Most overrated character of all time!

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

You're implying that losing against Cilan is a cause for shame on Trip's part, even though Cilan had a good track record in mid-Unova, so I don't think it shows Trip in a negative light just because he lost against someone like him.

Except it makes him seem less impressive when he's beaten Ash many times and yet Ash managed to beat Cilan on his first try if I recall and once again he lost to Bianca who Ash also beat.That's why he's called the poor man's Paul.

 

[Genaller]

Could very well include XY Ash as well.He showed more progression in terms of maturity but didn't buy into the idea of him being more skilled and more powerful than when he was in the sinnoh region.It appeared Ash needed Greninja more than Greninja needed Ash.Because it's power it received had nothing to do with Ash's training and everything to do with it just being an ability called battle bond.And just look at his XY team outside of Greninja,they aren't as strong as Ash's DP team.Greninja's performances against Diantha/Alain had nothing to do with Ash's training.This is almost like the equivalence of Iris getting that powerful Dragonite but worse.

Good for you man. DP vs XY Ash in terms of trainer skill has already been discussed to the moon and back, so I’m not going in-depth here, but in brief XY Ash on average objectively displayed skill superior to that of DP Ash and XY Ash’s peak performance (vs Alain KL) is definitively superior to DP Ash’s peak performance (vs Paul SL) in terms of trainer skill displayed by Ash specifically.

Also fyi it’s an objecitve fact that Ash and Greninja did train to master the form, so your claim about it being unearned is baseless.

I’ll just leave these here:

https://forums.serebii.net/threads/xy-ash-vs-dp-ash-battling-skill.664309/

https://forums.serebii.net/threads/ashs-goat-performance-as-a-trainer.662645/

 

[Doppelgänger]

I don't think a roughly 15 second clip at the beginning of a movie, which is meant to be more fun than anything representing Diantha's strength, should be counted.

It has to, otherwise it's cherry picking evidence, creating an independent narrative of what the anime shows. Even then, I listed a whole paragraph of inconsistencies, and if you have to pull a Thomas Aquinus and line-item refute every inconsistency, the simplest, likely answer is that the XY anime director simply failed to police the production properly and prevent plot holes from opening up.

Or he's a troll.

 

[Genaller]

It has to, otherwise it's cherry picking evidence, creating an independent narrative of what the anime shows. Even then, I listed a whole paragraph of inconsistencies, and if you have to pull a Thomas Aquinus and line-item refute every inconsistency, the simplest, likely answer is that the XY anime director simply failed to police the production properly and prevent plot holes from opening up.

Or he's a troll.

The real troll here is the user I’m quoting. Already tore all of your arguments to shreds and have done so for similar arguments in the past countless times before.

 

[mehmeh1]

It has to, otherwise it's cherry picking evidence, creating an independent narrative of what the anime shows. Even then, I listed a whole paragraph of inconsistencies, and if you have to pull a Thomas Aquinus and line-item refute every inconsistency, the simplest, likely answer is that the XY anime director simply failed to police the production properly and prevent plot holes from opening up.

Or he's a troll.

I thought by this point we had all agreed that, unless shown explicitly through stuff from the movies appearing in the anime (like dawn's lunar wing from M10, Ash's aura powers from M8, or the genesect army from M16), the movies are non-canon

 

[Dragalge]

XY Ash is stronger then DP Ash! I just prefer DP Ash due to things like his interactions with Dawn and his rivalry with Paul but XY Ash is the stronger trainer!

 

[Genaller]

XY Ash is stronger then DP Ash! I just prefer DP Ash due to things like his interactions with Dawn and his rivalry with Paul but XY Ash is the stronger trainer!

You, good sir are once again an inspiration for how members over here should strive to be. I’m perfectly fine with the stance that DP Ash was a more interesting character than XY Ash (I’d even agree especially when it concerns his interactions with Paul).

 

[TheWanderingMist]

Rock-paper scissors?

I don't think Trip was meant to be Paul. He mainly gets flack for his irritating personality, which only came out because Ash kept healing his party and offering to take him out for malasadas.



All the movies are canon except for M20/M21/M22.

There's room to argue "if the movies were never referenced, they're non-canon". But all those references you mentioned plus Mewtwo Returns, The Legend of XYZ, the mirage special and Genesect movie all tie them into continuity.

Technically, only one of the Victini movies can be canon. Or maybe some weird combination of the two.

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

XY Ash is stronger then DP Ash! I just prefer DP Ash due to things like his interactions with Dawn and his rivalry with Paul but XY Ash is the stronger trainer!

Stronger how?"Ash-Greninja" had little to nothing to do with Ash's training,it's pretty much a powerup that was created because it couldn't get a mega evolution.Notice nobody considers Ash to be elite four level trainer at least when he isn't using his best team.With just his XY team he isn't considered to be on that level at all,Alain on the other hand is and he's proven it at the league and prior to meeting Ash.Yet there's been so much hype about "Ash-Greninja" and it's performances against Diantha and Alain to the point of it being at the level of an elite four or higher.

Sceptile and maybe Infernape (if you don't count it previously being with Paul) are the strongest pokemon he's trained so far as a trainer.His Charizard,Gliscor,Squirtle got strong through another source,his Snorlax was already powerful before being captured,his Greninja has "battle bond/bond phenomenon" but that is something that had nothing to do with Ash's training,in it's base form it's weaker than Charizard,Sceptile,Infernape,Snorlax and arguably Pikachu.

I don't think Trip was meant to be Paul. He mainly gets flack for his irritating personality, which only came out because Ash kept healing his party and offering to take him out for malasadas.

-Both have similar hairstyles
-Both jerk rivals
-Both keep to themselves
-Both care about getting stronger
-Both beat Ash multiple times
-Both own pokemon that know status moves and abilities
-Both have a starter that is a grass type and are their strongest

Now here's where he's the poor man's Paul
-Lost to trainers that Ash beat (Cilan) (Bianca)
-Has a significantly weaker party of pokemon
-His battling skills and ability to plan ahead are inferior
-Puts majority of his efforts on one pokemon (Serperior)

 

[PokemonBattleFanatic-]

Those are largely superficial similarities, or are common to many rival characters. There has been no rival before or after Paul who compares to him, because he's uniquely designed to foil DP Ash.

Gary was a jerk to Ash but in a fun way and plus they are childhood rivals.Paul and Trip were jerks to Ash in a different way.

Trip is his own man. He doesn't flaunt wealth, fame or pedigree like Gary did, he doesn't look up to Ash like Sawyer, he isn't edgy like Alain or Gladion. He's a talented rookie trainer who looks down on Ash due to a poor first impression.

He's only his own man until Paul joins the chat

 

[Genaller]

Lmfao Ash didn’t do jack to get access to Infernape’s special Blaze. Heck Ash was actively against training Chimchar to tap into Blaze because of Chimchar’s mental state when going into that mode. Infernape just randomly mastered it 1 fine day against Volkner cuz ‘bond power’ without any active training for it on Ash’s part yet Ash had no problem exploiting special Blaze in the SL by having Infernape deliberately take Paul’s Electivire’s Thunder.

Compared to that Ash and Greninja actively trained and struggled in order to master the A-G form which frankly makes A-G’s power far more ‘earned’ than Infernape’s special blaze (and let’s be clear special blaze isn’t just Infernape’s default ability since while under Paul he activated blaze against Roark yet it was just normal blaze).

 

[SatoSereFan224888]

I know I'm going to get hate for this but I think Lillie is the most overrated female character. To be honest, I find her bland, boring and not as cute as Serena, May, or Dawn.

 

[BTS_fan]

Really? Because BW Ash lost in what should have been an easy win for Pikachu in that 5 vs 5 battle with Trip. I agree that the first battle was bad too but tbh I find that other one just as awful since Pikachu was finally healthy again and should have been back to his usual state.

Yeah it makes me wonder how people can be so biased against Trip. That second match showed that even without Zekrom weakening his Pikachu, Ash was still nowhere near Trip's level when BW began.

 

[Epicocity]

It has to, otherwise it's cherry picking evidence, creating an independent narrative of what the anime shows. Even then, I listed a whole paragraph of inconsistencies, and if you have to pull a Thomas Aquinus and line-item refute every inconsistency, the simplest, likely answer is that the XY anime director simply failed to police the production properly and prevent plot holes from opening up.

Or he's a troll.

You are aware that the director of any given series doesn't direct the movies, right? While the plots of the movies are certainly canon, those opening "World of Pokemon" montages aren't, otherwise we'd be seeing the game protagonists with far more frequency. But in either case, Yajima directed the XY series. Yuyama directed Diancie. Two different people. Two different visions and ideas. Two different projects with minimal connection to each other. To claim Diantha vs. Wikstrom is canon evidence of a power level is baffling at best, especially since you don't even need to touch Diancie to understand a single episode of XY.

 

[Pokegirl Fan~]

Mewtwo is a pretty overrated character within the general fanbase, but I still like it nonetheless.

 

[J.Agera]

XY was the hype saga done wrong. Period.

Don't put PERIOD on something that's completely subjective.

 

[PorcelainVulpix]

Don't put PERIOD on something that's completely subjective.

Aren’t you the same person who said in another thread that SM Ash doesn’t have a personality and that’s the “truth.” Isnt that also...subjective?

 

[Doppelgänger]

You are aware that the director of any given series doesn't direct the movies, right? While the plots of the movies are certainly canon, those opening "World of Pokemon" montages aren't, otherwise we'd be seeing the game protagonists with far more frequency. But in either case, Yajima directed the XY series. Yuyama directed Diancie. Two different people. Two different visions and ideas. Two different projects with minimal connection to each other. To claim Diantha vs. Wikstrom is canon evidence of a power level is baffling at best, especially since you don't even need to touch Diancie to understand a single episode of XY.

I didn't realize that Kunihiko Yuyama directed the XY movies; it's strange, for the very reason you give. Two directors will lead to two different versions of the show, even if they're on the same page as to what they want out of it.

That said, I'm not convinced by your argument for why "World of Pokemon" is non-canon, because appearances in the movie don't rule out appearances in the main series, as was the case with Astrid.

Outside of that Diantha scene, there's nothing in those segments that would otherwise ruffle feathers, so the inconveniences that scene causes doesn't mean it should be declared non-canon. As I said earlier, we can just call it an outlier, based on Diantha's lower power level in the series proper.

But even outliers can give you information about the data set once they've been taken out, and there are plenty of other contradictions that make that scene look like a symptom of poor writing or poor supervision. It just might be a team effort rather than the work of an individual.

 

[J.Agera]

Screw her shipping with Ash. I want to see her dealing things on her own, regardless on her outcomes except for unfinished ones, than constantly depending on Ash, which is why I was looking forward for her possible Hoenn special but they didn't deliver it.

You are whining because XY didn't go according to what YOU wanted and SERENA wasn't handled according to what YOU wanted and SHE WAS Always dependent on Ash? (She wasn't)

LMAO this thread is hilarious.Everyone hates on XY when they didn't even watch the series to the end.
This is dumb.

 

[J.Agera]

Aren’t you the same person who said in another thread that SM Ash doesn’t have a personality and that’s the “truth.” Isnt that also...subjective?

Because that's the actual truth. SM Ash is a generic kids show character. You may have your own opinion but you need to back them up, which you didn't.
This discussion is not for this thread anyway.