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Mohn and Lillie: A Reunion on the Tundra! (1200)

LucasMV

Well-Known Member
Ok, this is one of my favorite episodes in Journeys. Maybe even my favorite. Everything was carefully crafted, the atmosphere was phenomenal and they focused on Lillie's family instead of trying too hard to involve Ash and co. Also it's one of the rare times were I was actually confused and intrigued at a Pokemon episode, during the whole scene when Mohn said he had a daughter. I was like "wait, what?" and at the edge of my seat waiting for the reveal to understand what was going on.

I don't know if this episode was handled by people who wrote their SM episodes or not, but this is the reason I loved the SM series. They get these kind of emotional stories right. I can't point my finger at what it is exactly, but the characters and their conflict just felt more real, more human, rather than with other more superficial and goofy episodes Pokemon tends to have (which are also fine, but I prefer this kind).

Also, the animation was beautiful. Pikachu's Iron Tail against Nihilego took me by surprise, and gives me hope that they can still do fantastic animation, and that maybe if the Masters Tournament will get more of that, it will be just that little bit closer to what we all want to see.

10/10 episode, and next week the Alola Champion returns home!
 

janejane6178

Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
Lillie’s face wasnt distorted in this ep
They fixed her sm face , for sure. In sm her eyes were too small and closed to each other. It was horrible
 

Spider-Phoenix

#ChespinGang
I love Matsui and Tomiyasu just made DeNA's job for them. There's their Classic Lillie, a potential pokémon for her and even a palette for EX outfit. Can even make her a poison striker since the game lacks those thus forcing even non-Lillie cult members to pull.

And interesting to note that with the exception of Magearna and Nihilego, all the other pokémon in the family pic are based on canines. Darn, now I feel half tempted about a thematic team. Sylvally makes team coverage a piece of cake!

Overall, very good episode. But... Wasn't today meant to be a Pokémon Journeys episode? Why are they returning with Chronicles and post-shows specials?

No joke, that one was... Legitimately good. It's even above the current show's average.

But not everything are flowers though... Like... As good as it is, it becomes sad because it shows how much potential this current entry has and how good returns can be when they are handled with care. I dunno, if executive pouring money because Lillie is a super popular character or Tomiyasu just being biased towards his previous work, but it's dissapointing seeing they can put up such gem while everywhere else in the show is... What it is. Mostly a show that hasn't truly found its own identity and tries way too many things at once.

I remember noticing some favoritism in the first Alola trip episode but after that one and considering next week's preview, yeah, there's definetely playing favorites around here. It kind of takes away a lot of merits of what would a very solid tale otherwise. Like, you are telling me you can do episodes like that for characters you were personally involved with while everyone else gets... Half-baked content?

Tomiyasu did the Mewtwo episode and the contrast is blatant.

Justapoxing both episodes gives the perfect picture of what's going on with this show. It struggles between its desire of being a slice-of-life comedy with some heartwarming moments here and there AND needing to be an adventure/action series because that's Pokémon's major selling point. Something has to give and that's what we get. "Big deal" episodes are done as corporate chores while simpler, calmer episodes looks all artist-y and stuff.

Don't take away from the episode's own merits but... In a way, it does leave me a sour taste in the mouth because I wanted some of my favorites to get those displays of effort too.

Also, the joke about it being Chronicles or a post series special is more to point the fact Ash and the gang weren't really needed here. Honestly, they should've played it like the those TR episodes where Ash and Goh just show up to remind us they are the MCs.

But at the same time, while it's nice, in a way it makes this return feels disconnected with the others thus why I compare to post-series specials since it's basically about Ash's companion having an adventure without Ash on it. And really, he didn't really needed to be here at all. For that, I feel like it feels it's more intrusive thus it doesn't really work as a return as much as Serena's or Gary's.

Because of that, if I were to rank the returns it'd be like Serena-Gary-Lillie-Clemont-Iris (on this order). Serena's worked because it sparked enthusiasm despite being such a short reunion and a mostly Chloe-focused episode yet they did too much with the few they had. Meanwhile Gary's made great use of continuity as well as how it handled dynamics: remembering us the ones characters' had, how they've evolved and at the same time creating new ones. Clemont and Iris had good episodes but since they were busy with other commitments (the PWC plot) they don't fully live to the their potential.

All in all, a great episode of Journeys that should be more of the norm as well as a miracle.
 
I love Matsui and Tomiyasu just made DeNA's job for them. There's their Classic Lillie, a potential pokémon for her and even a palette for EX outfit. Can even make her a poison striker since the game lacks those thus forcing even non-Lillie cult members to pull.
Meanwhile, DeNa is allergic to Ash-Greninja, surely because...well, no Ash around.
 

Yuugis Black Magician

Namaikina Imouto
I'm not sure why it's surprising that if the time to make an episode someone is really passionate becomes available Tomiyasu would put it in. Tomiyasu has to manage a very strict production schedule and number of resources. If he had the time and resources to spread around on every episode he would. Instead he has to pick and choose the fights he takes on and in this case he picked a fight where he knew he really wanted to nail it.

There's a reason that he's only storyboarded, like, five episodes since Sun & Moon began: he's busy managing the series and he isn't Yama'uchi Shigeyasu and can just churn out a dozen storyboards every 24 episodes.
 

mehmeh1

Looks like my summer vacation is.....over
I'm not sure why it's surprising that if the time to make an episode someone is really passionate becomes available Tomiyasu would put it in. Tomiyasu has to manage a very strict production schedule and number of resources. If he had the time and resources to spread around on every episode he would. Instead he has to pick and choose the fights he takes on and in this case he picked a fight where he knew he really wanted to nail it.

There's a reason that he's only storyboarded, like, five episodes since Sun & Moon began: he's busy managing the series and he isn't Yama'uchi Shigeyasu and can just churn out a dozen storyboards every 24 episodes.
I think the first line is the thing, showing some favoritism to this to the detriment of JN stuff
 

Sham

No longer trembling not a moment more
Piping hot take: they only reason people are saying Tomiyasu is biased towards SM is because of the fact he directed that series as well and people are hyper focusing whenever Alola gets a return episode. I can think of a couple of arguments “proving” that he’s biased towards other series but that doesn’t fit the conspiracy narrative
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
Piping hot take: they only reason people are saying Tomiyasu is biased towards SM is because of the fact he directed that series as well and people are hyper focusing whenever Alola gets a return episode. I can think of a couple of arguments “proving” that he’s biased towards other series but that doesn’t fit the conspiracy narrative
It is funny because last month was literally XY party and nobody complained about anyone being biased. But SM gets a single good episode and we start with this conspiracy narrative.
 

Sham

No longer trembling not a moment more
It is funny because last month was literally XY party and nobody complained about anyone being biased. But SM gets a single good episode and we start with this conspiracy narrative.
Let's talk about it

Korrina got how many episodes? She's gotten more episodes than past companions.
Serena, Clemont and Bonnie all happening within two weeks? AND A TWO PARTER for a Kalos match against a Kalos Elite Four member? Not even the Raihan episode was a two partner and just like complaints of the animation not being as good as this episode, it should of been a two parter like the Drasna episode showing him preparing.
And then an episode or two later Greninja appears?
Ash getting an entire episode in Kalos focusing on him mastering M Evolution?

Unova (and arguably Johto kinda) got payed nothing and almost got no attention but XY got all of that?

This conspiracy theory of "favoritism" completely ignores the fact that we got a MONTH of XY episodes and it was crickets
 
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RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
Let's talk about it

Korrina got how many episodes? She's gotten more episodes than past companions.
Serena, Clemont and Bonnie all happening within two weeks? AND A TWO PARTER for a Kalos match against a Kalos Elite Four member? Not even the Raihan episode was a two partner and just like complaints of the animation not being as good as this episode, it should of been a two parter like the Drasna episode showing him preparing.
And then an episode or two later Greninja appears?
Ash getting an entire episode in Kalos focusing on him mastering M Evolution?
Don't forget that the TRio 25th anniversary episode was delayed for the Serena's episode. But I don't remember people making theories about some sort of XY favoritism.
 

Bortgreen

UP NEXT: The calm before the Torrent
  • Can we talk about how Lillie went from not being able to touch Pokemon and screaming at the sight of Nihilego but did both when she grabbed it's hand? A true queen who can get over her phobias
I noticed this too, very interesting
Meanwhile, DeNa is allergic to Ash-Greninja, surely because...well, no Ash around.
OLM and Game Freak: What is Ash-Greninja?
 
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Evstike

We lost...
XY was the first series Tomiyasu worked on so technically you could still call favouritism for both XY and SM :p

You also have to remember the Mohn plotline was deliberately left open ended at the end of SM with the intention of wrapping it up in the next series while it's possible the other returns were hastily thrown together when they found out they would be bringing back old characters on a regular basis. It's no surprise that the big conclusion to a plotline years in the making would get better treatment than just another plain old return. If you think about it, Lillie was the only companion who needed to return for reasons other than fanservice.

Looking around on Twitter, the staff seem to really be proud of how this one turned out, even commending each other and I'm happy for them. If this level of production value was wasted on a stupid filler or the mismanagement that was #30 (it was) I'd agree with some of the complaints and accusations, but this resolution to a plotline not only started years ago in SM but reintroduced in JN making it part of the currenct series' plot deserved it just as much as any other important episode. Maybe the people involved enjoy working on other things than Ash's battles.

EDIT: It feels strange to be defending JN again
 
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RLC

Well-Known Member
It is funny because last month was literally XY party and nobody complained about anyone being biased. But SM gets a single good episode and we start with this conspiracy narrative.
You're conveniently ignoring the fact that all of those XY episodes and other returns (including the first alola one) still advanced the development of Ash, Goh, and Koharu in some way (and if not developing one of the three, they still played a significant role in it), whereas this episode didn't, which I think is a reasonable complaint.

I personally think that the good in this episode more than made up for it though, and I'll only be upset if the conclusion of ash/goh/koharu arcs does not at least have the same amount of effort put into it.
 
Piping hot take: they only reason people are saying Tomiyasu is biased towards SM is because of the fact he directed that series as well and people are hyper focusing whenever Alola gets a return episode. I can think of a couple of arguments “proving” that he’s biased towards other series but that doesn’t fit the conspiracy narrative
Uhm no...? It's cause Tomiyasu used all the resources possible for this episode to look good instead of JN battles that mattered. Sure majority of the battles don't need to look excellent, but battles like Drasna and Raihan are not some run of the mill battles. They're essential to Ash and deserved better. Even the XY episodes didn't look good. Clemont looked eh and the less said about the Drasna battle the better. And even in these XY episodes, a lot of questionable things were done like handwaving Serena’s ribbon with no explanation, forcefully making them meet for 30 seconds and the worst of all, showing AG as base Greninja in scenes where it was actually AG. This episode was focused on the Aether family from start to finish with no weird "decisions" in the middle to question. I still appreciate that stretch of XY episodes, but it's very obvious this episode had a lot more put into it than others.
 

Sham

No longer trembling not a moment more
Don't forget that the TRio 25th anniversary episode was delayed for the Serena's episode. But I don't remember people making theories about some sort of XY favoritism.
Actually forgot about this. Quick question were you hoping that Lillie caught Nihilego instead of Gladion?
 

RafaSceptile

Well-Known Member
You're conveniently ignoring the fact that all of those XY episodes and other returns (including the first alola one) still advanced the development of Ash, Goh, and Koharu in some way (and if not developing one of the three, they still played a significant role in it), whereas this episode didn't, which I think is a reasonable complaint.

I personally think that the good in this episode more than made up for it though, and I'll only be upset if the conclusion of ash/goh/koharu arcs does not at least have the same amount of effort put into it.
There is a difference between "this episode is half a filler because it doesn't address any JN plot" and "the staff has SM favoritism". The Mohn's plot is the only plot that was deliberately left open to address it later in comparison with any other character knowing that Lillie had the opportunity to "easily" return in Journeys.
It is not having "favoritism", but it is something that was potentially planned since the end of SM. And again, people ignore stuff like the TRio's 25th anniversary episode being delayed one week just for...reasons.
 
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