighting Lusamine, as the mother beast, where she will be out for the count once Nebby does her thing. Then we get Necrozma, if we have the siblings chewing her out... it will be AFTER she got her butt kicked. (The very thing people complained about with the USUM games!)
I know there was a lot of build up with her, however the fact she doesn't DO anything and has no interaction with anyone on screen, makes her pretty weak as a character. She is more of a plot device for our heroes to beat.
One out of nowhere thing, the second Cosmog she gave to Guzma. It came out of nowhere and exist JUST to get the Ultra Beast plot going. The other is the six month time skip, where really... only a months worth of events really happened. (Faba taking over Aether and the Beasts derping at Poni Island!)
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shoz999
Back when Tigers used to smoke.
1. WAIT A MINUTE! I THINK YOUR ONTO SOMETHING! What if after Lillie dons her clothes as a symbol of defiance of her mother, Gladion and Lillie have to practice playing the Sun and Moon flutes! Lillie does it perfectly but Gladion is hilariously having trouble playing the flute! This is how Lillie and Gladion and other characters perhaps could go into the Ultra Space and help with Sun & Moon in the final battle which composes of so many characters. That would be freaking amazing solution! It's so obvious now. Actually come to think of it, whatever happened to those flutes? Did Sun and Moon take them or did they accidentally drop them?
2. I feel like Lusamine is one of those powerful villains where your going to need more than one person to fight her unless your Red. Although Necrozma is there that doesn't actually take away Lusamine's status as a threat. In fact this is not even anything new to the Pokemon series so I feel like you should be less surprised either way if Lusamine is fought by one or more people.
3. Oh right. The second Cosmog. You mentioned this before but I forgot to make sense out of that. Yeah, I think the writer is definitely going to explain the second Cosmog's origins later on. If it's going by lore, that Cosmog most likely came from the Lake of Sunne/Moone. It would be more surprising if Kusaka didn't explain the obvious.
Although to be honest, oh man. The Lake of Sunne and Moone. That would've been a perfect camping location for Sun and Moon to watch the stars, maybe we get a big panel shot of a wide beautiful lake reflecting the stars. It's these missed little opportunities that makes me hate these tight deadlines.
BenLee really not taken
Hey everyone, Bhrjr here.
So like, how exactly should have Kusaka improved? Stop the focus on BW2 and give more care to the Sm Arc? Search all different sorts of megazines so that he may be able to install more chapters monthly? Make each chapters really long? Work harder at least so he can at least have a larger story, thus all characters then can have a focus? It certainly was strange in 2018 when he and Yamamoto almost only released chapters once per month. Or, even, they might be getting old, and doesn’t feel like working anymore. That may really explain why only 1 magazine releases per month. Kusaka is soon turning 50 anyway.
In defense of Lillie in Spe, someone did say, since the game showed A LOT on Lillie, that we don’t need that much focus of her in the manga. But of course, this argument doesn’t matter.
Zhydra
Master of Chaos!
1. No idea and the Siblings have no Cosmoem to evolve! They also have Faba to deal with and Gladion's injury has him mostly out of action. (Injury came out of nowhere.)
2. The Dex Holders, have Nebby with them and she can just knock Lusamine off that jellyfish once she stops being scared of her.
3. Does the writer have any time to do that?
shoz999
Back when Tigers used to smoke.
1. True but I don't think it'll just be Faba. Surely even you must find it oddly suspicious that the writer intentionally separated Lillie and Gladion from the Dexholders. I think Lillie and Gladion may have a far bigger role than just Faba.
2. Nope. There's multiple scenarios where possessed Lusamine can play out and like past villains, we shouldn't be surprised if Lusamine trumps their trump card with her Ultra Beasts. In fact I'm not even sure if straight-up attacking the jellyfish will work out since Lusamine might be in harm's way and unlike say Giovanni who was still seen as a horrible person back than, Lillie and Gladion probably just want the old Lusamine back before Mohn disappeared.
3. Yup. They can just explain it with some dialogue and show the place in a some kind of flashback. Actually, come to think of it. That might be another location where they can go to Ultra Space.
2. Nope. There's multiple scenarios where possessed Lusamine can play out and like past villains, we shouldn't be surprised if Lusamine trumps their trump card with her Ultra Beasts. In fact I'm not even sure if straight-up attacking the jellyfish will work out since Lusamine might be in harm's way and unlike say Giovanni who was still seen as a horrible person back than, Lillie and Gladion probably just want the old Lusamine back before Mohn disappeared.
3. Yup. They can just explain it with some dialogue and show the place in a some kind of flashback. Actually, come to think of it. That might be another location where they can go to Ultra Space.
Zhydra
Master of Chaos!
Not talking about that, Nebby did this trick back in the games on her and Lusamine was fine... if in a small coma until she recovered off screen! That doesn't mean we won't get to see the two dex holders get the crap beaten out of them!
shoz999
Back when Tigers used to smoke.
2. I vividly remember it now but I get what your saying. Honestly it seems more likely that Ultra Necrozma is going to use Solgaleo's body then. However I still believe that the "finishing blow" still needs to work around the fact that Lusamine has her own Pokemon team and Ultra Beasts getting in the way which would require a team of trainers. Even legendaries can be overwhelmed and Ultra Beasts are much stronger, taking on the Tapus. Then after this, the worn-out trainers have to deal with the much stronger Ultra Necrozma which might get some help from Guzma and maybe Lusamine if she's conscious.
Honestly the more I'm talking about this, the more excited I am at the numerous possibilities of how Lillie & Gladion will get back to Ultra Space. They'll need to find connections? Burnett's research which involves the Creation trio? Faba who had deep ties to Aether Foundation's research into UB? Plumeria who is Guzma's second-in-comand and probably knows how Team Skull acquired a Cosmog and by extension how to create a wormhole in the Lake of Sunne/Moone? Oh! For all we know, Kusaka could go with the unusued design of the Lake of Sunne/Moone where there's a giant wormhole underneath the lake. Or maybe they find Mohn who was lost in Ultra Space for years to come? So many ways Lillie and Gladion can bet back to Ultra Space.
Honestly the more I'm talking about this, the more excited I am at the numerous possibilities of how Lillie & Gladion will get back to Ultra Space. They'll need to find connections? Burnett's research which involves the Creation trio? Faba who had deep ties to Aether Foundation's research into UB? Plumeria who is Guzma's second-in-comand and probably knows how Team Skull acquired a Cosmog and by extension how to create a wormhole in the Lake of Sunne/Moone? Oh! For all we know, Kusaka could go with the unusued design of the Lake of Sunne/Moone where there's a giant wormhole underneath the lake. Or maybe they find Mohn who was lost in Ultra Space for years to come? So many ways Lillie and Gladion can bet back to Ultra Space.
e9310103838
Well-Known Member
Because Moon is the heroine in here. I think this is why they cut off Lillie's plot. But there is no doubt that she will get her spotlight at some point. And I don’t think Kusaka and Yamamoto have lost their enthusiasm for creation. At least Yamamoto doesn’t seem to have lost it.
I suspect Lillie and Gladion will enter Ultra Space. They can transfer the battlefield from Ultra Space to Alola. On the other hand, they deliberately avoided mentioning Ultra Ruin made me guess that might have some plot about here.
shoz999
Back when Tigers used to smoke.
I personally hope they make some use of the Lake of Sunne/Moone or I suppose the Lake of Ula'ula as a second gateway into the Ultra Space. Seriously, that location is so underused by GameFreak. They clearly had some kind of big plans for that location judging how there's a giant wormhole underneath the lake.Because Moon is the heroine in here. I think this is why they cut off Lillie's plot. But there is no doubt that she will get her spotlight at some point. And I don’t think Kusaka and Yamamoto have lost their enthusiasm for creation. At least Yamamoto doesn’t seem to have lost it.
I suspect Lillie and Gladion will enter Ultra Space. They can transfer the battlefield from Ultra Space to Alola. On the other hand, they deliberately avoided mentioning Ultra Ruin made me guess that might have some plot about here.
We literally have a poster with Lusamine surrounded by Ultra Beasts, including Ultra Necrozma. Why are you assuming she's going to lose here and now?
Except he didn't. The Unknown Dungeon was seen exactly once and never had anything to do with the final battle.
shoz999
Back when Tigers used to smoke.
Okay. Then the Pokemon Village stood out quite a lot. Although personally I thought the Unknown Dungeon was memorable as it marked Mewtwo's re-introduction into the series.
Zhydra
Master of Chaos!
Considering everything else that was rushed and how we need to get to Necrozma and wrap up this plot in eight months, Kusaka literally does not have time to fool around with Lusamine any longer than he already has unless he wants a repeat of BW2.
We also have Stakataka showing up out of nowhere in Ultra Megaopolis and not among the beast that were let loose on Alola. So Necrozma would most likely act on his own volition and cause havoc once he goes Ultra.
Gamzee Makara
Flirtin' With Disaster
Lillie is boring. The worst part of Gen VII.
"rushed"
Well if people hadn't pestered him on Twitter every day for 6 years for MOAR chapters, we wouldn't be here.
Kusaka is under NO obligation to keep everything up to date on the dot. It is preposterously presumptive to think otherwise.
I don't see George R. R. Martin yelled at PROPORTIONATELY as much for the same thing. I wonder why...
TotallyNotCrt
Well-Known Member
Hello. After talking with Serebii himself, I've decided to write more lengthier summaries as opposed to bullet point style. You can find accompanying pictures linked here, but to maintain flow of everything, it'd just be one giant block summary.
https://twitter.com/taddlelegacy/status/1108422818113306625
Soliera asks if that’s a Pokemon, but Zossie says that in the past it combined into a four-legged Pokemon and asks Moon for confirmation. Moon explains that it’s called the Zygarde Cell while Rotomdex explains that individually, they can’t attack. Stakataka loses balance and is defeated by Lunala. Sun explains to Soliera that even if Zygarde can’t attack, it can cover the eyes by sticking on it. The rest was simply just leaving it up to Moon and Lunala. Soliera is surprised that Sun was able to figure this out on his first encounter with it, but Zossie says that they’re the incarnations of the moon and it’s because they’re a group that you can trust and rely on each other.
At this moment, the auras that surround Lunala, Sun, and Moon strengthens and becomes visible. At the top of the tower is Dusk Mane Necrozma, still visibly weakened and in pain even after augmenting Solgaleo into its body. It notices the aura emanating from Lunala and jumps off the tower to encounter it, ejecting Solgaleo out of its body.
Back at the Poni Altar, Commander Phyco meets up with Lusamine, who disappointingly tells her that she won’t be able to use Lunala to get across to the Ultra Megalopolis. He says he ran late because he was trying to cooperate with Naganadel. Lusamine asks if it’s also an Ultra Beasts and Phyco responds saying that it is and it’s a UB that treats them nicely. Lusamine calls it beautiful as it creates a purring noise. Phyco warns her about the three needles that protrude out of its body, saying that it’s venomous. Lusamine then asks if it’s a Poison-type, but Phyco has no idea what that means.
Lusamine then attacks the Naganadel in a battle with her own Pokemon, severely beating it down and then captures it with her Beast Ball. She then holds the Beast Ball up to her chest saying that the capture was a success and the Ultra Beast is now *her* Pokemon. Phyco then is confused at the Beast Ball because now they’ve lost their way back to the Ultra Megalopolis. But Lusamine explains to him that it’s not a problem, all the Beast Ball did was capture it and it’ll listen to her now. She then sends it out and gently pets it calling it her cute child as it also embraces her back. She then says that this is also needed for the salvation of the “Blinding One.”
Back to the Ultra Megalopolis, Necrozma approaches Sun and Moon injured. Soliera explains to them that it’s the Blinding One. Moon puts two and two together from what Anabel said back before the time skip about “The Blinding One.” She realizes that it’s “The Blinding One’s” power and this world’s science fault that caused them to lose their light. Soliera clarifies that it was formally known as Necrozma.
Soliera explains the backstory for Necrozma, that it used to not just roam around Ultra Megalopolis, but across all of Ultra Space illuminating the entire reaches of the worlds from corner to corner and the other side of the Ultra Space. She then explains that foolish humans tried to take control of this energy by controlling it, but in the process, a piece of its body broke off and went missing. Because of this, even though the wound was cured, it wasn’t actually whole and light kept cracking out of it and vanished. Necrozma would then try to regain light and become whole, but in the process, all light was lost. More backstory comes to light where Soliera reveals that her predecessors managed to contain Necrozma into this tower to provide artificial light. She then talks about why it went after the avatars of the Sun and Moon because travel from Ultra Megalopolis and Alola was made possible because of the Aether foundation. Necrozma was able to merge Solgaleo, but its light wasn’t enough.
Sun then realizes that Necrozma is going to go after Lunala as it did with Solgaleo, then he and Moon can’t go back to Alola. He commands Lunala to take out Necrozma before it takes it out. The battle starts with Lunala initiating with a Moongeist Beam, but Necrozma dodges out of the way and claws Lunala in the chest before it has time to fire another shot and slams it into the ground. Sun and Moon summon all their available Pokemon to pincer attack Necrozma as it’s focused on Lunala, but they’re all swept away from what appears to be a horde of Naganadels with Lusamine, Phyco, and Aether agents. Phyco introduces her as Lusamine and she declares that she and her foundation will be the ones to carry out the salvation for the Blinding Ones.
Upon hearing the Foundation’s name, Sun pauses and loses his temper and aks if she’s the one who told Faba to take his grandpa’s island. And not just that, but now she’s taking Lunala. Moon tries to calm Sun down, but he doesn’t give budge. Lusamine respond with “Take?” looking confused and concerned at Sun. Lusamine becomes more visibly and visibly upset, asking what did she take from him? If anything, it's her that got something taken away. If anything, it was she who couldn't do anything. So she vowed to become strong and beautiful. Tears fall from her eyes and she opens a Beast Ball containing a giant Nihilego. Three speech bubbles appear saying, “Come, my lovely child. Let's become one/join together.” Nihilego swallows her, much to Sun and Moon’s horror becoming Mother Beast.
That's all for this month's of CoroCoro Ichiban!
https://twitter.com/taddlelegacy/status/1108422818113306625
Soliera asks if that’s a Pokemon, but Zossie says that in the past it combined into a four-legged Pokemon and asks Moon for confirmation. Moon explains that it’s called the Zygarde Cell while Rotomdex explains that individually, they can’t attack. Stakataka loses balance and is defeated by Lunala. Sun explains to Soliera that even if Zygarde can’t attack, it can cover the eyes by sticking on it. The rest was simply just leaving it up to Moon and Lunala. Soliera is surprised that Sun was able to figure this out on his first encounter with it, but Zossie says that they’re the incarnations of the moon and it’s because they’re a group that you can trust and rely on each other.
At this moment, the auras that surround Lunala, Sun, and Moon strengthens and becomes visible. At the top of the tower is Dusk Mane Necrozma, still visibly weakened and in pain even after augmenting Solgaleo into its body. It notices the aura emanating from Lunala and jumps off the tower to encounter it, ejecting Solgaleo out of its body.
Back at the Poni Altar, Commander Phyco meets up with Lusamine, who disappointingly tells her that she won’t be able to use Lunala to get across to the Ultra Megalopolis. He says he ran late because he was trying to cooperate with Naganadel. Lusamine asks if it’s also an Ultra Beasts and Phyco responds saying that it is and it’s a UB that treats them nicely. Lusamine calls it beautiful as it creates a purring noise. Phyco warns her about the three needles that protrude out of its body, saying that it’s venomous. Lusamine then asks if it’s a Poison-type, but Phyco has no idea what that means.
Lusamine then attacks the Naganadel in a battle with her own Pokemon, severely beating it down and then captures it with her Beast Ball. She then holds the Beast Ball up to her chest saying that the capture was a success and the Ultra Beast is now *her* Pokemon. Phyco then is confused at the Beast Ball because now they’ve lost their way back to the Ultra Megalopolis. But Lusamine explains to him that it’s not a problem, all the Beast Ball did was capture it and it’ll listen to her now. She then sends it out and gently pets it calling it her cute child as it also embraces her back. She then says that this is also needed for the salvation of the “Blinding One.”
Back to the Ultra Megalopolis, Necrozma approaches Sun and Moon injured. Soliera explains to them that it’s the Blinding One. Moon puts two and two together from what Anabel said back before the time skip about “The Blinding One.” She realizes that it’s “The Blinding One’s” power and this world’s science fault that caused them to lose their light. Soliera clarifies that it was formally known as Necrozma.
Soliera explains the backstory for Necrozma, that it used to not just roam around Ultra Megalopolis, but across all of Ultra Space illuminating the entire reaches of the worlds from corner to corner and the other side of the Ultra Space. She then explains that foolish humans tried to take control of this energy by controlling it, but in the process, a piece of its body broke off and went missing. Because of this, even though the wound was cured, it wasn’t actually whole and light kept cracking out of it and vanished. Necrozma would then try to regain light and become whole, but in the process, all light was lost. More backstory comes to light where Soliera reveals that her predecessors managed to contain Necrozma into this tower to provide artificial light. She then talks about why it went after the avatars of the Sun and Moon because travel from Ultra Megalopolis and Alola was made possible because of the Aether foundation. Necrozma was able to merge Solgaleo, but its light wasn’t enough.
Sun then realizes that Necrozma is going to go after Lunala as it did with Solgaleo, then he and Moon can’t go back to Alola. He commands Lunala to take out Necrozma before it takes it out. The battle starts with Lunala initiating with a Moongeist Beam, but Necrozma dodges out of the way and claws Lunala in the chest before it has time to fire another shot and slams it into the ground. Sun and Moon summon all their available Pokemon to pincer attack Necrozma as it’s focused on Lunala, but they’re all swept away from what appears to be a horde of Naganadels with Lusamine, Phyco, and Aether agents. Phyco introduces her as Lusamine and she declares that she and her foundation will be the ones to carry out the salvation for the Blinding Ones.
Upon hearing the Foundation’s name, Sun pauses and loses his temper and aks if she’s the one who told Faba to take his grandpa’s island. And not just that, but now she’s taking Lunala. Moon tries to calm Sun down, but he doesn’t give budge. Lusamine respond with “Take?” looking confused and concerned at Sun. Lusamine becomes more visibly and visibly upset, asking what did she take from him? If anything, it's her that got something taken away. If anything, it was she who couldn't do anything. So she vowed to become strong and beautiful. Tears fall from her eyes and she opens a Beast Ball containing a giant Nihilego. Three speech bubbles appear saying, “Come, my lovely child. Let's become one/join together.” Nihilego swallows her, much to Sun and Moon’s horror becoming Mother Beast.
That's all for this month's of CoroCoro Ichiban!
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Zhydra
Master of Chaos!
If you haven't read my mad rants. I'm still angry that Gladion and Lillie are NOT there for this battle.
But... this mother merging is QUITE different from the games in A LOT of categories.
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