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Metroid Series Thread

Taodragon

Training Anaylst
I nearly jumped for joy when I saw the trailer last week, it hard to believe that a game that was almost an urban legend has finally become a reality. Personally I'm really looking forward to the horror aspects as that was one of my favorite parts of Fusion and what got me into the series in the first place, and I'm really curious to see how they handle the plot threads they've left hanging after both it and Returns.
 

Captain Jigglypuff

Leader of Jigglypuff Army
The robot chasing Samus reminds me a lot of GlaDOS if she ever took over control of a Turret. I’m wondering if Portal inspired that thing’s design?
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
So the biggest thing I'm wondering is what abilities will be in the game?

So far, we've seen the following:

Inherent Abilities:
Free Aim
Power Grip
Wall Jump
Slide
Melee Counter
Dash Melee

Powerups:
Missiles
Charge Beam
Omega Beam (temporary)
Morph Ball
Spring Ball
Spazer Beam
Spider Magnet

Aeion Abilities:
Phantom Cloak

Additionally, we've seen hints that Morph Ball Bombs and Varia Suit are in based on obstacles seen (possibly the Gravity Suit as well, but I have a niggling question about if the Gravity Suit will retain its immunity to lava, that's never really made much sense).

One of the biggest questions regarding powerups is will the Spider Ball return as a Morph Ball variant of the Spider Magnet, or does the Spider Magnet replace it completely? I could see some situations where you might need to cling to surfaces in narrow tunnels, but that might be a bit niche a utility.

Beyond that, I do think we'll see a lot of staple abilities from past 2D games make a return as well as some of the Aeion Abilities from Samus Returns, including the following:

Hi-Jump Boots
Super Missiles
Ice Beam
Scan Pulse
Wave Beam
Plasma Beam
Space Jump
Phase Drift (I'd prefer the Speed Booster, but I have a feeling they want Phase Drift to prevent sequence breaking via Shinespark)
Power Bombs
Screw Attack

I'm about 50/50 on the Grapple Beam, Lightning Armor, and Beam Burst returning too. They could stay, they have enough utility to do so, but they could also create new abilities to replace them or decide they're not essential.

There's probably going to be more new ones, but I can't think of any ideas for further new abilities ATM.
 

KillerDraco

Well-Known Member
Well, I beat Metroid Dread today. Mind you, I was actively rushing through the main objectives so that I could spare myself of any spoilers. I ended with only 37% completion, so there's definitely a lot more for me to explore and discover.
 

Auraninja

Eh, ragazzo!
I just beat the game today with 47% item completion. I found the games plot points very interesting.

I want to go back to Aria of Sorrow now, so the 100% item completion will have to wait, I guess.
 
Just beat the first Robot Chozo and this game is indeed much harder than Super Metroid, Fusion or anything from the Prime Series but so far I like it.

Just annoyed by the EMMI though. I get it, they're supposed to be scary but with their instakill thing they're just annoying instead of scary. Would've preferred if they were just really OP like the SA-X instead of just instakilling you on contact.

But aside from that, it's a great game, story is awesome so far, controls are really fluid and it looks absolutely stunning.
 

Taodragon

Training Anaylst
Beat the game a couple days ago, I haven't 100% it yet, but it's already one of my favorite games in the franchise.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
I've 100%ed the game and I'm feeling like the game is slightly overrated. It's not a bad game by any means, it's just... way too railroady. Sure, there's a couple of neat sequence break tips, but in general if you play the game the way it was intended to be played, the game doesn't seem like it's designed with sequence breaking in mind (with one notable exception with
a secret way to beat Kraid if you get the Bombs early
. Other than that, they seem to be intent on preventing sequence breaking as much as possible, forcing you to go in a certain direction and even preventing you from backtracking without using complex tricks. I loathe how everyone is comparing this to Super, Super was never this restrictive. And while I'm not too big on Super (it's fairly plain and there's nothing that's really unique about it gameplay wise), I'd honestly prefer Super to this, at least in terms of map design (gameplay wise I will concede there are lots of unique aspects and improvements, but Super's maps are definitely superior).

Also, the storyline, especially as a sequel to Fusion, is confusing at best and downright contradictory at worst. There's a lot of instances where it feels like they've never even played Fusion and don't really understand its plot.

First of all, at the end of Fusion, Samus disobeyed the Federation who wanted her to stay put and let them capture the X, but instead she destroyed the B.S.L. and SR388 because she knew the X would absorb them and take over the galaxy if the Federation had their way. Adam and Samus both figured that she would be court martialled for her actions on the B.S.L. and we all assumed Samus would end up an enemy of the Federation, possibly even a fugitive. Yet somehow things are hunky dory enough between Samus and the Federation that they would ask her to go to ZDR in Dread? Now maybe the Federation didn't have much choice because she was the only one immune to the X Parasites, but this was never addressed or mentioned, it's just "LOL welp, business as usual".

Second, there's the issue of Samus being a Metroid. Sakomoto mentioned in an interview once that at the end of Fusion, when Samus absorbed one of the SA-X, that reset her genetic condition. Yet now in Dread she's still a Metroid? Isn't that a contradiction? I do like the idea of Samus being a Metroid, it opens up a lot for gameplay and storyline purposes and we saw a taste of this in Dread, but this is definitely confusing.

Then later we find out that the X are indeed still alive and locked up in Elun, but Samus accidentally releases them. How did Raven Beak manage to contain them to just this one vault when they spread exponentially like a virus, and why didn't they spread across the universe when released? Releasing the X from Elun seems like it should be game over for the universe, but somehow it's only isolated to ZDR.

Lastly, there's Quiet Robe-X's actions at the end of the game. He suddenly appears in Samus' ship as she's escaping, allowing her to absorb him and revert from her Metroid Suit to escape ZDR. Why did he do this? If Samus is his enemy (which we presume because he's an X and Samus is a Metroid), wouldn't it be better for QR-X to just let Samus die on ZDR where she can't hunt any further Metroids that might still be hiding somewhere in the galaxy? His motivations are somewhat confusing, he's an X but he actually helps her for reasons that don't seem to benefit the X.

This is definitely a good game, but I wouldn't consider it a top tier Metroid game. It's just not as free as Super was, and I think a true successor to Super that would surpass it would be designed so it has an intended order but could be completed by collecting powerups in any order with the use of simpler Wall Jump and Shinespark tricks.
 

Taodragon

Training Anaylst
I've 100%ed the game and I'm feeling like the game is slightly overrated. It's not a bad game by any means, it's just... way too railroady. Sure, there's a couple of neat sequence break tips, but in general if you play the game the way it was intended to be played, the game doesn't seem like it's designed with sequence breaking in mind (with one notable exception with
a secret way to beat Kraid if you get the Bombs early
. Other than that, they seem to be intent on preventing sequence breaking as much as possible, forcing you to go in a certain direction and even preventing you from backtracking without using complex tricks. I loathe how everyone is comparing this to Super, Super was never this restrictive. And while I'm not too big on Super (it's fairly plain and there's nothing that's really unique about it gameplay wise), I'd honestly prefer Super to this, at least in terms of map design (gameplay wise I will concede there are lots of unique aspects and improvements, but Super's maps are definitely superior).

From what I've seen, I'd say the opposite. The game is deceptively linear in that it nudges you along a path that you can clearly follow to get to where you need to go next (likely done for newer players), but there are ways to break free of the path and get things in a different order. There's one example that comes to mind that involves getting the Gravity Suit for instance and there have been other cases similar to that. I won't say if it's Super's level of freedom yet as I haven't experimented too much myself, but I disagree with it being railroady as there's a number of alternate means to tackle the game that people are figuring out.

Also, the storyline, especially as a sequel to Fusion, is confusing at best and downright contradictory at worst. There's a lot of instances where it feels like they've never even played Fusion and don't really understand its plot.

First of all, at the end of Fusion, Samus disobeyed the Federation who wanted her to stay put and let them capture the X, but instead she destroyed the B.S.L. and SR388 because she knew the X would absorb them and take over the galaxy if the Federation had their way. Adam and Samus both figured that she would be court martialled for her actions on the B.S.L. and we all assumed Samus would end up an enemy of the Federation, possibly even a fugitive. Yet somehow things are hunky dory enough between Samus and the Federation that they would ask her to go to ZDR in Dread? Now maybe the Federation didn't have much choice because she was the only one immune to the X Parasites, but this was never addressed or mentioned, it's just "LOL welp, business as usual".

Second, there's the issue of Samus being a Metroid. Sakomoto mentioned in an interview once that at the end of Fusion, when Samus absorbed one of the SA-X, that reset her genetic condition. Yet now in Dread she's still a Metroid? Isn't that a contradiction? I do like the idea of Samus being a Metroid, it opens up a lot for gameplay and storyline purposes and we saw a taste of this in Dread, but this is definitely confusing.

Then later we find out that the X are indeed still alive and locked up in Elun, but Samus accidentally releases them. How did Raven Beak manage to contain them to just this one vault when they spread exponentially like a virus, and why didn't they spread across the universe when released? Releasing the X from Elun seems like it should be game over for the universe, but somehow it's only isolated to ZDR.

Lastly, there's Quiet Robe-X's actions at the end of the game. He suddenly appears in Samus' ship as she's escaping, allowing her to absorb him and revert from her Metroid Suit to escape ZDR. Why did he do this? If Samus is his enemy (which we presume because he's an X and Samus is a Metroid), wouldn't it be better for QR-X to just let Samus die on ZDR where she can't hunt any further Metroids that might still be hiding somewhere in the galaxy? His motivations are somewhat confusing, he's an X but he actually helps her for reasons that don't seem to benefit the X.
I'll answer these in order:

1) This is actually an unfortunate localization flub. In the Japanese version it wasn't the Federation as a whole, but a rogue faction acting on their own accord. So her disobeying orders is only restricted to that subset of the Federation, the rest still hold her in very high regard

2) Not too surprising. It wasn't mentioned outright in Fusion so it was easy to ignore, and as you said there were far more opportunities and storylines they could do with her keeping the DNA then without. I would say it's less confusing and more the writers going in a different direction, and luckily it was not already established in the games so it was easy to shift things around.

3) It's outright stated that Raven Beak released them himself, and it's heavily implied it was to be a means to push Samus further to activate her Metroid DNA. We also know that X can't travel through space without outside means as it took Samus' infected suit being transported to get to the BSL Station (despite it orbiting SR388), and the Chozo soldier getting infected to get over to ZDR, so as long as no one took the X with them off the planet they were isolated to it.

Edit: Also to add we know the X can't freely roam if they're locked off. In Fusion they don't spread to other sectors until Samus unlocks the doors that allows them to access those areas. Elun is probably similar, Raven Beak locked off the area and that protected the rest of the planet (and himself as he was on the ship).

4) I feel this is intentionally an open ended question. Is the X acting on its own accord? Is Quiet Robe influencing the X via his memory and emotions? We don't have a concrete answer. It's similar to the SA-X in that regard since it could've killed Samus at the end of Fusion but prioritized the Omega Metroid, and for what reason that was could be simply targeting the bigger threat or protecting Samus from that threat. We don't know for certain, we only have our own guesses on the situation.

This is definitely a good game, but I wouldn't consider it a top tier Metroid game. It's just not as free as Super was, and I think a true successor to Super that would surpass it would be designed so it has an intended order but could be completed by collecting powerups in any order with the use of simpler Wall Jump and Shinespark tricks.

Shinespark has actually been a crucial tool to speedrunners so far, even in terms of bosses since you can do massive damage if not outright kill them.
 
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Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
From what I've seen, I'd say the opposite. The game is deceptively linear in that it nudges you along a path that you can clearly follow to get to where you need to go next (likely done for newer players), but there are ways to break free of the path and get things in a different order. There's one example that comes to mind that involves getting the Gravity Suit for instance and there have been other cases similar to that. I won't say if it's Super's level of freedom yet as I haven't experimented too much myself, but I disagree with it being railroady as there's a number of alternate means to tackle the game that people are figuring out.

That's the thing though, Super wasn't quite like that. For the most part there weren't really instances where you were restricted from backtracking (the sole exceptions being about a third of the way through the game you're trapped in Lower Brinstar and Norfair for the next 4 powerups, and a curious point of no return at the end of the game in Tourian). And most of the sequencing breaking in Super tends to be on the simpler side, like "Wall Jump up this tall cavern" or "run and do a Shinespark across this large gap", Dread's sequence breaks are more involved and require you to be much more clever with your Wall Jumping and Shinesparking to go where you're not supposed to go.

1) This is actually an unfortunate localization flub. In the Japanese version it wasn't the Federation as a whole, but a rogue faction acting on their own accord. So her disobeying orders is only restricted to that subset of the Federation, the rest still hold her in very high regard

I assumed that to some degree anyway, and it doesn't really matter. The point is that we don't really see any of that dealt with in Dread's storyline when that was a key plot point in Fusion's ending, so for us to start out Dread not acknowledging any of that whatsoever is very confusing.
 

Taodragon

Training Anaylst
That's the thing though, Super wasn't quite like that. For the most part there weren't really instances where you were restricted from backtracking (the sole exceptions being about a third of the way through the game you're trapped in Lower Brinstar and Norfair for the next 4 powerups, and a curious point of no return at the end of the game in Tourian). And most of the sequencing breaking in Super tends to be on the simpler side, like "Wall Jump up this tall cavern" or "run and do a Shinespark across this large gap", Dread's sequence breaks are more involved and require you to be much more clever with your Wall Jumping and Shinesparking to go where you're not supposed to go.
That's still far less railroady then what you implied previously though. It may be more involved, but you still are allowed to go off the beaten path and find your own way of getting items and powerups, and you're even rewarded for doing so considering you have things like the Bomb Kraid kill. That's something we haven't seen since Super and a level of freedom that should still be greatly appreciated, especially since most of the past few Metroid games have been linear with very few breaks from the path.

I assumed that to some degree anyway, and it doesn't really matter. The point is that we don't really see any of that dealt with in Dread's storyline when that was a key plot point in Fusion's ending, so for us to start out Dread not acknowledging any of that whatsoever is very confusing.
Other M also touched on it (regardless of its lack of popularity), and both it and Fusion had their Metroid Program blown to bits, so it doesn't need to be immediately focused on as the threat of it is very limited in its current state. It can also be focused on at a different time with a different plotline, whereas there's not much they can contribute to the Metroid arc with their work related to them up in smoke twice over and without it being redundant.

Plus Dread's storyline probably wanted to focus on a different facet of the Metroids. We know very little of their origins so they chose to explore that option to help conclude their focus, which was not an angle that the Federation faction could really explore.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
That's still far less railroady then what you implied previously though. It may be more involved, but you still are allowed to go off the beaten path and find your own way of getting items and powerups, and you're even rewarded for doing so considering you have things like the Bomb Kraid kill. That's something we haven't seen since Super and a level of freedom that should still be greatly appreciated, especially since most of the past few Metroid games have been linear with very few breaks from the path.

Not really. I said it was railroady and you don't get that level of freedom without using sequence break tips, and that is consistent with what I just said.

Also Bomb Kraid is the exception, not the rule. I wouldn't take that one instance as proof that they really care that much when the rest of the game's design tells a very different story.

Other M also touched on it (regardless of its lack of popularity), and both it and Fusion had their Metroid Program blown to bits, so it doesn't need to be immediately focused on as the threat of it is very limited in its current state. It can also be focused on at a different time with a different plotline, whereas there's not much they can contribute to the Metroid arc with their work related to them up in smoke twice over and without it being redundant.

Plus Dread's storyline probably wanted to focus on a different facet of the Metroids. We know very little of their origins so they chose to explore that option to help conclude their focus, which was not an angle that the Federation faction could really explore.

No, I understand why it wasn't the focus of the storyline, but they could've at least added a quick line confirming Samus' status with the GF (saying something like "We know the Federation hasn't been too happy with us, but you're the only one who can go against the X-parasites" or something similar would've gone a long way here). Completely ignoring that plotline with that matter hanging over Samus' head feels weird.
 

bobjr

You ask too many questions
Staff member
Moderator
Samus got trolled on space Tiktok.

Also while Super Metroid things are a little less linear and some things are more hidden, I'd argue some of it is a little too hidden, or it's more backtracky than it should be. Dread feels like what a modern Super should be to me.
 

Taodragon

Training Anaylst
Not really. I said it was railroady and you don't get that level of freedom without using sequence break tips, and that is consistent with what I just said.

Also Bomb Kraid is the exception, not the rule. I wouldn't take that one instance as proof that they really care that much when the rest of the game's design tells a very different story.

Why are the 'Sequence Break tips' such a sticking point that the game has to be considered railroady? It's not like it's a glitch that was unintentional or something you have to completely break the game to do, they're options available to the player that they can abuse and using that gets you to go off and do things on your own terms. Super will always be a special game for how it did things, but the way Dread is doing things is still a great follow-up to its ideology while still allowing newer players a clear roadmap to do things that they need to progress.

Also, even ignoring Kraid there are still options like Shinespark that are designed with a clear focus on allowing the player to have more options to do what they want. For instance, we weren't able to keep momentum out of a wall jump before this game, yet that's an option here and one that is very useful for speedrunning and finding new paths.

No, I understand why it wasn't the focus of the storyline, but they could've at least added a quick line confirming Samus' status with the GF (saying something like "We know the Federation hasn't been too happy with us, but you're the only one who can go against the X-parasites" or something similar would've gone a long way here). Completely ignoring that plotline with that matter hanging over Samus' head feels weird.
I feel that would've been unsatisfying if they did it that way. It's a very particular faction of the Federation we're talking about so I feel more depth would've been wanted to address what's going on with them. They could've done a cutscene at the beginning addressing it, but then it could've taken away from the current storyline as they're completely unrelated and a lack of acknowledgement following that cutscene would've stuck out even more.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
Why are the 'Sequence Break tips' such a sticking point that the game has to be considered railroady? It's not like it's a glitch that was unintentional or something you have to completely break the game to do, they're options available to the player that they can abuse and using that gets you to go off and do things on your own terms. Super will always be a special game for how it did things, but the way Dread is doing things is still a great follow-up to its ideology while still allowing newer players a clear roadmap to do things that they need to progress.

Also, even ignoring Kraid there are still options like Shinespark that are designed with a clear focus on allowing the player to have more options to do what they want. For instance, we weren't able to keep momentum out of a wall jump before this game, yet that's an option here and one that is very useful for speedrunning and finding new paths.

Because I don't want to have to need a PhD in physics and lightning fast reflexes to be able to go exploring on my own terms? Most of these tricks require you to perform a complex series of actions with near perfect timing, making the skill level required to do so fairly high. There's something to be said for challenging the player's skills, but if they wanted the ability to venture off the beaten path to be an important part of the gameplay it should be accessible to the point where it's not insanely difficult to figure out. It's fine to do that for expansions which are bonuses for the player, but not as much for the core progression in the game. Otherwise, if they're not willing to prioritize the ability to do so to that degree, then most players aren't going to be able to experience the game that way so you can only judge it based on the intended progression.
 

Taodragon

Training Anaylst
Because I don't want to have to need a PhD in physics and lightning fast reflexes to be able to go exploring on my own terms? Most of these tricks require you to perform a complex series of actions with near perfect timing, making the skill level required to do so fairly high. There's something to be said for challenging the player's skills, but if they wanted the ability to venture off the beaten path to be an important part of the gameplay it should be accessible to the point where it's not insanely difficult to figure out. It's fine to do that for expansions which are bonuses for the player, but not as much for the core progression in the game. Otherwise, if they're not willing to prioritize the ability to do so to that degree, then most players aren't going to be able to experience the game that way so you can only judge it based on the intended progression.
I can see how examples like the Phantom Cloak skip could be too demanding, but cases like the Gravity Suit skip just requires some knowledge of Shinesparking or Bomb Jump and are not really anymore complicated then the game's actual related puzzles. Additionally people are still cracking the game and finding more ways around it, so some paths that may seem too complicated now could become much more simpler as time goes on.

Really, it's that experimentation that many people are enjoying right now.
 

Bolt the Cat

Bringing the Thunder
I can see how examples like the Phantom Cloak skip could be too demanding, but cases like the Gravity Suit skip just requires some knowledge of Shinesparking or Bomb Jump and are not really anymore complicated then the game's actual related puzzles. Additionally people are still cracking the game and finding more ways around it, so some paths that may seem too complicated now could become much more simpler as time goes on.

Really, it's that experimentation that many people are enjoying right now.

Maybe for the expansions, yeah, but again it makes more sense to challenge you to experiment more for bonus collectibles. Not so much for regular old progression. And if there were really simpler ways that didn't require more complex strategies and/or high levels of skill and timing in their jumps and Shinesparks, they'd have found it by now.
 
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