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Moveset Help

Z

Zip

Guest
I need help/advice on choosing a moveset and how to EV train the following pokemon. The movesets are just the ones I've thought up, I know that most of them aren't good. This team is for competitive lv. 100 double battles. Feel free to recomend completely different pokemon, so long as Charizard, Meganium, and Swampert stay. I'm also liking Kingdra paired with an electric type a lot, but w/e.

Charizard
Moves:
Outrage
Heat Wave
Sunny Day
For the fourth move I originally had Thunder Punch, but sadly Charizard can't learn that like he could in gold/silver. Charizard is supposed to be a special sweeper here.
I was thinking to EV train mainly in Defense, because he's double weak against rock, and then in Speed and Special attack (which are already rather high)

Meganium
Moves:
Solar Beam
Earthquake
Synthesis
Haven't got a fourth move yet. Probably Ancient Power. Meganium is Charizard's main battle partner, earthquake won't hit him, and solarbeam can be used on the same turn as sunny day because charizard has the greater speed. same with synthesis. Giving meganium a rock move helps to cover the only weakness they both share, ice.
Meganium has good defense already, so i was thinking of ev training for Attack and Special attack, as speed needs to stay low for the strategy with charizard. I was thinking Counter, but then i would need to EV train in HP, and i need those points for attack.


Swampert
Moves:
Earthquake
Mirror Coat
Surf
Brick Break
Most of the moves on these two are only to cover the weaknesses, I didn't put much thought into EVs or anything. So for Mirror Coat would it be better to EV train more in HP or Special Defense? I was thinking both because of his weakness, but HP would be better for Mirror Coat, would it not?

Xatu
Moves:
Drill Peck
Giga Drain
Psychic
For the fourth move I was thinking either wish or shadow ball. Shadow ball would help cover ghost types. Xatu is the ideal special sweeper speed and special attack already being the dominant stats, but i need something like drill peck to take down the grass types that threaten Swampert. Xatu can also learn Solarbeam, so i was considering that, but it wouldn't be very practical


Kingdra
Moves:
Bounce
Blizzard
Dragon Dance
Hydro Pump
Another one that would be difficult to EV train, I know. As for how I'm going to get it to learn bounce, I'm not quite sure yet, some tricky breeding with Delibird, but most people insist on it being impossible. Just presume it's possible for now. Kingdra needs Blizzard, or at least some ice move, to cover the dragon types, the only weakness. I was thinking to EV train in Special attack, and then Dragon dance would help boost the power of bounce (if i can pull it off).

Raikou
Moves:
Dig
Crunch
Thunder
Rain Dance
Yeah, another bad setup. I was going to have Kingdra with Raindance, but Raikou is faster, so it would take the same number of turns anyway. Dig, i'm not too attached that, but most people don't expect an electric type with a ground move. Also if kingdra were a different water type, it would be weak against electric and then dig would help cover it (thats what i used for a different double battle team).

and there's the three pairs. Don't worry about changing everything around, I just need a good team and I need one fast, I've got a tournament on May 6th for the 10th anniversary national championships in the US.
 

Tazzler

Well-Known Member
Doesn't include evs:

Charizard@Salac Berry
Lonely Nature
-Belly Drum
-Aerial Ace/Hidden Power [Flying]
-Fire Blast/Substitute
-Earthquake/Rock Slide

Meganium@Leftovers
Bold/Calm Nature
-Leech Seed
-Light Screen/Reflect
-Razor Leaf/Hidden Power [Grass]
-Counter/Synthesis

Swampert@Leftovers
Brave/Relaxed/Sassy Nature
-Curse
-Earthquake
-Ice Beam/Rock Slide
-Rest/Surf

Xatu@Leftovers
Timid Nature
-Calm Mind
-Psychic
-Baton Pass
-Thunder Wave/Light Screen/Reflect/Wish/Night Shade/Giga Drain

Kingdra@Lum Berry
Modest Nature
-Surf/Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Rain Dance
-Hidden Power [Grass/Electric]/Dragonbreath

Raikou@Leftovers
Timid Nature
-Thunderbolt
-Calm Mind
-Substitute/Reflect
-Hidden Power [Grass/Ice]/Crunch

Is this netbattle? If it is, repost using file-->export to text and use the hidden power options. If not, post in in-game rmt and don't use the hidden power options.
 
Z

Zip

Guest
no, its not netbattle, i don't even know what that is. This is in game, its for a real life tournament.
rmt?
should i have posted this in the other topic, because it is in game, but it's only for link battles

Look, this is for a double battle tournament, for which i am going to use my leaf green game. As such I have split the 6 into pairs. Charizard with Meganium, Swampert with Xatu, and Kingdra with Raikou. It wouldn't be practical to teach charizard earthquake, as it would hit meganium, that is why meganium knows earthquake. also charizard is good at speed and special attack, so it makes sense to take advantage of that. Maybe i'm best off just figuring out what to do with xatu and swampert on my own. As a tournament, it follows all of the official tournament rules of play, including none of the same items on the team. what i really need help with is EV sets to do, and maybe different move sets to support the EVs. Also, since they are double battles, I am welcome to suggestions for a better pokemon to replace Xatu with, or a different electric type.
sorry for the double post.

Willowwhisp thinks the edit button is for the win
 
If it's for Link Battles, it's okay here...

You might want to rid of Charizard if this is a 2v2 tournament then, because the only ideal set for Charizard was already posted and you have no Levitating or Flying-type Pokemon besides Xatu, which doesn't make a good pair with Charizard because anything packing Rock Slide owns them both.
 
Z

Zip

Guest
i said feel free to recommend completely different pokemon for xatu or raikou. yeah i replaced xatu with gengar that knows ice punch. and what is the ideal set with charizard?
 
Well, since you've got Gengar now, feel free to pair it with Charizard since it has Levitate. Charizard should look like this:

Charizard @ Salac Berry
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 112 Spd / 132 SAtk
- Belly Drum
- HP [Flying]
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast

Unfortunately there's no guarantee Salac will activate, which is why you might like Substitute somewhere.
 

DavidUm

Banned
Charizard: Hasty. Left overs or white herb(if you're using overheat.)
Moves:
dragon claw
fire blast
Sunny Day
protect
outrage is just plain sad....
protect is for any raikous that appear, and zapdos...
and Hasty at all times.
overheat!! equip white herb..
252/sp.att 252/speed 6/hp



Meganium: calm or BOld.. Leftovers
Moves:Suggested Role: Pseudopasser
Moveset: Body Slam/Safeguard/Light Screen/Reflect
You would think of an annoyer set with a Grass-type, but you can't find enough Annoyer moves in Meganium's movepool. This is the best role I can think of for Meganium. Body Slam is for paralyzing, and the rest of the moves help set up your sweepers or annoyers. Underused for good reason.
166/HP 146/def 198/sp.def


Swampert
Moves:
Suggested Role: Physical Sweeper
Moveset: Swords Dance/Earthquake/Iron Tail/filler

Evaluation: Swampert is one of the more versatile sweepers because
the filler varies widely from Trainer to Trainer, making
it hard to predict. It's basically a Quagsire with a
crappy ability but better stats and move selection.
My recommendations for the filler are HP physical,
Refresh, Counter, or even Muddy Water due to the
accuracy-lowering effect. You have a lot of options here. Ice beam for grass types who think they can type-triumph swampert.(switch when sceptile comes out)



Xatu
Moves:
Drill Peck-well I lolled!!
Giga Drain
Psychic
a crappy moveset.


MY set:Leftovers ; timid
Suggested Role: Special Sweeper
Moveset: Psychic/Calm Mind/Thunder Wave/HP Dark

Evaluation:
A little on the fragile side, but this is what I came up with.
If you can't get HP Dark, some other HP Special will also work.
Drill peck just plain sucks with xatu's low attack.


OR

Alakazam: Timid nature: brightpowder
thunderpunch or firepunch
ice punch
psychic
HP dark or calm mind
Evaluation:alakazam is only inferior to mewtwo in its stats. defense is lackluster, so be careful strong physical hits. 369 sp.att and 373 speed?
just plain WOW!! Destroy Xatu..
HP dark: for ghosts that OHKO alakazam.
Sp.att/252 speed/252 6/hp
a much better psychic.



Kingdra Modest leftovers
Moves:
HP dragon
Ice beam
Hydro pump
rain dance
This is my favorite moveset for Kingdra. Rain Dance gives it a Speed even higher than Ninjask, and its other stats are all above average. It only has one weakness, and that's to Dragon attacks. Since Dragon-types are weak to
their own type, it is tough to attack the weakness. IT's best on modest.
EV-max out on sp.att and speed.....
nuff said.....


Raikou leftovers
Moves:
substitute
Crunch
Thunder
HP water or grass or ice.
HP grass for rhydon and groudon (PWNED). crunch for mewtwo, and calm mind could basically be a filler.
EV- sp.att and speed again............
 
Last edited:
Ignore all the garbage the above poster typed...

Please list natures as well.

Zip said:
Charizard
Moves:
Naughty Nature @ Salac Berry/Leftovers
EVs: 28 HP / 252 Atk / 204 Spd / 24 SAtk
- Belly Drum
- Earthquake
- HP Flying/Aerial Ace
- Flamethrower


Meganium
Moves:
Solar Beam
Earthquake
Synthesis
-

Meganium really can't do much... I can't help you here, as I've never used Meganium... Only put Solarbeam on Chlorophyllers.

Swampert
Relaxed Nature @ Leftovers
EVs: 240 HP / 40 Atk / 14 Def / 40 SAtk / 176 SDef

Moves:
Earthquake
Curse
Ice Beam/Surf
Rest

Xatu
Moves:
Drill Peck
Giga Drain
Psychic
-

Ditch. Too fragile.

Kingdra
Moves:
Modest Nature @ Leftovers
EVs: 180 HP / 252 SAtk / 76 SDef
Rain Dance
Surf
Ice Beam
Toxic/Rest


Raikou
Timid Nature @ Leftovers
EVs: 42 HP / 216 Spd / 252 SAtk

Moves:
Calm Mind
Crunch/HP Grass/HP Ice
Substitute
Thunderbolt

By the way, this team will not stand a chance in double battles, as weather dominates the 2vs2 metagame.
 
Last edited:

DavidUm

Banned
I thought charizard's attack isn't all that bad, so I put hasty on charizard.
and alakazam's clearly a better psychic than xatu.

There is no latios moveset with psychic on smogon.com which is pretty stupid....
 
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aipomkong

prophecy fulfilled
DavidUm said:
There is no latios moveset with psychic on smogon.com which is pretty stupid....

because in uber battles, psychic is the worst attacking type there is, with there being more psychic ubers then any other type
 
Z

Zip

Guest
Hmm... I haven't been back for a while, but i reworked my team. I want charizard as a special sweeper. Please remember this is in game, not for net battle, so some of your recommendations are going to be hard to pull off.
This is my current idea, without items for the most part, because i haven't thought about that much yet. I'll explain my reasoning this time so i won't be acknowledged as a total and complete newb

First Pair:

Charizard
Nature: Modest (sp. atk +, atk -) (no phys moves, Special Sweeper)
EVs: Sp. Atk- 252, Speed- 252, Defense- 6 (most of charizard's weaknesses are physical)
Heat Wave
Sunny Day (boosts Heat Wave and enables Meganium to use solar beam on the same turn with no charge)
Outrage (more powerful than dragon claw)
And a few filler moves I can't decide on
Thunder Punch (I know the site and everywhere else says its not possible, but it was in GSC and i'm not taking it off until i see for myself.)
Hidden Power (Electric) If i'm really lucky i might be able to train him so he winds up with electric at 70, but i doubt it.
Bite (covers more types)
Blast Burn (I know that recharge moves are greatly looked down upon in the community, but its a great finisher. If only double and linked battles weren't in set mode...)

Meganium
Nature: Sassy (sp. def +, speed -)
Evs: Sp. Def- 252, Def- 132, Atk- 61, Sp. Atk- 61 (Special defense because most people go for grass types right away with fire or ice, and also in case of outrage)
Earthquake (doesn't hit charizard)
Solar Beam (good with sunny day)
Synthesis (good with sunny day)
And then I can't choose between Anceint Power or Safeguard. Safeguard would prevent confusion at the end of charizard's outrage. However, Ancient power covers flying, the only weakness in this group i don't have covered already. Unless charizard can learn an electric move, which i doubt very much

Second Pair:

Swampert
Nature: Adamant (atk +, sp. atk -) (no sp. moves, Physical Sweeper)
Item: Leftovers or Quick Claw
EVs: Attack- 252, HP- 252, Sp. Def- 6
Earthquake (doesn't hit gengar)
Rock Slide
Mirror Coat (I am correct that Swampert's sp. attack will play no part at all in the damage done by mirror coat, yes?)
And a Fighting move to cover Dark Types. Either Focus Punch or Brick Break. The only reason I even consider Focus Punch is because Gengar has Hypnosis.

Gengar
Nature: Modest (sp. atk +, atk -) (no phys moves, Special Sweeper)
EVs: Sp. Atk- 252, Speed- 129, Sp. Def- 129
Hypnosis
Dream Eater
Ice Punch (covers grass, and more types that aren't already covered than fire punch)
Thunder or Thunderbolt, which one do you recomend?

Third Pair:

Kingdra
Nature: Timid (speed +, atk -) No physical attacks
EVs: Speed- 252, Sp. Atk- 129, HP- 129
Dragonbreath (covers only weakness)
Blizzard/Icebeam (which one?)
Surf/Hydropump (again, which one?)
Rain Dance
(i gave up on bounce a while back)

Raikou
I didn't have much choice between nature and evs, he's already maxed out on Evs, and they're all pretty even
Thunder (with rain dance its really good)
Calm Mind
Crunch
And for a final physical move, either dig or iron tail. I know, dig sucks, but iron tail has crap accuracy.



By the way, this team will not stand a chance in double battles, as weather dominates the 2vs2 metagame.
and what did he mean by that?

As for abilities, I read that in emerald a pokemon holding an everstone had a chance of passing on it's ability to the offspring. This made me think that it might be possible to get a swampert with water absorb or lightning rod. Or charizard with own tempo. i guess it doesn't work that way though.
 

aipomkong

prophecy fulfilled
not abilities, natures have a chance of being passed on
 

Delta

Nazi emperor
Zip said:
This made me think that it might be possible to get a swampert with lightning rod.

lol, why does Swampert need lighting rod?

Anyway, what 0ma said, traits are fixed for pokemon, only natures have a chance of being passed
 

The Flat World

Free Trade For All
zip said:
Charizard
Nature: Modest (sp. atk +, atk -) (no phys moves, Special Sweeper)
EVs: Sp. Atk- 252, Speed- 252, Defense- 6 (most of charizard's weaknesses are physical)
Heat Wave
Sunny Day (boosts Heat Wave and enables Meganium to use solar beam on the same turn with no charge)
Outrage (more powerful than dragon claw)
And a few filler moves I can't decide on
Thunder Punch (I know the site and everywhere else says its not possible, but it was in GSC and i'm not taking it off until i see for myself.)
Hidden Power (Electric) If i'm really lucky i might be able to train him so he winds up with electric at 70, but i doubt it.
Bite (covers more types)
Blast Burn (I know that recharge moves are greatly looked down upon in the community, but its a great finisher. If only double and linked battles weren't in set mode...)

Pokemon in advance can't learn every move they could learn in GSC. Dragonbreath for example, could be learned by Charizard in GSC but not in advance. So, unless you're thinking about sharking it in, thunderpunch is not an option. And good luck trying to get 70 power electric hidden power in-game. Bite is useless because it only does 60 base damage, when an ineffective flamethrower would do 71.1 damage because of STAB. So against a Alakazam, you'd rather want to flamethrower him than bite him, as bite=60dmg, and flamethrower = 142dmg. See, you don't learn math for nothing.
And moves without 100% accuracy cannot really be considered 'good finishers'.
And Dragon Claw > Outrage, as you losing control of your pokemon is suicide. Focus Punch would be good for the last move. FP does sh*tloads of dmg even on a special attacker.


Meganium
Nature: Sassy (sp. def +, speed -)
Evs: Sp. Def- 252, Def- 132, Atk- 61, Sp. Atk- 61 (Special defense because most people go for grass types right away with fire or ice, and also in case of outrage)
Earthquake (doesn't hit charizard)
Solar Beam (good with sunny day)
Synthesis (good with sunny day)
And then I can't choose between Anceint Power or Safeguard. Safeguard would prevent confusion at the end of charizard's outrage. However, Ancient power covers flying, the only weakness in this group i don't have covered already. Unless charizard can learn an electric move, which i doubt very much

I prefer Counter/Razor Leaf/Leech Seed/synthesis... sunnybeaming is an option but not a really good one. If you insist on sunnybeaming at least give remove EQ for another move. Counter/Light Screen/Reflect are all good.

Second Pair:

Swampert
Nature: Adamant (atk +, sp. atk -) (no sp. moves, Physical Sweeper)
Item: Leftovers or Quick Claw
EVs: Attack- 252, HP- 252, Sp. Def- 6
Earthquake (doesn't hit gengar)
Rock Slide
Mirror Coat (I am correct that Swampert's sp. attack will play no part at all in the damage done by mirror coat, yes?)
And a Fighting move to cover Dark Types. Either Focus Punch or Brick Break. The only reason I even consider Focus Punch is because Gengar has Hypnosis.

Go for the standard which is Ice Beam/EQ/Curse/Rest. It's easy to get it in-game. I don't like Mirror Coat that much because once the opponent knows you have it, it doesn't work that well.

Gengar
Nature: Modest (sp. atk +, atk -) (no phys moves, Special Sweeper)
EVs: Sp. Atk- 252, Speed- 129, Sp. Def- 129
Hypnosis
Dream Eater
Ice Punch (covers grass, and more types that aren't already covered than fire punch)
Thunder or Thunderbolt, which one do you recomend?

Hypnosis + Dream Eater is the worse combo anyone can think of. The opponent can simply switch after being put to sleep, and render Dream Eater useless. I don't see why people are so obsessed about Dream Eater when it only does 10 more base dmg than Psychic, which can hit anytime. And psychic moves are pretty useless unless STABed, so go for Ice Punch/substitute/Thunderbolt/Focus Pumch. Substitute comes in short supply in-game, so Shadow Ball/Sludge Bomb can also be an option. On a pokemon with such a high special attack stat, thunderbolt always pwns thunder.

Third Pair:

Kingdra
Nature: Timid (speed +, atk -) No physical attacks
EVs: Speed- 252, Sp. Atk- 129, HP- 129
Dragonbreath (covers only weakness)
Blizzard/Icebeam (which one?)
Surf/Hydropump (again, which one?)
Rain Dance
(i gave up on bounce a while back)

Dragonbreath works, but Rest should also be considered. Always give 100% accuracy/lower dmg moves unless it's on a physical sweepr with low special attack stat. Otherwise, Blizzards and Hydrop Pumps are too risky.

Raikou
I didn't have much choice between nature and evs, he's already maxed out on Evs, and they're all pretty even
Thunder (with rain dance its really good)
Calm Mind
Crunch
And for a final physical move, either dig or iron tail. I know, dig sucks, but iron tail has crap accuracy.
No physical moves please. Give it Thunderbolt>Thunder as Kingdra won't be there forever to rain dance for Raikou. For the final move, get Substitute. If you can't, get Reflect, which will make Raikous stand up to most physical attacks, even Snorlax.

suggestions in BOLD

Someone else can do the EVs. And where are your items?
 
Last edited:
Z

Zip

Guest
i said i hadn't thought out items very much yet. And thank you. Dream eater is probably loved so much because it restores hp. And gengar can learn mean look, which would solve the switch out problem, but leaves room only for one more, so i see your point. And mirror coat is just as bad as counter in that respect, so why do you recomend counter instead?

Hmm... I was thinking about maybe replacing Raikou with jolteon, so i could ev train it, but jolteon can't learn half the moves raikou can. And i want somebody to know a move with a high chance to cause sleep or another ailment. perhaps willowisp on gengar, instead of hypnosis, or something to that extent. burn tents to do more than poison. idk. originally it was charizard and butterfree, butterfree had solar beam dream eater and sleep powder, and charizard had earthquake in the empty slot. with compoundeyes sleep powder is really good because it pretty much doesn't miss. I'll work something out, i don't really have that much time to train these guys but thanks.
 
Kingdra
Moves:
dragonbreath
ice beam
rain dance
Hydro Pump
Bounce is just another piece of trash. don't use it. Kingdra is better off with rain dance in my opinion. It also gets stab from dragonbreath. To use HP dragon in full power, you must have perfect IVs in almost everything, which is almost impossible.

Raikou
Moves:
substitute
calm mind

Thunder
HP grass

sub over dig. HP grass for ground types.
 
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