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My overall thoughts on the XY series (Dubbed)

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OniCornwalis

Active Member
Hello there! After watching the entirety of the XY series, both by myself and through the Twitch marathon, I'd like to say what I thought of it. This is also going to be about the dub version, because I started watching this series on a site where only the dub was available, and I didn't want to switch to sub because I had gotten used to the character's voices and didn't want to disrupt, even though the sub's music was better.

THE GOOD

Serena's character development
- Serena had a lot of really good character development throughout the series, going from being a girl who didn't know what she wanted in life and pretty timid to someone who had a clear goal and was confident in herself and willing to help others.

The battle strategies/animation- The battle animation was really good in this series, due to using the 3D camera smartly in this series and having good coreography and animation. The strategies were also pretty good, such as Rock Tomb climb and using the Meowstic's future sights back on them. In terms of the best battles, they were Ash vs Sawyer and Alain in terms of animation, and Ash vs Olympia in terms of strategy.

The family-type bond- The group in this series had a really good family structure, they all flowed well with each other, and it felt like they had known each other for their entire lives by the end of the show.

Hawlucha- While Hawlucha had only a decent battle record, his personality set him apart from the rest of the Pokemon in the group. He could be serious at times, at other times stoic, and midway through the series he even became a surrogate dad for Noivern! Easily in the top 10 for Ash's best Pokemon by personality.

Team Flare Arc- The Team Flare Arc managed to resolve everyone's stories in a very nice way, and gave everyone a decent amount of screen time. The scene where all the gym leaders fought off the giant stone thing at the end was also really cool.

Sawyer- Sawyer was a pretty cool character who looked up to Ash and learned from him, as a kind of student to teacher relationship. Eventually, though, Sawyer surpassed him and Ash had to play catch up, which was a really cool dynamic to see.


THE MIXED

Goodra's arc
- Goodra had a really great arc where he transitioned from being extremely weak to a powerful figure that managed to help solve the issue in the marshland. However, his journey felt somewhat rushed, and should've lasted for a couple more episodes instead of just rushing him out the door when Clemont's gym battle was over.

Clemont's character growth- For the first half of XY, Clemont got a lot of character growth where he learned how to be a better gym leader and person through the rest of the group's help, and came out stronger by the end of it. However, in the second half of the series, he got barely any focus except for a couple of filler episodes and dealing with Bonnie.

All of the other animation- All of the animation outside of the big battles was really meh, as the characters stayed really static and in model for most of the series, and there was a lot of reused animation, such as Gourgiest's shadow ball and Bunnelby's mud-shot. It wasn't terrible by any means, but it could've been way better then what we were given.

Alain- While Alain was a pretty cool character, having two different sides to him, one where he was a nice guy and one where he was pretty evil in order to save Chespie, there were two big problems with him; One, he was fully introduced way too late into the main series, only coming 19 episodes before the league. 19!!! I don't care if he was in the Mega Evolution specials, having him meet the cast that late and interacting with them twice before the league is really bad pacing. The other big issue was how OP his Charizard was, and how it swept everybody in the league and presumably every gym battle before facing Ash, where he almost seemed to regenerate health during there.

The league- Here's the thing about the league; in terms of animation, the battles against Sawyer and Alain was some of the best in the anime, hands down. However, there were some very questionable things in those battles, even ignoring the ending vs Alain. For starters, there was barely any switching out in both battles. When Sawyer brought out Clawitzer aginst Ash's Talonflame, Ash should've immediately switched out to Pikachu, but didn't. When Pikachu was brought out, Sawyer should've switched to another Pokemon, but didn't. Ash's entire strategy with Goodra was just 'LOL, use Bide'. Then there was the time when Hawlucha dancing on ice gave it armor versus Alain, or how when Pikachu threw the piece of wood at Aegislash, the wood defied gravity. Then there was the whole incident with the Furfrou trainer and how it took attention away from the Mega Charizard battle happening in the background, and Ash's first three rounds were skipped entirely. Were there some good strategies in that fight? Yes, such as Noivern searching for Salamence through the fog using supersonic. However, for the most part, this league was very mixed and overall worse then the Hoenn and Sinnoh leagues.

The Bad

Showcases
- Was Serena's character growth good? Yes. Was the animation solid for the most part? Yes. Were showcases well thought out and had a lot of effort put into them? Nope. The whole thing was a popularity contest, as the audience voted, and their votes weren't necessarilly for the best one, as indicated by when Aria won the Master Class even when her performance was worse then Serena's. It also sucked that we didn't get to see Jessie, who is a main character in the show, win her other two keys on screen. Finally, the theme performances were very lackluster, as most of them were either pretty bland, such as the poke puff baking performance, or just plain rigged, like Rhyhorn herding.

Team Rocket- Yes, it's true that Team Rocket had their moments, such as episode 107, episode 57, and episode 82. For the most part though, they only served to create artificial conflict or were shoved in when they shouldn't have in order to pad out episodes, like episodes 18, 46, 36, 66, 85, 104, 115 and 118. This was honestly their lowest point in the entire franchise, as they were both shoved into episodes where they weren't need AND didn't have the humor that made them tolerable in earlier seasons when they were put into every episode.

Final Thoughts

Overall, the XY series was a very enjoyable experience for the most part. Things like the gym battles, the group dynamic, Goodra's arc, Hawlucha, the battle animations and the Team Flare arc were awesome, but things like Showcases and Team Rocket brought down the enjoyment level for me. For me personally, this series is behind DP and SM for me, as DP did what XY did but better in every department except for animation and the evil team, and SM due to things like its world-building, the least amount of filler episodes in the series, improved animation overall from XY, and lessening of Team Rocket in episodes. I can completely understand if XY is your favorite series, but just make sure to also look at both the good and bad points of the series.

PS- Can someone tell me if there was going to be a final episode planned for the Malamar arc, or did it end on a cliffhanger?

PPS- Hopefully this doesn't break any rules. I'll be happy to edit it or post it somewhere else so that it doesn't.

Best gym battle- Ash vs Olympia and Ash vs Wulfric
Worst gym battle- Ash vs Ramos

Favorite episodes- The Team Flare arc, episodes 69 and 70, episode 19, episode 9, episode 78, episode 99 and 100, episode 105, and any episode where Hawlucha is the focus.

Least favorite episodes- Episode 14, episode 59, episode 45, episode 46, episode 92, episodes 95-97, episode 114, episode 111, episode 109, episodes 125 and 126, and episode 62.
 
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satopi

Life doesn’t end, …it changes.
Great review on the series in total.

No, there is no episode planned for the Malamar arc. It ends on a cliffhanger back then, we were speculating that it belonged to Xerosic but that ended up not being the case and we’re supposed to forget about it like the GS Ball.
 
Should have watched in sub imo

Overall decent review, I personally don't think DP's group dynamic was up too par with Brock being a cardboard nothing character. DP gets cred for having the best developed rival and a hugely extensive league, but like a lot of battles pre-XY, the battles don't have the same watch ability. Interested to know what you think DP did better other than that.

But this:

SM due to things like its world-building, the least amount of filler episodes in the series,

Wat? What is your classification of the term filler?
 

OniCornwalis

Active Member
Should have watched in sub imo

Overall decent review, I personally don't think DP's group dynamic was up too par with Brock being a cardboard nothing character. DP gets cred for having the best developed rival and a hugely extensive league, but like a lot of battles pre-XY, the battles don't have the same watch ability. Interested to know what you think DP did better other than that.

But this:



Wat? What is your classification of the term filler?

When I talk about filler, it's episodes that are self contained and don't add anything to later episodes. Examples of non filler episodes are ones that give a new move, introduce a character that's seen later on, someone catching a Pokemon, or a Pokemon evolving. A Pokemon debuting does NOT count. For example, the Noibat vs Breloom episode would've been filler if Noibat hadn't learned Acrobatics, and episode 11 would've been filler if Jessie hadn't caught Pumpkaboo. With SM, episodes like the initial Orangoru episode and the first episode with Viren would've been filler if not for them appearing later on in the series. You can find the list I used to determine it at a website called animefillerlist.com . Note that there some inaccuracies here and there, but it's correct for the most part. Also, LOL at the amount of filler in Johto.

For DP, the things that I think it does better that you haven't listed yet are:
1) Dawn's character arc. She had the same magnitude of growth as Serena, where she went from being a hot-headed trainer who was too proud and couldn't take losing easily to someone who was more humble and willing to go through challenges with a more positive outlook on life. She also had her goal from the beginning, unlike Serena, who got hers 40 episodes in and had her goal rushed as a result.
2) While Team Rocket was in every episode this series unlike XY, the conflict they created felt a lot more organic if that makes sense, and in the times where it wasn't, they had more humor that allowed them to be more bearable. Just look at episodes 23 and 62 of XY if you want more proof.
3) All of the rivals Ash and Dawn had were introduced somewhat early in the series and were frequently in episodes throughout the series. The only exceptions were Conway and Ursula, who only appeared two times before their respective end tournaments. However, both of Conway's appearances were multi-part and Ursula's second appearance was multi-part as well, so Conway was featured in 7 episodes and Ursula in 3. They both also had unique personalities outside of just being shipping fodder and really just THERE for the sake of being a rival like Miette and Nini were.
4) DP also had way more callbacks to previous series, such as May and Gary returning. They also mattered to the story a lot, such as how May got Dawn out of her funk, or how Gary helped Ash out with his problems with Gligar.

There are probably more things I'm missing, but those are the ones I could think of right now.
 

TheWanderingMist

Paladin of the Snow Queen
I think we already have a thread for this kind of thing under episode discussions.
 

Kintaro

Banned
Team Rocket definitely got overused in XY, it was a shame they appeared in virtually every episode again especially for most of the series. If they cut back on TR, XY would have been even better.
 

Vixzey

Member
I agree with most of OP, generally good storylines and development, and many good battles.
The contests could definietly have been executed better imho.

What I disliked the most of XY is the overuse of TR and Clemonts inventions backfiring.
I also felt Alains role was introduced late and poorly, especially since the Mega-specials was unavailable in my country (even when the series was on Netflix).

I also must admit, I miss from earlier generations that we see Ash and his party catch/evolve and utilize more Pokemon, both new and older ones.
I understand it would mean not all would get as much screentime and personality development, but I really miss more diversity in the casts Pokemon, Ash getting a maximum of 5 new Pokemon in a generation (due to Pikachus slot) is rather boring, especially when he doesn't even call in reserves for overcoming tough Gym / League opponents...
 

U.N. Owen

In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
I have many negative thoughts on the series, but just my thoughts on the dub alone, it was grating. As in it was awful to hear Sawyer speak. Sure, I just heard Pikachu speak whenever he spoke in Japanese, but at least he sounded like a child. Then there is their awful choice to replace "megalith" with "big rock." Are you kidding me? How do you expect me to not laugh at "big rock?" At least megalith sounds ancient and mystic even if it is a pun.
 

Apslup

Feelin' Fine.
I mostly agree with evrything you're saying. I think Alain is a really good rival and his relationship with Ash contrasts well with Sawyer's relationship with Ash (but most of what I like about him comes from the Mega Evolution Specials).

I really didn't like Goodra's arc though. Ash has a fully evolved pseudo-legendary? Awesome! Oh, we're going to waste him by keeping in the wetlands for the majority of the series and when we bring him back for the League he's going to completely suck? What?

Also Noivern was so wasted. After he evolved he was hardly used and when he was used (specifically in the League) it was just used as motivational fuel for Hawlucha.

Also XY is so much better subbed. The music is a lot better and I personally don't like a lot of the English voices in XY.
 

Kintaro

Banned
Ash always has underused pokemon each saga. It's not fair to downplay Goodra or Noviern when Ash had a number of poorly used pokemon every saga. Torkoal from AG says hi.
 

Ryu Taylor

Unwavering beliefs. Richter Taylor is my name now.
All I can say is that this saga is 90% the reason I'm a dub fan and JP version/sub hater, and that's the way it'll always be.
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
This dub is what made me start to watch subs.
I couldn't stand anybody apart from Korrina and Miette in the dub. And pre-existing characters... but those are the only new ones who didn't hurt to listen to. Sawyer and Lysandre were by far the worst, didn't help I don't like either of them...... at all.


I only watch the dub now for the TRio and Kiawe, the best parts of the SM dub. It feels like their actors actually enjoy it
 

Kintaro

Banned
All I can say is that this saga is 90% the reason I'm a dub fan and JP version/sub hater, and that's the way it'll always be.

The dub music was at its absolute worst this saga. The music in the dub was still semi-decent for AG and DP, but after that TCPi went nuts. All the big battle or emotional scenes of XY were completely soured by the dub. It's also the reason some people think XY feels "bland" in terms of group dynamics or humor, they watched the wrong version. The fact that as bland and pointless as Brock was in DP, people feel the DP trio had good chemistry because of the dub is mind blowing to me.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
I think the XY dynamic was bland in the sense they lacked a lot of chemistries. Ash like in BW felt a bit too much of a stonewall, not bouncing off of anyone, Clemont and Serena only had sporadic moments together, and everyone kinda got on a bit too placidly. This only got worse as the series continued and it become more primarily goal focused, leaving everyone feeling a bit too self contained. The Pokemon had some cool exceptions, but only up until they evolved and lost their personalities. It makes sense the series after focused primarily on trying to mend this, if sometimes at the cost of XY's better points like better pacing and individual arc focus (each series post-DP feels like a step forward, step backward approach).

I think this is also the reason that TR felt at their worst this series since they were mostly just there to butt into stories the twerps weren't interesting enough to hold on their own (ie. the large majority of non-main arc/goal plots), despite them no longer even being mandated for each episode they were still shoehorned in constantly to cut stories short because they didn't have a proper ending, and while BW had slowly worked out a medium with TR where they had both a funny chemistry with the twerps again and a bit of their former menace for fun face offs, XY slowly reversed into them having NEITHER and being pretty incompatible and dull against the protagonists (SM suffered this issue for a long time as well, though seems to be gradually on the mend, and at least used TR far more sparingly up until then).
 
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Pokegirl Fan~

Liko>>>>>Ash
Imo the group dynamics were bland in both the dub and original. I just didn't see anything that interesting, maybe the Serena and Bonnie interactions, but that was it for me.

As for the dub' s soundtrack it was pretty boring as well. I felt like most of the soundtrack didn't quite fit the scenes and it occasionally came off as elevator music.
 

Ryu Taylor

Unwavering beliefs. Richter Taylor is my name now.
The dub music was at its absolute worst this saga. The music in the dub was still semi-decent for AG and DP, but after that TPCi went nuts. All the big battle or emotional scenes of XY were completely soured by the dub. It's also the reason some people think XY feels "bland" in terms of group dynamics or humor, they watched the wrong version. The fact that as bland and pointless as Brock was in DP, people feel the DP trio had good chemistry because of the dub is mind blowing to me.

I watched this saga dubbed and got the strongest reaction out of it. The music was perfectly fitting in all but maybe five parts (and seriously, to say the emotional moments in the dub were ruined by emotional music (Espurr's flashback, Serena's haircut, Squishy going back to the sun, Ash returning home, etc) is to say emotional moments shouldn't have emotional music), and the group dynamics were just fine even despite TPCi mostly still relying on overly-literal translations (and sorry to break this to you, but the JP script is infinitely more bland than any dub script ever was). So kindly dispense with that "watched the wrong version" bullshit (and by the way, fandom nonsense like this is the remaining 10% of the reason I'm pro-dub and anti-JP version/sub). No one is obligated to enjoy the JP version, nor are they obligated to even watch it.
 

UltimateNinja

Praying for the holy relics
Whatever they were thinking with the XY dub, it's absolutely horrible. Pretty much 90% of the original ost was replaced with peaceful background music you barely even notice, because they absolutely doesn't fit the situation. Remember the Laverre City ost in the Oak summer camp flashback between Ash and Serena? Gone for no reason. The battle ost in any gym leader battle? Gone. Soundtracks for emotional scenes like when Clemont reprogrammed Clembot? Gone.

If you can't replace fitting ost with some same good ones, then don't even dare doing that.
 
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Ryu Taylor

Unwavering beliefs. Richter Taylor is my name now.
Whatever they were thinking with the XY dub, it's absolutely horrible. Pretty much 90% of the original ost was replaced with peaceful background music you barely even notice, because they absolutely doesn't fit the situation. Remember the Laverre City ost in the Oak summer camp flashback between Ash and Serena? Gone for no reason. The battle ost in any gym leader battle? Gone. Soundtracks for emotional scenes like when Clemont reprogrammed Clembot? Gone.

If you can't fitting ost with some same good ones, then don't even dare doing that.

Again, who are you calling "you"? I noticed everything, so speak for yourself.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
I feel like they should have at least kept most of the games tracks, a compromise to keep the series' identity with the games much like the original Kanto dub did (which still had plenty of original dub tracks). I get tracks like the Snowbelle theme for every sad scene were kind of overdone, but I see no reason they couldn't have kept it ONCE at least. I'm sure plenty of western fans would have loved that bit of fan appeal.

Stuff like omitting even the tracks they kept in previous series or even current ones outside of specific cirumstances (eg. using the Team Rocket themes but ONLY for the motto) also seemed spurious (made Jessie's final performance far less intense). It's like the odd handful of tracks they DID keep were under a mandate or something to keep some leitmotif going, and that is the only reason they weren't thrown out as well. You bought the copyright to this music, why not at use some of it more plausibly, especially in cases where some of your alternatives don't always fit?

SM is annoying me for the same reason. Some of the new tracks do sync better, but cases like taking out Lillie's theme was absurd. It's her actual leitmotif from the games!!! What? Did they seriously go "Nahhh, that doesn't fit her, no one wants to hear that, take it out and replace it with generic tech music"? (Granted they've made practically everything else about Lillie out of sync with the original edit anyway).
 
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