Mmm... Cyndaquil steak

[Lord Nidokingu]

Gawd, I should not have let Dragonfree show me this topic.

To everyone that says pokémon are food and unintelligent pets:

So much for my wonderful imaginary world I can escape to when I want out of the DEPRESSING real world I loathe so much. People like you have to introduce real world bullsh** into the mix and it pisses me off.

You people just can't accept what you've been shown. NO this pokémon type of world would never work in reality. The planet would be ashes. Fricken ashes. The skills of various pokémon and the dangers they present would severely destroy the ecology and wipe out entire species. There'd be nothing left.

Yet you people just can't accept that it's NOT real, no matter how badly you want to try and make sense of it. PERIOD.

You look at the classic medieval fantasy stuff. I'll just use that as an example because I'm pretty good in that area. Dungeons filled with treasures of gold and artifacts worth entire kingdoms. If this sort of thing really existed, entire social structures would be overturned literally overnight.

The pokémon in the games are a fun game element, not a LOGICAL one.

Get it through your skulls and stop f***ing up my fantasy.

 

[xXSaberXx]

D: I think they just raise REAL animals for food. :O Like....Cows for beef. But considering Miltank MIlk is AWESOME they raise Miltank for Milk. D: And eat fish as fish.

PLUS if you think about it......There'd be a bunch of POkemon Rights Activists running around telling people htey can't eat pokemon because they have concioussness. IN A WAYYYYYYYY I think It's kinda like abortion with the whole DO THEY HAVE CONCIOUSSNESS ARE THEY HUMAN kinda thing.

D: My two cents.

*hides before rabid opposers oppose her* :O

 

[Another Fan]

Grumpig? Feelings? I think not. So, no I wouldn't mind eating a grumpig. But dragonair is a bit more than that. It is like eating a dolphin really.

Lord, I for onehave an image of the pokemon world, as well your own. But I truly like the concept of that pokemon are the animals of the pokemon world. So just like you prefer a fun pokemon world, I prefer a logical one. So, you are f***ing up my fantasy.

Pokemon would know a move before because it is a move it knows naturally to survive. Pokemon get used to being commanded to use the move. There. Yes, things are very softened in the game. So, if you make it a pokemon animals, the you have to make pokemon trainers animal trainers.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

Well, seeing as people say there's only one Farfetch'd that would be kind of weird, LOL.

Only one Farfetch'd? What are you talking about?

 

[Dragonfree]

Grumpig? Feelings? I think not. So, no I wouldn't mind eating a grumpig. But dragonair is a bit more than that. It is like eating a dolphin really.

Lord, I for onehave an image of the pokemon world, as well your own. But I truly like the concept of that pokemon are the animals of the pokemon world. So just like you prefer a fun pokemon world, I prefer a logical one. So, you are f***ing up my fantasy.

Pokemon would know a move before because it is a move it knows naturally to survive. Pokemon get used to being commanded to use the move. There. Yes, things are very softened in the game. So, if you make it a pokemon animals, the you have to make pokemon trainers animal trainers.

The thing is that you're excusing your theory with "Canon says otherwise, but well, canon is wrong," which is not a legitimate excuse in a debate about whether people eat Pokémon or not.

The fact is that while you think we have absolutely no real reason to believe that Grumpig should have feelings, you have absolutely no real reason to believe it should not, aside from what real-world animal it resembles.

 

[Lord Nidokingu]

The thing is that you're excusing your theory with "Canon says otherwise, but well, canon is wrong," which is not a legitimate excuse in a debate about whether people eat Pokémon or not.

The fact is that while you think we have absolutely no real reason to believe that Grumpig should have feelings, you have absolutely no real reason to believe it should not, aside from what real-world animal it resembles.

Yeah, it's funny how s/he prefers a logical world, when s/he can't even use logic in a debate... =/

I guess logic doesn't really matter to her/him.

Apparently it's beyond people's grasp to accept that this imaginary world might be able to support human life without the need to harvest and slaughter another creature. Too hard to imagine that maybe the other things they eat have all the necessary nutrients a person would need. Either that or imagining a pokémon getting hacked into tiny pieces and thrown on a grill makes them moist or hard.

But to each his own, regardless of logic, right? Canon is logical, but people don't like that. They have to reflect the real world on to it and do away with canon.

Personally, I find it difficult to take a person seriously when they ignore some of the logical arguments made against them.

 

[Chibi Pika]

Oh boy! A debate! ^^;

Concerning the Pokedex entries: I've wondered about that as well before, but really, there is a lot of evidence that Pokemon have differing levels of intelligence (Alakazam at IQ 5000, anyone?) so IMO, that's what they were referring too, with other Pokemon as well, like Latios's Pokedex entry.

Things like Caterpie would just merely be along the lower level, like a young child or retarded person persay, at least until they evolve, along with other Pokemon commonly thought of as unintelligent such as Slowpoke. Pokemon such as Dragonite and the like would be matched with humans, and of course, Legendarie's intellingence would be too much for us to comprehend.

And what evidence is there that Pokemon whose real life counterparts are food animals would be eaten just the same in the Pokemon world? With teaching Pokemon attacks and the like, it's far beyond that of say, teaching a dog to sit, or even beyond that of complex commands used when training animals for movies. There IS evidence that Pokemon actually understand what the word itself means. Pokemon (most of them, anyway) may be unable to speak human languages bevause of their speech restrictions, but there most certainly would be able to understand one if they had been around human long enough. If you were to translate Pikachu's "Pika pikas" you'd get normal human speech. If you were to translate a mouse's squeaks, you'd get a couple of vague meanings like, "Run, enemy, food, ect..."

There is proof of that as well. Meowth acts as a translator between Pokemon and humans. How could a non-sentient being learn to complete understand a human language?

I will not get into why some Pokemon will eat other Pokemon, however. Way too complicated and it would give away fic spoilers for LC.

Later, a portal between the Pokémon world and the animal world opened, and the humans of the Pokémon world imported animals to breed and eat.

*Stares very long and hard.* Either I'm taking that quote too literally, or our fics have yet another scary similarity. *Hides.*

~Chibi~;249;<?>;rukario;

 

[The Big Al]

That's because the canon is an awful base. The anime has to be one of the most poorly contsructed. It's canon that law enforcement sucks, the bad guys are immortal, and other problems. Seriously, Pokemon canon screams to be done away with.

As for eating Pokemon. Pokemon eat Pokemon, why would humans be any different? Just because we preprocess food, how is it any different from a pakc of Mightyena killing a Stantler and tearing the flesh off its bones? Not mention humans are MEAT-EATERS and plant eaters by nature. Do you feel those sharp objects in the top of your mouth? Those have one purpose, ripping flesh. Considering people in Pokemon still possess these teeth, they eat meat.

While I've seen small birds, invertibrates, and fish, I've yet to see any large mammals to suggest cows and other food and game animals exist in the Pokemon. Also it is CANON that Pokemon like Farfetch'd and Lapras were hunted and eaten. So even if you use canon you have to admit that.

 

[munchlaxboy]

The only thing that would not be mean to eat is Magicarp since its almost useless except it evolving into GYRADOS. v_v

 

[Another Fan]

Anime is semi-canon. It is made by different people. And all the versions of pokemon canon together are contradictory. So I choose the one which I like.

So, if they don't eat pokemon, they eat either animals or are all vegetarians. Vegetarians could work but I don't see why they have to be. I prefer a world like ours. Animals, would make use make theories on what is the difference between pokemon and animals and why don't the obviously superior pokemon just whipe out the animals. And if there are pokemon who are more poweful than us in many ways and are as intelligient like us. Why don't they take over?

 

[Dragonfree]

Even you, who use game canon exclusively, have to admit that according to the in-game Pokédex, Alakazam are in fact by far more intelligent than us. Why don't they take over? Clearly Pokémon do have some motive not to take over, and therefore that argument is invalid. (I like to believe that Pokémon, while very much capable of reasoning, are lacking in creative abilities, hence why wild Pokémon haven't invented tools or anything, and therefore benefit from a human trainer in battle, which again leads to them becoming stronger and more experienced, which is what they want.)

Animé is canon enough to have had a game based on it, don't forget.

That's because the canon is an awful base. The anime has to be one of the most poorly contsructed. It's canon that law enforcement sucks, the bad guys are immortal, and other problems. Seriously, Pokemon canon screams to be done away with.

The bad guys being immortal is just there for the comical effect, but unless I'm really missing something, you have to admit that all canon maintains the same basic structure of the Pokémon world: trainers compete in league using Pokémon they have caught, Pokémon are not specifically rewarded for battling but battle anyway, a strong Pokémon can choose to fry the trainer instead of battling and there is nothing the trainer can do about that.

how is it any different from a pakc of Mightyena killing a Stantler and tearing the flesh off its bones?

It is different because humans don't go out and hunt when they want to eat. They breed the animals they eat at farms, and attempting to keep a bunch of Stantler at a farm would be a disaster - they'd probably just hypnotize the farmer and Stomp him to death. Sure, hunting one wild Pokémon at a time in groups is believable (although not everybody would be prepared to eat one), but not farming.

*Stares very long and hard.* Either I'm taking that quote too literally, or our fics have yet another scary similarity. *Hides.*

You have something like that too?

 

[Another Fan]

Um. Yeah. Games were first. Yeah. The games were first. And I don't use all game all the game says.

I think a steelix for example would much rather be the one who everyone listens to rather than doing what a small squishy thing that has shiny badges which you got only from using it. Lets say out of the millions of powerful pokemon, there is one who would enjoy having humans treat it like a king. So it could easily grab and beat them to death if they didn't. What prevents that happening if they are intelliegent enough to understand that people do things if there life is at risk?

Stantler. Learns Hypnosis and Stomp only once it has much experiance in battle. There is no reason why breeded stantlers would do that.

Any problems or theories which disprove what I said?

 

[Dragonfree]

Um. Yeah. Games were first. Yeah. The games were first. And I don't use all game all the game says.

I know that the game came first; I was referring to Yellow in my earlier post.

I think a steelix for example would much rather be the one who everyone listens to rather than doing what a small squishy thing that has shiny badges which you got only from using it. Lets say out of the millions of powerful pokemon, there is one who would enjoy having humans treat it like a king. So it could easily grab and beat them to death if they didn't. What prevents that happening if they are intelliegent enough to understand that people do things if there life is at risk?

You're making them too human now. Their intelligence can be quite human without their way of thinking being anything like ours. Intelligence =/= having a desire to control others.

Stantler. Learns Hypnosis and Stomp only once it has much experiance in battle. There is no reason why breeded stantlers would do that.

Then they continuously make attempts to fight the farmer off, and eventually that experience will cause them to grow a few levels and learn Hypnosis/Stomp.

 

[Another Fan]

How would they know they are killing them? Really?

I doubt that they can speak all the languages we speak.

So, how do you say pokemon think if they don't think like us but still are as sentient? What are there needs or cares?

 

[The Big Al]

Dragonfree, you're forget this invention called a gun that humans created to kill things from afar. Also, Stantler wouldn't be raised. People go out into the woods and hunt like deer.

 

[PDL]

Dragonfree, you're forget this invention called a gun that humans created to kill things from afar. Also, Stantler wouldn't be raised. People go out into the woods and hunt like deer.

you know, there are deer farms, they raise them for venison and antlers (which they saw off every year, they grow back) but venison isn't as popular or as available as say beef or pork

what about slowpoke tails? they're were many references to them back in GSC...

 

[The Big Al]

Slowpoke tails grow back like antlers. It's too bad the anime is too kid friendly for some nutcase to shove a cooked slopoke tail on a stick in front of ASh while he was in Azela. I would have loved to have watched him turn green.

 

[Dragonfree]

How would they know they are killing them? Really?

I doubt that they can speak all the languages we speak.

I would refer to the animé and how Pokémon understand commands like "Dodge" and other complicated orders, but since you don't believe anything the animé says, I'll have to refer to my earlier post: If they're sentient, they can put together two and two and figure out that when they've been locked somewhere inside and a human comes and takes one of them off who is never seen again, there is definitely something fishy going on.

So, how do you say pokemon think if they don't think like us but still are as sentient? What are there needs or cares?

I fail to see how what Pokémon think like exactly is relevant to the discussion. As long as you consider the possibility that they do not necessarily think like humans, my theory makes sense.

Dragonfree, you're forget this invention called a gun that humans created to kill things from afar. Also, Stantler wouldn't be raised. People go out into the woods and hunt like deer.

If you read my earlier posts, it is only Pokémon farming that I believe would not make sense. Hunting would work, as long as they single out one Stantler - however, one guy with a gun won't do if you're dealing with a whole bunch of Stantler that don't even have anywhere to run. You can only fire in one direction at once.

 

[Another Fan]

Well, it is just I can't seem to find a way that pokemon think that makes sense so if I can't find one that makes sense then the theory on why pokemon don't cause problems falls flat, not solving the problem with the fact that if pokemon sentient, causing there to be problems with the theory that pokemon are has a sense of identity, causing there do be no reason not to eat pokemon.

I don't see why would pokemon have an idea on what is going on. Seeing a thing carried away doesn't always imply it being killed.

 

[Dragonfree]

Even then, a human with a gun could technically also just decide he doesn't want to be ruled by some pesky president and go to shoot him. However, if that does happen, it's not like that human will ever be allowed to take over the world. He'd be caught and punished in no time.

And seeing somebody carried away and never seeing them again is very suspicious if you ask me. If you were locked in a room and somebody took your friend out of the room for no apparent reason, keeping you in there and the friend never returns, I think you definitely would be worried. Besides that a mother whose calf is taken away would never be very happy about it, whether she actually knows what's happening to the calf or not.