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May's character development - a false 'Dawn'?

Blazing Charmander

Well-Known Member
Ok, bad pun aside, I just wanted to start a discussion about whether people felt that May's time on the main cast was cut horribly short. I've been thinking about her interesting character development throughout Hoenn and Kanto, and remembered just how well that the writers had handled her in the long-run.

As we all know, May started out as a timid traveller who had little to no interest in Pokemon or Pokemon training. It took her a while to admit this to Ash and co. and eventually, she settled upon the dream of being a Pokemon co-ordinator. We witnessed her at the very beginning of her contest career (which was by the way, a whole new concept in the Anime) when she and her Pokemon were inexperienced, and she gained a formidable rival in the form of Drew (yay Contestshipping!!!1!!1!) who wasn't scared of revealing to May her shortcomings. So eventually May became better and better at the whole Contest thing until she was well on her way down the path to the Grand Festival. Along the way, she also met a few other colourful rivals - most notably Harley.

Her first contest campaign and Grand Festival was a great learning curve, and her excellent development continued on in to the Battle Frontier saga. I personally enjoyed some of her centred-episodes like Time-Warp Heals All Wounds (one of my all-time favourites) and then her loss at the Kanto Grand Festival showed that there was way more room for improvement. Added to this was the fact that she had many under-developed Pokemon (unevolved Bulbasaur, Squirtle and Skitty) as well as a marketable Munchlax and an Eevee that could well have signalled a Sinnoh Eeveelution. I remember at the time, the fandom were anticipating May carrying on to the Diamond and Pearl series as a result. Then came the news that the new female character would replace her. Cue uproar.

Personally, I really like Dawn and have enjoyed her own contest career in Sinnoh. However, I can't help but facepalm at the fact that she replaced May on the cast to assume a like-minded dream, when the writers had clearly left May with plenty of room in the character development department. Fair enough, they gave her a feasible journey to Johto to compensate, but even then, would it have killed the writers to have created a sideseries (like Hoso/Chronicles) so that we could see her new journey unfold? I'd have quite liked to see the continuing rivaly between May and Drew/Harley/Solidad, as well as seeing her Bulbasaur and Squirtle evolve and win her ribbons in the process.

Sorry for ranting so much, but May's development is quite a detailed issue that caused a big divide in the fandom back in 2006. Three years later, I thought it'd be interesting to see what people's thoughts were about May's (and Max's ;)) sudden departure with so much potential left untapped.
 

5ilVer

<-- so adorable ^_^
well, to be honest I never really thought about that but if you ask me...
I really loved May and Max, and I loved May's character development it was pretty interesting since I remember her as a really really really really weak trainer with a chicken and a worm but she got to the final 4 in the grand festival so...that's huge....

I think that if you compare her to Dawn, May is a much more fun person to watch and all but I really loved what they have done with Dawn...
I think the whole losing contests thing and her training and Zoey are pretty much better with what happened with May...

this whole drama couldn't have happened if they kept May........and I don't wanna think about that since IT IS really good stuff happening....

on the other hand I think they kind of screw up with the whole rivals thing when it comes to Dawn, May's rivals were so much more fun to watch (and by that I mean contestshipping and gay Harley...)

but on the overall......I don't find myself missing May when I have Dawn to watch:)
 

J-boogie200

Well-Known Member
Well, can you imagine a Blaziken in the group? We might've had Mamoswine, Charizrd, and Snorlax. But a female trainer with a Blaziken and Venesaur in one group. That might be overkill although I'm always up for it.

I think because all of May's Pokemon got decent screentime and so did May's rivals, I mean, okay, maybe they could've done more with Soledad, cuz I loved her! But other than that, there's only so much the writer's could've done.

I mean, May had alreay did two GF's, and she's now going for her third and you know what they say 3rd times a charm. Good Luck May.

But I love Dawn, and her storyline doesn't bore me at all, even her rivals don't. Penguinshipping and Appealshipping are cute. Nando can be handled better though.

May staying on the show might have been overkill, and she really wouldn't of helped promote the games, except with Munchlax/Glaceon.

I miss Misty, Miss May, and will Miss Dawn. All three are great, and all kept me interested. We need to get them all in one place.
 

CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
When all is said and done, May will be the shortest-lived main female character.

Dawn is probably going to be around longer than May was, simply because the 5th gen is far off, and Misty was there for 260 eps.

But does it really matter? May got two Contest arcs, and the second which wrapped up her character and rivals nicely. Likewise the follow-up in the Wallace eps show that May is progressing as a trainer nicely.
 

Blazing Charmander

Well-Known Member
But does it really matter? May got two Contest arcs, and the second which wrapped up her character and rivals nicely. Likewise the follow-up in the Wallace eps show that May is progressing as a trainer nicely.

I guess that the fact we had May for two long sagas is something to be glad of, and I know that you were a self-confessed May fan back in the day Cyber, so it shows how it's not really something that should matter now. :)

In terms of May's progression in Johto, well i'm glad that we were able to see in the Wallace Cup arc just how far she's come. However, I still feel a little saddened that we weren't treated to a mini-series (ala Hoso/Chronicles) alongside the main Sinnoh saga, which would have shown May's key stages of development in Johto. For example, it seems quite weird how one minute we're looking at a young Bulbasaur who has been left at Professor Oak's lab and then while we're wrapped up in the events of Sinnoh, it evolves twice and we only get a sign of this in a two second cameo.

Overall, I suppose that May's stepping down as a main character isn't a major problem to the fanbase anymore. Too bad that we couldn't follow her subsequent progress in Johto though.
 

CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
I guess its because it really doesn't matter how much the episode count is, its really just what the writers did with the character.

For example Brock is in like 600 episodes, but since he doesn't really do anything in most of them, it feels like its a lot less despite him being in almost the entire series.

Also, look at how short-lived Harley was. He was only in the anime for 2 years, he didn't even debut until the tail-end of Hoenn. He was around for only 2 years and was one of the most popular rivals of the series. Sometimes I'm honestly surprised when I think about how Harley was only in the show for a short time, because for some reason it feels like he was around for longer.
 

Champion Jared 14

Well-Known Member
Wow, so basically you're upset because Dawn replaced May?? Come on, it hasn't even been 100 episodes since her last appearance...she'll be back soon...
 

Blazing Charmander

Well-Known Member
Wow, so basically you're upset because Dawn replaced May?? Come on, it hasn't even been 100 episodes since her last appearance...she'll be back soon...

Well that's not really my reason. Dawn's probably become one of my favourite characters over the course of the Sinnoh saga, so it's not that i'm exactly upset at her replacing May. My problem was more that I (and I suspect the majority of the fanbase back in 2006) were enjoying May's fantastic development as a co-ordinator, which looked set to continue (what with her getting an Eevee and Munchlax, along with a Squirtle and Bulbasaur which had yet to evolve).

I admit it was something that annoyed me a lot at the beginning of Diamond/Pearl when Dawn seemed like a May clone, but with Dawn's equally brilliant character development and entertainment value *coughfanservicecough*, i've begun to care less and less about it.

However, it was just a topic I became curious about the other night when I looked back at the Advance Generation and remembered how upset many others were at May's sudden departure, thus I wanted to see whether views had changed since then. From the few posts already made, it looks like that attitude has changed and been forgotten due to Dawn's success in her place. I'm happy to accept that too.
 

CyberCubed

Yeah, ok!
^ Well its because it happened 3 years ago now. DP started in September 2006...its now almost September 2009, almost 3 full years later.

Not to mention its no different from Dawn's inevitable departure once the 5th gen begins and they bring in whoever the next girl is.
 

Rex Kamex

Well-Known Member
^ Honestly, if the 5th gen girl's a coordinator, I don't think I'll care that much. In my opinion, she might as well be, if she's gonna replace Dawn... =P (I want a main girl, even though nothing suggests that'll happen, so what'll the 5th girl that'll be so appealing to me that I won't mind her replacing Dawn? Well, then again, it doesn't matter if she appeals to me 'cause I'm not in the target audience, but you get my point.)

Anyway, you all know where I stand on this...

Honestly, going from having one coordinator, who didn't even like Pokemon at first, to "Hi guys, I'm from the 4th gen, my mom's a coordinator so I wanna be too- oh, and the way things are going I'll be replaced by the 5th gen girl who might even do the same thing as me" doesn't really let me be attached to Dawn much. Of course I think May's character could've been improved, but still...

Well, can you imagine a Blaziken in the group? We might've had Mamoswine, Charizrd, and Snorlax. But a female trainer with a Blaziken and Venesaur in one group. That might be overkill although I'm always up for it.

Didn't May not have Venusaur until after she left? The writers probably gave her Venusaur because we wouldn't see if much since she wasn't in the main cast, so...

May staying on the show might have been overkill, and she really wouldn't of helped promote the games, except with Munchlax/Glaceon.

That could've been said of Ash when he went to Johto or any other future region. Ash is based on the boy of the original games, yet he's been collecting badges in regions of the next few generations. Having Pokemon of a generation isn't the only way to promote games of a generation.

As for May, participating in contests of the 4th generation automatically would've helped promote the games. And I think having her dress in different contest costumes (like in the Sinnoh games) would've been a neat bonus, although she probably would've only had one dress.

As for the overkill thing, I don't even think Combusken would've evolved if the writers were gonna have May stay.

Blazing Charmander said:
But other than that, there's only so much the writer's could've done.

The same could be said for Ash, but he's been here 600 episodes. I'm probably one of the minority, especially here, but I think May would've been fine had she stayed. Drew and Harley could've still gone to Johto, but Zoey could've helped motivate May to form her own battling style. Of course traveling on one's own would help make her form her own style, but leaving the group is not the only option.

Also, it was nice to see May develop to the point where she could travel on her own, but she didn't have to leave the group permanently for us to see that. It's not like Brock can't travel alone or anything, and he's still here... (It would've been interesting to see May accidentally get separated from Ash and then survive on her own, especially if she did a better job than Ash and co.- whoever "co." is...)

Blazing Charmander said:
Overall, I suppose that May's stepping down as a main character isn't a major problem to the fanbase anymore. Too bad that we couldn't follow her subsequent progress in Johto though.

As I've said before... I really see don't see how her developing in Johto would've been any better than if she was with Ash in Sinnoh, but since we weren't seeing her do it in Sinnoh, iwe might as well not see her doing it in Johto, imo. I know lots of people disagree with me on it. I'm just not one of the "make May leave the cast so we can later see her do more contests" people...

Wow, I have the most negative sounding post on this thread... Oh well...
 
I like both May and Dawn so I have to say it was May's time for leaving because that final episode really showed how far she came by traveling with Ash from the girl who hated pokemon and "stumbled from contest to contest"-Drew to the young woman who came so close to winning the ribbon cup. May's journey really developed her from a little girl to an independent woman and you saw that when she came back for the Wallace Cup. Sure it's upsetting to see the character you've watched for 3-4 years leave but you also get a new character to enjoy watching (Dawn) who you will watch develop and leave.
 

Champion Jared 14

Well-Known Member
May is in a place where her development is going to only get better from now on...May as a character was handled better than Dawn IMO, and I have to say the same goes for her pokemon as well.
 

Atlidevil

Game Hoarder
Well overall i like may better then dawn.

It would be nice if there would maybe come episodes where we leave Ash and co from time to time and have episodes with just may on her adventure around
 

Champion Jared 14

Well-Known Member
See, there are more people that would like to see the future development of May's character after leaving the show...Which makes me think they should do another spinoff on pokemon chronicles...it would be good to showcast may and the others...haha in your face cybercubed...lol
 

Rex Kamex

Well-Known Member
And me... *shrugs*

But anyway...

I like both May and Dawn so I have to say it was May's time for leaving because that final episode really showed how far she came by traveling with Ash from the girl who hated pokemon and "stumbled from contest to contest"-Drew to the young woman who came so close to winning the ribbon cup. May's journey really developed her from a little girl to an independent woman and you saw that when she came back for the Wallace Cup. Sure it's upsetting to see the character you've watched for 3-4 years leave but you also get a new character to enjoy watching (Dawn) who you will watch develop and leave.

And that's the problem with me (not really for anybody else), which is why I can't really enjoy Dawn for replacing someone who I thought developed well (but not perfectly) in character, only to be replaced by someone else who might even be doing the same thing. And it doesn't help that leaving is something people have expected Dawn to do since before D/P even started in Japan.

(And before anyone mentions this manga, this isn't like the manga Pokemon Special, where everybody is replaced and not certain people while others remain on and on and on the show.)

5ilVer said:
this whole drama couldn't have happened if they kept May........and I don't wanna think about that since IT IS really good stuff happening....

Since Ash still loses battles still, I think it's safe to say the same thing could've happened with May. (Although if it didn't,

J-boogie200 said:
May staying on the show might have been overkill, and she really wouldn't of helped promote the games, except with Munchlax/Glaceon.

Another point to mention... she could've, and would've, captured other 4th generation Pokemon anyway. So she'd be raising her current 4th generation Pokemon, capturing more 4th generation Pokemon (the infamous Squirtle doesn't have to acompany her to the Sinnoh region), participating in contests in the region of the 4th generation, and going on adventures in general in the 4th generation region. Not being a character of the 4th generation games doesn't mean she can't promote the games.
 

J-boogie200

Well-Known Member
^ You make a very valid point.

The thing is, May is very legendary. May was not only an enjoyable character, but one that overcame Goblins and Ghosts to get where she is today. I have to admit, if you compare May and Dawn's journeys on a realistic level, Dawn's was more realistic. However, May's Contests were done very nicely, the majority of them anyway.

May's Team is what Pokemon Fans dream of in a Female Character these days. Due to the fact that May had a Combusken, which is now a Blaziken, many people became impressed.

I'm telling you, if Dawn had a Monferno, instead of a Piplup people would give her team more credit. If Dawn had May's team, I'm sure people would respect Dawn more.

I must say, May's come a long way, she's definitely a character that I miss and that you rarely find in anime. She's good Looking, had great Pokemon, and has a Good Heart.

I don't mean to get all Young and the Restless, but one reason I liked May, was because of her Personality and her growth. She was not only given her own movie before her departure, but she had one of the biggest friendships in the series with a Legendary Pokemon, Manaphy. Let's not forget Swablu, either.

I may not have missed May as much as I miss Misty, and her departure May not have thrown me off guard like Misty's did, but she is one of the best females Pokemon has ever had. I've never liked May anyway, I've always loved her and her rivals! May is <3.
 
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