SerenaRulez
Well-Known Member
I don't like the level 5 argument either because levels are barely mentioned in the show and Professor Juniper never said that Trip's Snivy had no battle experience any way.
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My little rant on the first Trip and Ash battle (You know which one)
- Thread starter Mega Ampharos the Dragon
- Start date
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- Tags
- ash level reset pikachu theory zekrom
I don't like the level 5 argument either because levels are barely mentioned in the show and Professor Juniper never said that Trip's Snivy had no battle experience any way.
blizzardblaze
Comp. Battler Who loves The Anime
Zekrom was just jealous of a Pikachu being able to defeat a Latios so he stole his power lol so that he could force him to reset and work up to the point he was before
Or maybe Pikachu was just rusty since we don't know how long Ash took a break from taking a journey
Or maybe Pikachu was just rusty since we don't know how long Ash took a break from taking a journey
Mr.Munchlax
Great Ball Rank Trainer
Looking back at BW, I think Trip was less of a rehashed Paul and more of a rehashed Gary. He was more calculated and strategy-based like Paul, but in hindsight he had more similarities to Gary since he constantly picked on Ash while being polite to everyone else, he had a bit of a cocky attitude, and he rushed through his journey thinking only about winning the league & not stopping to fully experience anything (which emphasized with his camera gimmicks or how he never stayed until the end of the battle tournaments).
Leonhart
Imagineer
SerenaRulez said:
I agree that Shooti's Tsutarja likely had more battle experience than we were led to believe since it could've easily been a competent battler even before Araragi-hakase caught it, although I still mostly blame Zekrom's intervention for costing Pikachu the match.
Mega Ampharos the Dragon
History Nerd
I've just found evidence that Snivy had no experience. I decided to rewatch the Unova anime and in Episode 10, A Rival Battle for Club Champ, when Ash was asking Trip for a battle through the Xtransiever, Trip said "What is the point of having a battle if you lost to my Snivy, which had zero experience then"
https://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-episodes/14_10-a-rival-battle-for-club-champ/
It was around 3:21
https://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-episodes/14_10-a-rival-battle-for-club-champ/
It was around 3:21
Leonhart
Imagineer
Mega Ampharos the Dragon said:
That's the English dub's translation, but in the Japanese version Shooti said something along the lines of "battling a Pikachu who lost against a Tsutarja with little experience is meaningless". The English dub's take on that conversation makes it sound as if Shooti's Tsutarja was a complete novice, while the Japanese version implies that his Tsutarja did have experience, just not that much. It's a small distinction, but the original version made his Tsutarja seem somewhat stronger than the dubbed version did.
Twilight-Kun
Pokemon World Champion
Pikachu was shown tiring out faster from using regular moves too, so it losing its electricity meant it was far more dependent on its electricity than just using it for Electric moves
Lightning Bolt
Well-Known Member
I honestly don't know what is worse: people that are still upset over this fight or people that are still trying to defend this fight. I think it's pretty clear by now that people's problem with this fight isn't that Pikachu lost (not at all) but the absolutely bad writing with Trip overall. I mean, the writers just pulled off a freaking Zekrom from nowhere just so Ash could have a "convenient" excuse to lose. Had Zekrom be somehow important to the plot or developed an actual character to support Ash and Pikachu like Tapu Koko in SM I'm sure people wouldn't complain as much. But no, they just turned one of Unova's main legendaries into a glorified plot device and forgot about it in the spam of 3 episodes. When they finally had the chance to redeem themselves in the infamous Team Plasma's arc they just shoehorned Reshiram in it for the sake of having all legendaries in the main anime (tho they did forgot about Kyurem? BW writers had a big problem with continuity I swear). So, it's very obvious the viewers got mad because they put a Zekrom in the first episode so Trip could win and they could turn him into a generic Paul/Gary clone when they could've just made Trip lose but somehow still being a jerk to Ash like saying Ash just won because Pikachu was too strong for a weak trainer or whatever (you know, like how the jerk rivals always treat the MC as inferior even though they always lose). Or just replace Trip with Cheren or Stephan since they were better anyway.
Twilight-Kun
Pokemon World Champion
Except Trip wasn't a weak trainer and that Starter snivy already knew high-level moves and had evolved by its second appearance, so it wasn't a "true" starting pokemon
Funnily enough, early BW was filled with Pokemon using end-game moves like Flamethrower and Giga Impact, which was rather hilarious in hindsight
Lightning Bolt
Well-Known Member
I didn’t say Trip was a weak trainer, I said that, as an excuse for Trip to remain an jerk to Ash the writers could just make Trip say that Ash only won because he had a strong Pokémon despite being a bad trainer. Also, as others have pointed out here levels don't exist in the anime. Snivy knowing Leaf Storm don't really matter that much since this is an anime where Popplio and other mons just learn Surf and other TM/HMs/ naturally. And where they just learn moves they can't learn in the games. So no, Snivy knowing Leaf Storm isn't really a indicative of it's experience. He being evolved by the time of his second appearance isn't relevant either. I mean, Goomy fully evolved in the spam of 10 episodes and the aforementioned Popplio took 108 episodes to evolve into Brionne.
D
Deleted member 384931
Guest
Their whole rivalry stinks.
blizzardblaze
Comp. Battler Who loves The Anime
It stinks of bad writing?
SerenaRulez
Well-Known Member
True Trip never met his full potential and he was a jerk but not even in a funny way like Gary was. He was alot of bad traits put together without a good personality to balance him out.
shoz999
Back when Tigers used to smoke.
Did that realization came during or after you watched the battle? Why do you think so many fans complain about this battle even after they've been told about Zekrom's part to the point it's become a popular meme? After coming to this realization about Zekrom de-powering Pikachu, do you think the Pikachu vs. Snivy battle does not break your immersion or perhaps this is part of the anime's long list of mess-ups, not necessarily an error, that breaks immersion even if you account Zekrom in? To be honest, it's not even that hard to counter the Zekrom argument. You can easily counter it by reminding everyone of Pikachu's speed and offensive prowess in non-electric type moves, especially physical moves. The anime clearly states Zekrom affected Pikachu's electric power and nothing else. If you think about it, the reasoning for Zekrom is pretty lazy, especially considering that it doesn't help that they don't build upon Zekrom's appearance in the future. Yet there are still many who aren't aware of these facts and still do not care for the reasoning of Zekrom de-powering Pikachu out of nowhere. Why? To them, the Pikachu vs. Snivy argument still breaks the immersion for them that it seems like bad writing.