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Muhammed and Pedophilia

Discussion in 'Debate Forum' started by Woobatgirl, Oct 1, 2011.

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  1. CSolarstorm

    CSolarstorm New spicy version

    I think mattj was responding to me, since I was asking why ebilly was ignoring my point that accusing your opponent of being a hypocrite is a fallacy and does not actually refute their argument. He called mattj a hypocrite for criticizing Islam when Christianity has problems of its own, in the quote that I replied to. He used this Biblical verse to do it:

    It's actually pretty ridiculous to say that your religion has to be absolutely perfect before you criticize another one. That defeats the entire point of religion, to follow your own religion first and foremost.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2011
  2. Sadib

    Sadib Time Lord Victorious

    I think ebilly is just trying to say that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all horrible.
     
  3. mattj

    mattj .

    And that justifies Mohammad fondling little girls...
    how?
     
  4. Sadib

    Sadib Time Lord Victorious

    It doesn't. I wasn't trying to defend ebilly.

    Again, it's not plural. Debate using facts, or don't debate at all.
     
  5. TheFightingPikachu

    TheFightingPikachu Smashing!

    May I be blunt?
     
  6. Sadib

    Sadib Time Lord Victorious

    Why did you bump this topic by quoting a post from several pages ago with a rhetorical question which has no actually substance?
     
  7. TheFightingPikachu

    TheFightingPikachu Smashing!

    It was a genuine question. Which I asked several times, and which you ignored several times. May I be blunt about your statements?
     
  8. BigLutz

    BigLutz Banned

    Jesus this is still going on?

    Yes he screwed a little girl
    Yes that would make him a pedophile
    No that does not diminish him any as a prophet.

    Part of having faith is being able to overlook it's faults. Mohammad was human, he sinned as a human, and he had human desires. That does not and should not diminish his message.

    If you don't like Mohammad this is one of the long list of reasons to dislike him.

    If you do like Mohammad then your faith should be strong enough to overlook any fault for the purity of his message and what it means to you.
     
  9. mattj

    mattj .

    You're saying if Mohamed ate live babies it wouldn't make you think twice about his message.

    ?
     
  10. TheFightingPikachu

    TheFightingPikachu Smashing!

    I'd say that's big of you (no pun intended), but I disagree. It's a matter of integrity. It would be one thing if Muhammad's message was about doing good things, etc. This, as I've said before, challenges his integrity at a fundamental level. Prophets aren't just about teaching morals; he claimed to be a prophet, and I don't think his followers had to do any misinterpreting to get the idea that he believed no one was getting into Paradise without accepting him as Allah's prophet.
     
  11. BigLutz

    BigLutz Banned

    No, if you have faith in his message then you accept that. It's about faith, and if your faith is so shaken by the simple actions of the leader, and not his words, then your faith isn't that strong to begin with.
     
  12. mattj

    mattj .

    Why would you believe his message if you understand that his actions are abominable? If the hangup is Mohamed and the religion you (or anyone else) was raised in, look at another example: Jim Jones. His actions completely disqualify any message that he had. No one but the frigiest of the fringe crazies listens to this nutjob because his actions have proven that he's a nutjob. How is Mohamed any different?
     
  13. BigLutz

    BigLutz Banned

    Well in the case of Jim Jones his message and actions were tied together, as in the end his message was for everyone to kill themselves. But the thing is, if as a Muslim you are unable to get beyond one or two actions of Mohammad and allow that to completely cloud his message, then you probably have very little faith already. Like I said before if you believe he is a prophet you are willing to go beyond his human failings, if not then you like I have every right to criticize him.

    I mean to use a closer example than Jim Jones, if it was true that Martin Luther King Jr had wild sex parties like it is rumored he did. Does that mean that his message of equality and non violent resistance should suddenly be discounted? Granted many may look at him in a lower light, but that does not make his other actions any less meaningful.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2011
  14. TheFightingPikachu

    TheFightingPikachu Smashing!

    The emphasized portion is precisely true of Muhammad. The question I've asked is, "Is Muhammad's claim to be a prophet truly trustworthy?" I think the answer tends toward a negative, to put it mildly.
     
  15. mattj

    mattj .

    1) Lol no. That's a complete lie. 2) Yeah. I wouldn't listen to a word he had to say. It'd have to come from someone else.
     
  16. Sadib

    Sadib Time Lord Victorious

    Did he do that? No? Please keep this debate grounded it reality.

    How does that affect his claim of being a prophet?

    I see you still don't understand ad hominem, even though you put it in your trainer title. Since you love using Hitler as an example, I will too. Did you know that Hitler was against smoking because its ill effects on health? Does that mean smoking is actually good, because Hitler was against it?
     
  17. TheFightingPikachu

    TheFightingPikachu Smashing!

    His claim to being a prophet rests on the integrity he displayed. If I have to assume, with no evidence, that an angel spoke to him, then his claim is compromised. (You don't accept assumptions about Jesus, do you?) It looks like he abused authority he gained from having a religious following.

    This would be noticeably different if Muhammad had predicted stuff that we can check out. From what I've read, though, the Qur'an is startlingly free of prophecies that relate to anything before the end. I could be wrong about that, of course, and would welcome further information.
     
  18. Sadib

    Sadib Time Lord Victorious

    That's why it's called faith. If there were clear facts about religion, there would be no reason to have faith. There would be no debate anything. I believe that Jesus was not the son of God, but that doesn't make him not the son of God. The same with you believing that Muhammad was not a prophet, doesn't make him not a prophet.
     
  19. TheFightingPikachu

    TheFightingPikachu Smashing!

    Are you saying that the reason for your faith in one prophet rather than another is merely a matter of preference?
     
  20. 7 tyranitars

    7 tyranitars Well-Known Member

    About as trustworthy as any other from our perspective, they lived a long time ago, there is no credible proof for any prophet.
     
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