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My Planned VGC12 Team...

Wzmrvo

Member
After practising with my old '11 Trick Room Team and losing ALL battles online against mostly the Japanese, I realized that I need a new team. I've been researching a little bit and came up with something:

Slaking
Adamant, Truant (+A, -SA)
Leftovers/Sitrus Berry?
252HP/252A/6D
Return/Body Slam
Earthquake
Aerial Ace
Pursuit

Basically after hitting a certain ally with Aerial Ace to get rid of that horrible ability, it can happily go to town with Pokemon on the ground. Also Pursuit is nice to have against Ghost Types. I was thinking about a possible 252HP/128A/128D/6SD to get a little bit more bulk, but also to have Substitute and Bulk Up along with Aerial Ace and Return, but not sure.

Since I didn't seem him in the Restriction List...

Regigigas
Adamant (I wished, but since I only have the one with Quirky, it'll have to do...)
Muscle Band
252HP/252A/6SD or 252HP/128A/128D/6SD
Thunderpunch
Drain Punch
Ice Punch/Zen Headbutt
Return/Strength

When this one gets his ability taken away by a friendly Aerial Ace, (hopefully, if the effects of Slow Start still isn't in place after the ability is taken away) it will deal with Pokemon in the air as well as something to use against certain weather teams as well as having something for Fighting types. Drain Punch not really ideal so I read, but since its the only healing Regigigas can have, its something.

Kingdra
Adamant, Sniper
Lum Berry
52HP/252A/206Sp
Outrage
Dragon Dance
Waterfall
Substitute

My back-up plan in case Slaking and/or Regigigas get taken down. Good to have Substitute to perform a Dragon Dance or two, then go to town with Outrage in any weathered battle or Waterfall in someone's-already-set-up Rain.

Hydreigon
Modest
Flying Gem/Other Item
52HP/252SA/200Sp
Dragon Pulse
Dark Pulse
Flamethrower
Acrobatics/Fly

My Kingdra stunt-double Pokemon, just in case I want something decently bulky all round and to hit hard and fast. I want it to have SOME HP and don't really want to use Life Orb as I want to save his HP, plus I want his attacks to be accurate, cover any weaknesses and not reduce any stats. Although I suppose I could use the Life Orb, but replace Acrobatics/Fly with Protect against Fighting moves.

Chandelure
Flash Fire
Modest (-A, +SA)
Quick Claw
52HP/252SA/200Sp
Heat Wave/Overheat
Shadow Ball
Psychic/Imprison
Energy Ball

My sweeper, to clean up the fight if possible. Relying on IV Speed, Quick Claw gives me a little more hope in going first. I don't want my Chandelure to be a Scarfer as I might run out of Pokemon to switch plus he might have to do the same old move against someone who can KO me easily in that scarfing predicament. Flash Fire just in case the opponent thinks Chand has Flame Body I suppose.

And to end it off with the Pokemon that starts this possible strategy (if it isn't too obvious by now)...

Cofagrigus
Mummy
Timid (-A, +D)
252HP/128D/128SD/6SA
Power Split/Disable
Ominous Wind/Shadow Ball
Hex
Toxic

Basically, takes a physical hit from Regigigas or Slaking, then is called back. With only two remaining Pokemon in my team left, this should be one of them. Steal SOME of the opponents A and SA (or disable a team/pokemon-dependent move) and then just rely on Cofa's bulk, while my remaining attacker/s.attacker/sa.sweeper helps out.

Anyway, that's my best research so far, but probably has some holes which is why I'll be relying on you for suggestions and advice, thanks :)
 

jstinftw!

hey trainer
Reserving my spot cos I wanna say that I reviewed first. :)

I'll be back sometime today, once the workload lightens up a bit. A bit of a precursor to what I'm about to say, this is definitely an interesting idea. I've been playing around with a Slaking idea for a while, though he's nowhere nearly slow enough for my kind of team. This team should be called, "Slow Start." hahah
 

Wzmrvo

Member
Thank you for the precursor opinion :) I'll look forward to any changes you might think would help. Plus I realize I haven't thought of an item for Cofa...
 

SilentOmen

Shadow of Prophecy
I'd pick either Slaking or Regigigas. Neither one offers the team anything that the other one doesn't. They both have a nice move pool and they both share a fighting weakness.

Outrage on Kingdra isn't so great a move in VGC since it randomly selects an opponent. Just something to consider there. In VGC, Kingdra is finding a better role for special attacking with Swift swim as an anti rain measure.

Hydreigon isn't really doing anything with Acrobatics / Fly even with the flying gem. you've selected a negative nature for it's attack stat and most fighting types have enough physical bulk to withstand a hit while Drain Punching you afterwards. I'd opt for another move like surf or protect.

SPEAKING of protect, where is it on your team? Protect tends to be a MAJOR component to double battles.

Chandelure is popular in the VGC. That in mind, remember that there will be A LOT of choices meant to counter it. Quick Claw isn't a reliable item choice. Life Orb can give you more power, Air Balloon can get you out of harm's way of an earthquake and give you a safe switch in.

Cofagrigus will not benefit from having toxic on this team. You have a very offensive team and no protect spread. This means buying time isn't available. Add to that the fact Cofagrigus has no recovery available outside of rest, you will find yourself stuck. Will-o-Wisp will at least let your team absorb more hits from the physical threats plaguing the game. Add to the fact it has better synergy with hex, you can do a bit more. Although, I find hex situational and think THIS is the place to put in protect for Cofagrigus. With protect in there, I'd give Slaking the Lum Berry (to cover paralysis) so Cofa can use leftovers. I'd also use Disable over Power Split.
 

Wzmrvo

Member
I'd pick either Slaking or Regigigas. Neither one offers the team anything that the other one doesn't. They both have a nice move pool and they both share a fighting weakness.

Outrage on Kingdra isn't so great a move in VGC since it randomly selects an opponent. Just something to consider there. In VGC, Kingdra is finding a better role for special attacking with Swift swim as an anti rain measure.

Hydreigon isn't really doing anything with Acrobatics / Fly even with the flying gem. you've selected a negative nature for it's attack stat and most fighting types have enough physical bulk to withstand a hit while Drain Punching you afterwards. I'd opt for another move like surf or protect.

SPEAKING of protect, where is it on your team? Protect tends to be a MAJOR component to double battles.

Chandelure is popular in the VGC. That in mind, remember that there will be A LOT of choices meant to counter it. Quick Claw isn't a reliable item choice. Life Orb can give you more power, Air Balloon can get you out of harm's way of an earthquake and give you a safe switch in.

Cofagrigus will not benefit from having toxic on this team. You have a very offensive team and no protect spread. This means buying time isn't available. Add to that the fact Cofagrigus has no recovery available outside of rest, you will find yourself stuck. Will-o-Wisp will at least let your team absorb more hits from the physical threats plaguing the game. Add to the fact it has better synergy with hex, you can do a bit more. Although, I find hex situational and think THIS is the place to put in protect for Cofagrigus. With protect in there, I'd give Slaking the Lum Berry (to cover paralysis) so Cofa can use leftovers. I'd also use Disable over Power Split.

Hmm... now that I think about it, Slaking OR Regigigas is probably a better idea than having both of them out there at once since it will take a couple of valuable turns just to make them both lose their abilities, at the same time getting hammered or punched. Paralysis can ruin Slaking then? Hmm... Lum Berry it is.

Ahhh damnit, I thought Outrage was a selective-target move, didn't know it could hit any opponent Pokemon randomly. SA Kingdra would definitely have to do. Maybe stick in an accurate Ice Beam for Salamence.

See, I would have thought the Flying Gem would be enough for Acrobatics/Fly Hydreigon, but really? It wouldn't be enough? I'd have to go with Surf then, if my Chand isn't out. To be honest, I'm not really a fan of Protect moves as in my personal opinion it delays the inevitable 50% of the time. But I could go with what I said and use Protect against Fighters.

I had a ponder earlier and could throw in a Ferrothorn instead of Hydreigon. Highly defense, annoying, could attach Bulldoze and Protect to it.

Air Balloon Chand actually sounds like a great idea!

See, I was heavily relying on the bulk for staying alive for most of my team, but it seems that's probably not wise. Maybe ChestoRest Cofa sounds like a good idea, maybe with Hex, Will-o-wisp and HP Fighting? (As I heard its good coverage and now I see why: Steel)
 

SilentOmen

Shadow of Prophecy
Hmm... now that I think about it, Slaking OR Regigigas is probably a better idea than having both of them out there at once since it will take a couple of valuable turns just to make them both lose their abilities, at the same time getting hammered or punched. Paralysis can ruin Slaking then? Hmm... Lum Berry it is.

Ahhh damnit, I thought Outrage was a selective-target move, didn't know it could hit any opponent Pokemon randomly. SA Kingdra would definitely have to do. Maybe stick in an accurate Ice Beam for Salamence.

See, I would have thought the Flying Gem would be enough for Acrobatics/Fly Hydreigon, but really? It wouldn't be enough? I'd have to go with Surf then, if my Chand isn't out. To be honest, I'm not really a fan of Protect moves as in my personal opinion it delays the inevitable 50% of the time. But I could go with what I said and use Protect against Fighters.

I had a ponder earlier and could throw in a Ferrothorn instead of Hydreigon. Highly defense, annoying, could attach Bulldoze and Protect to it.

Air Balloon Chand actually sounds like a great idea!

See, I was heavily relying on the bulk for staying alive for most of my team, but it seems that's probably not wise. Maybe ChestoRest Cofa sounds like a good idea, maybe with Hex, Will-o-wisp and HP Fighting? (As I heard its good coverage and now I see why: Steel)

On the idea of replacements, have you considered a Worry Seed Prankster Whimsicott? The ability to get priority on Worry Seed to change Slaking's ability is also a great benefit. It's something to consider. It also doesn't waste Slaking's turn hurting it's team mate.

Ferrothorn could be okay, but I find that you'll want to make it an offensive set. Because of how VGC plays out, being bulky won't entirely save you if both opponents hammer away at you.

Scarftrick Rotom can mess teams up too. Since choice items aren't as popular in doubles, it can really screw up your opponent's strategy. I'm just tossing a few neat ideas to play with.

Also, paralysis isn't the only thing lum berry fixes for slaking. Burns are very unpleasant too. Also, if you can pull off a worry seed on Slaking, sleep will become a non issue.
 
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Wzmrvo

Member
On the idea of replacements, have you considered a Worry Seed Prankster Whimsicott? The ability to get priority on Worry Seed to change Slaking's ability is also a great benefit. It's something to consider. It also doesn't waste Slaking's turn hurting it's team mate.

Ferrothorn could be okay, but I find that you'll want to make it an offensive set. Because of how VGC plays out, being bulky won't entirely save you if both opponents hammer away at you.

Scarftrick Rotom can mess teams up too. Since choice items aren't as popular in doubles, it can really screw up your opponent's strategy. I'm just tossing a few neat ideas to play with.

Also, paralysis isn't the only thing lum berry fixes for slaking. Burns are very unpleasant too. Also, if you can pull off a worry seed on Slaking, sleep will become a non issue.

Hmm... SleeplessKing might be effective, but wouldn't Mummy be a threat to the opponent's abilities? Well I suppose Mummy wouldn't do much to weather setups as a Pokemon with a weather ability automatically makes it Drought/Drizzle/Sand Stream as soon as the battle starts. Although Mummy can ruin other important abilities...

Wouldn't Whimsicott be a bit frail in HP/Df/SD? Sure its fast (and I could stick Hurricane on it for Rain setups as well as Giga Drain for recovery) but what else can it do to prevent itself from getting OHKO?

Now that I actually know what Trick does (lol you can tell I don't research enough), that might be actually devastating... depends on what the Pokemon is and what move they're gonna do.
 

SilentOmen

Shadow of Prophecy
Hmm... SleeplessKing might be effective, but wouldn't Mummy be a threat to the opponent's abilities? Well I suppose Mummy wouldn't do much to weather setups as a Pokemon with a weather ability automatically makes it Drought/Drizzle/Sand Stream as soon as the battle starts. Although Mummy can ruin other important abilities...

Wouldn't Whimsicott be a bit frail in HP/Df/SD? Sure its fast (and I could stick Hurricane on it for Rain setups as well as Giga Drain for recovery) but what else can it do to prevent itself from getting OHKO?

Now that I actually know what Trick does (lol you can tell I don't research enough), that might be actually devastating... depends on what the Pokemon is and what move they're gonna do.

Every strategy has it's lumps. Cofagrigus won't be too durable either after Slaking hits it with Aerial Ace. Whimsicott does lack bulk, but it gains by being the fastest Prankster to use. A focus sash can remedy some thing, cotton guard can also increase Whimsicott's bulk. Never forget the value of a quick priority Status move either (Stun Spore). However, if you are sincerely worried about bulk, there are bulkier grass types that can learn worry seed. Ferrothorn through breeding is my best example.

As for strategy, here is why each use has it's good and bad.

Worry Seed : It doesn't cost Slaking a turn to set up itself. Slaking can start with an attack on the opponent with it's mammoth attack and cause some damage. You won't have an ability in mummy, but you won't be a target for spore users like breloom, or sleep powder threats like Venusaur (sun teams for a yay). With a Worry Seed user, you won't need Aerial Ace and can fill it with a more devestating attack.

Mummy: you can cost some pokemon important abilities with mummy. However, it costs Slaking a set up turn. It also means Slaking has to hurt Cofagrigus, which can be costly in doubles where Earthquake and Heat Wave are ever present. Cofagrigus may not survive the first round, where Slaking will also be pinched from such damaging moves before it's even started it's brutal assault.
 

Wzmrvo

Member
Every strategy has it's lumps. Cofagrigus won't be too durable either after Slaking hits it with Aerial Ace. Whimsicott does lack bulk, but it gains by being the fastest Prankster to use. A focus sash can remedy some thing, cotton guard can also increase Whimsicott's bulk. Never forget the value of a quick priority Status move either (Stun Spore). However, if you are sincerely worried about bulk, there are bulkier grass types that can learn worry seed. Ferrothorn through breeding is my best example.

As for strategy, here is why each use has it's good and bad.

Worry Seed : It doesn't cost Slaking a turn to set up itself. Slaking can start with an attack on the opponent with it's mammoth attack and cause some damage. You won't have an ability in mummy, but you won't be a target for spore users like breloom, or sleep powder threats like Venusaur (sun teams for a yay). With a Worry Seed user, you won't need Aerial Ace and can fill it with a more devestating attack.

Mummy: you can cost some pokemon important abilities with mummy. However, it costs Slaking a set up turn. It also means Slaking has to hurt Cofagrigus, which can be costly in doubles where Earthquake and Heat Wave are ever present. Cofagrigus may not survive the first round, where Slaking will also be pinched from such damaging moves before it's even started it's brutal assault.

Hmm... thanks for giving me a lot to think about. This really helps. Also I might have to pick Pokemon that aren't that obvious. I'm actually looking forward to this now. This new team is DEFINITELY gonna be better than last year's. Last year I had a Cofagrigus, Conkeldurr, Chandelure, Haxorus, Klingklang and a Scrafty. Got me through to the 3rd round, but it was a bad choice bringing in Scrafty instead of Chandelure (got walled by Ferrothorn). Anyway, thanks dude :) if anyone else has any more helpful ideas, do share :D
 

Darkrai1117

Fear the night...
Bulbapedia:
Worry Seed temporarily changes the target's ability to Insomnia. It does not work on Pokémon with the Truant or Multitype ability.
With this effect, the target Pokémon cannot sleep and wakes up if already asleep.
Sorry, but the Prankster-Worry Seed strategy won't work. The only move that removes Truant is Gastro Acid, which isn't learnt by any Pranksters. Slow-Start, however, is removed by Worry Seed, so that may be an alternative route.
Bulbapedia:If Skill Swap or Gastro Acid is used on this Pokémon, its stats will immediately return to full power. However, the user of Skill Swap will have its Attack and Speed stats halved.
 

dildadonz

Well-Known Member
If you want an item for Hydriegon use either expert belt for aa 20% boost but there are some restrictions. Wise glasses give a solid 10% boost but this doesn't really make any crucial KO's. Replace fly and acrobatics as it is a physical move and you should focus on Hydriegon's SpAtk. You could even try Dragon gem and Draco Meteor or Focus Blast

For Cofagrigus I recommend you change its nature to Bold and use an ev spread that is:
252HP /252 Def

You are relying on it to take a hit from both Slaking and Regigigas.
 

Wzmrvo

Member
Darkrai1117, funny enough I was looking that up! I guess I might have to consider a really good Gastro Acid...

dildadonz, Draco Meteor is nice, but I really don't want to lower its SA. Focus Blast could be good, but I'm worried about its accuracy. Also, wouldn't a spread of 252HP/175Df/77SD be more re-assuring for Cofa? Since everyone knows by now that it's highly defensive and everyone would be attacking it's SD.
 

Redplay

The Strategist
If you want to be sure to have Slaking Aerial Ace your Cofagrigus, then you'll probably want to invest in some Speed EV's. Slaking (for me) aren't hard to take out, especially if there isn't and MAX defensive stats on it. Also, you seem to depend on your Slaking a little too much. Note that if you use two Aerial Aces on team-mates, it's two turns used to increase their chance of fainting that turn.
 

SilentOmen

Shadow of Prophecy
Sorry, but the Prankster-Worry Seed strategy won't work. The only move that removes Truant is Gastro Acid, which isn't learnt by any Pranksters. Slow-Start, however, is removed by Worry Seed, so that may be an alternative route.

Funny how Gamefreak goes out of it's way to make an otherwise viable pokemon absolutely useless. I've never used Slaking so I went the route of assuming it would work. Quel damage. At least some actually useful advice came out of my blunder... and I learned that Slaking is even more screwed over than I thought lol.
 

Wzmrvo

Member
Okay, had a re-think (I wanted to cross out the previous team idea in the edit mode by using the tool to have a line across words, but didn't know how, so sorry if I've broken a rule. I tried looking in the FAQ about thread editing but couldn't find a topic about crossing out words. Please link me to a thread explaining it and I will happily edit the thread neater). Anyway, came up with this:

Galvantula - Focus Sash
Unnerve
Timid
128HP/6D/128SA/252Sp
OR
Modest
128HP/6D/252SA/128Sp or 252HP/6D/128SA/128Sp
Gastro Acid
Hidden Power (Water)/Protect
Bug Buzz
Volt Switch

Lead suicide for Slaking, Focus Sash for after using Gastro Acid or to survive to do Gastro Acid just in case it's slower on the first turn, Volt Switch STAB and to switch with someone to save itself for later (hopefully). HP Water to take on Rock and Fire Pokemon and Bug Buzz for STAB. Unnerve just in case Galva survives enough for someone to not use their berry I suppose.

Slaking - Lum Berry
Truant
Adamant
252HP/128A/6D/64SD/64Sp
Bulk Up
Return
Earthquake
Night Slash

Bulking up while waiting for Galva to puke on him. Return STAB, Earthquake coverage, Night Slash to deal with ghosts and psychics. 64SD and 64Sp just to hopefully (with luck) survive against fast Focus Blasters.

Hydreigon - Wide Lens/Leftovers
Levitate
Modest
6HP/252SA/252Sp
Dragon Pulse
Dark Pulse/Surf
Fire Blast/Flamethrower
Focus Blast/Protect

Hitting hard and fast. Surf for coverage, but Dark Pulse for psychics and ghosts. Fire Blast for Bug/Steel/Grass/Ice, but Flamethrower for accuracy. Focus Blast for Dark/Steel/Rock/Norm or others, but Protect for annoyance.

Rotom-H - Life Orb/White Herb/Choice Specs
Levitate
Modest (Unfortunately the only ones I have access to is Lax, Careful and Gentle. I'd have to play Pearl in order to get a Modest, but with 2 badges there's no way I can complete the game in time for me to get one and train it)
252HP/64D/128SA/6SD/64Sp
Overheat
Thunder
Shadow Ball
Hidden Power (Grass)/Trick

Going in there straight for the attacks with HP Grass to save itself from Water (and Ground if beaten down from the air) and Thunder to hit more accurately in the Rain... OR I could predict moves (with luck) and be a TrickScarfer. Powered up Overheat incase its Sunny. Shadow Ball to hit something, even if it isn't a STAB.

Kingdra - Mystic Water
Swift Swim
Mild(+SA,-D)
128HP/128SA/6SD/252Sp or 128HP/252SA/6SD/128Sp
Surf
Dragon Pulse
Dragon Dance
Body Slam

Surf for good coverage, Dragon Pulse for STAB. In case there's any Water Absorbs or when its just not raining, a couple or one Dragon Dance(s) and then Body Slam for a status effect.

Regigigas - Leftovers
Adamant
252HP/128A/128SD/6Sp
Ice Punch
Drain Punch
Ancientpower/Zen Headbutt
Return

My alternative for Slaking. Drain Punch + Leftovers, good possible recovery. Ice Punch for Flying and Dragons and generally anything else besides Ice, Fire and Steel of course. Ancientpower for possible Stat rise (even if Slow Start is still in effect) or Zen Headbutt for fighters. Return for STAB.

OR instead of Regigigas...

Charizard - Leftovers
Blaze
Modest
128HP/6D/252SA/128Sp (or swap the HP and SA EVs)
Substitute
Sunny Day
Solarbeam/Focus Blast
Heat Wave

A throw off for opponents expecting a Gastroking. Helping out Rotom-H by subsetting a Sunny Day, then giving Rotom-H's Overheat one possible over-kill and one mostly damage thanks to Rotom's White Herb. Solarbeam for Water/Ground/Rock during the sun, but Focus Blast for Heatran as well as others except Psychic and Flying, but Sunny Heat Wave should be fine.

So basically, two themes in one team. Thoughts? :)
 

Darkrai1117

Fear the night...
Just a quick question, what is it about Slaking that makes it so much more desirable over Regigigas? Yes it has higher HP, and also has access to Pursuit, however Regi and Slaking have the same base Attack and Speed, and Regigigas has higher overall defences. For the strategy that you are attempting to pull off it would be easier to have a Whimsicott use Prankster Worry Seed on Regigigas first turn, have Tail Wind support, and, if you wanted to change your team around a bit, have Beat-Up support for any Justified users.
 

SilentOmen

Shadow of Prophecy
Just a quick question, what is it about Slaking that makes it so much more desirable over Regigigas? Yes it has higher HP, and also has access to Pursuit, however Regi and Slaking have the same base Attack and Speed, and Regigigas has higher overall defences. For the strategy that you are attempting to pull off it would be easier to have a Whimsicott use Prankster Worry Seed on Regigigas first turn, have Tail Wind support, and, if you wanted to change your team around a bit, have Beat-Up support for any Justified users.

To add more as well, Regi has access to Rock Polish and Drain Punch. That alone could make for a powerful sweeper once you also add to the fact it can benefit from the Worry Seed. It also has more special bulk than Slaking does, so it takes hits overall better than Slaking does.

My advice was only trying to help a team with Slaking because he seemed to be important to your team, going as far as placing aerial ace on it.
 

Wzmrvo

Member
Basically I was going with the whole HP-makes-great-defense idea that I learned from last year. As soon as I saw Slaking in terms of competition I thought it could have potential but it seems to me that Slaking, unfortunately, has holes no matter how I look at it. Regigigas seems more bulkier so I'll have to ditch the Slaking idea.

Also because I have doubts with Rotom-H now (since I won't be able to get the nature I was hoping for it), so I'm looking into another Pokemon that can benefit in the Sun in one strategy and help Regi in a another strategy.
 

Darkrai1117

Fear the night...
Just looking at the two teams that you have made, adding elements from each could prove to be effective. Leading with the Regigigas and Whimsicott can be a good set up lead, getting rid of Slow Start first turn. Then you could have the Physical SS Kingdra for Rain, and Chandelure for the Sun. Last two spots could be filled by Hydreigon for good overall coverage, and then I was looking at Gastrodon for extra Rain and Sandstorm protection, as well as it being a solid wall.
 

Wzmrvo

Member
Gastrodon... hmm, seems pretty useful. Slap on Earth Power to deal with Steels without hurting my team if I used Earthquake. Recover sounds good. Ice Beam to mess with Grass. Scald for a status.

Also capture my Adamant Regigigas in the early hours of this morning after an hour of capturing and checking the nature and characteristic, but not sure about it... it's gonna have 70 less HP and 80 less attack. Still useable d'you think? Or shall I ditch the whole Regi thing and find someone with more reliable stats to use for weather advantage?
 
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