Minimum Wage: Who needs a comfortable life anyway?

[Maedar]

This scenario is almost literally inconceivable. With nobody doing those jobs, where are all those striking workers going to get food?

If a strike like that ever started, it would be guaranteed not to last. It is self-defeating; the companies would only need to wait long enough for those on strike to realize that they are hurting themselves.

You take too much for granted, FP, and you never consider what might happen if the simple things you depended on were taken away. Ever watch the show Revolution?

Maybe you should. It's a drama about a post-apocalyptic scenario that occurred not because of zombies or some other absurd infestation, but because the Earth lost the ability to produce electricity, and humanity had to learn to survive without any of the things it provided. Which was almost everything.

Not many managed.

 

[Blazekickblaziken]

This scenario is almost literally inconceivable. With nobody doing those jobs, where are all those striking workers going to get food?

If a strike like that ever started, it would be guaranteed not to last. It is self-defeating; the companies would only need to wait long enough for those on strike to realize that they are hurting themselves.

Of course a strike like that would never happen. It's a logistical nightmare. But if by some act of magic it did happen, it wouldn't need to last too long. How much damage would be done to the economy in three days, maybe a week? I think most people underestimate the importance of minimum wage jobs in the economy.

 

[BigLutz]

Interesting thing to note is that France is testing touch screen ordering at Mcdonnalds to cut out cashiers

http://www.cnet.com/news/mcdonalds-hires-7000-touch-screen-cashiers/

Also as seen in the CBO study another study has found that states with higher minimum wage have higher unemployment

http://americanactionforum.org/rese...unemployment-and-reduced-job-creation-in-2013

 

[TheFightingPikachu]

You take too much for granted, FP, and you never consider what might happen if the simple things you depended on were taken away. Ever watch the show Revolution?

Of course a strike like that would never happen. It's a logistical nightmare. But if by some act of magic it did happen, it wouldn't need to last too long. How much damage would be done to the economy in three days, maybe a week? I think most people underestimate the importance of minimum wage jobs in the economy.

I don't think either of you get what I'm saying, and it had nothing to do with the value of minimum wage jobs on the economy, or taking what I have for granted.

If all customer service workers went on strike, they themselves cannot get food. Guess who can? The people who run the stores. Who loses?

 

[Blazekickblaziken]

I don't think either of you get what I'm saying, and it had nothing to do with the value of minimum wage jobs on the economy, or taking what I have for granted.

If all customer service workers went on strike, they themselves cannot get food. Guess who can? The people who run the stores. Who loses?

I understand that. But who cares if you have food or not, when you have not made any sales in a week and you still have bills to pay? And if you're selling perishables, you're out of stock to sell. For example, where I live there was a hurricane two years ago which left many places without light for about two days, during these two days they were closed, and when they got back the fast food restaurants had to throw away ALL their stock. Can you imagine how much money they must have lost in two days? Now imagine that on a national scale.

So yes, they have acess to food supplies. But if things get to the point where who has access to food supplies is the deciding factor, there are going to be much bigger problems to worry about thant the strike.

Also, I never specifically said there was going to be a strike, I said "if all customer service positions dissapeared." The point isn't *why* they all dissapeared (maybe they were all abducted by aliens, maybe the all got fired, who knows, who cares), but rather what would the consequences be if it did happen?

 

[Navin]

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So this attitude gets to me. Sure, fast food workers and retail employees aren't positions that require that much preparation, but they're an IMPORTANT part of our society. Sooner or later you're going to have to buy something from a store (more likely sooner than later) and you're going to get served by an employee, not a robot, a person. Can you imagine what would happen if you woke up tomorrow and all customer service positions disappeared?

I definitely agree with you that all these type of professions are necessary for society to function smoothly. What I was going for is the idea that fast food could theoretically be paying the same hourly rate as higher skill jobs that often require college degrees due to a minimum wage hike, unless these professions in turn also increase their wages proportionally.

i also work in a research lab for school things and i don't think it's a problem. like bkb said, fast food is a necessary job, and it's also hard. have you ever worked in fast food? obviously i dont know what kind of research you do but i do molecular/cell biology and fast food seems way harder than the stuff i do.

Yeah, cell biology & immunology and the what not. I do think fast food is necessary and can be difficult especially during busy parts of the day where lots of orders are coming in and things have to get done quickly. Anyway, I for one don't really care as much since this is just a part-time job I hold while going to school. But it's more like the idea that someone in fast food, if the minimum wage is pushed to say like $15, could be making theoretically as much as my fellow lab mate who'll just finish her BS here at Michigan and is starting to work at a lab full-time for that same hourly rate that slightly irks me. Working at a research lab requires higher skill than fast food, and I don't think that's an unreasonable thought.

 

[John Madden]

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I definitely agree with you that all these type of professions are necessary for society to function smoothly. What I was going for is the idea that fast food could theoretically be paying the same hourly rate as higher skill jobs that often require college degrees due to a minimum wage hike, unless these professions in turn also increase their wages proportionally.



Yeah, cell biology & immunology and the what not. I do think fast food is necessary and can be difficult especially during busy parts of the day where lots of orders are coming in and things have to get done quickly. Anyway, I for one don't really care as much since this is just a part-time job I hold while going to school. But it's more like the idea that someone in fast food, if the minimum wage is pushed to say like $15, could be making theoretically as much as my fellow lab mate who'll just finish her BS here at Michigan and is starting to work at a lab full-time for that same hourly rate that slightly irks me. Working at a research lab requires higher skill than fast food, and I don't think that's an unreasonable thought.

yeah, this is actually precisely why $15 is the upper limit for proposals i've seen for the very near future, because anything higher than that will probably cause higher levels of inflation (not from the wage hike itself, but from every other profession with low wages raising theirs to keep a competitive advantage over minimum-wage jobs)

 

[ellie]

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I definitely agree with you that all these type of professions are necessary for society to function smoothly. What I was going for is the idea that fast food could theoretically be paying the same hourly rate as higher skill jobs that often require college degrees due to a minimum wage hike, unless these professions in turn also increase their wages proportionally.



Yeah, cell biology & immunology and the what not. I do think fast food is necessary and can be difficult especially during busy parts of the day where lots of orders are coming in and things have to get done quickly. Anyway, I for one don't really care as much since this is just a part-time job I hold while going to school. But it's more like the idea that someone in fast food, if the minimum wage is pushed to say like $15, could be making theoretically as much as my fellow lab mate who'll just finish her BS here at Michigan and is starting to work at a lab full-time for that same hourly rate that slightly irks me. Working at a research lab requires higher skill than fast food, and I don't think that's an unreasonable thought.

it's a higher initial skill level but in my experience once you start it becomes really easy. especially because in a lot of research labs (assuming this is with just a BS so you are probably a lab tech or something) you do the same thing every day. sure the first couple times you do a western blot you will probably mess up but once you've done a few you get pretty good at it. you just have to make sure you time everything properly and dont throw away stuff you're gonna need. it's not backbreaking like fast food any job in customer service where you are running around trying to help people, making food in a hot gross kitchen, etc. plus almost any job where you interact with people you have to deal with verbal abuse both from customers and from corporate, last time i checked my cells don't yell at me even if i kill them . i definitely would pick being in the lab over doing fast food/retail any day even if they were the same pay rate.

as for increasing wages proportionally, i'm not disagreeing that it would be a problem if min wage gets raised, but i think that means we need to think about how money is distributed to begin with. why is it that companies are making record breaking profits with CEOs taking home bigger and bigger bonuses every year while people at the bottom of the totem pole are getting told we're in a recession and have to make cutbacks on hours/better positions/etc? i dont think it's lab techs getting paid more than fast food workers that is the problem, rather it's the higher ups in these same companies not sharing the profits with the people that make their company run.

 

[BigLutz]

Just curious but can anyone explain the reason why a one size fits all minimum wage is a good idea at all? Wouldn't it be easier to have it tied to cost of living in each state? It costs way more to live in say New York or California than say Texas or Mississippi to throw our two examples. Wouldn't it be better to have a minimum wage more geared to the needs of each state than a one size fits all solution?

 

[ellie]

just because it's the federal minimum wage doesn't mean states can't go higher. they currently do and i dont think that's a bad thing. san francisco (right by where i live), has an extremely high cost of living and its minimum wage is already over $10. i wouldnt suggest it should scale down to $10 if the federal min wage became $10 but rather scale up, along with other areas that are currently above $10.

 

[Zenotwapal]

just because it's the federal minimum wage doesn't mean states can't go higher. they currently do and i dont think that's a bad thing. san francisco (right by where i live), has an extremely high cost of living and its minimum wage is already over $10. i wouldnt suggest it should scale down to $10 if the federal min wage became $10 but rather scale up, along with other areas that are currently above $10.

To reiterate what Lutz said: living in say, Texas does not cost as much as living in California or New York. Minimum wage in Texas is $7.25/hr, which is more than enough to support a single individual. So why force all states to adhere to a certain floor when they don't need it?

To put this bluntly any scenario involving a minimum wage increase will only cause short term benefits. Artificial inflation is bound to occur due the strain businesses will be put under, prices of goods will go up, and we are back to square one.

 

[The Admiral]

To put this bluntly any scenario involving a minimum wage increase will only cause short term benefits. Artificial inflation is bound to occur due the strain businesses will be put under, prices of goods will go up, and we are back to square one.

I'm pretty sure this will mostly affect small businesses. Larger corporations are fully capable of sacking up and eating a small dent in their profits to not screw over their customers.

 

[BigLutz]

I'm pretty sure this will mostly affect small businesses. Larger corporations are fully capable of sacking up and eating a small dent in their profits to not screw over their customers.

Well they could go the way of Europe to get their profits back, automate more to cut down on jobs, charge for things that are free now like refills, condiments, and bathroom use. There are a lot of things large corporations especially fast food restuarants can do right now in America to get extra money but don't.

 

[Blazekickblaziken]

To reiterate what Lutz said: living in say, Texas does not cost as much as living in California or New York. Minimum wage in Texas is $7.25/hr, which is more than enough to support a single individual. So why force all states to adhere to a certain floor when they don't need it?

To put this bluntly any scenario involving a minimum wage increase will only cause short term benefits. Artificial inflation is bound to occur due the strain businesses will be put under, prices of goods will go up, and we are back to square one.

If anything this seems to point to raising minimum wage being an incomplete solution. There need to be other methods used to redistribute wealth in ADDITION to raising the minimum wage.

The reality is that with a minimum wage of 7.25 you will struggle to make ends meet even if you do things how they're "supposed" to be done. If you make even the slightest of mistakes (or just have bad luck) then you're stuck in a pit with no way out, just treading water so you can stay afloat waiting on a miracle.

People always say you need to better yourself, but how exactly? How long can a person work two jobs, go to school, and keep up with ALL their responsibilities before they just burn out? What happens after they "better" themselves and can't find a job anyways? Should they just try harder? How hard do people have to try before we realize that "try harder" is not an actual solution to the problem?

@BigLutz

Many places already charge for refills, and condiments, and for non-paying customers to use the bathroom. (Wether people pay them or not, is a whole other story)

 

[BigLutz]

If anything this seems to point to raising minimum wage being an incomplete solution. There need to be other methods used to redistribute wealth in ADDITION to raising the minimum wage.

The reality is that with a minimum wage of 7.25 you will struggle to make ends meet even if you do things how they're "supposed" to be done. If you make even the slightest of mistakes (or just have bad luck) then you're stuck in a pit with no way out, just treading water so you can stay afloat waiting on a miracle.

People always say you need to better yourself, but how exactly? How long can a person work two jobs, go to school, and keep up with ALL their responsibilities before they just burn out? What happens after they "better" themselves and can't find a job anyways? Should they just try harder? How hard do people have to try before we realize that "try harder" is not an actual solution to the problem?

You know what? That is life, it sucks but not everyone gets the career they want, sometimes it really sucks and your stuck trying to find the closest thing available to keep you afloat.

@BigLutz

Many places already charge for refills, and condiments, and for non-paying customers to use the bathroom. (Wether people pay them or not, is a whole other story)

Not in America at the moment, if the minimum wage is changed that can be a completely different story.

 

[Blazekickblaziken]

You know what? That is life, it sucks but not everyone gets the career they want, sometimes it really sucks and your stuck trying to find the closest thing available to keep you afloat.



Not in America at the moment, if the minimum wage is changed that can be a completely different story.

1) Don't be obnoxious

2) The point is: If the only resource society can provide is "keeping you afloat" - You're doing it wrong.

3) Considering my examples are from Boston and Puerto Rico, which are BOTH parts of the US, then: Yes, it does happen in America.

 

[BigLutz]

1) Don't be obnoxious

2) The point is: If the only resource society can provide is "keeping you afloat" - You're doing it wrong.

At some point that is all a society can provide, are you suggesting the forced hiring for professions?

3) Considering my examples are from Boston and Puerto Rico, which are BOTH parts of the US, then: Yes, it does happen in America.

And my examples come from California to Florida and practically everywhere in between, if it happens on mainland America its incredibly rare

 

[ellie]

raising minimum wage is one of the only ways we can go about trying to make corporations be fair to their employees at this time. personally i think making large corporations have more full time positions (which offer benefits) would be a better step forward in addition to increasing minimum wage, but that's much harder to legislate right now.

saying "life sucks and isn't fair" is pretty easy when it comes from someone who wasn't born into the vicious cycle of poverty. just looking at some of my own coworkers right now, some of them are living pretty much paycheck to paycheck and if their car breaks down, their kid has to go to the ER, or any other small emergency, they're completely screwed. the system right now makes it nearly impossible for someone who is trapped to get out, and that should not be acceptable.

also on the automation argument, a lot of times it actually isnt more profitable to have things be automated. self-checkouts are much slower (who would have thought that people who ring up and bag items every day would be a lot faster than the average person) so you get through less customers, and it increases theft. in my state, you need a cashier to approve any alcohol sales so you will still have to have some cashiers anyway. plus a lot of people, especially older people who have a lot of the buying power, actually like having a real person there. increasing minimum wage might increase automation a little bit but it's not going to completely get rid of all service positions.

 

[Murder Doll]

If minimum wage is increased what motivation is there to clime up the ladder?

If they are increased won't it hurt more people do to either a increase in job cuts or an increase of overall item costs?

If people who are flipping burgers are making a good wage despite not needing any kind of education to do so then won't arguably more important jobs that do require education be less appealing then they are now?

These are questions I ask people who think the minimum wage should be raised as really I feel most just look at it from the perspective of how it would be beneficial in our CURRENT state.

 

[ellie]

not starving shouldn't be a motivational tool for people. i and the others arguing for an increase aren't suggesting giving everyone a super luxurious life for free. if i am living in a small apartment in an okay area of town with a small entertainment budget, i am still going to be motivated to get promoted so maybe someday i can afford a big house in the nice part of town with enough money to go on european vacations, for example. hell, i would say that right now there is even less motivation for people to do better if they are trapped in a cycle of poverty and know that there is no way out short of a miracle.