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Moment of Lumiose Truth! (870)

LizardonX

Banned
Uh, people, this show is made for 8-year olds who aren't able to comprehend the myriad of illogical things it does wrong nearly every episode. Don't blow your heads over a bunny.

Their brains must have exploded when ash decided to use "advanced" tactics such as sleep talk.
 

Lord Trollbias

Y'all Salty Bishes
I fail to see how a fight that came down to the wire classifies as steamrolling over someone.
Skewing the facts fits the narrative that is trying unsuccessfully to be told
 

K.N.

Well-Known Member
If all you look at is the final result then no, Ash did not steamroll Clemont. It came down to a 1v1 of their last pokemon, again, like almost every single match they have in the anime because when you're a writer with complete control over a universe it's easy to contrive situations until the results in what you want.

While I probably liked the episode a lot more than Doryuzu did, I do have a problem with how the episode lacked a proper ebb and flow of who was at an advantage, and while it being a single episode affects it somewhat, that is not the only reason because they've done better one-episode matches before. The episode itself had Clemont talk about how his battle style's advantage comes from careful planning, so let's compare it to something that tried something very similar- the Conway battle.

When going against Conway, Ash felt like he quickly battled to a disadvantage because Conway's careful planning was controlling the match. He forced Ash to reveal all 3 of his Pokemon with just his first Pokemon. Ash got the first victory through his usual quick thinking but strategically Conway was at an advantage because he knew exactly what Pokemon Ash had, and had already damaged all 3 of them. Ash used his quick thinking again versus Lickilicky and the battle's advantage now shifted to Ash. Then Conway brought out Dusknoir and Trick Room meant Conway was again at an advantage, because his first two Pokemon were basically scouts for his final strategy. It worked really well and took out two of Ash's Pokemon before Ash once again used his quick thinking to inch out a win.

In this match, the three Pokemon Clemont chose did not have any sort of synergy like Conway's team had, and almost each time Clemont did pull out one of his preplanned strategies Ash immediately thought of a way around it (Clemont didn't even use his Wild Charge combo more than once, and Ash immediately thought of a way around Thunder Wave). Goodra being paralyzed didn't have any time to sink into the audience's view as a disadvantage because Goodra just got rid of it at the end of the match anyway. The funny thing is that Clemont getting back in charge of the match was basically through brute force rather than strategy.

I think one minor change that could've worked was if they had Clemont order Heliolisk to do a Thunder Wave on Hawlucha as he was getting kicked into the wall.
 

K.N.

Well-Known Member
Yet if Hawlucha had Limber, it wouldn't have mattered.

Obviously I wrote that hypothetical situation with the assumption that he doesn't. My point is just that it didn't feel like any of Clemont's strategies were actually putting Ash on the ropes.

If that was intentional, then I guess mission accomplished, but I really doubt that's what they wanted to convey when they had Clemont leave the group specifically because he wanted to give Ash a good battle. Ramos felt like he was a bigger challenge to Ash than Clemont was.
 

Vernikova

Champion
It was okay. The highlight of the match obviously was the lizard thing vs Hawlucha. Goodra wasn't really impresive tbh. I don't really think much of Luxray.

As a battle, I'd put it below the Viola and Grant battle but above Ramos's.
 

Soaring Pikachu

Cool Trainer
This was an interesting one. First I will give some sympathy to poor Clemont because this feels like a battle he was destined to lose. Even if the gym challenge was unsuccessful, Ash is the kind of trainer that you can rest assured would be coming back for a rematch.

Having said that, the match was decently executed. Maybe the show could have spent some more time developing the finer points but overall I would rate the result as acceptable.

It seems like the perfect chance to catch Pikachu would be after a tough gym battle but I wonder if Team Rocket has too much honor for that? Either I give them way too much credit or they were busy with something else.

Perhaps a bit rushed but an ok fight.
 

Tabasco Boshi

★★★★★
They only left three original themes for this episode including the last one we always hear (Hall of Fame)? Really? The battle felt too different... And not in a good way...

I wish I could enjoy the dub with the awesome original music.
 

Soniman

Break the Limit
Oh my gosh, it's Clemont's dad, everyone!

Serena: Good luck, you two! Everyone, let's cheer them both!

*20 minutes later, Serena worries for Ash*

Yeah, Serena should've been stoked that Ash is was potentially losing

Either way I dont see what made Viola, the first Gym Leader so amazing that I consantly see it rank highly with so many people, it was good for a first Gym but that's it imo
 

Rampardo

Well-Known Member
They only left three original themes for this episode including the last one we always hear (Hall of Fame)? Really? The battle felt too different... And not in a good way...

I wish I could enjoy the dub with the awesome original music.

This is exactly why you should stay the hell away from the awful dub. The battles get totally ruined when all the music is gone and replaced with stuff that does not fit high intensity battles at all. The dub music editors have no clue what they are doing and should be fired along with the other clowns working on it. At least there is subs so you can watch the original in all its glory.
 

Janovy

Banned
Yeah, Serena should've been stoked that Ash is was potentially losing

Either way I dont see what made Viola, the first Gym Leader so amazing that I consantly see it rank highly with so many people, it was good for a first Gym but that's it imo
Agreed. Clemont had nothing to lose by losing. If Ash lost, he wouldn't have gotten the gym badge.

IMO, makes far more sense to rot for Ash in the end even though she cheered for both of them.
 

Navin

MALDREAD
I think this Gym Battle only ranks higher than Korrina's because of the strategies while Grant's is the worst of the bunch, but it falters compared to Viola's and Ramos'.

Curious why you think Grant's is the weakest of the bunch, or at least weaker than Korrina's. Ash battled strategically in that one too.

Yeah, Serena should've been stoked that Ash is was potentially losing

Bonnie supported both of them. Clemont is also Serena's friend/companion.

Either way I dont see what made Viola, the first Gym Leader so amazing that I consantly see it rank highly with so many people, it was good for a first Gym but that's it imo

Strategic and not attack spam. Narratively forced Ash to get his act together for Kalos, and not rush into a gym cockily and without training. Brought out some needed passion from Ash. Involved the other characters.
 

Lorde

Let's go to the beach, each.
It seems like the perfect chance to catch Pikachu would be after a tough gym battle but I wonder if Team Rocket has too much honor for that? Either I give them way too much credit or they were busy with something else.

They were probably busy and I was extremely glad that they didn't interrupt the Gym match since it seemed rushed enough already. :/
 

Mr. Reloaded

Cause a pirate is free
This is exactly why you should stay the hell away from the awful dub. The battles get totally ruined when all the music is gone and replaced with stuff that does not fit high intensity battles at all. The dub music editors have no clue what they are doing and should be fired along with the other clowns working on it. At least there is subs so you can watch the original in all its glory.

It's not that they don't know what their doing, it's getting the rights to the original soundtrack that cost way more than they seem to be willing to spend on this show.

To me it's the only major flaw with the dub, well that and some laughable performances.
 

Tabasco Boshi

★★★★★
This is exactly why you should stay the hell away from the awful dub. The battles get totally ruined when all the music is gone and replaced with stuff that does not fit high intensity battles at all. The dub music editors have no clue what they are doing and should be fired along with the other clowns working on it. At least there is subs so you can watch the original in all its glory.
To be honest I don't care about the English dub because I'm from Spain and I grew up with the Spanish dub, which I consider very good and without major voice changes in 15 years. The problem is that our version comes from the English one... I also watch the sub version, of course.

I actually liked the dub music from Kanto to Sinnoh (and I feel they used more Japanese tracks) but now... It's really bad, really out of place...

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that about the music. I love the Pokémon anime music and I can't enjoy it in my language...
 
This was a really good episode. I found the battle between Ash and Clemont to be one of the best gym battles I've seen in a long time.
 
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