My Team For the Upcoming VGC Tournament (Help Greatly Appreciated^__^)

[koolaidman594]

@ Chople Berry
Modest
252 HP/ 44 Defense/ 12 Sp. Attack/ 28 Sp. Defense/ 172 Speed
-Protect
-Substitute
-Earth Power
-Heat Wave

Basically, my counter for predicted fire attacks, as with Metagross, Scizor and Ferrthorn, I'm expecting a lot of fire blasts thrown my way. Protect is obvious, Earth Power is mainly for opposing Heatrans, and Heat Wave is just a nice STAB/Spread move Chople Berry is because of Cresselia's Skill Swap, alleviating Heatran's 4x weakness. The EV's are mainly to give it maximum punch without letting go of a lot of speed.

@ Occa Berry (Subject to Change)
Adamant
252 HP/ 252 Attack/ 6 Defense
-Earthquake
-Meteor Mash
-Ice Punch
-Bullet Punch

My favorite on the team. Metagross has just always had a special place in my heart since it came out in 3rd Gen. As a result, I felt the need to have it on my competitive team, that and it eats a lot of things I've encountered in random match up for breakfast. Earthquake is my general spread move, and has nice cohesion with the amount of protect and ground immunity on my team, Meteor Mash is my hard-hitting STAB attack, Ice Punch is for those pesky dragons, and I picked Bullet Punch>Protect, purely for the quick finishing blow. Occa Berry is a safety measure in case I really need to get the Ice Punch off, or I'm in a pinch with no Heatran. The EVs are for maximum punch and bulk, because let's face it, outside of priority, there isn't much that Metagross is going to out speed.

@ Leftovers
Sassy
252 HP/ 88 Defense/ 168 Sp. Defense
-Leech Seed
-Protect
-Power Whip
-Gyro Ball

My super stall pokemon for the team that i kept slightly offensive since it's a great check to rain teams in tandem with Gastrodon. I run absolute minimum speed on this bad boy to abuse opposing Trick Rooms and slap them in the face with Power Whip or Gyro Ball (depending on resistances and their speed). I'm going to go ahead and say leftovers does not need introduction for this set, as it aims to stall and recover. The EVs give me maximum bulk and even out my defenses in case sand isn't up. it does make sure i favor Sp. Defense by a little bit, for said rain.

@ Sitrus Berry
Bold
252 HP/ 104 Defense/ 148 Sp. Defense/ 6 Sp. Attack
-Psyshock
-Icy Wind
-Skill Swap
-Trick Room

My version of support Cresselia. Mainly just my wall and team support. Psyshock is my most offensive attack when need be, pulling a little surprise on any foes with higher Sp. Defense. Icy Wind is for team support, setting up sweep opportunities for Metagross, Heatran, and Scizor. Skill Swap is used to help out Heatran and Metagross (if need be) with their ground weaknesses. The nature and EVs maximize my bulk and even out my defenses to lessen prediction while favoring Sp. Defense by 1 point so as to prevent any beneficial Download. As you may be wonder why i have 6 Sp. Attack EVs, it is to make up for the HP Electric that was given to Cresselia before i obtained her.

@ Rindo Berry
Calm
252 HP/ 86 Defense/ 172 Sp. Defense
-Scald
-Earth Power
-Toxic
-Recover

The second part of my rain counter, and also the status inducer to be used alongside Ferrothorn. Scald is my best STAB move for the burn, and still gets pretty dangerous with Storm Drain boosts. Earth Power is used as my secondary STAB. Toxic is used for stalling purposes if i am having difficulty eliminating a threat. i used Recover>Protect purely as a means of recovery (obviously lol). The EVs and Nature grant me maximum bulk and a strong defensive presence, especially useful for stalling. The EV spread also allows Gastrodon to survive a Close Combat from Choice Band Terrakion and a Choice Band Outrage from Garchomp at full HP.

@ Life Orb
Adamant
252 HP/ 252 Attack/ 6 Speed
-Bug Bite
-Bullet Punch
-Protect
-Superpower

Scizor is the last pokemon on my team and is sort of filler, but at the same time is important. It is important because it allows me to counter Tyranitar and opposing Cresselia with ease. Bug Bite is the obvious STAB choice, reaching a silly strong 135 base power, and bullet punch is my revenge killing tactic, doing about 50-55% on many Tyranitar. Superpower is my final attacking option for those Tyranitars and steels that may give me trouble, that i just want gone. The EVs are similar to Metagross in that they give me max bulk and max punch, and the speed is just to tie anything investing just enough to out speed 0-speed Scizor.

 

[jstinftw!]

Looks pretty solid. I can't really find anything that would directly counter or give your team a problem. I guess the main thing is that your team is majorly lacking in Speed, which could turn into a problem. If they can pick off your team based on sheer speed, it'll be hard for you to take the momentum. I actually think you could add Trick Room here, especially since you have Cresselia. I would suggest taking off Moonlight for it, since Moonlight only does 25% health recovery when Rain, Sand, or Hail is up, and you will be pretty much facing weather teams all tournament long. The VGC Metagame is basically a beach right now, Sand and Rain taking up most of it, and the occasional Hail.

Also, I wouldn't really suggest running Toxic on Gastrodon. Something like Stockpile would probably better, as it allows it to take hits better, and then Recover it off and have them start again. +1 Defense and Special Defense make a load of a difference. Most players won't even worry about Poison, as it really doesn't bother anything. Switch, switch, and Toxic is dealing minimal damage. Plus most Double Battles don't last nearly long enough for Toxic to really be a deciding factor. Also, maybe try Rindo Berry > Leftovers? I recently started running Gastrodon as well, and I tell you, the amount of things running HP Grass nowadays is crazy.

Last note; you can't run Leftovers 3 times in VGC. There's an item clause. As I said, I'd go Rindo on Gastro. You can keep Lefties on either Ferro or Cress, but as I said earlier, you're not getting as much out of it due to the brevity of Double Battles. But it works, and after picking which needs Lefties most, give the other a Sitrus Berry. 25% healing is really nice.

That's pretty much all I have to say. Its a bit disconcerting that your run 3 Steel types, but they don't really share the same weaknesses, so it's workable. Have you tested it out yet? What problems have you faced?

 

[Shreyas]

Hey, justin what did you say about Toxic Gastrodons? XP

Like Justin said, 3 leftovers = ban. So, if you really want some more reliable recovery, Chesto Berry + Rest on Cresselia will work a lot better than moon light and leftovers. And, I suggest going with a type resisting berry on Gastrodon or Ferrothorn. I would also suggest to change up your Heatran's EV spread a little bit. I'm not quite sure what Max speed can really get you, and Heatrans really appreciate some bulk. I'll really quickly find my old Heatran spread, and update this post with it.

EDIT: Ok, so this is just a thought. I feel that this Heatran would work a lot nicer for your team, and will also help you take a little more of a TR approach, and can work pretty well outside of TR, too.

Heatran @ Chople Berry
Modest
Flash Fire
252 HP / 44 Def / 12 SpA / 28 SpD / 172 Spe
- Earth Power
- Heat Wave
- Substitute
- Protect
Ok, so this is the set I used in my regional, and it worked really well. Paired with Cresselia, it managed to really shift the opponent's focus to Heatran while behind a sub, making my job to take out the opponent a bit easier. The set is designed to outspeed Timid Latios after Icy Wind. It can take a Fight Gem Close Combat from Hitmontop, and live with enough HP to set up 1 substitute. The 28 SpD EVs are mainly to be able to set up 2 substitutes after taking a Dragon Gem Draco Meteor. I imagine that this will be paired up with Cress to skill swap abilities, so I really don't see any need to be running Hidden Power Ice. In reality, he can't get many KOs anyway since Garchomp will KO him before he can attack, and Cresselia does a good job of scaring him anyway.

 

[koolaidman594]

Looks pretty solid. I can't really find anything that would directly counter or give your team a problem. I guess the main thing is that your team is majorly lacking in Speed, which could turn into a problem. If they can pick off your team based on sheer speed, it'll be hard for you to take the momentum. I actually think you could add Trick Room here, especially since you have Cresselia. I would suggest taking off Moonlight for it, since Moonlight only does 25% health recovery when Rain, Sand, or Hail is up, and you will be pretty much facing weather teams all tournament long. The VGC Metagame is basically a beach right now, Sand and Rain taking up most of it, and the occasional Hail.

Also, I wouldn't really suggest running Toxic on Gastrodon. Something like Stockpile would probably better, as it allows it to take hits better, and then Recover it off and have them start again. +1 Defense and Special Defense make a load of a difference. Most players won't even worry about Poison, as it really doesn't bother anything. Switch, switch, and Toxic is dealing minimal damage. Plus most Double Battles don't last nearly long enough for Toxic to really be a deciding factor. Also, maybe try Rindo Berry > Leftovers? I recently started running Gastrodon as well, and I tell you, the amount of things running HP Grass nowadays is crazy.

Last note; you can't run Leftovers 3 times in VGC. There's an item clause. As I said, I'd go Rindo on Gastro. You can keep Lefties on either Ferro or Cress, but as I said earlier, you're not getting as much out of it due to the brevity of Double Battles. But it works, and after picking which needs Lefties most, give the other a Sitrus Berry. 25% healing is really nice.

That's pretty much all I have to say. Its a bit disconcerting that your run 3 Steel types, but they don't really share the same weaknesses, so it's workable. Have you tested it out yet? What problems have you faced?

oh really? i forgot that there was an item clause in VGC lol but i do like that idea for Gastrodon, stockpile could really be useful. as far as your concerns with the steels, what would you suggest i replace? and i havent tried this exact team out yet, but before i just had latios instead of scizor, and specially defensive choice tyrantar gave me a lot of problems

Hey, justin what did you say about Toxic Gastrodons? XP

Like Justin said, 3 leftovers = ban. So, if you really want some more reliable recovery, Chesto Berry + Rest on Cresselia will work a lot better than moon light and leftovers. And, I suggest going with a type resisting berry on Gastrodon or Ferrothorn. I would also suggest to change up your Heatran's EV spread a little bit. I'm not quite sure what Max speed can really get you, and Heatrans really appreciate some bulk. I'll really quickly find my old Heatran spread, and update this post with it.

EDIT: Ok, so this is just a thought. I feel that this Heatran would work a lot nicer for your team, and will also help you take a little more of a TR approach, and can work pretty well outside of TR, too.

Heatran @ Chople Berry
Modest
Flash Fire
252 HP / 44 Def / 12 SpA / 28 SpD / 172 Spe
- Earth Power
- Heat Wave
- Substitute
- Protect
Ok, so this is the set I used in my regional, and it worked really well. Paired with Cresselia, it managed to really shift the opponent's focus to Heatran while behind a sub, making my job to take out the opponent a bit easier. The set is designed to outspeed Timid Latios after Icy Wind. It can take a Fight Gem Close Combat from Hitmontop, and live with enough HP to set up 1 substitute. The 28 SpD EVs are mainly to be able to set up 2 substitutes after taking a Dragon Gem Draco Meteor. I imagine that this will be paired up with Cress to skill swap abilities, so I really don't see any need to be running Hidden Power Ice. In reality, he can't get many KOs anyway since Garchomp will KO him before he can attack, and Cresselia does a good job of scaring him anyway.

i do like that set, and for my EVs on heatran i kind of just followed smogon lol as far as rest on cresselia, it really suffers from 4 moveslot syndrome, considering i really want psyshock and icy wind for a slightly offensive option as well as skill swap since it plays a big role on this team, so then it's down to moonlight/trick room/rest and i think to make up for my teams lack of outright speed, trick room might be the best option? maybe?

 

[Chingchar]

Your team looks pretty solid the only problem is you have a huge weakness to fire and because there are a lot of heatrans and infernapes about that could be a problem for you with Gastrodon run muddy water I used to run scald but then I found that muddy water was much better also run WoW (Will-o-Wisp) over substitute on Heatran as it can be really helpfu against metagross and Garchomp and other physical attackers. Not much else to say you seem to know what you're doing so good luck!

 

[Victory★Star★]

Very Nice team! i am wondering if Protect shouldnt be there because mine has Swords Dance making it capable if KO'ing anything in its way. Also Gastrodon can be replaced by something much better such as Cloyster, Carracosta, another powerhouse

 

[koolaidman594]

Your team looks pretty solid the only problem is you have a huge weakness to fire and because there are a lot of heatrans and infernapes about that could be a problem for you with Gastrodon run muddy water I used to run scald but then I found that muddy water was much better also run WoW (Will-o-Wisp) over substitute on Heatran as it can be really helpfu against metagross and Garchomp and other physical attackers. Not much else to say you seem to know what you're doing so good luck!

i considered muddy water, but the accuracy just made me a little concerned, how often do you miss with it? and im unsure how i feel about wow, what does everyone think?

Very Nice team! i am wondering if Protect shouldnt be there because mine has Swords Dance making it capable if KO'ing anything in its way. Also Gastrodon can be replaced by something much better such as Cloyster, Carracosta, another powerhouse

protect is there for EQ and lets say my opponent has an infernape and a cresselia out, and i have metagross and scizor, theyre ordinarily going to target scizor for the quick KO to protect cress, so scizor protects and metagross EQs for an easy ko or close to it that can just be finished with a bullet punch. and gastrodon is just to abuse my opponents rain teams and try to stop them in their tracks.

 

[T-Bolt]

i considered muddy water, but the accuracy just made me a little concerned, how often do you miss with it? and im unsure how i feel about wow, what does everyone think?

Yup, i've used muddy water and it often misses on one of the two pokemon. IMO its best to use moves with good accuracy in doubles, where one mistake can cost you the game.

About WoW, I'm not sure if it would be useful on Heatran. There are a lot of pokemon that outspeed it, and Garchomp would KO with EQ anyway.

And i've noticed that you have 4 steel types on your team. Though they complement each other pretty well, you may have some coverage issues.

Sorry for the short rate, I've got an exam the day after tomorrow and i don't have a lot of free time.

 

[koolaidman594]

Yup, i've used muddy water and it often misses on one of the two pokemon. IMO its best to use moves with good accuracy in doubles, where one mistake can cost you the game.

About WoW, I'm not sure if it would be useful on Heatran. There are a lot of pokemon that outspeed it, and Garchomp would KO with EQ anyway.

And i've noticed that you have 4 steel types on your team. Though they complement each other pretty well, you may have some coverage issues.

Sorry for the short rate, I've got an exam the day after tomorrow and i don't have a lot of free time.

Its ok i appreciate your feedback

 

[koolaidman594]

Changes made! still unsure about getting rid of toxic on Gastrodon, and having mixed feelings about losing recovery on Cresselia lol. New rates anyone?

 

[jstinftw!]

Have you tested the team out? If you did, did you run into any problems? If not, test it out! xD Pokemon Showdown and Pokemon Online are great places to see if your team is overall set.

As for the Steel problem, it really is just Fire you're particularly worried about. I feel the team could work if you're good a prediction and switches, but if not, you might want to replace it. Seeing as your team is slow already, you don't inherently need Ferro to counter Trick Room. As for Rain, pretty much everyone except Heatran and Scizor (hey look, that still leaves you with FOUR Pokemon) doesn't mind Rain. Reverse the Speed creep with Trick Room Cresselia and viola. Swift Swim what?

I'd say you should probably consider a good Dragon type. I'd say Hydreigon, personally, because it fits well with the slowness of your team, being able to outspeed certain threats outside of Trick Room, while benefiting from Trick Room when certain Pokemon that threaten it are faster. Special Salamence is also a good pick, so that you don't entirely need to rely on Trick Room, plus having some Intimidate support. Dragon types are like nukes.

However, a Fighting type could also come in handy, as their sheer power and coverage are really helpful. I've been testing out Guts Conkeldurr with Ice Gem Ice Punch recently, and I've had really good result. Maybe this could help your team out a bit. Here's the set I run (since the standard Conkeldurr set just doesn't cut):

Conkeldurr @ Ice Gem
Trait: Guts
EVs: 144 HP / 204 Atk / 160 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Wide Guard
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Rock Slide

Wide Guard is great for if you're facing opponents that like to Heat Wave your Scizor or Metagross, Surf/Muddy Water you on Rain teams, Explosion Metagross which is seeing a lot more play recently, all while also allowing you to protect yourself from your own teammate's Earthquake. Ice Gem Ice Punch is great at getting some important OHKOs on things that would normally survive an Ice Punch (Yache Berry Garchomp an example). Rock Slide because no one like Volcarona, or the Kamis.

That's pretty much all I have for you though until you've tested the team. Toxic is interesting, and obviously has its niches, but I don't know about it consistency is all. Stockpile is still my say.

 

[koolaidman594]

Have you tested the team out? If you did, did you run into any problems? If not, test it out! xD Pokemon Showdown and Pokemon Online are great places to see if your team is overall set.

i usually do RMU for testing, and i have run into a problem with fires, which was not unexpected but still a letdown, i was considering replacing Scizor with band/scarf Terrakion for this exact reason

 

[joej m]

i see something very strange in this team...
why do you have so many steel pokemon?
steel pokemon work best at tanking foes. i think all you need is ferrothorn, as a rain check. then you can get volcarona in there as more speed, and gets same coverage as scizor and heatran. then something of the lines of hitmnotop to give your team intimidate support, and make it easier to set off a first turn icy wind or trick room to help you out. also, you dont need metagross that much., especially withEQ because you have gastrodon.
i would run an offensive gastrodon set also.

Gastrodon-Ea (Gastrodon-East) (M) @ Earth Gem
Trait: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 100 SAtk / 136 SDef
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Scald / Muddy Water
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Protect / Recover

read the article here on it: http://nuggetbridge.com/articles/gastrodon-for-dummies/
but keep gastro, because it and ferrothorn will give rain a headache, in and out of TR.
as a replacement for metagross i dont know...
maybe a choice scarf tyranitar?
252 attack/252 speed jolly nature
rock slide
fire punch
crunch
superpower/earthquake

if you want hitmontop use this btw:
164 hp/252 attack/92 speed @ fighting gem
close combat, sucker punch, fake out, detect.
great pokemon right here. full out offensive pressure and is faster than most hitmontops, letting you fake out their hitmontop so you can setup or KO.

sorry for all these notes being so disorganized xD

 

[jstinftw!]

i usually do RMU for testing, and i have run into a problem with fires, which was not unexpected but still a letdown, i was considering replacing Scizor with band/scarf Terrakion for this exact reason

I like this idea too, but I don't think you really need a Band or Scarf, as he hits hard enough and he is pretty fast. Like only Latios outspeeds it, realistically. And if that's a problem by all means haha.

i see something very strange in this team...
why do you have so many steel pokemon?
steel pokemon work best at tanking foes. i think all you need is ferrothorn, as a rain check. then you can get volcarona in there as more speed, and gets same coverage as scizor and heatran. then something of the lines of hitmnotop to give your team intimidate support, and make it easier to set off a first turn icy wind or trick room to help you out. also, you dont need metagross that much., especially withEQ because you have gastrodon.
i would run an offensive gastrodon set also.

Gastrodon-Ea (Gastrodon-East) (M) @ Earth Gem
Trait: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 100 SAtk / 136 SDef
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Scald / Muddy Water
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Protect / Recover

read the article here on it: http://nuggetbridge.com/articles/gastrodon-for-dummies/
but keep gastro, because it and ferrothorn will give rain a headache, in and out of TR.
as a replacement for metagross i dont know...
maybe a choice scarf tyranitar?
252 attack/252 speed jolly nature
rock slide
fire punch
crunch
superpower/earthquake

if you want hitmontop use this btw:
164 hp/252 attack/92 speed @ fighting gem
close combat, sucker punch, fake out, detect.
great pokemon right here. full out offensive pressure and is faster than most hitmontops, letting you fake out their hitmontop so you can setup or KO.

sorry for all these notes being so disorganized xD

I like the T-tar idea, but i don't think TopMoth is the answer. xD

 

[joej m]

I like this idea too, but I don't think you really need a Band or Scarf, as he hits hard enough and he is pretty fast. Like only Latios outspeeds it, realistically. And if that's a problem by all means haha.



I like the T-tar idea, but i don't think TopMoth is the answer. xD

well, i didn't say top moth, i just said possibly hitmontop.
fake out support would really help this team because it could icy wind, or TR depending on the time. scrafty could also work, and so could hariyama, because they are all good pokemon in themselves.
but he could get the exact same coverage with one pokemon instead of two, which would leave an open spot for more support or offense, i.e. strong fake out pokemon.

 

[koolaidman594]

i wanted to add top, i really did lol but im having issues getting one with sucker punch lol and i do like the idea of volcarona, but my heatran's sub has actually helped a huge amount and heatran is there to absorb fire attacks, whereas volcarona is really fragile in that aspect since fire is neutral, mainly, idk, i have mixed feelings about it because heatran has been a staple since i started building the team

EDIT:im considering changing scizor to a dark gem hydreigon, although that would leave me very fighting-weak(heatran, ferrothorn, and hydreigon) any opinions?

 

[jstinftw!]

EDIT:im considering changing scizor to a dark gem hydreigon, although that would leave me very fighting-weak(heatran, ferrothorn, and hydreigon) any opinions?

I'm not liking that particular call. Originally, I thought it'd be a good Pokemon on the team, but going over everything, Hydreigon would add so much redundancy to the team. It's staple moves are Draco Meteor, Dragon Pulse, Fire Blast/Flamethrower/Heat Wave, Earth Power, Dark Pulse and Protect. So besides its STABs, it doesn't really add much more to the team, and is an extra fighting weakness as opposed to having a safe-ish switch in with Scizor. I would rather have joj m's Volcarona suggestion for that instead; you keep a reliable way of attacking Cresselia, you don't add a Fighting weakness, and instead, create a Fighting resist AND a possible burn chance to cripple their physical attacker, while still having that Fire move that Hydreigon was most likely going to have. It works well with the Steel types as well, as the opponent would think twice about just Rock Sliding your team, for fear that you'd switch out Volcarona for a Steel type, making their turn a bit useless.

 

[Shreyas]

I actually like the idea of a Scarf Tyranitar on your team. It really gives you another Pokemon to take on Fire types aside from Heatran, it can disrupt rain, and your team doesn't really mind the sand as much. And, you still don't have a Rock or a Dark attack anywhere on there. So, give it a shot?

 

[jstinftw!]

I actually like the idea of a Scarf Tyranitar on your team. It really gives you another Pokemon to take on Fire types aside from Heatran, it can disrupt rain, and your team doesn't really mind the sand as much. And, you still don't have a Rock or a Dark attack anywhere on there. So, give it a shot?

I do like the Tyranitar suggestion too.

 

[koolaidman594]

Ok, so volcarona instead of heatran and scizor and thentack on scarf tar?