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Milotic: The champion of OU

Please rate my team on a scale of 10.

  • 1.

    Votes: 9 20.0%
  • 2.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 3.

    Votes: 2 4.4%
  • 4.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 5.

    Votes: 5 11.1%
  • 6.

    Votes: 1 2.2%
  • 7.

    Votes: 3 6.7%
  • 8.

    Votes: 11 24.4%
  • 9.

    Votes: 8 17.8%
  • 10.

    Votes: 6 13.3%

  • Total voters
Not open for further replies.
The top 20 on Shoddy OU is a little difficult if you're committed to using Milotic- if it wasn't for Garchomp, I wouldn't have been able to crack that high. Getting that high without a team that works with defensive synergy requires either excessive dual-screen + set up or Rain Dance.

As for a Togekiss Ev spread, examine what you need it to do most of all. In terms of Pokemon that would stop a sweep, Tyranitar is most troublesome. You don't have a proper counter for him- every switch you make is costly since you have no good switch-ins- only Flygon can come in on Stone Edge, and it won't survive a CB Crunch or the equivalent Pursuit (which prevents you from scouting the switch with U-Turn because it hits before, causing you to become predictable). But basically all you need to do is be able to outspeed and OHKO with +2 Aura Sphere on the most special defensive (CB) Tyranitar. This requires 652 SAtk, meaning 326 before a boost. From here, we can tentatively place these Ev's into Satk (a total of 200 Ev's).

Since you are running SubSalac, you are aiming to outrun Jolteon and Zapdos, the other main problem Pokemon as well. This requires at least 264 Spe, which means that a Timid nature must be used in conjunction with 176 Ev's.

At this point, we (tentatively) have 132 Ev's left. There isn't much point in investing in speed, since it is unnecessary to outspeed Adamant (Crunch) Lucario and after the Salac Berry, there isn't much else to outspeed other than Scarf Heatran. Timid Scarf Rotom cannot be outsped either, unfortunately. So the rest should be invested in either Satk or the defenses. In this case, the defenses are more noteworthy simply because the small investment is enough to make a large difference against other potential Togekiss counters.

Attempting to survive a revenge killing priority move isn't viable here, since Togekiss's Sub will break to Scizor's Bullet Punch in every form. One of the better objectives to aim for is to survive bulky Zapdos Thunderbolt with 75%. Coincidentally, this requires all of our investment, mostly in SDef (not due to a guiding philosophy- if all else fails, put it in Hp) because the damage formula prefers a higher SDef when taking many multiplier after the +2 stage into effect (i.e. STAB, SE multiplier, LO, etc. Technically the hit-weathering ability is the same, but due to rounding being more imprecise when dealing with a lower damage number, there is a more discernable advantage). The optimal HP point that you could reach is 320- creates 4 Substitutes and SR can be used to your advantage, since it doesn't mess up the activation of Salac Berry. This warrants the use of 36 Ev's; the remaining 96 must be put in SDef. With these changes in mind, Bulky Zapdos cannot OHKO after SR unless it crits or hits for absolute maximum damage, allowing you to use Substitute and Air Slash away in the ideal case that the opponent has not set up SR. Zapdos will be hard-pressed to win in this situation, since Nasty Plot boosted Air Slash is nearly guaranteed a 3HKO after SR on 252 HP Zapdos.

To sum it up, use Timid: 36 Hp / 200 SAtk / 96 SDef / 176 Spe. It OHKO's every Tyranitar with +2 Aura Sphere and 3HKOs Zapdos with +2 Air Slash, both after SR; it outspeeds Jolly Breloom, Tyranitar, and Adamant Gyarados before a boost, and Jolteon, as well as several other (slower) Pokemon after the Salac Berry has activated. It has an HP number divisible by 4, allowing only 3 Substitutes to be made and can survive the Zapdos Thunderbolt after SR, or from full health and continue to set up a Substitute.

As for the rest of the team, there are several weaknesses that must be dealt with. At a glance, Tyranitar and Lucario are not checked sufficiently- Tyranitar can more or less slide since for all the damage he can cause, he also has trouble coming in. Opposing Salamence are not dealt with sufficiently, and with most teams without an extremely bulky water or floating steel, you are quite Mamoswine weak. Having a Life Orb Scizor without recovery does not fix this issue at all, since revenge killing without trapping is never a sufficient answer to anything that doesn't need to boost stats to break through teams. Defensively speaking, the rest of your team doesn't do much for Togekiss, seeing as it fails to stop Resttalk WoW Rotom (which can outstall your Flygon after crippling it). Scizor also loses against it regardless of whether it has recovery or even Overheat.

To patch these issues, you could run Roost over Outrage on Salamence and Brick Break over EQ. This deals with Tyranitar better (Earthquake does not OHKO without large investment) and Blissey just as easily while allowing you to come in repeatedly on Lucario and Scizor. I'd also suggest ditching Scizor as a sweeper and instead running a support set with the moveset Pursuit / U-Turn / Roost / Bullet Punch. The spread 240 HP / 56 Atk / 212 SDef with Adamant has been proven very successful with dealing with boosted Draco Meteors during Latios testing, and I analyzed it a while ago and found the investments worthy of the current metagame. If you desire something else, I'm sure another rater has a decent Scizor set. Pursuit is really a filler slot- Brick Break can be used there effectively as well.

Finally, your Milotic doesn't need quite as much speed. Rather, try running Modest, which helps you guarantee an OHKO on Scizor and standard Ttar after SR. You can reduce the speed investment to 52 Ev's, which beats SubPetaya Empoleon before an Agility, no speed Rotom, Suicune, and Cresselia, each of which are decent aspirations due to the performance of the rest of your team against them. The rest should go in HP to take boosted hits from Gyarados more effectively.

As for fitting in a phazer and status absorber into your team, it's not going to realistically work unless you choose to run Resttalk Roar Gyarados over your Milotic (which I realize wouldn't happen). But it is good to acknowledge that doing this would fix your Lucario and Mamoswine issues. Plus, dual U-Turn into dual Intimidate is the groundwork for a very dangerous defensive combination. Fitting a phazer into your team is a lot easier though- it's possible to run Roar / Roost / Draco Meteor / Flamethrower on Salamence. It still annihilates all but the most dangerous special walls, and in lieu of defeating foes with the proper physical move, you instead Roar them out, racking up SR damage and making it easier to break through the opponent. This is even more so because good special walls are rarely SR resistant, and those that are can't stand up to Salamence with Draco Meteor + Flamethrower. This would be accompanied by a bulkier, slower spread that is more adept at taking on Lucario. Of course, you could run Roar + SR Swampert as your lead.

The team is decent, but the idea behind it isn't executed as well as it could be. This is mainly due to your use of Milotic, which works poorly with Togekiss in a defensive manner. As such, I gave it a 5. However, this is a lot better than what many other teams around here would score.

-ZOMFG= zomm-ff-guh, Used as a statement of supprise or amazement. Also usable when Kingdrom makes posts akin to those of th OP, only in more detail.

Does any more need to be said?

Gren Draco

Kingdrom gives you a wall of text and you give him two lines of a response?

My thoughts exactly. Seriously that rate was wayyyyyyyyy long, and you sound like you just skimmed through it and took nothing into account.

Seriously, AquaMilotic, why bother posting this? Personally i'm all for using a favourite pokemon. I've posted a team with my favourite pokemon in and said i won't change it, but i would change anything about the pokemon itself.
Seriously you're just going to make another shit long flame thread, like last time.
Except last time it was only milotic, and now it's two pokemon who you refuse to change the movesets on. Effectively we are rating a team of 4 pokemon, which is against the rules to post.
And seriously Specsmilotic is a pile of crap. Vapporeon is better spec'd and gets access to more or less the same movepool bar dragon pulse, which isn't that useful anyway.
Subtogekiss must've been done a million times over, even i've thought of giving togekiss subplot before, and i never bother thnking up new movesets. As KMR said, you cna't copyright a pokemon.
I read the whole rate, told what I changed. I will tell the results when I tested enough. I am willing to replace Togekiss and change Milotics set if it gives me a top-tier team able to reach the top 20 on the leaderboard. Then I will change my team. Then I don't care about Togekiss anymore. I am willing to change Milotics set, as long as I can keep Milotic in the team. And if you think that way, test SpecsTic. Your opinion will change. About changing, I posted that before in this thread. This is not a flame thread. The only thing that really matters is keeping Milotic. This team is better than my other team from my other RMT. I just want it as good as possible with Milotic and preferably (not nessecary) SubPlotSalacKiss. I will change the OP.

I am unwilling to take Milotic out of the team, but willing to change its set.
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I am actually going to have to disagree with Kingdrom's spread for your Togekiss. Not only is SubKiss really best as a Passer variant, but really you are missing a lot of power that you could use. Perhaps: 84 HP/ 248 Special Attack/ 176 Speed so you have far more attacking prowess and HP is still divisble by 4. Since Zapdos simply slaughters your team and Kingdrom points out you will be stalled to death by any Roost variant I don't see the point of having the switching ability on it. Really you just need something that will slaughter Zapdos or atleast stall it down time and time again.

Switching Scizor for...

Careful, Thick Fat
204 HP/ 88 Attack/ 216 Special Defense
- Pursuit
- Body Slam
- Fire Punch/Earthquake/Screech
- Rest
Snorlax is a far more effective special sponger than Scizor and can Pursuit just the same. Body Slam deals with stopping most sweepers dead in their tracks and forcing the switch. Fire Punch/EQ for coverage if need be and Screech for even more pain on the switch out. Rest for recovery. You miss out on priority however, which I'm sure you're aware of so you may want to look into another user.
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Since you gave us, the raters, the green light to change Togekiss, I'll get rid of it and use the slot to cover weaknesess your team currently has.

This team is mixed Infernape weak. Very weak. MixApe beats all your team but Flygon who isn't able to switch in.

To patch up this weakness (and add some special bulk to this tean) we'll add Latias to the team. Choice Specs Latias to be more specific. Choice Specs Latias is obsenely powerful. I mean, a Draco Meteor does around 60% to Magnezone. That's crazy. So yeah, this will add some immediate power to the team. Or, if you prefer, you may use Calm Mind Latias. Calm Mind Latias would fill Togekiss' slot better (better being more alike, since it is a set-up sweeper), but Choice Specs Latias, as I said before, is very powerful. I think you'll go with Calm Mind Latias because if you go with Choice Specs Latias, Milotic would need a set change. I just prefer Choice Specs Latias xD.

Here's Latias' set (assuming you go with Calm Mind):

Latias @ Leftovers
Timid (+Spe, -Att)
Ev's in description
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Surf
- Recover

Calm Mind Latias, even though I don't prefer it over Choice Specs Latias, has it advantages over Choice Specs Latias. The main one, other than the ability to switch attacks, is that you can run a bulky set without losing too much power (since you can boost multiple times). We will capitalize on that advantage by using a bulky spread. The moves are self-explanatory really. Dragon Pulse is your STAB move. Surf is used to hit the aforementioned Infernape and in conjunction with Dragon Pulse hit all OU but Empoleon and Shedinja. Calm Mind and Recover calms your mind (xD) and recover health respectively. Choose one of these spreads as they fit your playing style:

  • 140 Hp/ 188 Sp.A/ 180 Spe - This spread outruns standard Infernape and therefore the positive base 100. The Hp reaches an optimal Leftovers recovery point. Is decently powerful, too.

    204 Hp/ 124 Sp.A/ 180 Spe - This is basically a bulkier, albeit less powerful variation of the previous spread. The Hp reaches an optimal Leftovers recovery point and the Spe outruns standard Infernape and therefore the positive base 100.

    76 Hp/ 192 Sp.A/ 240 Spe - This is the most powerful and fastest of the spreads. The Spe outruns max Spe Infernape -the most Latias should Ev to outrun- and the Hp reaches an optimal Leftovers recovery point.

    140 Hp/ 128 Sp.A/ 240 Spe - This set is fast and reasonably bulky, but less powerful than all the spreads except for the "all-out bulky". You should know what the Hp and Spe does by now.

Sorry I didn't rate before. Good luck with your team.
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Thank you all for the rates.

I tested Kingdroms suggestions for 20 battles, I won 12 and I lost 8 (the ones I said I would use after his post). This means my own version had more succes, but I still make changes.

My team appreciates the bulk, but its speed lets me down. I get Taunted by almost anything, so there's no SR. A lot of Milotics OHKOs are based on SR. Azelf is more important to the team, so I think I change back to Azelf, but a Dual Screen Azelf. T-Tar can be revenge killed by Scizor, Flygon and Milotic. Salamence doesn't like Scizor as long as Scizor doesn't switch in on a Fire move.

I hardly needed Brick Break, the lack of a good physical move wasn't very nice. However, Roost was very nice to have. I think I will replace Brick Break by either EQ or Outrage.

The lack of SD hurts. The bulk was nice, but I think there is something between our sets. A bulkier SDer. Roost/BP/BB/SD with either Life Orb or Leftovers. Now I need a spread. I found this one on Smogon, on the forum: 248 HP/ 80 Atk/ 4 Spe/ 176 SpD.

Nothing to change, works fine, it is exactly the same as when I built the team.

The bulk helped me to keep Subs that would otherwise be broken, however, Togekiss will be replaced by CM Latias (JRCxyz suggested it). Pure offense is more my playstyle, but my team needs bulk, this Latias is a good mix between speed, power and bulk. Latias also solves my Zapdos problems. Maybe you could build a team around SubKiss with your spread to popularize it, you don't need Milotic and I need Milotic, Kingdrom.

I tested having more bulk. The speed ties with/outspeeding Gyarados was too nice to sacrifice. I will go back to Timid 252/252. Milotics speed was very useful.

I won't replace Scizor by Snorlax, it's my only Dragon resist. I have three weaks because I add Latias. JRCxyz, thanks for the suggestion.

I will do some testing and I will update the OP when I am done.

Asked Shining Mew to change the title. It happened. I will test before I update the OP.
JRCxyz, Latias didn't go well. My most succesfull version was my own old one. I will still make changes to that one, but I will go back to my original team and do some more changes myself. I will still like rates, I will test them, but I just want to say it to let raters know, however, I changed some sets. I still aprocciate good rates, I will test everything except for stupid suggestions (like: "Use Magikarp over Salamence."). But if it doesn't work, I will go back to what I had before, maybe changing sets to cover problems the suggestions covered when possible.

My team consists of.

Dual Screen Azelf
To give my team 'bulk'.

My version was nice. Then no Roost, but good, my original team worked just fine

Bulky SD Scizor
248 HP/252 Atk/8 Spe. Leftovers over Life Orb, Brick Break over Superpower, Roost over X-Scissor.

Fine, like I used from the start.

I will use 252/252, this slot is open for raters to counter/check trouble Pokemon.

Specs, I used it with great succes, Timid 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe works better than bulky spreads, I tested it.

I will test these sets and update the OP when I am done.
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There are flaws in the way you handle Latias, Rotom-A, and, partly, Scizor.

Latias - In your threat list you say you have Salamence's Outrage to OHKO Latias, however, that's not viable way take care of Latias. Latias will always outspeed Salamence (unless it runs less than 176 Spe Ev's with a Timid nature, but you know what I mean; you can't count on that).

Rotom-A - "Flygon counters it nicely". I have two words for that statement: hell no (I just like saying hell no :p. People from chat will get it.). The thing is that with Will-o-Wisp, Flygon's Outrage becomes a 4HKO. And even worst, you get locked with a halfed attack Flygon. Same goes to Scizor, except you are OHKO'd by Overheat. That's simply not the way to handle it. Salamence is a nice way but being at -2 Sp.A and -2 Att isn't fun (I know from experience x_x). The best way is to switch Milotic into the Will-o-Wisp (activating Marvel Scale) and bomb him with Hydro Pump. Latias is also ok but not as effective as Milotic. This is mainly because this Latias, unlike Choice Specs Latias ;), should not take status; Calm Mind Latias needs set-up and therefore will stay on the field longer than a Choice item user (like Milotic) and would suffer from status affliction more. This is even worst for Latias not only because of the set-up but because this isn't Offensive Latias and appreciates the extra Hp - utilizes Recover better without status, too.

Scizor - You seem to only take Swords Dance Scizor into consideration when planning on beating opposing Scizor. You should remember Choice Band Scizor is more common than his Swords Dance cousin. Take that into consideration.

Btw, I would keep Swampert over Azelf (people who know how I play will be surprised I said that). I would, however, use Protect over Roar. This what I'd do if I were to use Swampert. Why? Because phazers are overrated (imo) and because Protect in Lead Swampert is totally pro. People seriously don't know how great this is. With Protect you can block Azelf's and Aerodactyl's Taunt and, more importantly, Azelf's and Metagross' Explosion. This way you won't need to let something die to opposing Explosion users. I was going to say that you can't deal with Metagross effectively due to Explosion always hitting something. With Protect this is a different story. Not only will Protect be useful in the early game blocking Taunt and Explosion but also in the mid- to late-game, where you block Choice item users' attacks to scout or to get an extra turn of Leftovers recovery.

Also, Swampert is a great counter to Dragon Dance Salamence assuming you are at max helath. +1 Outrage doesn't OHKO so you can retaliate with a OHKO from Ice Beam.
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Sorry. I will keep Azelf, screens are useful to protect my all-out offensive team. And fast SR is more important than TauntProtecting to me. The opponent uses Taunt again if I use Protect again. When Protect fails, Swampert is Taunted. The only real use is against Exploders.

I prefer SD Scizor.
- It packs more power after a single boost.
- It can heal with Roost, use Leftovers and a bulky spread.-
- It has the ability to change moves.
I will try a 248 HP/252 Atk/8 Spe Scizor on the newest version, but I will also retest Sd Scizor.

To deal with Rotom-A+Zapdos, I thought about RestTalk Lanturn, but I know I would have to replace Milotic for using it, however, I could replace Togekiss for something, Togekiss is my "Raters please use the slot to check/counter problem Pokemon, I use Togekiss until I have something better." team slot.

In Togekiss' team slot, a bulky Pokemon covering weaks (Zapdos, Rotom-A are the first two Pokemon coming to my mind) for me would be nice. A WOW-taking (no Physical sweeper) Pokemon checking Zapdos would be nice.

Quick mini-threat list check. Only Smogon July stats top five.


Salamence-Uncounterable, Scizor can kill weakened ones and switch in on Outrage, Flygon revenge kills MixMence.


Heatran-Milotic, Flygon revenge kills.

Metagross-Are mostly leads, Milotic checks except for Explosion, Scizor can take predicted Explosions.


Reclaiming da ladder
Your scizor should probably be CB. i'm impressed with your creations. Nasty plot sub salac is awesome. Milotic's dragon pulse doesn't do much though.


The reason I decided not to rate this team is because raters put effort into rates and you just completely disregard them.

Kingdrom puts in a great rate, even for himself, but you practically make no changes that he said. Im not going to waste 15 mins for nothing.

Mamoswine weak. Salamence is your answer to Lucario, this is funny. Scizor is your best bet against opposing Scizor.

No offence intended
I read the whole rates. I tested everything (I have to do Snorlax testing, then I am done), but good, if my own version of the team works much better (higher win-loss ratio), I think I should pick the version of the team with the highest win-loss ratio, that's mine. I will be testing CB Scizor. I am willing to test the ideas again, but if I get a lower win-loss ratio with it than 16-4 (my own version) again, my own team works better. I tested Kingdroms version of the team (his changes except for replacing Milotic) and I told everybody the results in my last posts.

I test everything. Rates aren't wasted time. I test everything, but not everything works, what doesn't work needs to be fixed. I will retest Kingdroms rate again as soon as possible, then Snorlax, followed by CM Latias retesting. Lastly, I will test my own version with my own changes. All versions get 10 battles. What works the best will be used until the next rate.
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Aqua and I chatted about his options for special sponges and such on pm's. He does not disregard them.

I hope you all know that things we suggest usually don't work well for people because we don't understand their playing style and how they work. Just because I suggest a whole bunch of things that look really good doesn't mean he should change all of them. As long as he comprehends and tests what I have suggested no change is perfectly fine for me. We don't change or make teams in the rmt, we rate them.
Thank you Rhys29, it is true not anything suggested works. I test anything except for Milotic replacements, but everybody here knows they shouldn't suggest them, so a rate is never wasted. Raters want me to test their suggestions. I do that, not everything works. to ensure it, I will retest everything.

To be clear, my playing style is offense.


I do believe you need a much better Scizor / Lucario / Mamoswine and Gyarados set. There is really only one pokemon who checks them all.

That is Rotom - H.

Rotom H @ Choice Scarf

EVs: 122 HP / 176 SPAtk / 212 Spe

Shadow Ball / WoW
WoW / Trick

The EVs are quite simple and allow for a jump point as well as enough speed to outpace +1 Adamant Gyarados. JollyGyara is generally never seen and I believe it cannot quite OHKO you so it isn't too much of a big deal. Overheat is used to beat Scizor / Mamoswine and Metagross as well as Lucario. Trick is what I prefer in the last slot. The only downfall of this set is the Pursuit weakness though no Scizor will ever switch into Rotom, but some forms of CBTar will. I would recommend replacing Flygon for this as you do not need more than one revenge killer.

This does give you an overdose of Special Attackers, 3, which can be potentially bothersome.

I expect you could then replace Togekiss with a bulky support set or even forego Togekiss altogether to go with a WishLatias set. I am using Smogon as I have never used such a thing. Oh Smogon dont have a spread.

Seeing as Latias is being used to quell your MixApe weakness you need to run 184 Spe, I think this outspeeds stand MixApe by two points. So that allows Latias to outspeed pokemon trying to outspeed MixApe. I would then just pump the rest of the EVs into HP garnishing an optimal Lefties point and ten the filler into SPAtk.

Latias @ Leftovers

EVs: 252 HP / 74 SpAtk / 184 Spe

Protect / Surf
Dragon Pulse
HP Fire / Reflect

Wish helps spread healing around to the bulkier members of your team without recovery
i.e. Rotom / Swampert / Milotic.

Protect can be used in conjuction with Wish or you could run Surf as more insurance against Infernape. Protect is also very useful against CBers like Scizor. You protect and see what move it uses. if Scizor uses Bullet Punch you can switch out and if Scizor uses Pursuit you can set up Reflect of OHKO with HP Fire. Dragon Pulse is the obligatory STAB.

The team does look relatively good though.
Sorry. I will keep Azelf, screens are useful to protect my all-out offensive team. And fast SR is more important than TauntProtecting to me. The opponent uses Taunt again if I use Protect again. When Protect fails, Swampert is Taunted. The only real use is against Exploders.

What I meant is that you now know what your opponent will do. You use Protect while he Taunt and then you have a free Flygon switch-in, for example.

I prefer SD Scizor.
- It packs more power after a single boost.
- It can heal with Roost, use Leftovers and a bulky spread.-
- It has the ability to change moves.
I will try a 248 HP/252 Atk/8 Spe Scizor on the newest version, but I will also retest Sd Scizor.

No, you misunderstand my previous post. What I meant is not that you should use Choice Band Scizor, but that you made some mistakes on the way you handle the threats i listed. Choice Band Scizor just happened to be there. Re-read my previous post.
Talk about disrespect. Kingdrom takes his precious time to give you a fantastic rate, and all you do is give him a half-*** resopnse. I betting on the fact that you didn't even read his whole rate. If you want to get a team rated, I suggest you take into consideration everybody's rate.

[edit]: /late
I take every rate in consideration except for Milotic replacements. I read them all. I test all suggestions on Shoddy except for Milotic replacements and I will use the version of the team with the highest win-loss ratio. I will retest the rates when I have time because maybe one testing round per rate (10-20 battles) wasn't enough, but no, some people don't wait for the result and start flaming and saying I don't take rates in consideration and don't respect raters. I do respect raters. I test suggestions.

I am not immediately done with testing. I am still busy for the Dutch Pokemon Days, I don't have much time to test and I am doing the best I can to test every rate.

I read the rates, test them and compare win-loss ratios, then I decide what I use. I retest rates later. What else should I do with the rates?
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First off for any of you guys that think top 20 is hard, my friend got top 10 with a pikachu team .________.

Ok on to the team. You get raped by DD Salamence, nothing stops it. Scarf Flygon can even go for a speed tie. DDGyara has a field day with your team. Pert isnt going to stop random combinations of DDMence + Gyara/Tar/Scizor any time soon.

You have absolutely no way of beating stall. Stall is going to destroy all of your hopes and dreams, you have no way to ever hope to defeat stall in your entire life.

Just replace Milotic with Specs Starmie or something.
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