1. We have moved to a new forum system. All your posts and data should have transferred over. Welcome, to the new Serebii Forums. Details here
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
    Dismiss Notice
  3. If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders
    Dismiss Notice

My skin is rough and I keep hurting people.

Discussion in 'Older Gen RMT' started by Yellow De Viridian Grove, Jan 4, 2013.

  1. Yellow De Viridian Grove

    Yellow De Viridian Grove Well-Known Member

    DrasticPhase and I made this team together. We both aren't the best at team building, so we tried to make a team together and it worked out pretty well.

    We decided we wanted to build a team around SubSalacChomp. He is a fearsome sweeper and is bulky enough to take some neutral hits. He can also force enough switches that getting the substitute up isn't too hard.

    We knew that steels would be an issue and that we needed Stealth Rock, so Heatran was added to help scare off steel types and provide them. Heatran also gave us some insurance against Sun teams and could spread burns so Chomp didn't have to take too much damage while setting up.
    ;445; ;485;

    We also wanted a counter for Breloom, Mamoswine, Dragonite, and Scizor as with their Strong Priority/Bulk they could take hits from Garchomp and KO back. We added Skarmory for this purpose. Skarmory can take hits from all these pokemon and Whilrwind them away if they try to set-up or set up Spikes and get another hazard down.
    ;445; ;485; ;227;

    Rain teams could be a big problem. Celebi was added. With Specs Leaf Storm, a lot of Pokemon on Rain teams run with fear. With her coverage in Earth Power and Hidden Power[Fire], she has pretty deadly coverage. She also adds some offensive presence to the team and can get rid of TTar, as Leaf Storm 2HKO even with the drop. She also helps gain momentum with U-Turn.
    ;445; ;485; ;227; ;251;

    Rotom-W was added next as to make a Volt-Turn core with Celebi. He also finished the F/W/G core and adds some much needed offensive presence. He can also revenge DNite without ESpeed and hits things really hard with Hydro Pump. He also helps with Skarm in rain.
    ;445; ;485; ;227; ;251; ;479-w;

    This was the most open spot. We debated with Terrakion, OTR Reuniculas, and Jirachi. Even though this made the team more Sun weak, Jirachi was added. He could spread Paralysis and pass bulky Wishes to our teammates.
    ;445; ;485; ;227; ;251; ;479-w; ;385;
    Garchomp @ Salac Berry
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Outrage
    - Swords Dance
    - Substitute

    SubSalac Garchomo is really awesome. Once it gets to +2/+1 not much can stop it. Its STAB move are very strong and give it pretty good coverage. Skarmory is the only real problem. He is first in the previewer to make my opponent think it is Scarfed, but I actually lead with something else. His speed stat of 102 is also very nice as he outspeeds +1 base 100s with the boost and outspeeds Landorus-I.

    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Lava Plume
    - Protect
    - Stealth Rock
    - Roar

    SDefTran is really handy on the team. With a base 130 SAtk, Lava Plume is going to do decent damage and be able to KO most steel types pretty quickly. Lava Plume also has chance to burn things, which helps weaken things so Chomp can sweep later. Protect is nice for scouting and to help combat choiced Pokemon. It also helps with gaining HP from Leftovers. Stealth Rock is the first hazard on the team and is handy for getting things weakened down and removing Sturdy/Sashes. Roar is mainly so Volcarona can't sweep the team and an unboosted Hp[Ground] doesn't OHKO. Roar can also make unfavorable switch-ins go away and take Hazard damage again when they switch back in.

    Skarmory @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Spikes
    - Roost
    - Brave Bird
    - Whirlwind

    Skarmory is mainly here to check most of the Physical attackers in the Metagame. He also completely walls SubToxic Gliscor. Spikes adds another Hazard that wears down grounded foes pretty quickly. While it doesn't affect everyone, 25% is still a lot of damage to the foe. Roost is healing. It can also get rid of the electric weakness at the cost of a fighting weakness, but most fighting types are faster. Brave Bird is there so Skarmory is not taunt bait. It also hits very hard and can OHKO Breloom and does pretty decent damage to everything else. Whirlwind is nice phazing that can spread hazard damage or remove something that boosted too high.

    Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Trick

    Being the first part of the Volt-Turn core and part two of the F/W/G core, Rotom-W is pretty key to the team. The scarf makes it the fastest thing on our team and outspeeds things like Tornadus-T, Starmie, and +1 DNite. Its strong STAB Hydro Pump, especially against an opposing Rain team, hits real hard and hits Ground-type switch-ins hard. Volt Switch is for gaining/keeping momentum and it hits Skarmory for Super Effective damage even in the rain. Hidden Power [Ice] is mainly for Dnite and other dragons, but can also be used as a safe move to hit Gliscor and Landorus-I/T. Trick is to mess with walls such as Ferrothorn and Blissey.

    Celebi @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - U-turn
    - Earth Power

    The final member of the Volt-Turn core and F/W/G core makes its appearance in the form of Celebi. With Choice Specs, this thing has deadly power with Leaf Storm. Celebi can 2HKO Sdef TTar with Leaf Storm, even with the drop. Hidden Power [Fire] is mainly for Scizor, who Celebi can lure out and KO. U-Turn doesn't hit things too hard, but it doesn't need to. It is mainly there for the switch advantage and scouting. Even with the Timid nature, it still does decent damage while l not taking away from her Bulk. Earth Power is mainly for Heatran.

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 238 SDef / 20 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Iron Head
    - Wish
    - Thunder Wave
    - Protect

    Jirachi was added last, but serves a very strong role in this team. He helps check Tornadus-T and is just extremely bulky. With TWave and Iron Head, he becomes the most annoying thing in the game with only Skarmory and Magnezone really stopping it. Wish is nice for healing the rest of the team and can heal the Pokemon without recovery on the team. With Wish+Protect, he has reliable recovery for himself and can stall out most Special threats.

    -The lack of Speed is really annoying sometimes.
    -TSpikes can end Chomp's sweep early, but doesn't really affect anyone else.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  2. DrasticPhase

    DrasticPhase Half ded

    Can I note something about Garchomp?
    We can opt to use Dragon Claw > Outrage. It can miss out some OHKO's but unable to switch after an Outrage. I do need to try it out first if its better. As that there is priority and there is much more of a bigger threat than the priority user if we lose a member too quickly.
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2013
  3. Shreyas

    Shreyas Well-Known Member

    On Rotom-W, I personally like to run 224 spd EVs and 240 SpA EVs. Letting him outspeed base 130s with a Scarf and 2HKO Latios with HP Ice after SR damage, and still have 44 EVs in SpD to have a high chance to take 2 LO Hurricanes from a LO neutral Tornadus-T (not counting rocks). ;D

    You really do want a Rapid Spinner in your team. If you are running Volt-Turn, you'll be switching a lot, and your Volt-Turn core takes 12.5% everytime from the rocks. And, maybe you want to consider a spin blocker? With spikes on your team, you don't want your opponent to blow it away after you set up 3 layers.

    Overall, I don't see any popping out flaws of the team. It looks pretty good, and I like it :)
    Hope I helped... somewhat? .-.
  4. Yellow De Viridian Grove

    Yellow De Viridian Grove Well-Known Member

    I'll try out the EV spread, but where would a spinner fit in on the team?
  5. Shreyas

    Shreyas Well-Known Member

    I was thinking swapping out Skarmory for Forretress. Forretress can still lay down spikes like Skarm, and at the same time Rapid Spin away opponent's hazards. For Fighting types and Gliscors, you still have Celebi that scare them and at the same time deal a huge chunk of Damage with Leaf Storm.
  6. azeem40

    azeem40 Pokemon is fun!

    You don't need a spinner on your team. As long as your team has good synergy it is fine.
  7. Yellow De Viridian Grove

    Yellow De Viridian Grove Well-Known Member

    I really hate Forretress, but I'll see what Drastic thinks. I don't think a spinner is needed too much. Yeah we are switching a lot but that should keep the pressure up enough that only SR, if anything, will get up.
  8. choinguoi83

    choinguoi83 Banned

    Tham gia choi game World of Warcraft mi?n phÃ* t?i
    http://www.player.vn/ d? tr?i nghi?m vÃ* t?n hu?ng game 3D s? 1 th? gi?i
  9. Klaus™

    Klaus™ Banned

    On Jirachi, try jesusfreak's ev spread of 252/236/20. It allows it to outspeed all non-scarved magnezones, so you can paraflinch it to death, as a non-choiced hp fire does like, 30-40% i think. and that 20 ev points wont really be noticeable when taken away from bulk.

    The one thing i see this team not doing well against is rain teams. sure, you have rotom-w, and celebi, but both are choiced. thats a problem. with good prediction, this team is swept by monsters like keldeo(cm or specs sets), tornadus-t(does huge damage to all but jirachi really, and if it gets fusehax, gg), and just all those STAB hydro pumps coming your way is bad.

    you can try a belted celebi set, to bluff specs. just u-turn out of t-tar, into a counter, like garchomp or jirachi. it'll also help when they think you might be stuck on, say earth power, then you just hit them with leaf storm at the right time.

    just some threats it seems right now, but overall the team looks good.
  10. Yellow De Viridian Grove

    Yellow De Viridian Grove Well-Known Member

    That spread seems pretty cool. I'll try it out. The 20 EVs don't seem like it would effect the bulk too much. DragMag is kinda a problem if they take down Skarm and outspeeding Magnezone and paralyzing it before it can do anything major would be nice.
  11. Klaus™

    Klaus™ Banned

    o yeah, with that ev spread, irrelevant now, but heres the bulk: according to jesusfreak(all credit of this spread goes to him) jirachi survives a scarfgene's flamethrower in sun. yeah. pretty BA.
  12. I can't really take full credit for that Jirachi EV spread. It's pretty much the standard set with speed EVs that are designed to beat a Pokemon that actually exists.

    As for the team, it's actually pretty solid overall. There aren't any obvious holes that I can see on the surface. However, one thing that I do notice is that you current have a soft spot particularly for Fighting types. Your team also doesn't like Rain-boosted Water attacks, since your main resists are offensive Pokemon that will be worn down fairly quickly. The main Pokemon I'm really worried about right now for your team are Terrakion, Keldeo, and to a lesser extent, Breloom. Terrakion currently outspeeds and 2HKOs or OHKOs everything on your team with a CB Close Combat besides Celebi, who is easily OHKO'd by X-Scissor and 2HKO'd by Stone Edge. Scarf Keldeo on opposing Rain teams is also very dangerous, since it 2HKOs everything on your team with Hydro Pump with Rocks down (even Celebi, about 96% of the time). SD Breloom can OHKO even Celebi with only 4 hits from a +2 Bullet Seed. It usually shouldn't be much of a problem for Celebi to come in on and KO, but you never know what might happen when its throwing around Spores whenever it hits the field.

    As you can see, your team relies on Celebi a lot to keep several threats in check, so I think you could at least buff up your defenses against these threats with one simple change: switching your current Celebi set for a physically defensive one.

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Psychic
    - U-turn
    - Recover
    - Thunder Wave / Giga Drain / filler

    This set is designed to outspeed neutral base 70s (namely Adamant Breloom and Modest Politoed) while also optimizing physical bulk. I recommend Psychic for your primary STAB so that you can hit the aforementioned threats as hard as possible. You can continue to use U-turn here to maintain your VoltTurn core, but with a bit more survivability on Celebi's end. Recover is obviously there to let Celebi heal itself and check these various threats more consistently throughout the game. The last slot is honestly filler. Thunder Wave support is always a good thing when your trying to help a sweeper set up. Notably, you might be able to catch Pokemon like Scarf Terrakion and Scarf Keldeo with Thunder Wave and prevent them from being able to outspeed and possibly KO your Garchomp at +1. However, if you miss the ability to threaten bulky Waters and such, Giga Drain can give you that back. It will also let you pick off weakened Terrakion and Keldeo while getting a bit of health back as well.

    This set will give you an effective defensive pivot, as well as help dramatically against those three Pokemon I mentioned. Terrakion has no chance of 2HKOing you from full health with Stone Edge, which lets you switch in on it more effectively. Heck, even a CB X-Scissor only OHKOs 62.5% of the time. Scarf Keldeo will also never 2HKO you with Hydro Pump even after Stealth Rock in the Rain. Be careful, as Specs Keldeo can still 2HKO, but you should have it checked fine between Celebi and Scarf Rotom-W. Moreover, Breloom can never OHKO you with a +2 Bullet Seed, which is a cool bonus.

    SD Lucario and SubDisable Gengar still look really dangerous to your team, but I can't really think of a quick solution at the moment. I guess having a more physically bulky Celebi could help against Lucario, since it can survive pretty much anything Lucario can throw at it while knocking off about half its health with Psychic or paralyzing it so that Heatran can finish it off before it can use Close Combat or something. Also, one way to help against SubDisable Gengar would be to run Fire Punch over Protect on Jirachi, which will give you two moves to hit Gengar with in case one gets Disabled. You won't need Protect alongside Wish to beat it since Gengar doesn't even break 30% with Shadow Ball, and this will also give you a weapon against Forretress, Scizor, and Ferrothorn. You might also want to give Ice Punch a try. I've used it successfully in the past alongside Thunder Wave since you're vulnerable to Ground types and Volt Absorb users if you don't run Body Slam. Many of those Pokemon (namely Gliscor, Landorus forms, Garchomp, and Thundurus-T) are heavily damaged and sometimes even 2HKO'd by Ice Punch, so it'd be something to try.

    I hope this helps! ^_^
  13. Yellow De Viridian Grove

    Yellow De Viridian Grove Well-Known Member

    I'll definitely try out the Celebii set and try Fire Punch on Jirachi as Ferrothorn can be problem without HP[Fire]. I'll update the OP to reflect the changes after I test Celebi tonight.

    DragMag is a real problem. Magnezone takes out Skarm and Jirachi without Fire Punch...
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013

Share This Page