Meeting at Terminus Cave! (905)

[AuraKshatriya]

Some translations/clarifications:

-Can't remember exactly the exact timestamp, but they FINALLY made use of Rentora's X-Ray vision. There have been several times since it evolved where that would've come in handy, so it's nice to see they finally used it. Good to see Rentora playing a bigger role considering how awesome it is. Shame Luchabull's been missing in action for quite a while now... and Yancham is basically non-existent outside Showcases (though I prefer Tairenar anyway).
After the Onbat and Rentora lead the group to a tunnel and TR follows behind with Pumpjin:
Kojiro: "Seems these guys have a bit of a survivor's mentality." (Loosely feels like a reference to those stereotypical explorers that journey fearlessly into caves and the like, searching for adventure.)

7:40 After entering the Terminus Cave Pool, Squishy emits a telepathic long-range signal to Z-2. It speaks in the same voice as it did in the "Pikachu Dreams of Squishy" Episode:
Squishy: "Are you alright?"
Z2: "Yeah, I'm fine."
Squishy:"Then it's not a problem. Stay on the run." (Just before Satoshi and the other arrive)

The Team Flare grunts in the truck detect the signal and locate Squishy from it, then notify HQ. Once the signal reaches Z-2, they locate it as well and the other two scientists are sent after it. Perhaps this is the way Team Flare ends up finding Z-2 again so they can send Alain after it?

8:20 Meowth: "What exactly is Squishy?"

8:32 Celosia: "Aren't you late?
Byrony: "The path was problematic..."|"Let's hurry and go. Z-One is waiting."
Celosia: "Right."

9:27 Eureka: "Squishy, you're here, aren't you? Come out!" (Citron suggested maybe it had simply left, but Eureka insisted they should keep looking for it, and that she was sure it was there. Satoshi put his hand on her shoulder and said, "That's right." ["Dana" - Roughly directly translating as "That's how it is.", it's an affirmative toward what another person says.])

9:47 Byrony: "Boy and friends, don't move!"

10:01 Celosia: "That just now was a warning. The next one will hit!

11:26 Byrony: "Didn't we tell you not to move?!"

11:26 Onbat knows Tackle! Also took a hit from Kirikizan (I was worried it'd just be OHKO'd)

12:26 TR's still after Squishy even after all this? Way to have priorities, guys.

13:03 Satoshi: "Gekkouga, save Squishy!"

14:16 Celosia: "That's not just "Squishy", it's important for our Flare Gang's cause!"
Byrony: "That's enough!" (Said as if to suggest, "Stop talking. You've said too much.")

14:57 Squishy triggers a Percent Increase (not the official name, I'm just calling it that for now).

15:11 Celosia/Bryony/Team Flare Grunt (can't remember which) "Cells?! There're this many here?!"

15:42 Serena: "Inside Squishy?!"
Satoshi: "They combined!"
Citron: "Is this an evolution?!"

17:42 Celosia: "This is the end of the road for Gekkouga." (After hitting Gekkouga with Thunderbolt.)

18:05 Celosia: "Livolt, use Zap Cannon!"
(For what it's worth, the move it later uses to harm both Gekkouga and Satoshi is Scratch, same as Tairenar. It's also visually implied that Livolt gets distracted from Gekkouga because it senses Satoshi, as though it were facing two Pokemon at once. If this does later branch off into Satoshi and Gekkouga literally sharing points of view (as Koruni desired to do with Lucario, and a la Six Paths of Pain from Naruto), it'll be quite interesting. The pain sharing will also have interesting implications in terms of battling - if Satoshi ever uses Satoshi-Gekkouga and loses, he'll probably collapse. So he won't be able to use the transformation unless Gekkouga's either his last Pokemon, or he expects it to sweep. If he himself gets KO'd, presumably he'll lose the battle by default. May also play into his challenge against Alain. Would Alain attempt to defeat him knowing he'd inevitably KO a person as well? ....Either way, that Tough Claws Thunder Punch is going to hurt.)

18:50 Gekkouga uses Aerial Ace against Leopardes. So at this point it's confirmed to know Water Shuriken, Cut (from its clash with Livolt, if I recall correctly), and Aerial Ace. Presumably Water Shuriken replaced Water Pulse, so the last move remains Double Team.

18:57 Byrony: "We can't get any further like this."
Celosia: Livolt, Flash!"

19:37 Serena: "Satoshi, are you alright?!"
Citron: "That was...just like the Gekkouga from the Ninja Village, wasn't it?"
Satoshi: "Yeah".

20:05 Celosia/Byrony (Can't recall which): "Those trainers seem close to Z-1, so if we mark them they may lead us to it."
"Ah, I get it."
Team Rocket: "The brat boy's group, don't get in our way!" (*Falls off the cliff*).

20:45 The group considers letting Squishy stay on its own if that's what it wants, but Eureka protests, saying it's their friend and they promised they'd protect it. The preview for the next episode (in January, after the "Discover Everything" special on the 31st) seems to be about Squishy staying to itself whilst observing the group from afar, and making its decision as to what it thinks of them. Up to this point it was effectively using them to bring it to Terminus Cave and was solely focused on the task at hand. From this point on, it'll have to assess whether or not Satoshi and co. mean enough to it to stay with them, rather than try to completely stay in hiding. It seems Eureka is about to be hit by a move near the end, so presumably that's where Squishy makes its mind up. (In other words, this'll be a big character development episode for Z-1. It's good to see it's character fleshed out - a Legendary Pokemon necessarily has to try to distance itself from people in order to continue performing its duties. Squishy's aloofness is a consequence of it conceding to live a life of isolation, so as to protect the ecosystem. It's likely never had "friends" before, or simply disallowed itself from making any. This is kind of like an individual or pure logic learning what it means to feel concern and emotion for others.)

21:36 Xerosic: "Z-One and the Cells combined! "

21:48 Xerosic: "It's a matter of time."

 

[Navin]

Mal's Review-

Plotlines are developing!


Pros:

* "Zettai Akiremenai!" Based OP is based

* Bonnie kickin' up the emotions

* Ash being a bro to Bonnie

* Noibaby doing something!

* Luxray doing something! With the Batman-esque glowing eyes +1

* Flare have guns

* KEK, that blank TR response from Flare

* Gren-ninja being a ninja with the Squishy interception

* HOLY SH1T that Zydog kicked all their *****

* WTF?! Is this Digimon Tamers now?! Ash takes damage as well...


Cons:

* Yeah, we're Team Flare. GTFO of our way or face the wrath of our...Skorupi and Houndours...?!??

* Hey writers, remember Clemont's goal of courage? Why not take advantage of that here?! Make him do some of the heavy-lifting and not only Ash...

* Hey Flare, y'know those cool guns you have - why don't you fire them at the twerps?? Oh right, this show is for the kids


Thoughts:

* Yo Amourshippers, remember your hint of Ash holding his hand and helping Serena across a pond? Welp, he kinda ignored Serena and did that for Clemont today...

* Is it really safe to travel further into a cave when you have to crawl through it?

* So if 10% form can do that, Zard X better go crazy against 50%

* Guessing the next episode's plot is Squishy accepting the group, because otherwise that thing really doesn't seem to care all that much for them

* Guessing the fallout between Ash and the frog is over this physical connection (maybe Ash is too weak?). Though, please don't let this be the reason as to why Ash loses at the Kalos League

* Please don't rush and/or mess up this Flare arc


Based episode is based.

8-9/10

 

[Lucario At Service]

18:05 Celosia: "Livolt, use Zap Cannon!"

Wasn't it "Shock Wave"?

 

[dman_dustin]

Even if he learned to control it, I still think he would share Greninja`s pain when it transforms. That`s the price that comes with the connection

Personally, I like that they added it as it gives a consequence to this new power

right now I disagree.

I think its a side effect of not having the form mastered, once mastered Ash shouldn't have to feel the pain, otherwise the form wouldn't be worth it.

 

[Janovy]

I think its a side effect of not having the form mastered, once mastered Ash shouldn't have to feel the pain, otherwise the form wouldn't be worth it.

I absolutely disagree. The very form change seems to imply some sort of mental fusion.

I think the pain aspect makes the change a lot less convenient than Mega Evolution, but you are forgetting that Greninja is able to see things from Ash's perspective and vice-versa and Ash seemingly has control over Greninja's actions. So it has both its upsides and downsides. I'm happy because the pain aspect distinguishes it from being just a pseudo Mega Evolution without a Mega Stone.

So yeah, Ash and Greninja are mentally fused into one which gives them a lot more advantage over a typical Trainer/Pokemon duo who must act separately.

So this change isn't perfect. But it's not worthless either given all the benefits that come with it. And for me, that's what this kind of change should be like.

 

[dman_dustin]

I absolutely disagree. The very form change seems to imply some sort of mental fusion.

I think the pain aspect makes the change a lot less convenient than Mega Evolution, but you are forgetting that Greninja is able to see things from Ash's perspective and vice-versa and Ash seemingly has control over Greninja's actions. So it has both its upsides and downsides. I'm happy because the pain aspect distinguishes it from being just a pseudo Mega Evolution without a Mega Stone.

So yeah, Ash and Greninja are mentally fused into one which gives them a lot more advantage over a typical Trainer/Pokemon duo who must act separately.

So this change isn't perfect. But it's not worthless either given all the benefits that come with it. And for me, that's what this kind of change should be like.

It isn't worth it for ash Greninja to suffer major pain that nearly knocks it out Ash, and Ash not being a Pokemon, is knocked. I'd hate this form if people's speculation is true and he loses the league because of it.

Ash can't use Ash Greninja against a powerful Pokemon otherwise Ash would probably die from battling. I'm not looking forward to Ash being knocked out because of this effect when Ash Greninja loses to Mega Charizard X.

I can accept the pain factor only as a side effect of an unmastered form. Otherwise Ash was better off with a Mega Pokemon (Mega Greninja)..

 

[Akashin]

It isn't worth it for ash Greninja to suffer major pain that nearly knocks it out Ash, and Ash not being a Pokemon, is knocked. I'd hate this form if people's speculation is true and he loses the league because of it.

Ash can't use Ash Greninja against a powerful Pokemon otherwise Ash would probably die from battling. I'm not looking forward to Ash being knocked out because of this effect when Ash Greninja loses to Mega Charizard X.

I can accept the pain factor only as a side effect of an unmastered form. Otherwise Ash was better of with a Mega Pokemon.

It would make no sense for it to be a side effect like that. Like Janovy said, they seem to combine on a sort of mental level. They share sight, so sharing pain seems a relatively logical extension of that. And while we haven't seen it happen, I wouldn't be surprised if Ash outright ordering attacks is actually unnecessary in that form.

Claiming he'd die from it is downright silly. Assuming the pain he receives is equivalent to what Ash Greninja receives, it'd end at the two of them fainting simultaneously. I don't see him losing a match that way unless Ash Greninja is already his final Pokemon anyway, though.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

I think this shared-pain thing makes the point more obvious that Ash will use his ninja as a last resort if it makes Ash faint too.

Wouldn't want to faint during the middle of a 6-on-6!

 

[U.N. Owen]

I find the trade off pretty decent. Ash gets pain in exchange for a greater range of sight.

 

[dman_dustin]

It would make no sense for it to be a side effect like that. Like Janovy said, they seem to combine on a sort of mental level. They share sight, so sharing pain seems a relatively logical extension of that. And while we haven't seen it happen, I wouldn't be surprised if Ash outright ordering attacks is actually unnecessary in that form.

Claiming he'd die from it is downright silly. Assuming the pain he receives is equivalent to what Ash Greninja receives, it'd end at the two of them fainting simultaneously. I don't see him losing a match that way unless Ash Greninja is already his final Pokemon anyway, though.

Except that it does. there have been plenty of examples where abilities had nasty side effects until something happened or they were mastered and they only reaped the positive benefits.

The shared pain could be because of improper control, instead of the pain being contained within Ash Greninja it spills out over to Ash, indicating that when not used properly it has damaging side effects. "Handle with care" "Improper handling may result in death"

true you could argue that it would be unfair for Ash to be able to see from Greninja's perspective or vice versa but really what nasty side effect exists with Mega evolution? Or primal reversion.

And let's also bring Rayquaza into this, there is not even a remote negative side effect in regardw to it. I mean forcing it to have dragon ascent doesn't scream "BAD" to me.

Each evolution beyond evolutions should have their own quirks. Plus look at it from the game's perspective, none of these effects would translate into them outside of just having a synchro evolution.

But anime wise, synchro evolution coming at a cost that if not used properly damages the trainer, makes sense in the way it happens. But not when the form is fully mastered. when the form is mastered it should be if anything more like remote control rather than physically linked. That's the potential downside of not using stones.

But let's look at mega evolution, the side effect in game is no other items. considering Pokemon in the anime don't use items and require extra items for their mega stone, mega evolution would be superior to synchro evolution in spiten of needing a stone.

Because if the shared pain if permanent and not just a side effect of improper usage of the form. Then the trade off effects are too wide. Because not only does Ash have to worry about the battle, but he won't be able to think properly when Ash Greninja takes damage because he'll experience it as well.

Ash is good, but I doubt the constant physical stress that Ash would have to endure would allow him to battle properly. I don't think even seasoned trainers like E4 members and champions would be able to handle this side effect except maybe for trainers who physically train against their Pokemon at full force.

That's not good. Even in this episode Ash was distracted for like a second. A seasoned trainer would have noticed this and taken advantage, and the cumulative attacks would have caused Ash and Ash Greninja to lose.

 

[Red and Blue]

Ash is incredibley determined and resiliant. I doubt he would lead the pain caused by Greninja's transformation hinder him. In a way, it would give the upcoming challenges more tension

 

[Akashin]

~snip~

All I said was that it makes perfect sense that being able to share their sense of sight and being forced to share their sense of pain would be a package deal rather than an unfortunate side effect--though it is that as well, obviously--especially since they seem to reach a level of unison where even some of their movements are identical (them crouching in unison in the op, them collapsing at the same time and in the same manner in this episode).

Whether it's 'fair' that the side effects are more drastic than with Mega Evolution or Primal Reversion is entirely secondary to my point. And it remains to be seen if the pain would be as distracting for him in the future as it was here, when he didn't know it was coming.

 

[CupidKirby]

It isn't worth it for ash Greninja to suffer major pain that nearly knocks it out Ash, and Ash not being a Pokemon, is knocked. I'd hate this form if people's speculation is true and he loses the league because of it.

Ash can't use Ash Greninja against a powerful Pokemon otherwise Ash would probably die from battling. I'm not looking forward to Ash being knocked out because of this effect when Ash Greninja loses to Mega Charizard X.

I can accept the pain factor only as a side effect of an unmastered form. Otherwise Ash was better off with a Mega Pokemon (Mega Greninja)..

What I'm doing is looking at it from a writing perspective. The idea of Ash feeling Greninja's pain for now opens up potential for a lot more character progression for Ash than if he just got a normal mega Pokémon. It means that he also has to train himself mentally and physically alongside Greninja. Once Ash overcomes it, I'm fine with either the pain trait staying, or going away as you've said. But it would feel cheap for Ash to go through all that training just to not have to deal with it anymore. That may just be me.

* Yo Amourshippers, remember your hint of Ash holding his hand and helping Serena across a pond? Welp, he kinda ignored Serena and did that for Clemont today...

I laughed when that happened. Was it wrong to laugh?

 

[MegaSalamence05]

Now after Ash's Greninja being able to share its pain in Ash Greninja forme with Ash the thing that I demand to see is the Ocean Wave scene back when Ash was training for his rematch against Brawly during the Hoenn saga reintegrated in this setting. But since It only activates through battle for right now Greninja needs training partners. (Hello Talonflame, Pikachu, Hawlucha, and Noibat/Noivern) but really hone in on the mental aspect of the battle not the physical aspect of the battle. Similar to what Ash's Pikachu demonstrated back in the Furfrou episode (XY008) trusting Ash completely without being able to physically see.

With this special trait they've opened alot of avenues especially in character development for Ash as this is something not a single trainer has faced before. Actual physical damage done to themselves in a Pokemon Battle. How to overcome it, the mysteries still remain and that is something I'm 100% really looking forward to watch unfold

 

[Jangobadass]

I have a concern about when the episode is dubbed:

It's about the last scene with Xerosic and Lyandre. That's where the little PokeTV segments happen, and chances are pretty good those will be cut for time constraints alone, which puts this scene at risk. It's just that this scene is fairly important, but not sure how they'll work around it... <_<

 

[Hero of Truth]

I have a concern about when the episode is dubbed:

It's about the last scene with Xerosic and Lyandre. That's where the little PokeTV segments happen, and chances are pretty good those will be cut for time constraints alone, which puts this scene at risk. It's just that this scene is fairly important, but not sure how they'll work around it... <_<

The particular scene is part of the regular episode, so there's no need to worry about it being cut. There was no Poke TV segment for this episode I think.

Edit: Forget what I said, there WAS a Poke TV segment, but it focused on Luxray and its X-Ray vision ability.

 

[Jangobadass]

The particular scene is part of the regular episode, so there's no need to worry about it being cut. There was no Poke TV segment for this episode I think.

Edit: Forget what I said, there WAS a Poke TV segment, but it focused on Luxray and its X-Ray vision ability.

Oh okay. Didn't know that part.

Thanks. That takes a load off my mind

 

[Mrs. Oreo]

Finally saw the episode and I liked seeing Team flare act so aggressively plus Ash and friends finally seeing Squishy's 10% forme was nice. I'm just worried about the fact that Ash feel's Greninja's pain.

 

[LizardonX]

I'm amazed.

They refuse to show earthquake/magnitude out of triggering people but something like land's wrath which literally tears the ground open does get shown?

 

[Soaring Pikachu]

I think Squishy is in a tough position. It appears to want to stay with its human friends but doing so will probably put them into danger. Team flare being able to see through Squishys cloak (which none of Ash and companies pokemon could) also means that it will need to work extra hard to stay off of flares radar.