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Most Powerful Normal Trainer

Most Powerful Normal Trainer?

  • Harrison

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Tyson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Alain

    Votes: 3 15.8%
  • Paul

    Votes: 1 5.3%
  • Tobias

    Votes: 8 42.1%
  • Ash

    Votes: 7 36.8%
  • Virgil

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Sawyer

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    19
  • Poll closed .

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
1.Tobias
GAP
GAP
GAP

2.Alain
GAP
GAP

3.Ash
4.Paul
GAP
5.Virgil
6.Tyson
7.Sawyer
GAP
8.Harrison
9.Trevor
10.Cameron
11.Barry
12.Conway
13.Katie
14.Morrison
15.Trip
GAP
16.Stephan
17.Jackson
18.Tierno
19.Nando
20.Bianca
21.Clark
GAP

22.Macy
23.Ritchie
 
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345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
Tobias IF he had a team of full 6 Legendaries, otherwise it's definitely Alain. If Darkrai and Latios were his only Legendaries/Pokemon of that calibre then Alain would definitely beat him only with his MCX, as it was at a completely different level.

But since we don't even know Tobias's full team so there is no way of confirming that he has a full team of 6 Legendaries, so I will have to go with Alain here.

@PokemonBattleFanatic-

I don't know what convinced you that there is such a big gap between Tobias and Alain.
 

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
Tobias IF he had a team of full 6 Legendaries, otherwise it's definitely Alain. If Darkrai and Latios were his only Legendaries/Pokemon of that calibre then Alain would definitely beat him only with his MCX, as it was at a completely different level.

But since we don't even know Tobias's full team so there is no way of confirming that he has a full team of 6 Legendaries, so I will have to go with Alain here.

@PokemonBattleFanatic-

I don't know what convinced you that there is such a big gap between Tobias and Alain.
You're right,Tobias is not as powerful as we thought he was,we should not assume that he had more legendaries on his team,but instead assume that he had 2 legendaries and 4 Magikarps.
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
You're right,Tobias is not as powerful as we thought he was,we should not assume that he had more legendaries on his team,but instead assume that he had 2 legendaries and 4 Magikarps.
I'm not saying that the rest of his team were a bunch of Magikarps. But it's also possible that the rest of his team could have been non-legendaries, and say Tier 2 level Pokemon, who would be fodder to the likes of MCX.
 
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Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
Ash when he's not forced to lose to a Stu from **** writing
He's taken on several legendary Pokemon and beaten them, and they weren't even with cheap tools like Mega Evolution or z-moves.
He's the only known trainer to take on Brandon and win, he beat Tobias' Darkrai where everybody else apart from Cynthia failed to. He completed the Kanto Frontier Brain challenge, become an Orange Island Champion, competed in six leagues and beaten 48 gyms(At least I think that's right, I'm not great at math...), and beat two Kahuna.

He totally could become a Champion, the writer's just want to drag his story on instead of replacing him. And most the Champions and Elite Four members tell Ash "Nah bro, I'll face ya after you win the League." so he doesn't get to battle that many.
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
Ash when he's not forced to lose to a Stu from **** writing
He's taken on several legendary Pokemon and beaten them, and they weren't even with cheap tools like Mega Evolution or z-moves.
He's the only known trainer to take on Brandon and win, he beat Tobias' Darkrai where everybody else apart from Cynthia failed to. He completed the Kanto Frontier Brain challenge, become an Orange Island Champion, competed in six leagues and beaten 48 gyms(At least I think that's right, I'm not great at math...), and beat two Kahuna.

He totally could become a Champion, the writer's just want to drag his story on instead of replacing him. And most the Champions and Elite Four members tell Ash "Nah bro, I'll face ya after you win the League." so he doesn't get to battle that many.
Loss being massively dissapointing, and giving rise to salt due to hype =/= loss being horrible writing. Alain's Mega Charizard X was first non E4/Champion Pokemon in this show to beat an E4 members' ace Pokemon on screen, nobody else apart from E4/Champions has accomplished that so far in this show, that too when the E4's ace was in its Mega Evolved form. I don't know what you're saying about Tobias's Darkrai, but it only swept Gyms and League calibre trainers, that's it. Literally any E4 member would also be more than capable of doing that(sweeping Gyms+League calibre trainers). We don't still have any direct idea/estimation of how Tobias's Darkrai would do against an E4's ace, much less against a Mega Form of an E4's ace, which Alain's Mega Charizard X faced and beat BTW.
 

ash&charizardfan

Humans are tools
GPICSS Ash is stronger than alain, if his kalos team can push alain to his limit then ash's best team will decisively beat alain. Tobias should be no 1 if he has 5-6 legendary then no 2 should be ash with his ace team, then alain then paul then others.
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
Okay unless Tobias has a full team of legendaries + powerful first Pokémon who can Mega evolve, then GPICSS/GPLICS Ash is the strongest. Also for the record Kalos Ash wouldn’t have pushed Alain to the limit had he Mega Evolvied Charizard from the start though yeah Ash with his best team should still definitely be able to beat Alain. With that in mind:

0. Tobias with a hypothetical full team
1. GPICSS Ash
2. Alain
3. Tobias with only Darkrai and Latios
4. Paul
5. Sawyer
6. Remo
7. Virgil
8. Tyson
9. Gary
10. Harrison

Beyond this point it’s too hard to rank though Tierno > Barry in both power and skill. For the record if Tobias didn’t have that powerful first Pokémon who can Mega Evolve (or in general some ME Pokémon) and only has 4 other legendaries on the lvl of Darkrai and Latios (so all of them are somewhere in S+) then:

Darkrai vs Charizard -> Draw
Latios vs KL Peakachu -> KL Peakachu
Legendary 3 vs KL Peakachu -> Legendary 3
Legendary 3 vs (Blaze) Infernape -> Draw
Legendary 4 vs Snorlax -> Legendary 4
Legendary 4 vs Sceptile -> Sceptile
Legendary 5 vs Sceptile -> Legendary 5
Legendary 5 vs Ash-Greninja -> Ash-Greninja
Legendary 6 vs Ash-Greninja -> Ash-Greninja

Giving GPICSS Ash an upper high 6-5 win. Also:

Darkrai vs Mega Charizard X -> Mega Charizard X
Latios vs Mega Charizard X -> Mega Charizard X
Legendary 3 vs Mega Charizard X -> Mega Charizard X
Legendary 4 vs Mega Charizard X -> Mega Charizard X
Legendary 5 vs Mega Charizard X -> Mega Charizard X
Legendary 6 vs Mega Charizard X -> Legendary 6
Legendary 6 vs Metagross -> Metagross

Though amusingly:

Peakachu vs Mega Charizard X-> Mega Charizard X
Ash-Greninja vs Mega Charizard X -> Draw
Charizard vs Metagross -> Charizard
Charizard vs Tyranitar -> Draw
Infernape vs Unfezzant -> Infernape
Infernape vs Weavile -> Infernape
Infernape vs Bisharp -> Infernape (Blaze may or may not activate)

I actually doubt Tobias has ME since ME wasn’t a thing back then and I also doubt that any of his Pokémon were outright over Darkrai, so I’d honestly have GPICSS Ash and Alain over him giving me:

1. GPICSS Ash
2. Alain
3. Tobias

and for the record I don’t think Paul with his best team could beat Darkrai + Latios in all honesty since there’s no way for Ursaring and Electivire to activate their abilities or maybe at best they’d force a draw.
 

mehmeh1

Not thinking twice!
Loss being massively dissapointing, and giving rise to salt due to hype =/= loss being horrible writing. Alain's Mega Charizard X was first non E4/Champion Pokemon in this show to beat an E4 members' ace Pokemon on screen, nobody else apart from E4/Champions has accomplished that so far in this show, that too when the E4's ace was in its Mega Evolved form. I don't know what you're saying about Tobias's Darkrai, but it only swept Gyms and League calibre trainers, that's it. Literally any E4 member would also be more than capable of doing that(sweeping Gyms+League calibre trainers). We don't still have any direct idea/estimation of how Tobias's Darkrai would do against an E4's ace, much less against a Mega Form of an E4's ace, which Alain's Mega Charizard X faced and beat BTW.
weren't frontier brains stated to be e4-level? If so, ash defeated not 1, but 7 E4-level trainers, 2 of which used a legendary
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
weren't frontier brains stated to be e4-level? If so, ash defeated not 1, but 7 E4-level trainers, 2 of which used a legendary
That was basically Scott hyping up his brand. It’s hard to believe that say Donphan was E4 lvl since that would make Conway an E4 lvl trainer for utterly fodderising it. I tend to think of Frontier Brains as being at a lvl between GYM Leaders and E4 with the top FBs like Brandon and Palmer being fairly close to E4 lvl.
 

PokemonBattleFanatic-

Well-Known Member
If we all considered Tobias's team being a full lineup of legendaries then that would make him the Jiren of the pokemon anime universe if not just close to that.
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
weren't frontier brains stated to be e4-level? If so, ash defeated not 1, but 7 E4-level trainers, 2 of which used a legendary
Um, no. Frontier Brains are nowhere even close to being E4 level lol. What Scott said what just basically overhyping his own brand: he owns the Kanto Frontier Brain facilities after all. If Frontier Brains are on E4 level, then are Tauros, Donphan, Corphish and Swellow, who all got wins/draws against Frontier Brains, should be considered E4 level? Yeah nice joke.

Matter of fact is that Corphish, after all its wins against Frontier Brain Pokemon, got wrecked by Nurse Joy's Chancey. So is Nurse Joy's Chancey supposed to be E4 level? Donphan, after its win against Lucy's Seviper, got fodderised by Conway in the Sinnoh League. So is Conway supposed to be an E4 level trainer?

Yeah, pretty much clear that Frontier Brains literally have no business being on par with the E4 whatsoever. Maybe they are in general stronger than Gym Leaders though.
 
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mehmeh1

Not thinking twice!
That was basically Scott hyping up his brand. It’s hard to believe that say Donphan was E4 lvl since that would make Conway an E4 lvl trainer for utterly fodderising it. I tend to think of Frontier Brains as being at a lvl between GYM Leaders and E4 with the top FBs like Brandon and Palmer being fairly close to E4 lvl.
fair enough, though seeing how brandon utterly fodderized paul (not as bad as cynthia did, but still), I'd say he is legit e4 level (though he was using all regis on him, unlike against ash)
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
fair enough, though seeing how brandon utterly fodderized paul (not as bad as cynthia did, but still), I'd say he is legit e4 level (though he was using all regis on him, unlike against ash)
Don't forget that Bulbasaur/Squirtle got 3 KO's against him, and the majority of PAD would agree that Bulbasaur/Squirtle aren't E4 level at least. Strongest Frontier Brains like Brandon/Palmer are somewhat close and could give E4 members an admirable fight but still they would definitely lose.
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
If we all considered Tobias's team being a full lineup of legendaries then that would make him the Jiren of the pokemon anime universe if not just close to that.
Yeah if any singular Pokémon deserves the title of Jiren of the pokeverse, it’s Alain’s Mega Charizard X by a mile. If Tobi’s team were all at around Darkrai/Latios lvl, then I don’t think he can beat Alain since MC-X would be nearly 2 full letter grades above each Pokémon individually a.k.a would sweep most of them before falling. I also think Ash could beat a team full of Darkrai/Latios caliber legendaries with his strongest Pokémon.
 

mehmeh1

Not thinking twice!
Don't forget that Bulbasaur/Squirtle got 3 KO's against him, and the majority of PAD would agree that Bulbasaur/Squirtle aren't E4 level at least. Strongest Frontier Brains like Brandon/Palmer are somewhat close and could give E4 members an admirable fight but still they would definitely lose.
with brandon I'm talking mostly about if there was a 6v6, the regis could probably go toe to toe with other e4's mons and maybe even aces, the other 3 maaaaaay help against the non-aces, but we've never really seen e4 non-aces, so we can't be sure
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
with brandon I'm talking mostly about if there was a 6v6, the regis could probably go toe to toe with other e4's mons and maybe even aces, the other 3 maaaaaay help against the non-aces, but we've never really seen e4 non-aces, so we can't be sure
Actually we have seen E4 non-aces and their level of power. Look at Drake's Shellgon and Altaria destroying Ash's Pikachu and Grovyle.
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
Actually we have seen E4 non-aces and their level of power. Look at Drake's Shellgon and Altaria destroying Ash's Pikachu and Grovyle.
I mean he’s right that the Regis are E4 lvl with Regirock in particular being E4 Ace lvl. Dusclops would also be E4 lvl given how it performed against BF Charizard. Hmm... maybe we’re underestimating Ninjask and Solrock.
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
I mean he’s right that the Regis are E4 lvl with Regirock in particular being E4 Ace lvl. Dusclops would also be E4 lvl given how it performed against BF Charizard. Hmm... maybe we’re underestimating Ninjask and Solrock.
Regirock would be par with lower-calibre E4 aces but still a tad below mid-calibre E4 aces. Registeel, Regice and Dusclops would be par with strong E4 non-aces that's about it. I don't think we're underestimating Ninjask and Solrock when Bulbasaur, after being a lot damaged and fatigued from the Dusclops battle, still managed to tie with Solrock battle. Ninjask and Solrock are B calibre but definitely not A calibre Pokemon.
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
Regirock would be par with lower-calibre E4 aces but still a tad below mid-calibre E4 aces. Registeel, Regice and Dusclops would be par with strong E4 non-aces that's about it. I don't think we're underestimating Ninjask and Solrock when Bulbasaur, after being a lot damaged and fatigued from the Dusclops battle, still managed to tie with Solrock battle. Ninjask and Solrock and B calibre but definitely not A calibre Pokemon.
It’s actually debatable whether it’s low or mid E4 Ace lvl since remember that even BF Sceptile would be borderline A+/S- based on the most recent scaling of the Spencer battle. It’s really a matter of how much Sceptile was nerfed in the battle due to the odd circumstances.
 
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